[Deck] 43 Lands

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Originally Posted by cuthbertthecat

I'm starting to think that Intuition + another tutor lands is just straight better than only E-tutor. I did a lot of testing today with just e-tutor, and I lost several favorable matchups because I died before I assembled a gameplan, a problem that intuition solves. I think that may be why you're having trouble with some of those favorable matchups; for example today I lost 2 matces to maverick in testing, when with Intuition and Tutor lands, I've lost only one match to maverick across countless tournaments of varying scales of competitiveness over the last 7 months.

You are correct that this deck is difficult, the best thing to do is find a friend who can stand some torture and playtest like a fiend. The more you play with this deck, the more tricks and synergies you find. I would also suggest switching to a build with Intuition and E-Tutor if you're having trouble finding relevant cards.

For mulligans, I always mulligan 7-landers, I don't keep hands with 2 or more pieces of acceleration without loam on hands with 6 cards or more, double-diamond with loam and only mana lands is a mulligan that deciptively looks like a keep, and I don't keep 7 card hands with only 1 tutor as a business spell and the rest lands. I'm pretty finnicky with my mulligans, but I think they're correct.

Nic fit is bad for us, but after the last several times I've played against it, I think it's beatable. They don't do anything, and not in the good way like us. TES is impossible, good pilots will be able to beat your LD. The last time I played against it, I wasted him 3 times and ghost quartered him, and he won with ease. The other time I played agaisnt it recently, he was able to beat chalice on 1 with waste lock. Just hope you don't get paired against it, or that they don't draw bounce.

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My list atm has changed to this;

4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
3 Intuition
4 Mox Diamond
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Manabond
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Cursed Totem
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
3 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Rifstone Portal
2 Mishra's Factory

My sideboard now;
1 Oblivion Stone
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Dark Confidant
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Circle of Protection Red
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Smokestack

Not been tested to much, but i like having the intuition. Chalice of the Void has been okay so far, but i think i like having Thalia in that spot perhaps. Thalia seems like a beating in the combo matchups. Not sure though, as it can't be found with enlightened tutor.

I disagree with the NicFit part though. They ramp up and play cards that you can't interact with favourably (Sigarda or other shroud guys), then blow up your cursed totems to use scavenging ooze. They have so many ways of taking you out, you can't actually lock them out, you have to hope to get there in someway, but locking them out is not the way :p.

As for the mulligan decisions, still hard, but thanks for your insight :D

Read through the primer and some pats of the thread, looking to play the deck at a tournament in the near future. Some comments:

Is Bojuka Bog effective maindeck? It seems very good in theory with the rise of RUG and Maverick along with lingering souls.
Is Darkblast a legitimate option for the deck to play? It gives us alot of reach and dredging into loam seems to be a good idea.

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Originally Posted by mario91234

Is Bojuka Bog effective maindeck? It seems very good in theory with the rise of RUG and Maverick along with lingering souls.
Is Darkblast a legitimate option for the deck to play? It gives us alot of reach and dredging into loam seems to be a good idea.

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Bog is good, and more since it can be tutored for.
About Darkblast, well except for bob I can't think of any x/1 I would like to kill right away.

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Originally Posted by Stoyrm

Thalia seems like a beating in the combo matchups. Not sure though, as it can't be found with enlightened tutor.

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Thorn of Amethyst can, and it's arguably even better from our point of view (not susceptible to creature removal, tutorable, same CMC so it's no slower to cast, and can be brought back with Academy Ruins). Maybe give that a shot?

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Originally Posted by fdiv_bug

Thorn of Amethyst can, and it's arguably even better from our point of view (not susceptible to creature removal, tutorable, same CMC so it's no slower to cast, and can be brought back with Academy Ruins). Maybe give that a shot?

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Maybe, but thorn not putting them under any pressure is an issue. I think if you want that effect Thalia is just the best, although I'm not sure if either is better than more Canonists.

When i played my storm deck i usually had way worse a time dealing with Thalia than Canonist. Also; Thorn of Amethyst, does not put pressure on the opponent as cuth said. Oh well, i guess i'll have to try it out someday :). Just got to be done with the exams first!

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Originally Posted by Stoyrm

When i played my storm deck i usually had way worse a time dealing with Thalia than Canonist. Also; Thorn of Amethyst, does not put pressure on the opponent as cuth said. Oh well, i guess i'll have to try it out someday :). Just got to be done with the exams first!

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Yeah Thalia is harder for them, but I dont have any foil Thalias. It's quite the predicament.

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Originally Posted by fdiv_bug

Thorn of Amethyst can, and it's arguably even better from our point of view (not susceptible to creature removal, tutorable, same CMC so it's no slower to cast, and can be brought back with Academy Ruins). Maybe give that a shot?

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The only deck that you probably want to side sphere effects in against is a combo deck, and Combo players are more inclined to have artifact hate and bounce than creature removal, because bounce solves every one of their problems, and Stax cards like Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere are so much more crippling that having a permanent response to them is far more important than being able to kill a Thalia or a Gaddock Teeg permanently. In addition, Thalia actually kills your opponent, which seems better than giving them infinite time to find an answer to your disruption.

Thalia has no synergy with your deck. and a 10 turn clock isnt doing antything for you.


if you play thalia, play 10+ hatebears at least.


and of course any storm players creature bounce in sideboard.

However, you're also playing mishra's factory and dark confidant. In a combo matchup, it's likely that it won't be a 10 turn clock, and it also makes all your wastelands and ports better.

Hi all,

About the nic-fit matchup : has anybody thought to Karmic Justice?

It answers to the most problematic spell for us (Pernicious Deed) while it is still decente against pulse and qsali or whatever.

It is tutorable by e-tutor.

What do you think?

