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You could play a couple of Slaughter Games in the SB? They're usually too slow for combo matchups, but if you extract Entreats and have Punishing Fire online for Jace and random snaps/cliques you should be fine.
Pernicious Deeds have been really strong from the SB for me too. Great Entreat insurance and can make it very awkward for them to top/fetch.
I remember winning at least two matches against miracles because of a resolved Deed on the table. And right now it doubles as salvation in the middle of a sea of elemental tokens. I like it.
I'm pretty sure the key for winning miracles is dealing with the Top though, so cards such as Null Rod are amazing (and hey, people can't equip jittes with it in play, or shatter petals, lions eyes, etc!). If you're on the play, always try Thoughtseize/IoK and grab a hold of the top! Keep the Decay at hand for the pesky Counterbalance and you're pretty much set. Hymn to Tourach isn't as strong as before due to blue delve cards, but it should do a number on the deck I believe.
I always sided hymn out when I was playing them in the main against miracles. What they have in hand is not as important as what they have in play or on the top of there deck for the most part. Miracles is one of the main reasons I have krosan grip in the side it deals with top, and batterskull very nicely.
Same, I usually side out two TS on the play and all on the draw too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domri Rade
I can agree on Hymn, but I see no reasoning for cutting TS i nthe matchup. Hymn is still one of the ways jund can build up on card advantage though, and top is Miracles'. If you have to cut something, maybe it be something else than discard.
While I dislike boarding out Thoughtseizes against Miracles, I have done it and there are reasons to do so. Well, reason. Thoughtseize is a fantastic card, but it's not necessarily fantastic against Miracles. When you're looking to keep in your Abrupt Decays and your Lilis and your creatures, when you reach the point where you can't cut anymore Wastelands or Golgari Charms, sometimes it comes down to Thoughtseize just being the weakest card.Quote:
Originally Posted by aluisiocsantos
It's still better than Punishing Fire though, in this MU. Better discarding Entreat than having to find a way to kill tokens.
Hmph... boarding out discard against UW control decks is not really primary thing in a deck where you can't fight things on stack... punishing fires, lighting bolts, maybe scooze are all dead cards against miracles, where thoughtseize, hymn to tourach, liliana of the veil, abrupt decay, bloodbraid elf, dark confidant are greatest - yes, cripling their hand reduces their options after all. After sideboard, 2-3 pyroblast, additional discard, pithing needles, slaughter games, krosan grips, surgical extraction / extirpates are tools you want. I'm playing jund very long time (generaly rock based decks), but I'm also long time miracle player and i know i don't like when someone durdle with my hand :). Yes - i can have Jace in play, counterbalance and top in play without cards in hand and keep game in my favor, but it doesn't mean it's always like that. Btw., i don't like boarding some number of wastelands out too, because, it can come handy if they stuck with some nonbasic lands in play.
This is my list played 2 weeks ago on local tournament (6 rounds tournament, draw with GBW nic fit, won against miracles, 2x won against uwr delver, won against dredge, then lost in finals vs. team america.):
4x deathrite shaman
4x dark confidant
3x tarmogoyf
3x bloodbraid elf
1x scavenging ooze
4x thoughtseize
3x hymn to tourach
3x liliana of the veil
4x lightning bolt
3x punishing fire
3x abrupt decay
1x sylvan library
1x maelstrom pulse
4x wasteland
3x grove of the burnwillows
4x verdant catacombs
3x wooded foothils
1x bloodstained mire
2x bayou
2x badlands
1x taiga
2x swamp
1x forest
sb:
2x duress
3x pyroblast
1x slaughter games
2x surgical extraction
2x graffdigger's cage
1x pithing needle
1x ancient grudge
1x toxic deluge
1x pernicious deed
1x golgari charm
vs miracles sdeboarding:
-1 scooze
-4 bolt
-3 p fire
- 1 groove of the burnwillows
+2 dures
+3 pyroblast
+1 slaughter games
+1 pithing needle
+1 surgical extraction
+1 pernicious deed
After boarding, your deck looks like this:
4x deathrite shaman
4x confidant
3x goyf
3x BBE
4x thoughtseize
3x hymn to tourach
3x liliana of the veil
2x duress
3x pyroblast
3x abrupt decay
1x pithing needle
1x sylvan library
1x maelstrom pulse
1x pernicious deed
1x slaughter games
1x surgical extraction
Just put pressure on them but still be patient with your creatures, don't go aggresive route with overextending. Try to have one creature in play attacking, holding other in hand and waiting. Miracles like to exploit full potential with their cards and terminus leaving you far behind and out of gas, and if you stop them in that plan, you surely gonna win.
