[Deck] Zoo

True, I wouldn't call choke narrow though. It hits landstill especially and countertop/bant decks very hard. That's a fairly large % of the meta. Merfolk mu should be pretty good already, even then choke is pretty brutal if you have the pridemage/grip for their vial. Landing choke against a vial-less folk deck is GG. Same for show and tell. If you land choke before the SnT its also GG. Show and tell decks rarely get the T3 show and tell, so you have a good chance of landing it before they go off. They spend the early turns cantripping/tutoring, so landing a choke is pretty devastating. I wouldn't call choke narrow by a long mile. Those who have played against or with choke know how good that card is. Hatfield runs choke in his zoo SB. I would run it too.

I like REB for three reasons:

1 - I hate losing to a 15/15 Alien for 2U.
2 - I can kill War Monks for R.
3 - I can board it in vs. Dredge and hit their speed.

I'm runninng 2-1 REB/Blast split and aways like it (Split because Dredge runs Cabal Therapy).

Both are good, but I believe that 2-3 chokes should be there in addition to REBs. If I were limited to just 3 anti blue slots, I would still play choke because its a GG spell vs blue, whereas REBs, though slightly more versatile, helps but does not win games on its own vs blue. In situation:

1. Vs show and tell, you will almost always land choke before they land the alien. If they have force, tough luck, they would've forced your REB too in that situation. Choke is almost as good in this situation. I don't want to keep my mana open for REB and hurt my own tempo when I suspect they have the combo but they don't.

2. I'd rather have 2G, opponents can no longer play 80% of his spells rather than R destroy target annoying creature. You can easily outgrind any deck that can't cast 80% of their spells.

3. Its better against dredge this I admit. But if you're keeping your mana open for REB and they drop LED/putrid imp/cephalid Colosseum, you are screwed regardless.

@ivanpei:

1 - Choke can be easily Dazed. Also, they can draw go and do nothing with their Islands until turn 3 (BS/Ponder on 1st turn, whatever), cast the Alien and WHO CARES about Islands after that?

2 - It's my turn to admit Choke is better against Counterbalance. I think it's a fine matchup anyway, being the biggest problems Rhox and CB, where REBs solve both.

3 - If it happen, you will need the hate grave or a miracle anyway.

Thats a fair argument. I agree with your deductions. I prefer having my counterbalance MU nailed down rock solid especially postboard against a bazillion firespouts/spot removal. IMO show and tell is such a hard MU even with REBs/choke, just like storm combo. IMO I'm assuming you are talking about the burning wish version right? You overestimate their ability to find both Snt and Emrakul by turn 3/4.

I've played against it and I assure you barring a god hand, it is not that easy to assemble that combo. Thats why they play countertop, daze etc to slow you down while they find the combo. They do not have a tutor that finds both components. Burning wish -> firespout is a very common play in that deck. Its a control deck with a combo finish not a crazy fast combo deck. Against this slower version, you can slowroll your choke too and not walk into daze.

Anyway, I agree to disagree. At worse, the 3 Mind break traps in the board can be REBs if I don't see much storm but more blue.

I think the problem here is conclude what "Counterbalance MU" is. I mean, if they have RWM and Spout, I think it's THE REAL nightmare, maybe even worse than any kind of Storm Combo. The Martell CB is fine, and Pro Bant is all about racing. I don't know if it's just me, but for now I'm planning abandon this matchup, because this meta looks really bad for Counterbalance because their matchup versus GX Vengevines and Merfolks.

Here in Brazil the most common versions of SnT are that with Sneak Attack (and Basic Mountains) and UBx (Both with and without Doomsday). I never see the thread about Emrakul decks and never see Burning Wishs in those, so IMHO its a fast combo with control protection, much like Flash with sumoning sickness.

