[DTB] Vial Goblins

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Originally Posted by nickrit2000

If players start by switching only to the black splash for goblins, then what is your answer to engineered plague? I simply don't want to be put into a situation where I don't have an answer to that card. I believe the green splash is very important in the metagame today as it gives you more answers like engineered explosives, cabal therapy, krosn grip, tin street hooligan.
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I dont understand your arguement entirely. You have 3 grips in your board. that you cant tutor in any way for. do you think by the time you draw one the game will be in your favor? I opt to REMOVE those threats from the deck with earwig and beat face. The 3rd SCG has been fantastic, 3 earwigs makes chances of turn 2 prowl even better. What deck that boards e. plague arent we faster than? I also am playing larger CC goblins to avoid getting nailed by explosives. I would love to squeeze some ports into my deck to get the mana denial going to really put the pinch on the opponent.

Dralnu's Crusade is another option for the board against plague, but I dont think it is necessary

There's mad auntie too. That thing also helps in chumpblocking goyfs.

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Originally Posted by bruenor

I dont understand your arguement entirely. You have 3 grips in your board. that you cant tutor in any way for. do you think by the time you draw one the game will be in your favor? I opt to REMOVE those threats from the deck with earwig and beat face. The 3rd SCG has been fantastic, 3 earwigs makes chances of turn 2 prowl even better. What deck that boards e. plague arent we faster than? I also am playing larger CC goblins to avoid getting nailed by explosives. I would love to squeeze some ports into my deck to get the mana denial going to really put the pinch on the opponent.

Dralnu's Crusade is another option for the board against plague, but I dont think it is necessary

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I'm going to try to explain my reasoning to you. You are relying on a card that is only good against hate if you draw it earlier. Furthermore, Earwing Squad is a sub-par goblin to be playing in the deck. There are many other goblins that come to my head that I would play before I would even consider Earwing Squad. It's a good card to play in extended, but as for legacy; forget about it.

What is your point that I can't tutor for grip and how is that even relevant?

I have 3 Krosan Grips and 2 Engineered Explosives in my board to help fight through plagues. A lot of players have not included explosives when they are playing 3 colors in the board which is a mistake. Explosives helps you solve so many different problems, a great card to have.

I don't understand why you have a problem with my build, its way more consistent in not only dealing with plague, but also other matchups with the addition of green in the main deck and board.

To back what Nick said. What if they have said card in hand, not their library? Earwig Squad does nothing to stop an opening hand with 2x Plague. Nothing.

To be fair, double plague will only happen about 10% of the time, and R/b lists will always be running Therapies, which they will have about 40% of the time. so 6% autoloss is not the end of the world. With grips and therapies, that only drops to a 4% chance of pulling an opener without an answer and the opp having double plague.

On another not, Earwig Squad is a terrific card to deal with threat-light decks like Thresh or MUC, where it demands a coi

K guys, I've been a long-time visiter of the source, but this is my first post, but as a competitive and successful Goblin player of over a year, this is what I've learned: If you're playing RbG gobs, like I do, grip and E Explosives are necessary in the board. Not only do they stop E Plague, but also other problem cards such as Propaganda, Ghostly Prison, most enchantments (minus Moat for E Explosives) of Enchantress, and are just amazingly useful in most situations. I run ONE earwig squad in my board, and board it in against Threshold, combo, Enchantress, and a few other problem match-ups. I don't agree with running them in the main, as in most cases they're not as good as Seige-Gang at 5, and lots of times you want a more valid spell at three to solve the problems that HAVE ALREADY HIT THE BOARD by turn three, as they most likely have. Also, I run 4 thoughtseize mainboard, which through an immense amount of playtesting, have proven to be amazing. That gets rid of the problem spells on turn one without your opponent even playing them. If anything, bye-bye Goyfy. Ask if you want my list.

I just had a pretty interesting idea. Some crazy U/R Goblins deck has already been proposed on these boards, but this isn't really that; it's just --

Goblins.dec With Blue Splash

4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
? Siege-Gang Commander
? Gempalm Incinerator
4 Standstill
3-4 Stifle
3-4 Wasteland
3-4 Mutavault
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Volcanic Island
2-4 Mountain
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 4 Daze
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Mind Harness

You gain:
- Standstill, which together with Vial, Lackey, and Mutavault, might be good. (It might still not be, but the potential is definitely there. I haven't tested it.)
- Stifle, which goes well with Wasteland.
- The ability to actually beat a combo deck after boarding. Force, Daze, Stifle, and Wasteland, together with a good clock, should be formidable. 16 blue cards for Force isn't great by any means, but it should be workable.

You lose:
- Any half-decent way of dealing with a Tarmogoyf in the maindeck.
- The ability to play the number of Siege-Gangs and Incinerators which you would otherwise like to.
- A good way to deal with Plagues and other random things. (There's bounce, but bounce isn't Grip.)

The existence of Tarmogoyf is a significant mark against it, but in certain metagames, with, um... not too many Tarmogoyfs, but lots of combo and lots of decks which are naturally weak against Goblins... it might be worth a shot.

