[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

I'm doing fine with 14 lands, but maybe testing will show me that another land is better than another Ponder.

I had the same feeling for the 3 Crypts, nice that someone could confirm this.
Well, we have 2 BW decks here in our Meta which both run Tidehollow Sculller. Slaughter Pact sucks against him, but costs less against normal hate bears, I know.
Is Echoing Truth that good? Against which matchups is it better than other bounce? Mainly Ichorid and Storm with EtW, right?
The Duress are there for the mirror, though 1 Silence might be enough. Needs more testing.
Adding a second land to the SB makes me hesitant. I know it can be vital, but I got no clue whether it would be worth it. We have 1 Merfolk player that sometimes plays 4 Stifle, sometimes doesn't and 1 who plays TA or Canadian. Gah, i guess I just confirmed it being useful.

Thanks for the help!

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Originally Posted by Nidd

I'm doing fine with 14 lands, but maybe testing will show me that another land is better than another Ponder.

I had the same feeling for the 3 Crypts, nice that someone could confirm this.
Well, we have 2 BW decks here in our Meta which both run Tidehollow Sculller. Slaughter Pact sucks against him, but costs less against normal hate bears, I know.
Is Echoing Truth that good? Against which matchups is it better than other bounce? Mainly Ichorid and Storm with EtW, right?
The Duress are there for the mirror, though 1 Silence might be enough. Needs more testing.
Adding a second land to the SB makes me hesitant. I know it can be vital, but I got no clue whether it would be worth it. We have 1 Merfolk player that sometimes plays 4 Stifle, sometimes doesn't and 1 who plays TA or Canadian. Gah, i guess I just confirmed it being useful.

Thanks for the help!

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Against anything that isn't blue, you want to board out Chants for bounce. I prefer Echoing Truths because they randomly bounce multiples and they get around Chalice at one, which is quite a common hate card people play.

I think more Chants are better for the mirror than Duress. The opponent is going to have a hard time when you have more Chants than he does.

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Originally Posted by Bahamuth

We board in the Snow-Covered mountains to pretend to have a transformational sideboard to mono red Quinn.

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No that's because you did not want to let the world know they were actually Carpet of Flowers. Well now they know!

..............................................Again!

Now they got me thinking, is Carpet of Flowers just plain better than Xantid Swarm?

Xantid is awesome against Merfolk.

Carpet is awesome against Tempo ***** and good against Merfolk.

Xantid shuts down all their counters, but it eats removal against *****.

The Carpet turn Daze/Cursecatch/Stilfe(to a degree) into a joke.

So, is it better to just play 4 Carpets and pray you get more Chants than they get FoWs?

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Originally Posted by alderon666

Burning Wish is a fucking good card.

It really speeds up the deck, gives you more virtual finishers and allow you to play Empty the Warrens, which sometimes on the first or second turn is as good as Tendrils for 20.

The problem is that you need UBW, then you need green for Krosan Grip and Xantid swarm. Adding red turns it into 5 color storm, for that's just stretching the mana base too much.

Chants are just superior to discard most of the time. That's why I would never play straight NLS, 5 discard spells as protection just don't cut it for me. They still leave you vunerable to stuff like Spell Snare, Stifle, etc.

I don't know what the solution is.

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It's not that withot green, you can't go anywhere. Pyroblasts are as good as Xantid as protection, of course they do not provide Chant effects but they are far more flexible and can kill anything, from Cursecatcher to Vendilion Clique, and do not require a turn to operate. Lately, I've also noticed that more and more blue decks are keeping removal spells g2 against combo, because they expect some switchoff into creature protection/utility (Dark confidant, Xantid Swarm, Vexing Shusher). The only deck against which I see Xantid being totally busted is Merfolks, but you should already be able to beat a sb'ed Merfolk.
Plus, Blasts can get rid of Counterbalance on the spot. Often CB+Top players hold hands without any counter but with CB because they think that CB is the ultimate weapon against us, that can win them the game alone. Here a good package of Duress+Pyroblast can really help you in both discarding or countering it, a thing that Chant effects don't do. And waiting too much to hold the Krosan Grip to destroy it is a clear sign that you hold one of the traditional cc3 CB hate combo uses to pack (Wipe Away, KGrip), so the more time you give to them, the more they understand y have of them in hand. Of course KGrip is > to Pyroblast since Split Second, but you can get it even with Pyroblast.

