[DTB] Sneak Attack

Congratz to your win Fenrus!

and thanks for explaining what you was boarding against your matchups.

But I do still have a few questions about your deck and your Sideboard.

1) I really don´t understand why you run Daze in your deck. With SnT and Sneak i can´t imagine that you want to bounce your lands in the first few turns.
Then you cold only need it, when you are going off. Is Daze such a good counter when you are playing some of the combo parts? Don´t your enemys have that 1 mana to support their force or pierce?

2) Maybe i am the only player hat hates to play against Goblins (and thats the reason why i run 3 pyroclasm in sb), but what are you doing against that fast aggro decks, where everything with snt could be bounced with stringscrourger. It seems like you could only bring +2 stifle and +2 Breach. Is that enough to win?

Here is my current maindeck list:

4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Intuition
1 Preordain

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Flusterstorm

4 Lotus Petal

3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Mountain

Is it worth running Spell Pierce over Daze? It requires you to have more mana open, but it's often more effective than Daze. I hate that Flusterstorm can't counter annoying permanents, but it's pretty good in counter wars.

I'll probably drop the Preordain for a Repeal, but I like the second Intuition. Do you guys think the bounce is more important or the tutoring?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darksteel

Is it worth running Spell Pierce over Daze? It requires you to have more mana open, but it's often more effective than Daze. I hate that Flusterstorm can't counter annoying permanents, but it's pretty good in counter wars.

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As for me personal i like to have only free protection spells in the mainboard. The numbers of protection depends on if i play Sneak or Omniscience plan. For Sneak i run 4 FoW, 4 Daze, 2 Misdirection. This way i can have protection and go of as early as turn 2 with a good hand. My main concern is discard and counter effects. So my sideboard contains both Divert (better when on the play ofcourse) and Flusterstorm, where Flusterstorm also has a role against storm. Sometimes i also pack Stifle/Trickbind vs EtB effects of a Show and Tell. However the last one is more important in the Omniscience plan. Also Karakas can be an issue. Still i havent figure out how to deal with that one, put Pithing Needle comes closest to my liking as it can also be used to shut down stuff like Jace, top, Liliana, or even a desthrite shaman as that can slow down a BUG list just enough to combo out. Also i dropped REB and Pyroblast from the side as i found that Wasteland is often run in blue decks. Not wanting to risk losing a Volcanic Island that i need later for Burning Wish to combo often becomes a dead card, where a Divert, Flusterstorm, Spell Pierce, Stifle etc is not.

At Kryptor:

Maindecking Daze enables 2 things. 1 you can protect a turn 2 Show and Tell or Sneak (especially when on the play game 1) and if you return a Volcanic Island that way you can protect it from a possible Wasteland. This all is more important to me than trying to fight opponents play's. It protects fast combo's and i dont care about anything the opponent is playing, unless it's faster than me or can stop my combo.
2. In game 2 and 3 the opponent will always try to play around Daze (if they saw you play it), you can make use of that.

Daze doesn't protect your Volcanic Island from Wasteland, because Wasteland is not a spell and uses an activated ability. There must be a spell on the stack that the Daze can target before you can cast it. A good player will activate Wasteland when the stack is empty of spells. I don't like Daze in this deck because getting set back a turn hurts this deck a lot. The kill spells in this deck cost three and four mana (five really for Sneak Attack if you want to activate it immediately). Daze works best in decks that are mostly full of one-drops and two-drops, such as RUG Delver or Reanimator.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justin

Daze doesn't protect your Volcanic Island from Wasteland, because Wasteland is not a spell and uses an activated ability. There must be a spell on the stack that the Daze can target before you can cast it. A good player will activate Wasteland when the stack is empty of spells. I don't like Daze in this deck because getting set back a turn hurts this deck a lot. The kill spells in this deck cost three and four mana (five really for Sneak Attack if you want to activate it immediately). Daze works best in decks that are mostly full of one-drops and two-drops, such as RUG Delver or Reanimator.