My sideboard looks like:

3 Ranger of Eos (For mirror, grabbing Wild Nacatl/Figure of Destiny, and for Vial Aggro, where Lavamancers are hot)
2 KGrip (versus CB, Survival, Stax, Enchantress... Pretty obvious here)
2 Gaddock Teeg (Control sutff and Combo)
2-1 Pyro/REB split (As I said before + Merfolk)
1 Karakas (Not sure if needed, I think I'm beeing a pussy here)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (Aggro mirrors)
3 Flex Slots (Pithing Needle, White Leyline, Mindbreak Trap, Canonist, Shusher, meta options)

I see, your SB is geared towards emrakul decks. No worries, that looks like a very solid anti Snt/sneak attack/doomsday SB. Mine is tailored for a more all rounded meta. My definition of all rounded is something like: 30% tribal (folk/gobbos), 20% Countertop/Jacestill, 20% Bant Aggro/New horizons, 20% Zoo, 10 % Combo (storm, dredge, reanimator, Snt, enchantress/survival).

Big Zoo beats tribal, big zoo beats the zoo mirror, so nothing for those. 6 Storm hate cards with Teeqs and traps, 3 (Relic/crypt) For grave combo, 3 anti blue (choke). 3 Grip for countertop, equipment, survival, enchantress.

I think giving up against supreme blue is unwise. Especially if you can rape them with a resolved choke. Just bait forces with sylvan libraries/kotrs etc. :) Then it becomes a cake walk.

Read: http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...rnal-festival/

245 players and zoo is deck 1 :O


decklist:

•4 Wild Nacatl
•3 Noble Hierarch
•2 Figure of Destiny (is this so good than, I would go like saito says one more lavamancer atleast?)
•2 Grim Lavamancer
•4 Tarmogoyf
•4 Qasali Pridemage
•4 Knight of the Reliquary
•2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
•4 Lightning Bolt
•4 Swords to Plowshares
•2 Path to Exile
•1 Umezawas Jitte
•2 Sylvan Library

23 land:
•1 Forest
•1 Plains
•1 Mountain
•2 Plateau
•2 Savannah
•2 Taiga
•4 Arid Mesa
•4 Wooded Foothills
•2 Windswept Heath
•2 Wasteland
•1 Karakas
•Sideboard
•3 Pyroblast
•3 Pyrostatic Pillar --> quite cool, but don't you get a lot of damage yourself :O?
•2 Price of Progress --> When I played big zoo I missed those
•2 Krosan Grip
•2 Tormods Crypt
•1 Bojuka Bog
•1 Red Elemental Blast
•1 Gaddock Teeg

Quite a cool deck, also karakas is very interesting I think with kotr^^
But I'm still not sold on big zoo, I'm going to test it more once i've got time lol..

wow, i better suit up my Zoo deck again cause this version looks funner than the fast Zoo version. Elspeths and such in this deck... i wonder if we can take out 1 Elspeth and put in 1 Koth to make the deck funner. Koth would be awesome since it allows you to tap out then untap a mountain to either swing for 4 or to lightning bolt something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BantFTW

•3 Pyrostatic Pillar --> quite cool, but don't you get a lot of damage yourself :O?

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Pyrostatic Pillar is mainly there for the storm matchup, I believe, where the damage you do to yourself is probably insignificant as long as you stay at a higher life total than them. I'm not sure if it makes sense to bring in for any other matchups (it might) and think it's pretty narrow, but as a storm player, I can tell you that I hate playing against it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lordofthepit

Wheel of Sun and Moon allows the Madness player to get infinite Rootwallas.

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I never ever thought of that. Good one.

Note the 3x Noble Hierarch in that 1st place list! Wasteland too, clearly they're decent in Zoo.

So have you made that new thread about Big Zoo? I'm kinda looking forward to it

It seems to be the consensis that anything other than traditional Naya zoo in this thread is an insult to all humanity.

I'm trying out a faster version of zoo because my meta is full of Storms and Vengevine decks and the more standard version loose a lot to this kind of decks, goblins and merfolks remain good matches but bant and the other two versions of zoo (standard and big) are bad because they have many big guys and sword to plowshares is out of question in this version. Is there any other creature removal efective (i tought on submerge but the blue splash seems awkward)

Any comments on this list are welcome.