UR Golbins has always been an interesting idea, but never good enough. And where I play, there are massive amounts of Threshold. Golbins lose to a resolved Goyf with protection, i.e. counter-top, counterspells, etc. for your answers. If you want a blue/red deck, play green/red/blue Threshold, which is much better than UR goblins, in my opinion. I play the following build:

4 Mountains
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Badlands
1 Taiga
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Rishidan Port
3 Wasteland

4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Lackey
3 Goblin Piledriver
3 Mogg Fanatic
1 Seige-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie

1 Tarfire

4 AEther Vial

4 Warren Weirding
4 Thoughtseize

Side Board (obviously meta-dependent)
1 Earwig Squad
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Goblin Pyromancer
3 Krosan Grip
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
4 Chalice of the Void

The mainboard thoughtseizes wreck alot of trouble matchups, including Threshold, Geddon Stax, and Stiflenought/dreadstill, all of which are in my meta. Also, I believe 4 warren weirding is amazing. In legacy, all of the best decks (besides Goblins) play 8-12 creatures, which means they'll play 1-2 a game. Warren weirding has won me so many games by destroying Goyf after Goyf. It kills Mongoose, Goyf, Dreadnought, Tog (ITF), Argothian Enchantress, Tombstalker, and all of those rarely have companions alongside them to sacrifice. Anyway, its good. :P

Hey, I've been getting into goblins lately (mostly on MWS though I'm building a deck in real life as well) and I was wondering why nobody seems to play kiki anymore? He seems like a pretty versatile guy to me, being able to fetch you a goblin every turn and spitting out 2 piledriver copies to finish your opponent off.

He seems like a win more card and his manacost is kind of steep, but doesn't his versatility make up for it?

Also, my apologies for asking this question if it's already been answered somewhere on page 40 (or something) since I honestly haven't had the time to read everything yet.

Short version: there are very few situations where K-J will win the game while Siege Gang Commander doesn't, but there are a lot of them where the reverse happens.

Fair enough, thanks for the swift answer.

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Originally Posted by Illissius

I just had a pretty interesting idea. Some crazy U/R Goblins deck has already been proposed on these boards, but this isn't really that; it's just --

Goblins.dec With Blue Splash

4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
? Siege-Gang Commander
? Gempalm Incinerator
4 Standstill
3-4 Stifle
3-4 Wasteland
3-4 Mutavault
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Volcanic Island
2-4 Mountain
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 4 Daze
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Mind Harness

You gain:
- Standstill, which together with Vial, Lackey, and Mutavault, might be good. (It might still not be, but the potential is definitely there. I haven't tested it.)
- Stifle, which goes well with Wasteland.
- The ability to actually beat a combo deck after boarding. Force, Daze, Stifle, and Wasteland, together with a good clock, should be formidable. 16 blue cards for Force isn't great by any means, but it should be workable.

You lose:
- Any half-decent way of dealing with a Tarmogoyf in the maindeck.
- The ability to play the number of Siege-Gangs and Incinerators which you would otherwise like to.
- A good way to deal with Plagues and other random things. (There's bounce, but bounce isn't Grip.)

The existence of Tarmogoyf is a significant mark against it, but in certain metagames, with, um... not too many Tarmogoyfs, but lots of combo and lots of decks which are naturally weak against Goblins... it might be worth a shot.

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What an awesome idea. Standstill is wicked in the deck. Is there any way we could sneak in Brainstorm? If we could do that then we could add four Force of Will!! Take that Threshold!

Bad Magic, you are being sarcastic, right? Blue in Goblins will never work. Threshold will beat it every time, no matter what, and when I was at the GP Indy Legacy event, half of the field was Threshold.

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Originally Posted by Brizentine Empire

Bad Magic, you are being sarcastic, right? Blue in Goblins will never work. Threshold will beat it every time, no matter what, and when I was at the GP Indy Legacy event, half of the field was Threshold.

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No. Brainstorm into Goblin Lacky with Force of Will to back it up sounds amazing. It would seem there are a lot of good goblins but usually only the best ones are relavant.

didn't goblins used to beat thrashold before Tarmogoyf? We just need to find new ways to beat it.

Brainstorm screws your tempo badly. It's not an option for aggro decks.

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Originally Posted by Jaiminho

Brainstorm screws your tempo badly. It's not an option for aggro decks.

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Yeah, but protecting gobling lackey gains way more tempo and gives you a solid win con. We play lots of fetches too, it could be good.

Standstill is counter productive for you even if you are playing vial and lackey. I would also pay attention to what people are saying about brainstorm, it's a tempo loss anyway you look at it. Sure you save your lackey, but you also put back a goblin or two you could have put into play with him. I'd rather play the raw card advantage the deck originally played.

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Originally Posted by edgewalker

Standstill is counter productive for you even if you are playing vial and lackey. I would also pay attention to what people are saying about brainstorm, it's a tempo loss anyway you look at it. Sure you save your lackey, but you also put back a goblin or two you could have put into play with him. I'd rather play the raw card advantage the deck originally played.

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Yeah, but goblin lackey doesnt have haste. you draw a card for the turn and we start the game with seven cards. seems like a non-issue if you ask me

besides, how sick is Gobling ringleader with brainstorm? It's a draw engine!

Those goblins where in your hand to begin with though...

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Originally Posted by edgewalker

Those goblins where in your hand to begin with though...

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Draw engine. put them back on top and reveal them.