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They Waste, you Brainstorm, hold priority, Daze your Brainstorm, and pay with another land. It's very attenuated and requires a very specific circumstance, but you can use Daze as a shitty Stifle by paying to not counter your own spell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justin

Daze doesn't protect your Volcanic Island from Wasteland, because Wasteland is not a spell and uses an activated ability. There must be a spell on the stack that the Daze can target before you can cast it. A good player will activate Wasteland when the stack is empty of spells. I don't like Daze in this deck because getting set back a turn hurts this deck a lot. The kill spells in this deck cost three and four mana (five really for Sneak Attack if you want to activate it immediately). Daze works best in decks that are mostly full of one-drops and two-drops, such as RUG Delver or Reanimator.

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Daze does protect as a pseudo effect. Assuming you drop sneak requiring you to use the volcanic island for S&T or Sneak. So its tapped. They response with whatever to try to stop the S&T/Sneak. You response with Daze returning the Volanic Island. You pass the turn, because the situation requires you to, with the volcanic island (your only red source at that time) in hand instead off tapped on the battlefield open for a Wasteland. So that i mean with protection from a possible Wasteland.
Besides that, how is Daze actually slowing you down. YOu don't play it to counter crap, only stuff that really is gonna stop you from combo.

So I have a major tourney coming up, but testing has shown that I am very weak to BUG (in both forms) with my current sideboard. This is a UK meta, which means anything from Lands, to Mono-W Stax to Burn turning up, as we as other competitive decks. I was hoping you guys could give me some pointers to improve it, with the BUG matchup in mind? Here's the current SB:

4 Defence Grid
2 Wipeaway
2 Submerge
2 Pyroclasm
2 Through the Breach
3 Surgical Extraction/Grafdiggers Cage

I was thinking of removing 1 Defence Grid, 2 Wipeaway for 3 Blood Moon, and I was also wondering about dropping the GY hate and Breaches for Leylines of Sanctity.

Suggestions?

Thanks

Dave

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yankeedave

So I have a major tourney coming up

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Hi. How huge is it exactly ? It's possible a huge tournament in London could be interesting. Do you have a link to the tournament announcement please ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lejay

Hi. How huge is it exactly ? It's possible a huge tournament in London could be interesting. Do you have a link to the tournament announcement please ?

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http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...329#post694329

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yankeedave

So I have a major tourney coming up, but testing has shown that I am very weak to BUG (in both forms) with my current sideboard. This is a UK meta, which means anything from Lands, to Mono-W Stax to Burn turning up, as we as other competitive decks. I was hoping you guys could give me some pointers to improve it, with the BUG matchup in mind? Here's the current SB:

4 Defence Grid
2 Wipeaway
2 Submerge
2 Pyroclasm
2 Through the Breach
3 Surgical Extraction/Grafdiggers Cage

I was thinking of removing 1 Defence Grid, 2 Wipeaway for 3 Blood Moon, and I was also wondering about dropping the GY hate and Breaches for Leylines of Sanctity.

Suggestions?

Thanks

Dave

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Personally I dislike Defense Grid immensely. I run a pyro/reb/overmaster-split instead and find that useful enough. Have you looked at cards like Divert and Misdirection? They should take care of your problems enough to deal with the discard spells atleast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yankeedave

So I have a major tourney coming up, but testing has shown that I am very weak to BUG (in both forms) with my current sideboard. This is a UK meta, which means anything from Lands, to Mono-W Stax to Burn turning up, as we as other competitive decks. I was hoping you guys could give me some pointers to improve it, with the BUG matchup in mind? Here's the current SB:

4 Defence Grid
2 Wipeaway
2 Submerge
2 Pyroclasm
2 Through the Breach
3 Surgical Extraction/Grafdiggers Cage

I was thinking of removing 1 Defence Grid, 2 Wipeaway for 3 Blood Moon, and I was also wondering about dropping the GY hate and Breaches for Leylines of Sanctity.

Suggestions?