That said, I'd like to show my last DDTES list. The maindeck is practically Citanul's one with small tweaks, but the sideboard has some tools to fight against all the Tiers.

// Lands

4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [A] Underground Sea
2 [b] Tundra
1 [b] Volcanic Island
1 [PT] Swamp (2)
1 [UG] Island

// Spells

1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
1 [TE] Meditate
1 [WL] Doomsday

4 [MI] Mystical Tutor
2 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
2 [JU] Burning Wish

4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [MM] Brainstorm
2 [LRW] Ponder

2 [PS] Orim's Chant
1 [M10] Silence
3 [US] Duress

4 [b] Dark Ritual
2 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
2 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TE] Lotus Petal


// Sideboard
SB: 1 [b] Volcanic Island
SB: 1 [WL] Doomsday
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [M10] Silence
SB: 1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [10E] Deathmark
SB: 1 [US] Meltdown
SB: 1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 [AQ] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 3 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 1 [PS] Rushing River

-As you can see, it's DDANT with Burning Wishes to have a comfortable shortcut in the form of EtW and also to not suffer crap like Extract or Extirpate on Tendrils (happens, especially now that combo is on the steady rise), and also an out to some things like Gaddock Teeg in g1. Plus, with BWish you rise your threat density a lot, and enables double IGG loops by wishing for the Infernal tutor and going IGG, OR wishing for an IGG having already an IT in the yard, and double looping your opponent out. But you already knew this, didn't you? ^^

-Differently from Citanul, I opted to mix the protection between Duress and Chant because I felt 6 Chants sometimes slowed down the deck too much, in the fact that you're going to cast them in the big turn (except for bluffs, of course). Duress not only can be cast before, it also nets you information about the opponent's deck, and make you know the proper way to go off (if I see Spell Snare, I'll try to Doomsday-kill him, ecc).

-I also prefer to have Duress rather than Chant against things like, say, Zoo. While the argument that Chant slow them down a turn can be accepted, it is partially true because you're almost never going to chant them on turn1, since you do not know what they're playing (in the first game),with the risk of wasting a potential protection against blue; usually Zoo makes a critter on the 1st turn, so you can Chant them the turn after preventing to play, say, a Goyf, but it's not a great deal considering that they'll just beat yu with their Nacatl, and play the Goyf the turn after.
Duress instead can get rid of Burn spells, and most of all lets you know if you can go for a quick Ad Nauseam victory without the inconvenient of getting a Bolt+Fireblast when you're low on life.

-Plus, Duress is more synergic with Burning Wish when you're going to make 10+ tokens, and need to know if they have a mass removal in hand. That's a thing Chant can't really do.


-The manabase probably needs still some tweaking, the greatest indecision is whether or not to cut a Tundra for a Scrubland, because Scrubland allows you to bluff a double chant or to cast a Dark ritual in response to a daze on Chant to trick the opponent. The Swamp is more probably going to stay there, in the end it's a solid UB base with only 3 cards for white, and 2 for red, so differently from the 6 chants version (where the white presence must be emphatized, thus the lack of a second basic), this list can afford a basic swamp.

For the Sb:
-I tried to mix The 16th land there will help you finding red more easily, as well as supporting Meltdown and giving you another land against land destruction decks. Increasing your land count is something very important against these decks, where 15 is usually not enough to avoid being manascrewed or stuck on only 1 land. Perhaps that could be a Badlands, but if I switch the Tundra to a Scrubland (which I have done now, btw), I should be comfortable in having enough black lands.

