Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Richard Cheese
All these great reports, making me want to start running this bad boy again. FWIW, I've stuck to the 13 land/2 mox configuration and have been pretty happy with that when going off. I don't feel like I get screwed any harder than when running 14 lands, although I haven't been keeping stats so I could be completely talking out of my ass. Regardless, congrats to all of you guys for the great finishes.
I think that particular mana configuration works for you because you're better with the deck than I am. You know when to keep and when to mull, and when you mull, you know what to keep again. I'm still figuring that out.
I think that makes a huge difference in how the deck runs. For now, with my level of experience with it, I keep finding myself in situations where I don't have enough land in my opening hand or first mulligan to play the deck to a win.
You'll note I've gone to 15 land(!), a Mox Diamond, and a Chrome Mox. I LOVE the Diamond. So far in test runs I am not forced to mulligan, and I'm seeing turn 2 kills regularly. I'll test it tonight at the tournament. Hopefully we'll have 5 rounds so I can give a good accounting. We never cut to top 8 (which is horrible because the top two always split and ruin everyone else's changes of winning).
Dave
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
My impression about the mana base is that against metagame without a saturation of Wastelands and Stifle, 13 lands would e sufficient (albeit, on the lighter side). The decision to bump up to 14 was to combat potential Wastelands, Dazes, and Stifles.
In construction, it's intended to more or less mirror TES from a mana base/accelerants stand point. This is purposefully done to obtain a higher percentage of Turn 1 & 2 kills. Mulligan decisions are a prerequisite requirement of the early game kills. (well, and being lucky to have Entomb and Dark Ritual :P)
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Koby
]Mulligan decisions are a prerequisite requirement of the early game kills. (well, and being lucky to have Entomb and Dark Ritual :P)
Yes! I agree. Also, Swamp/Entomb/Dark Rit/Goryo's in the opening hand is awesome...
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
I do however, concede that most configurations will work upto 15 lands. They trade the explosive/glass cannon approach for more consistent mana. I suspect, but have not been able to empirical test, that the higher land counts will have a slightly higher fizzle rate due to dead draws. If the Chrome Mox/Lotus Petal count is not reduced, I don't think it will make much of an impact if you draw <land> or <Ponder>; so maybe I'm just bullshitting. Something to think about...
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
If we are running 15 lands, I like the mox diamond idea. At 14, I think I would prefer a second chrome mox, especially if we are playing 2 LDV. But the land configuration as is has worked very well for me.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DavidHernandez
I think that particular mana configuration works for you because you're better with the deck than I am.
That is the funniest thing I've read all week! I'm a terrible combo player because I tend to have zero patience and just go all in...maybe that's why 13 lands works out for me. Also I still run one basic Island. I just felt like I wasn't having as much trouble going off as I was hitting Tendrils mana afterwards. Also, more often than not I've already played my land for the turn by the time I get Grizzlebees in play, so every land drawn off him is garbage. It seems to me that a lot of combo guys loathe Chrome Mox, but it really hasn't bothered me that much.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Richard Cheese
That is the funniest thing I've read all week! I'm a terrible combo player because I tend to have zero patience and just go all in...maybe that's why 13 lands works out for me. Also I still run one basic Island. I just felt like I wasn't having as much trouble going off as I was hitting Tendrils mana afterwards. Also, more often than not I've already played my land for the turn by the time I get Grizzlebees in play, so every land drawn off him is garbage. It seems to me that a lot of combo guys loathe Chrome Mox, but it really hasn't bothered me that much.
No, seriously, I think I use extra lands as a crutch because I don't mulligan properly. Or I don't keep hands that I should...because I don't recognize there's a winning combo coming.
Last night I was VERY happy with my deck build, but I lost two matches and took myself out of the running because I'm stupid. I had Daze in hand and a tapped Island. Opponent taps out to swords griselbrand. I don't daze. Really?? I didn't even see that I had the Underground in play. Stupid. Then, another match I Dazed a spell I should have let resolve, and the next turn the dude went off. Stupid.
I'm my worst enemy.
But I'm learning, and the deck is strong. I'm getting better with it. Hopefully in this case I CAN fix stupid.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DavidHernandez
No, seriously, I think I use extra lands as a crutch because I don't mulligan properly. Or I don't keep hands that I should...because I don't recognize there's a winning combo coming. Or I mull hands I should keep.