Thanks

Dave

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What does your mainboard look like? I dislike defense grid. Blasts at are better in my opinion, deal with Vendilion clique and counterspells and allows you to interact with them and counter things like hymn and counterbalance and humility. Blood moon wins games but is risky. Hopefully they don't play around it game two but if they see it then in game three they can go turn one swamp/forest death rite shaman and it is basically a dead card.... Divert is amazing but things like spell pierce are really helpful to negate the discard and Lillies. I go with the though the breach plan because of Lillies and how slow their deck is in general. Tbh I think not playing daze is very helpful in winning that matchup.

In answer to the BUG mu question, I birng in 3 Blood Moon and 2 Divert. Blood moon can auto win games and be a t1 play on the draw. I don't play daze at all with three spell pierce in those slots. Don't go off until you have to. I've played that mu a lot and they are tough, but adding 5 must counters to your deck goes a long way towards helping snt resolve. Good luck in London!

Now the meta it's without random aggro and tribal, with bug, miracle and esper blade more some combo.

I play this side:

3 Defense Grid (vs rug/canadian and deck with post die strategy to increasing counter' s count)
4 Leyline of Sanctity (vs black deck and combo)
3 Boseiju, Who Shelters All (miracle/esper , blue deck without waste)
2 Wipe Away
3 Grafdigger's Cage

It's a good actual side for me.:smile:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coma

Now the meta it's without random aggro and tribal, with bug, miracle and esper blade more some combo.

I play this side:

3 Defense Grid (vs rug/canadian and deck with post die strategy to increasing counter' s count)
4 Leyline of Sanctity (vs black deck and combo)
3 Boseiju, Who Shelters All (miracle/esper , blue deck without waste)
2 Wipe Away
3 Grafdigger's Cage

It's a good actual side for me.:smile:

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I can agree with this sideboard. I would also consider Blood Moon instead of Boseiju, since it shuts down a lot of decks. Defense Grid is inadequate vs UB/x decks due to their discard replacing most of the hard counters, but that is where Leyline shines. I would also make sure to play 3 Misdirection maindeck again, as that helps in all games against those same decks too.

In this period if you play 3x misd it's a logical good idea, but I have some doubts on the moon.
Moon is good like a surprise for bug ,because if you win G1 in G2 he probably side out decay for no our target and you can win G2, but if you lose G1 , win G2 with moon , I side out moon in G3 for his decay .
More over a good pilot to bug that wait a moon remains with 1 mana and shaman open for decay.:confused:

Other thoughts it's , if you play vs aggro version of bug with delver .
You can died also after your lock , for fast creature and the 1 mana that shaman gives him to cast some pierce or other.

Those are my doubts.:smile:

I've had a lot of positive experiences using Flusterstorm main instead of Misdirection. Yes, it slows us down a turn but it's so much better than Spell Pierce at protecting your spells it's not even funny. Also synergizes well when you're holding a Lotus Petal to go off on that same turn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

I've had a lot of positive experiences using Flusterstorm main instead of Misdirection. Yes, it slows us down a turn but it's so much better than Spell Pierce at protecting your spells it's not even funny. Also synergizes well when you're holding a Lotus Petal to go off on that same turn.

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Yes Flusterstorm is great, but the "free counterspells suite" is much better. 4 Force of Will, 4 Daze, 3 Misdirection.

I've never been a fan of Daze simply because we don't usually go off super quickly so it's effectiveness is usually lessened by opponents typically having mana available.