-The other slots are the usual Wishboard+artifact solutions, and hate bears' ones. I also pack Rushing River because it's a 4th reactive answer against CB, but it's also great against Chalice&Trini decks.

-The 4th Chant is there to come in against Tempo decks,and Daze+Force ones, as well as Landstill.

Tell me what you think about this.

Angel's Grace could very well be a meta choice; if people play large amounts of zoo / sligh / burn, it seems good with Ad Nauseum.

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Tell me what you think about this.

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You changed the manabase to it's original form. I used to play the maindeck Swamp but never felt that it was needed. After switching to full Chant effects I replaced it with a 9th fetch. I don't know if it's needed to add the Swamp again even though you run Duress. The alteration I used between fetch was just to avoid splash damage from hate such as Pithing Needle or even Extirpate.

I do agree that running Duress is better than running Chants when you expect Counterbalance based decks. But it's just worse than chant effects against blue non-Counterbalance based decks. Duress does not protect you from SDT floating a card or them having a counter in their graveyard for IGG-Loops, Chant does. So this decision is a mostly a metagame call.
But even then, I do not find Duress to be enough against CB decks. They often hide it with Brainstorm or have placed it second down with their turn1 Ponder. They can just topdeck it! And I hate luck factors.

I ran Pyroblasts as well during a tournament but never faced a CB based deck all day long so they did nothing. What I did notice is that people side in Blue Elemental Blast when you show them your Burning Wish. I sometimes side those out which creates death cards in their deck. With your sideboard you just give them more targets for it.

I wanted to bring up the latest deck on deckcheck.

5 Color Ad Nauseam

He's playing a 5 color DD version with only 1 top! >.< He placed 3rd.

Weirdest version I've never seen.

He is playing 1 top.
The manabase is completely f**ked. (9 fetches, no duals, 1 island, 4 city of brass)
8 chant effects

Am I missing something here??

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Originally Posted by CUB3X

I wanted to bring up the latest deck on deckcheck.

5 Color Ad Nauseam

He's playing a 5 color DD version with only 1 top! >.< He placed 3rd.

Weirdest version I've never seen.

He is playing 1 top.
The manabase is completely f**ked. (9 fetches, no duals, 1 island, 4 city of brass)
8 chant effects

Am I missing something here??

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I feel like the decklist is wrong. I don't see how that is playable, even in an event of only 13 people.

Didn't you know that City of Brass can be fetched?
N00bs

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Originally Posted by Piceli89

Didn't you know that City of Brass can be fetched?
N00bs

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This is why I run fetchlands in my Ichorid! Who needs to fetch weak 2 color lands when I can fetch awesome 5 color lands!

/joke

I've been really wanting to test out this deck again. I played Iggy Pop for a long time, swapped to TES eventually, and have played ANT a few times since it's come out.

One of my biggest fears when I play this deck is Sadistic Sacrament. I've seen this card played more and more lately. It's gotten to the point where I want to just do one maindecked Tendrils and IGG and then have some number of Burning Wish. I just wouldn't do the DD route with this plan as the slots are kinda squished. Anyone have ideas on combating SS other than "Play another deck"?

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Originally Posted by chokin

This is why I run fetchlands in my Ichorid! Who needs to fetch weak 2 color lands when I can fetch awesome 5 color lands!

/joke

I've been really wanting to test out this deck again. I played Iggy Pop for a long time, swapped to TES eventually, and have played ANT a few times since it's come out.

One of my biggest fears when I play this deck is Sadistic Sacrament. I've seen this card played more and more lately. It's gotten to the point where I want to just do one maindecked Tendrils and IGG and then have some number of Burning Wish. I just wouldn't do the DD route with this plan as the slots are kinda squished. Anyone have ideas on combating SS other than "Play another deck"?

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NLS plays around this, and is still a DD storm deck at heart, even more so if you play emidln's version that has 4x Burning Wish.