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Originally Posted by Giggioz

Hi all,

About the nic-fit matchup : has anybody thought to Karmic Justice?

It answers to the most problematic spell for us (Pernicious Deed) while it is still decente against pulse and qsali or whatever.

It is tutorable by e-tutor.

What do you think?

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It's not awful, it seems pretty fine for a heavy nic-fit meta but I can't imagine other matchups where it comes in. Maybe for the mirror and other loam decks.

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Originally Posted by cuthbertthecat

It's not awful, it seems pretty fine for a heavy nic-fit meta but I can't imagine other matchups where it comes in. Maybe for the mirror and other loam decks.

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As you said, it resolves quite nicely mirror and aggro loam decks too, answering to their mana denial strategy (no more wasteland for them, no more devastating dreams) and other stuffs like explosives, oblivion stone, krosan grip... i think it could be a nice touch.

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Originally Posted by Giggioz

As you said, it resolves quite nicely mirror and aggro loam decks too, answering to their mana denial strategy (no more wasteland for them, no more devastating dreams) and other stuffs like explosives, oblivion stone, krosan grip... i think it could be a nice touch.

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Yeah, I think that Nic Fit is making up a significant enough part of the meta that it warrants inclusion. If it tests well, the real challenge will be finding foil ones...

Tested against Dream Halls yesterday. I had a 4 Dark Confidants, Thalia and Ethersworn Canonist to help me in the battle. Preboard is -100%. You can't win :P. Post board i won 4 out of 5 games. Thalia and Ethersworn were both great, and it really comes up to laying on of them and locking down their mana. The player wasn't all that great though, but i would encourage playing a few games with Thalia :)

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Originally Posted by Stoyrm

Tested against Dream Halls yesterday. I had a 4 Dark Confidants, Thalia and Ethersworn Canonist to help me in the battle. Preboard is -100%. You can't win :P. Post board i won 4 out of 5 games. Thalia and Ethersworn were both great, and it really comes up to laying on of them and locking down their mana. The player wasn't all that great though, but i would encourage playing a few games with Thalia :)

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I'd believe it. I also kinda want to put trinisphere back in the board; I don't see how they beat that one.

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Originally Posted by cuthbertthecat

I'd believe it. I also kinda want to put trinisphere back in the board; I don't see how they beat that one.

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I'm playing a singleton 3sphere in side aswell. Wrecks alot of decks.

I'm really liking the Karmic Justice idea. Used to be tech in Stax against rock decks back then, so I guess it could go in my flex slot. Trying it out!

Edit: Does Prismatic Omen nullify Blood Moon for us, and if so is it good for us to have on side or kind of a waste of sideboard space?

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Originally Posted by TraxDaMax

Does Prismatic Omen nullify Blood Moon for us, and if so is it good for us to have on side or kind of a waste of sideboard space?

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Kinda/sometimes. They're both applied at the same layer (Layer 4), and neither one is dependent on the other, so they'll be applied in timestamp order. This means that if Blood Moon came out first, then you played Prismatic Omen, your nonbasic lands would become only Mountains, then all your lands would become all basic land types and could tap for any color. Conversely, if you played Prismatic Omen first, then your opponent Blood Moon'd all over the place, then you'd have a bunch of lands that first became all basic land types, and then the nonbasics would become only Mountains.

However, regardless of this, none of your nonbasics would have their additional abilities (e.g. Maze of Ith couldn't untap an attacking creature, and Creeping Tar Pit couldn't become one), because Blood Moon wiped that out when it was applied, and Prismatic Omen wouldn't ever restore it. Since that's primarily what our lands are for -- Mana abilities? Pfft. We got lots of mana. -- it probably isn't quite the trick you're looking for.

Good thought and good question, though.

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Originally Posted by TraxDaMax

I'm playing a singleton 3sphere in side aswell. Wrecks alot of decks.

I'm really liking the Karmic Justice idea. Used to be tech in Stax against rock decks back then, so I guess it could go in my flex slot. Trying it out!

Edit: Does Prismatic Omen nullify Blood Moon for us, and if so is it good for us to have on side or kind of a waste of sideboard space?

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As stated, it can make your lands make non-red mana, but Oblivion Stone is a better answer that comes in against multiple decks.

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Originally Posted by cuthbertthecat

As stated, it can make your lands make non-red mana, but Oblivion Stone is a better answer that comes in against multiple decks.

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I haven't been able to try out Oblivion Stone yet, but it looks like a solid answer to Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon.

I played Lands yesterday at a 73 man tourny, and lost a game to a turn 3 resolved Magus of the Moon, that kicked me 10 times. I had sensei on the field, and a couple of answers to Magus if I could only hit a mox, but after ten turns "topping" I still didn't find one. :(

(Curious as I am I checked to see when my Mox was coming, and it still took 12 cards... so pretty bad luck there.)

I went 3wins, 3 draw, 1 loss. Was first time I put the deck together and took it to a tourny.
A card that remains an all-star after all these years is Chalice of the Void. It's ridiculous how good this card is when you time it right, and almost nobody is prepared for it. I locked out Burn and High Tide with it, and slowed down Sneaky Show (although that was the game magus did 20 dmg)
The fact that Tolaria West gets it for you is just awesome.

After getting soft-locked by Leyline of the Void and pretty much hard-locked by Magus of the Moon I'm thinking 3 Oblivion Stone should be in the sideboard now though. Trinisphere was good, but not outstanding in most match-ups. Usually I just wanted to bring in CotV.
Karmic Justice worked like a charm against Pox.
I don't think 4 Dark Confidant should ever leave sideboard in this deck. It acts like your loam 5-8 basicly. And he won me several games yesterday while my graveyard was shutdown.

Most of these things probably make sense and are logic to most, but just trying to throw out my conclusions of the deck and see if people think they are right.