This is me and my budy playing jund and miracles in casual enviroment (we played with sideboard):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rXLj9j8fe4
:D
There was a National Legacy tourney here in brazil with 118 players, and a Jund player took the 1st place.
http://i.imgur.com/6Wo9OaB.jpg
You can see the coverage here, go towards the end of the video to see the finals, vs UR delver.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G4ddhKARUk#t=30840 towards 8:34:00.
EDIT: Oh, there was actually 2 Junds in top 8. 5 Jeskai Blade lol
the decklists
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2784692&type=1
Punishing Fire is very strong against Miracles. It is a Jace removal engine, late game you can chain them together to wipe out entreats, and over a long game it is a win condition.
Keeping in an overwhelming amount of discard against them is not good, they play off the top of their deck much better than any other deck. I like keeping Thoughtseizes but Hymns gotta go.
Only problem with seize, what card can miracles play (commonly) do you actually care about, with hymn you're getting a 2 for 1 and generating card advantage in your favor
I'm 100% sure you're going to win any miracles match if you can Thoughtseize their Divining Top.
Punishing fires are awful against creatureless decks. I'm sure you don't want rely on p. fires against resolved entreat :rolleyes:. Are you even serious about that? You can kill jace, but of all options which can take care about jace, p. fires is the worst one, because they can't kill it on spot sometimes. Anyway keeping fires in g2 against miracles only because of Jace or maybe 1 clique is wrong thing. Pyroblast, pithing needle, maelstrom pulse and even creatures in play are better choice to combat JTMS in play. Or you can discard it which is the best option. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore
Good luck surviving to your own turn to play your Pulse against Entreat. Maybe discard it oh wait it's on the library.
Punishing Fires is good against decks that do nothing but durdle all game and rely on Walkers to win.
Taking out 3 Fires and replacing them with 1 Needle isn't going to work, and I'd rather save the Needle for Sensei's Top. Terminus against your creatures is their main path to victory anyway.
I wish my miracles opponents only did entreat for one. How do you survive x=3 by using punishing fire?
Here's the deal man: rntreat is in the top BECause of slinning top. Your post board has to solve the Sensei top problems, not the entreat one.
I'm not sure if you guys are aware, but this Jund deck runs several copies of both Grove of the Burnwillows and Punishing Fires. Miracles games tend to go late. It's not uncommon to have a bunch of mana on the board when they feel comfortable (or are forced) to go for the kill with Entreat.
The Brazilian list is great. 2 tops main list with 4 Dark Confidants and 4 red blasts for the blue heavy meta. No BBE because UR Delver doesn't let you get there. A Maelstrom Pulse to handle unpredictable things.
My hat is off to the person who designed that. It's next level Jund for this meta.
I'm going to sleeve that up and take it on Friday for my local tourney. It's really an inspired list.
So they took the REB idea I posted and took it to thebvery edge? It's deep but I approve.
That brazilian list is a beuti. The 4 blasts 2 chokes and chains against blue decks. The tops looks perfect for game ones you don want to draw the blasts. Being almost preboarded againt blue isnt really that far fetched when 8 of 10 decks are blue.
Choke is another thing that works fine. I don't know if 4 REBs MD are the way to go.
Especially against Miracles. It is their white cards that are a problem. Other than Chains (and even that's not 100% effective), I don't know.
As I said, it's probably better to have Garruk / Koths, and win before they can. Those cards (usually) dodge Terminus.
Also, they are FUN. That's another thing :).