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Burn is slightly underpowered by Legacy standards, so if you play it you should have a good reason. The slots past bolts&blasts should be tech to give you an edge or save you against the one thing you fear. If no tech comes to mind that sounds better than bolt-wannabes, you need to ask yourself why you aren't playing something more powerful in the first place.
Magma Jet is more acceptable to fill the last remaining slots because at least it can find your tech when needed.
The reason I'm playing Burn is cause I'm a budget player and my only other deck, mono-blue Solidarity, is not very good in the meta here for SCG San Jose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iranon
There are two things I fear. The first is Counterbalance, for which I keep Vexing Shusher in the sideboard (there is nothing I can do about it maindeck). The second thing is having to watch as my opponent kills me because I ran out of burn spells, which Magma Jet is usually best at helping me out with. I agree that Grim Lavamancer would also be useful here, but it is vulnerable to creature removal.
I have found that Magma Jet is about the best option for library manipulation and I play 4, but if you feel the need for further slots dedicated to it I would use Sensei's Divining Top x1. If you're worried about creature removal hitting your Grim Lavamancers, try out Cursed Scroll. I am currently playtesting it x1 in the deck. You don't want too many slots dedicated to it, really only 1. I have found you can have 1-2 flex slots in burn, but that's about it. (I'm sure most would agree with me on that one.)
Magma Jet is damage-wise the 'worst' card in my deck. Everything else deals 3+ damage. This is where you want to be, with maximum damage potential from each card.
I ran into Chalice of the Void @1 turn 1 last night with my zoo deck...that sucks! What are people using for artifact hate in the sideboard? Smash to Smithereens, Ancient Grudge, Meltdown?
I would say the best artifact hate options are going to be Smash to Smithereens, Shattering Spree, and Crash. If you're in green you can run Grip though sometimes that's way too slow against Chalice, but still works if you've got it for say Counterbalance.
I used to play 3 copies of incinerate in my build and now i'm down to 2 and I'm trying to find something else to replace the incinerate. it's not a bad burn spell per say but the problem lies in that it's stuck in a group of 2cc burn spells and all the other 2cc burn spells in the deck do so much more. Price of Progress can deal at least 4 damage and Magma Jet helps you setup your future draws. What happens a lot of times is that I end up wanting to play the Price or Magma Jet first and the Incinerate just ends up being unused in my hand. It also doesn't feel very "right" on the mana curve. I can't really explain it but it just feels weird to play incinerate.Quote:
Originally Posted by ummon
Shattering Spree is worse than useless against Chalice @1. Grudge/Grip can be played easily enough by using fetches/duels.
I think in order to have a viable chance of getting out of a Chalice lock, it has to be at 2-3 mana. Echoing Ruin is another possibility, but not as good as Smash to Smithereens. For this reason, I think the only viable option is Crash. It avoids Counterbalance slightly and can be played for 'free' at instant speed.
I noticed Rack and Ruin as well...which can be great if you are facing down Chalice @1 AND Trinisphere. I don't think it's as good as crash though.
Shattering Spree is able to punch through a Chalice @1 - here is why: the initial spell will be countered, the copies won't however, because "replicate" does not copy the (converted) manacost. nice, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
This. Nothing feels better than tapping RRR and casting Spree with double replicate against a Trini and a Chalice @ 1 and axing both of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
Based on those fears, it seems what you want is a recurring damage source at the high end of the curve to dodge Counterbalance. If you run out of burn spells because you need to use them to stay alive, Pulse of the Forge allows you to play the control game adequately. If you run out because controllish decks stabilise on a low life total after disrupting you a little, Sulfuric Vortex may see you through.Quote:
Originally Posted by ummon
Are you playing/considering Keldon Marauders? They still deal 2 damage when eating a removal spell, and many of those are relevant anyway (decks running burn of their own tend to be able to race, plowing their own creature can buy enough time to swing for the win).
Incinerate can only ever hope to be the 'least bad option'. If you're playing burn because it's the least bad deck in budget it's more justifiable than usual - but still seems like not even trying.
I think the 'technical' wording for it would be that the copies are not played but rather put directly onto the stack.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
Minor correction: if Trinisphere is in play, you will have to pay 2RRR to replicate it twice. Trinisphere will STILL cause you to pay2R for Spree...and then you can replicate it if you have the mana to spare. That's a tall order for a low-land deck like burn.
I'm eyeballing Rack and Ruin in order to deal with that kind of Angel/Dragon Stompy setup or Staxx build that uses those 2 in conjunction. In Staxx, you can most likely use it to hose some combination of Chalice/Trini/Staxx.