Tempo matchups won't be so easy w/o chants, but I suppose you can try citanul's version without green (which subsequently makes your CB matchups harder - can't win em all boys).

Hey all,

I'd like to start playing storm combo but I see so many versions, I'm not sure where to begin.

Is there a primer on ANT/DDANT/TES comparing the three and giving details as to why one over the other?

If not, can you guys give me a bit of direction as to why I would choose one over the other?

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by neenjafus

Hey all,

I'd like to start playing storm combo but I see so many versions, I'm not sure where to begin.

Is there a primer on ANT/DDANT/TES comparing the three and giving details as to why one over the other?

If not, can you guys give me a bit of direction as to why I would choose one over the other?

Thanks!

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You can read about TES in the established decks forum. The author points out some differences between ANT and TES in the thread - the main one being no fetchlands which means you can't get your lands stifled but on the other hand you can't shuffle away useless stuff like Chrome Mox with fetch + Brainstorm, unless you have both Brainstorm and Ponder in hand and the mana to cast them. So ANT is more capable of sculpting a good hand by deck manipulation, and this might just be personal preference but I don't think you should ever give up on that. I have never played DDANT but many people seem to think it's the best. As far as I know it hasn't put up the same results as ANT yet though.

that makes sense. It does seem as if TES can be a bit faster but I have noticed that it seems to have a bit less deck manipulation.

I guess I should just try both and see what I like, there aren't many more cards I'd need to build both.

Thanks!

Hello everyone. I have yet to take AnT to a tournament, but I am considering playing it this weekend. However, I'm still quite unsure on sideboarding with this deck. Deciding which cards to put in is usually pretty straightforward, but which do you take out?

I'm playing a 6 Chant, 2 Top-build, 1 AdN, 1 IGG, no DD.

Let's say i'm playing against Merfolk. Then I would like to add, like, Pyroblast, Xantid Swarm or Carpet of Flowers or whatever depending on the SB. But what to take out? Chants are still very useful, so I'd prefer not to remove to many of them, but in adding cards in a fourth color perhaps means I should just replace them since I have to change 1-2 lands too? The same goes with most Blue-based decks against which the Chants work very well. I want Krosan Grip in to be able to handle Counterbalance, but again, what to take out? Mana acceleration?

Is this a keepable hand G1 against an unknown opponent?

Top, Fetch, Fetch, Island, Dark Ritual, Brainstorm, Orim's Chant

I am inclined to say no, but you have two shuffles to find stuff. Is this line of thinking just dumb? Or is it worth to gamble? (I especially hate being down cards with Tendrils decks.)

I am playing citanul's list except for -1 Silence, +1 Top.

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Originally Posted by easyrider

Is this a keepable hand G1 against an unknown opponent?

Top, Fetch, Fetch, Island, Dark Ritual, Brainstorm, Orim's Chant

I am inclined to say no, but you have two shuffles to find stuff. Is this line of thinking just dumb? Or is it worth to gamble? (I especially hate being down cards with Tendrils decks.)

I am playing citanul's list except for -1 Silence, +1 Top.

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That is a very, very keepable hand.
I wish I opened like that every game.

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Originally Posted by Yesmilord

That is a very, very keepable hand.
I wish I opened like that every game.

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I wish it too.

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Originally Posted by easyrider

Is this a keepable hand G1 against an unknown opponent?

Top, Fetch, Fetch, Island, Dark Ritual, Brainstorm, Orim's Chant

I am inclined to say no, but you have two shuffles to find stuff. Is this line of thinking just dumb? Or is it worth to gamble? (I especially hate being down cards with Tendrils decks.)

I am playing citanul's list except for -1 Silence, +1 Top.

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It's a nice hand! I'd play Island, Top. Then next turn you can brainstorm, fetch and look with top. It's a good hand to have a protected win on turn 3 or 4, so it's quite good against most matchups.