What if he silences back with the silence we know he has and then wins with tendrils on his turn cause we're out of disruption?
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What if he silences back with the silence we know he has and then wins with tendrils on his turn cause we're out of disruption?
How about wait until he tries to do something....?
Clearly you don't go for it if he's got the Silence.
1) What are the other 5 cards in his graveyard? (any duress? library manipulation since your duress?)
2) What are the other 4 card in your graveyard?
3) do you have ad nauseam still in your deck?
4) When did you play the duress to see his hand (how many draw steps for him ago)?
The correct play (my opinion - not the best player ever)^^ is:
if you don't draw a mana source or LED or c.mox: (do nothing) go.
if you draw a duress: duress ...
if you draw a land: play land, ritel etw ,go with silence open (if ad nauseam is still in your library).
-> if he goes silence in his turn silence back. Asuming that this situation is two turns after duress the probability of him drawing a piece of disuption in addition to silence are around 44%(against Bryant's list) if he played disruption before lower-> if you get silence out of his hand (he either silences in response to rite or during his turn trying to go iggy) go for infernal into adn in the turn after that. If not you got 4 token and you can draw, attack for 4 with silence in your hand.
if you draw a non land mana saurce producing black: keep it in your hand, ritel etw, silence open go.
if you draw rite of flame: (depends how many mana source are in your graveyard) probably still rite etw, silence open go.
never: silence during your turn go for it -.-
correct me if I am wrong and excuse my bad English ^^
IMHO, I would also do the same thing. Patiently wait for my opportunity or wait for him to make a mistake..Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiang
Normally you would be playing the waiting game here and hoping to draw: Duress, Burning Wish, or another Chant. Since you know he has Chant in hand I would start putting the pressure on and play Rite of Flame and Empty for 4 keeping the Petal open for your Chant. He is now on a clock. And if he rips it before you do ... whatever, at least u tried something. I assume your opponent has a hand similar to yours and you guys are just waiting for the next protection spell.
Give him a short clock and force them to find an answer rather than just rely on topdecking skills. If he Chants u on his turn, Chant right back then go for it on yours, force the action and the mistakes from your opponent.
Agreed. I have no idea how the board got here though. Why is all the mana on the board? Did you get Chanted mid-combo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
Anyway. Rite EtW for pressure. If he Chants on his next turn, you're forced to crack petal and Chant back. You can still just cast an AdN next turn if you draw any mana source.
it looks like in a previous turn that was the case, as I'm assuming that the duress hit ad naus. Looking at the graveyard a bit closer it poses the following problem:
If you can't chant on your opponents next turn, they make the following play (assuming drawing an additional mana source of any color, if they don't have any in hand):
Silence, play out mana sources, IGG, rit, rit, ad naus (or infernal for infernal depending on how much mana you have based on our lack of knowledge of the rest of their hand) and likely win from there.
Which means you have to hope that they attempt to chant at their turn and attempt to go off while you have the white open for silence. This lets you chant them, and either attempt to go off on your own turn, or sit and wait. If he attempts to IGG without silence protection, you get access to three protection spells which you can use to tear his hand apart (probably take silence, duress, and Infernal tutor) and win when it comes back to your turn. So by nature of negating his silence, if you can keep a white source open on each of his turns after he has played out his first silence, and assuming he has no more in hand, you negate access to IGG.
I definitely stick with my initial decision to Empty into 4 tokens and keep the white up for silence... its just got a bit more interesting gameplay things going on after depending on what you draw and decide to keep open in your following turn
What to do on your next turn depends entirely on what card you draw. What has happened in previous turns is also relevant; which cards you know are in your opponent's hand, what cards he knows you have, etc.
Holding up Silence and playing Empty for four seems pretty bad because you lose if he has Silence plus anything.
I didn't see it was end of opponents turn. In that case, it's still pretty likely you're going to EtW for a couple of tokens. You don't lose if the opponent has Silence + win, because you just win on your turn. If they have double Silence/Duress+Silence you're losing anyway. I guess you could tutor up a second Silence before playing the EtW. That might be safer.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogboy
I was just reading the premier and in the matchups section it says side in Xantid Swarm but Braynt said they are outdated. What do you bring in instead of those?
Kinda. You have to peel a mana source because you have to burn your Petal or your Mine so you can't just Tutor up Ad Nauseam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
(why is Petal in play?)
Against discard based decks it's often a good play to lay down your artifact mana. That's why petal is in play.
Probably to keep Chant up before he got the mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogboy
Also, most of my combo mirrors where both people have chant comes down to who blinks first. I usually just sit until they try and go for it, chant back and go for it on my turn.
Hi All,
If budgeting is a little bit of an issue for now, could Lotus Bloom be used in Diamond's stead or is there a closer alternative all while trying to keep the deck tight
Lotus Bloom is terrible. If you don't have Diamonds, play another deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryl417
LEDs are essential for this deck in so many ways... they cannot be replaced.
+1. Lion's eye is irreplaceable. The only budget change you could make in this deck is replacing chants with silences.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Thanks for clearing up my doubts guys
I think if you want to go back to Bryant's older list without fetchlands and playing Simian Spirit Guides, you could probably use painlands instead of duals. Then he can buy the LED'sQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia_Bot
Still in the process of learning how to play this deck efficiently/effectively, I tested the deck in MWS(done playtesting with my peeps yesterday). Got screwed by Countertop 0-2, then tried it against UGB landstill as well.
G1. my first attempt got stopped by cunning wish --> mind break trap(even after I tutored for 1 more duress to have 3 duress in my hand). but managed to go off again after a few turns to go tendrils. (prior to it, i tutored for 1 more silence to have 2 silence in my hand) It went like this:
silence(he counterspells, 6 land tapped out after he played Jace 2.0 the previous turn), silence again(he forces), petal,petal, LED, tap u.sea, Burning wish(cracking LED in resp for BBB) --> tendrils for 18(he was down to 18 at that point).
SB G2. it came to a point that I have 3 lands in play(2 U.sea and a Volcanic island), and duress, pyroblast, BW, 2 petals and LED at hand. He has 5 cards in hand with 2 mishras and 1 tropical island in play.I'm down to 14 and he's down to 18.
I led with Duress first, he responds with brainstorm after that which i pyroblasted. He has pernicious deed, counterspell, FOW and Jace. I chose FOW. petal, petal, LED, BW (crack LED in response for RRR) ---> ETW for 16. the tokens got there as he was not able to draw any black source at all. (I think I got Very lucky at this)
I would like to ask questions if this was applied in real life playtesting:
1) during G1, is it sensible to tutor for additional protection(was in a dilema for turing duress or LED at that point) ?
2) during G2, was pyroblasting his brainstorm the correct play?
3) I was in a dilema again of whether going for a Tendrils for 16 or ETW for 16. What would you do at this point? Or should I have not tried to go off and waited for 1 or 2 turns instead? I realize I can't go for IGG on the next few turns because he has FOW and spell pierce in his GY unless I draw a silence or orim's..
hoping to learn more from your opinions.