Last night I was VERY happy with my deck build, but I lost two matches and took myself out of the running because I'm stupid. I had Daze in hand and a tapped Island. Opponent taps out to swords griselbrand. I don't daze. Really?? I didn't even see that I had the Underground in play. Stupid. Then, another match I Dazed a spell I should have let resolve, and the next turn the dude went off. Stupid.
I'm my worst enemy.
But I'm learning, and the deck is strong. I'm getting better with it. Hopefully in this case I CAN fix stupid.
You may have some of my other problem with combo: I get nervous playing it for no reason. I miss shit all the time because I get all tweaked out, even if it's an 8-man with a bunch of guys I see every week. I honestly need to play this and maybe TES some more to get over that.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Richard Cheese
You may have some of my other problem with combo: I get nervous playing it for no reason. I miss shit all the time because I get all tweaked out, even if it's an 8-man with a bunch of guys I see every week. I honestly need to play this and maybe TES some more to get over that.
That's a good point. I used to play slow UW Miracle decks, then Death and Taxes. I have the pieces for ANT and will practice with Tin Fins and ANT. Good observation by you. I'll take that suggestion and get comfortable with combo.
Thanks.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
I very ooccasionally miss something but I have a strong background of storm-based combo predating the banning of mystical. I am currently becoming more and more irritated by a lack of options for more entomb effects. Dammit all.
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Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Whoa. Doo eet.
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Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Acclimation
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tin-fins-05-03-13-1/
Currently in bed, so here's a quick link.
I talked about sideboards on page 70 or 71 IIRC. It was a long post, with another post nearby talking about various hate people bring in for us.
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I like this list so far. Seems to be pretty consistent.
How would you board against Maverick, Patriot and Elves with it?
Greetings Chris
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mindlash
I like this list so far. Seems to be pretty consistent.
How would you board against Maverick, Patriot and Elves with it?
Greetings Chris
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post778798
UWR blade: -1 Reanimate -4 Probe -1 Ponder -1 LDV
+2 Silence +3 Chain +2 Massacre
Death and Taxes: +2 Needle +2 Chain +2 Massacre
-2 LDV -4 Probe -1 Reanimate
(Death and Taxes and Maverick attack along the same angles and the cards we care about are the same, so I just use the plan for D&T)
Elves I usually just board out the Swamp and go balls to the wall since I'm faster than they are, but you could also bring in both Massacre. They have DRS, and some discard against us, but that's usually it. MAYBE Relic, but I've never seen it.
For all you guys making small misplays and getting nervous while playing- just be ballsy. If you play fearlessly, your opponent will be afraid of you. The more you do it, the easier it becomes, trust me.
Then again, I played DDFT for a year before picking up the deck, so this was a large step down in difficulty for me (still has a lot of hard decisions and I occasionally mess up).
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Acclimation
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post778798
UWR blade: -1 Reanimate -4 Probe -1 Ponder -1 LDV
+2 Silence +3 Chain +2 Massacre
Death and Taxes: +2 Needle +2 Chain +2 Massacre
-2 LDV -4 Probe -1 Reanimate
(Death and Taxes and Maverick attack along the same angles and the cards we care about are the same, so I just use the plan for D&T)
Elves I usually just board out the Swamp and go balls to the wall since I'm faster than they are, but you could also bring in both Massacre. They have DRS, and some discard against us, but that's usually it. MAYBE Relic, but I've never seen it.
For all you guys making small misplays and getting nervous while playing- just be ballsy. If you play fearlessly, your opponent will be afraid of you. The more you do it, the easier it becomes, trust me.
Then again, I played DDFT for a year before picking up the deck, so this was a large step down in difficulty for me (still has a lot of hard decisions and I occasionally mess up).
I should learn to read more carefully. I saw your plan against UWR Blade in an earlier post but thought of some old Punishing Fire Stoneblade build for whatever reason :)
Since I use the same plan for Maverick and Death and Taxes in my ANT build too I should have been able to answer most of my questions myself :)
But thanks for your reply.
I guess you bring in and out the same cards against Team America / BUG Delver as you do against Shardless BUG and Jund due to Deathrite Shaman, Nihil Spellbomb and occasional permanent hate?
Greetings Chris
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mindlash
I guess you bring in and out the same cards against Team America / BUG Delver as you do against Shardless BUG and Jund due to Deathrite Shaman, Nihil Spellbomb and occasional permanent hate?