PV has posted his report of GP Denver, playing Sneak and Show: http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...ing-in-denver/

Good read from PV. I took sneak&show to Denver as well, but ended up in 100th, not as strong as I would have liked, but still it was a great two day event and very fun. I was running:

Lands-19-
Fetch X6
Sol lands X5
Volcanic Island X4
Island X3
Mountain X1

Artifacts-4-
Lotus Petal X4

Red-4-
Sneak Attack X4

Creatures-8-
Griselbrand X4
Emrakul X4

Blue-25-
Show and Tell X4
Force of Will X4
Brainstorm X4
Ponder X4
Preordain X2
Repeal X2
Flustestorm X2
Spelll Pierce X2
Misdirection X1

Sideboard-15-
Leylline of Sanctity X4
Flustertsorm X2
Spell Pierce X1
Tormod's Cryptt X3
Through the Breach X2
Something Else X3


I can''t remember the full sb, and it sucked, so I guess that's that. had no byes for this one, so PLAYED ALL THE ROUNDS!!! I played legit decks the whole day, so no wierd stuff from that which kind of disappointed playing an unfair combo deck you'd like to play something random.

Day 1

Round 1
Affinity: Won 2-1, mulled to five g1, it's a tough mu for machine aggro.

Round 2
Omnitel: Won 2-0. He SnT's first g1 and I put in Griselbrand to his Omniscience. I drew 14 cards and countered everything he tried. If he had Emrakul I die, but fortunately for me he didn't. G2 we fought over a sneak attack and I eventually got one into play.

Round 3
RUG: Won 2-0. You can just SnT anything and win. No hot starts, lost the first counter war won the second. Griselbrannd g1 and Emrakul g2.

Round 4
RUG: Won 2-0. Weird g1, I knew he had stifle, and I played a land heavy hand. He never saw any pressure and eventually I made too many land drops for Stifle to matter. You can't stifle the 15 in the air. It was a grindy series which I wasn't expecting.

Round 5
BUG: Lost 0-2. This is bad news bears and hand disrupt combined with counter magic is pretty awful.

Round 6
Berzerk Nivmagus: 0-2. Too much counter magic and I played Flusterstormm very poorly. Not a deck that I was at all prepared for.

Round 7
Berzerk Infect: Won 2-0. Leaving the life total completely intact vs Griselbrand is pretty nice. The player was new and should have won g2 but for a misplay on his Karakas, very nice guy.

Round 8
Nic Fit Won 2-1. G1 I mull to 5 and get a sneak attack into play vs his thragtusk. I emrakul his board and then watch the thragtuskk token go ALL THE WAY! Fuck me. Games 2/3 were more to plan comboing out with both monsters in play.

Day 2

Round 9
Jund Won 2-0. The discard gets you down and then I was able to rebuild and go off. Had a strong t2 in g2 that won it.

Round 10
Esper Blade Lost 0-2. I got deck checked for the third fucking tme in round 9 and couldn't shuffle out of it, mullled to five both games, very frustrating as I think you can win this one.

Round 11
BUG Lost 0-2. This mu needs to be addressed.

Round 12
Infect Won 2-0. Kind of a bread/butter mu, they aren't well pointed to dealing with combo and having full life guaranteed with Griselbrand is bad news.

Round 13
Burn Lost 1-2. And I picked up a warning for tapping an Ancient Tomb that should have killed me. My opponent was more prepared for the mu than I was bringing in e-bridge for the win.

Round 14
Affinity Win2-1. Ended up playing a friend from my local to end the event, nice relaxing way to call it a day.

Well run event and four gold stars for zero assholes in 14 rounds. Everyone I played was cool. One series or two from the money, UGHHH!! Oh well, there will be a next time.

The deck itself played very well. I think the repeals main need to be some kind of bounce, not sure what is best, but something. The sideboard sucked horribly. I think some real work needs to be done there. As for the meta, I think the deck is decently positioned right now. I hope that Jund that becomes even better as that carves more room for us. RUG is totally beatable as any thing from SnT pretty much wins. I think its 50/50. BUG is the only real issue this deck is facing right now. We can compete with Miracles and Esper, but BUG has everything for us with change. I think maybe 3 Divert in the board? Something special for them. Need more practice, but right now I feel like that's the mu t focus on. also, i should have had 2 MisD main and Pierces over fluster. Hitting PW's is really relevant right now and the format is slow enough that you don't need daze. Anyway, thats all for now,, great weekend!
cheers
defector