No. It costs RRR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Trinisphere and Shattering Spree
Awesome, thanks for that.
Has anyone run into someone who didn't know how that interaction works (luckily I haven't run into this yet)
I play a lot on MWS...I'm going to get some dumbass scrubs saying it won't work the way the rules state it, lol.
Hey guys, I'm relatively new to these forums (ignore the join date :p) and to Legacy as well. I was hoping I could get a little feedback and help on my deck. Here's the list I run:
Creatures [8]
4 Goblin Guide
4 Keldon Marauders
Spells [32]
4 Chain Lightning
3 Fireblast
2 Incinerate
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Price of Progress
4 Rift Bolt
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Volcanic Fallout
Lands [20]
20 Mountain
Sideboard [15]
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pithing Needle
4 Ratchet Bomb
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Volcanic Fallout
It's a pretty basic deck, but it's served me well. At the place I've started playing Legacy I always make top 8, several of those times going undefeated, but then I lose in the first round of top 8. My biggest problem is Storm, which I know is a horrible match up, but I'd still like to do whatever I can to get the edge on them. Also, my store has a VERY diverse meta, and I haven't gotten the chance to play against some of the decks I'd like to to get experience with them.
Pyrostatic Pillar makes things a little difficult for storm, so if you want to have a chance at that matchup, you can replace Mindbreak Trap with it (when I play my combo deck, I've found Mindbreak Trap easy to play through). Personally though, I have given up on the storm matchup for burn and leave those sideboard slots open to improve other matchups.
The only thing I find wrong with your maindeck is that you only play 3 Fireblasts. You run the full 20 Mountains and 4 Magma Jets like I do, and I rarely have a problem finding mountains to sack for the Fireblasts, even if I get them in multiples. I would suggest -1 Incinerate +1 Fireblast.
Obviously, the exact proportions of Price of Progress, Sulfuric Vortex, and Volcanic Fallout (or Flamebreak) depends on your meta, but if it is a diverse meta, your split looks about right, and it seems to be working since you keep making top 8.
Thanks, I really appreciate it. I'll make the changes to my deck and see how things work out this Wednesday ^^
Especially on MWS that is bound to happen, but generally I haven't had any issues with that. Spree has been my go to spell for being super flexible and handling multiple artifacts without much issue. I do wish it dealt damage ala Smash to Smithereens, but in my opinion I find that spree's flexibility outshines the damage output.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
However, in retrospect. No one plays stax in my meta anymore, and usually I'm the only one that plays Dragon Stompy, so it's not like i'm blowing up multiple artifacts on a regular basis anymore. I probably could make that switch, just haven't seen the need yet.
It's been a long time since I tinkered with burn but two thoughts immediately come to mind. One, there's no reason to ever run Incinerate. The only decks that are ever going to straigt race you are Belcher and Tendrils Storm and in every other circumstance, Flame Rift is just superior. Second, why no Shard Volley if you're not running Barb Rings? Burn's biggest asset is its speed; the better your mana to damage ratio is, the faster you win. You don't need to have permanents, you just need to have 18 or 19 damage. I'm not a fan of 4 because of Fireblast, but there should be 2ish I think.
I actually did try out Shard Volley and it just didn't work out for me. Perhaps I was playing them wrong, but more often than not the land sacrifice just bent me over. They were most certainly my last played spells, but I don't know, I just seem to have bad luck with draws when it comes down to the important stuff like 5Ks. I can win FNMs all day long, but when I get into a 5K or States or something similar my deck always seems to hate me. This seems to be the case with this tournament as well because it's not booster packs or anything like that on the line, it's $25 store credit ($100 actually but usually split by top 4), and they sell singles. So because of that I tried to make the deck as safe as possible by limiting things that could be dead draws, especially in top deck mode, or things that could end up just hurting me right out.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeyMikey
I went 4-4 in the SCG San Jose open, and will writeup a tournament report tomorrow. I didn't exactly get easy matchups, playing Spring Tide my first match and two Dredge decks in a row later (which I had no hate in my sideboard for), along with something like Eva Green.
I did manage to win a Countertop matchup though. :)
This is my current list. I've only played it once in tournament play. I went 3-1 to take down my locals for $30.
Creatures: 8
4 Goblin Guide
4 Hellspark Elemental
Spells: 33
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Price of Progress
4 Rift Bolt
2 Volcanic Fallout
3 Flamebreak
Lands: 19
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
9 Mountain
1 Taiga
Sideboard: 15
4 Krosan Grip
4 Searing Blaze
1 Volcanic Fallout
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Sulfuric Vortex
Questions? Comments? Concerns?