Greetings Chris
Correct - the Chain of Vapor handles many of the existing problems. Silence loses its efficiency against BUG builds due to their discard + counters. Alongside with DRS, they attack us from all three angles. This makes it a difficult (but not unwinnable) match.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
This weekend I took TinFins to the SCG Atlanta event, I wasnt planning on playing but I was offered the deck and couldn't say no. The list is the general Koby list with the addition of +2 Echoing Truth ( Should have been [card] Hoodwink [/card] / -2 Chain on board. Here are my matches in order Sneak and Show (Win), U/W Stoneblade (Win), Goblins (Loss), Elves (Win), Shardless Value (Win), Mono Red Sneak (Loss), U/R Delver Burn (Loss), Elves (Loss), Murica Delver (Loss).
RD1, Very nice guy from TN who I have played multiple events with. He leads Volc -> Ponder -> Probe, I show him my hand witch has Griselbrand with no other gas/ Info. Eventually I grind him out with Thoughtseize / Therapy and Combo kill.
G2 he mulls to 5, I keep a nuts hand and when he hits 4 mana I silence him, he spell pierces and passes. I cantrip a few times, then he casts a S&T and Griselbrand hits the table for me and then I win.
RD2, Chinese Student from Emory, very little English but an amazingly nice and talented player, Han was his name.
G1, Probe to see Thalia x2, Revoker, SFM, TNN, Tundra, Gate, Clique. Therapy Thalia, combo kill on T2
G2, He T1 Karakas into Tutor for Cannonist, I pack it up and move to SB.
G3, T1 Probe Therapy away a Humility, cantrip a few turns and Griselbrand and hardcast Emrakul
RD3, New to legacy player, on Goblins.
G1, Mesa into Lacky, pass, played Swamp, Ritual, Entomb, Shallow Grave so fast and kill him after I looped Emrakul a few times.
G2, T1 Relic into T2 Thalia, I kept a reasonable hand to deal with those threats but my mana was taxed.
G3, Thoughtseize Relic, He rips relic T1 and casts it, Rips Thalia, WL and Port get me.
RD4, Jeff, Elves, Said something about fun and interactive magic.
G1, T1 Storm Kill
G2, T1 DRS into T3 Hoof
G3, T1 DRS but doesnt draw mana, Taps DRS to cast GSZ for DA so he can cast scooze next turn with mana. I killed him though.
RD5, Local friend Mike who is on Shardless BUG, we both know what we are on, so we have a very friendly casual game of magic.
G1 I got the T1 kill.
G2 He T1 DRS and I ponder into Rit for the T1.
RD6 Local who is on Mono Red Sneak Attack, Same deck I played in GPDC to a lifetilt.
G1 No notes, I T1'd him.
G2 No notes, He T3'd me.
G3 Chalice on 1, Chalice on 2, Sneak Attack + Griselbrand , Worldspine, and Blightsteel
I made the whole table laugh with my comment "SO This is how it feels to be on the otherside"
RD7 Played Andrew Schnider, Local friend and UR Delver Patron
Quick 2 losses, we played the night before so he knew what I was on, knew how to interact, so I was okay losing to my friend.
RD8 Hayden on Elves
G1, T1 DRS, I snap off the Rit, Entomb, Grave for GB and show him my hand and he concedes.
G2 / G3 Were both Double DRS / Therapy / Thoughtseize games, I had no hand.
RD8, Tired, Wanted Food, No top 64, Derp
I really still love the deck and hopefully have the oppertunity to play it at GPNJ this year.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jon
RD3, New to legacy player, on Goblins.
G1, Mesa into Lacky, pass, played Swamp, Ritual, Entomb, Shallow Grave so fast and kill him after I looped Emrakul a few times.
G2, T1 Relic into T2 Thalia, I kept a reasonable hand to deal with those threats but my mana was taxed.
G3, Thoughtseize Relic, He rips relic T1 and casts it, Rips Thalia, WL and Port get me.
I think it's a rite of passage to lose to Goblins.
Seriously, I've lost against that deck more than I care to admit to as combo.
Good effort though, keep practicing and you'll be in good shape!
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Losing to goblins is soooo demoralizing. :( i feel your pain! I lost to goblins in a GPT with Tin Fins right before GP Denver to an Earwig Squad. Twice. Sometimes they just get you. :)
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
.dk
Losing to goblins is soooo demoralizing. :( i feel your pain! I lost to goblins in a GPT with Tin Fins right before GP Denver to an Earwig Squad. Twice. Sometimes they just get you. :)
Yeah I had to walk outside and get air. Its really stressful to lose to a match that feels like 90/10.
I will play TinFins again when the time comes (When my friend gives it to me) but for now back to the Belcher / SI / Doomsday side of the world!