4 Wooded Foothils
4 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain

4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Quasali Pridemage

4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
2 Fireblast

4 Chain Lightning

2 Sylvan Librarie

sb:
3 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Price of Progress
1 Krosan Grip
2 Tormods Crypt
1 Grim Lavamancer

4 Goblin Guides doesn't make the deck faster. You'll need to max out on 11/12 fetchlands and squeeze in 4 Steppe Lynxs to turn it into more of a speedy Zoo varient. Suggestions to do so:

-1 Mountain/Savannah +2 Windswept Heath

-2 Kird Ape/2 Fireblast +4 Steppe Lynx

Kird Ape is vanilla, and while consistently a 2/3 for R, you are trying to be faster and even more aggressive. Fireblast, while a good finisher, and great with KotR (which isn't present), is simply the next card to cut I think.

The sideboard is your own, I don't know the meta in which you play. Yet this should speed the deck up a little bit. Helix might be an all-star for you against other agro matchups where you might likely run out of gas before they're dead. I was considering cutting that but that life gain is huge, especially in the mirror where you are already slightly faster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jandax

4 Goblin Guides doesn't make the deck faster. You'll need to max out on 11/12 fetchlands and squeeze in 4 Steppe Lynxs to turn it into more of a speedy Zoo varient. Suggestions to do so:

-1 Mountain/Savannah +2 Windswept Heath

-2 Kird Ape/2 Fireblast +4 Steppe Lynx

Kird Ape is vanilla, and while consistently a 2/3 for R, you are trying to be faster and even more aggressive. Fireblast, while a good finisher, and great with KotR (which isn't present), is simply the next card to cut I think.

The sideboard is your own, I don't know the meta in which you play. Yet this should speed the deck up a little bit. Helix might be an all-star for you against other agro matchups where you might likely run out of gas before they're dead. I was considering cutting that but that life gain is huge, especially in the mirror where you are already slightly faster.

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I already test the Steppe Lynx and on paper he seems great but in games in a list with only 20 lands he doesnt work, the KOTR is needed for him to be efective and KOTR is to slow for my metagame. What i really need is something that can deal with big guys if there is such a thing for this deck.

Thank you for your sugestions

@Pingu, I've got this list:

20 lands:
2x horizon canopy (not sure of them)
1x savannah
2x taiga
2x plateau
3x basics
3x wooded foothills
4x windswept heath
3x arid mesa

4x wild nacatl
3x kotr
4x qasali pridemage
4x goyf
3x grim lavamancer
2x kird ape and 2x loam lion
--> I've played Steppe Lynx first, it comes in for damage that's true, but if you get it lategame is kinda sucky.
I've prefer kird ape/loam lion also because it can defend, quite important against quite alot of decks these days :)
That's my opinnion.

3x chain lightning
3x price of progress
2x fireblast
4x lightning bolt
4x PTE
2x sylvan library

Sb//
2x gaddock teeg
2x revenous trap
2x REB/pyroblast
2x krosan grip
3x mindbreak trap, they were good for me but maybe Pyrostatic Pillar is better now I think of that :O?
2x tormod's crypt
2x feary macabre

I would really want 3x volcanic fallout in it, gobblins, merfolk, storm with tokens^
So thinking of dropping 3x mindbreak trap and 3x ravenous trap for 2x pyrostatic pillar and 3x volcanic fallout.
The annoying thing is that when playing against RB Gobblins, that they can control your lands, and I always play against
a good goblin player here and lose because of that so idk^^
First I played 1 stp and 3 lightning helix, that was quite good, the life ain't that bad if you only do it one time so maybe that helps :O?

Hi,

First time posting here thought I've been watching the thread for quite a while. Anyways after a long time I decided to bring out a question that has kept me wondering. What to do in the matchup against countertop decks, what cards are good in general and what cards are good sideboard options? Here the metagame has a lot of merfolk which is nice, but in the last tournament 66% of the matches I had to play were against some decks with countertop engine in them. I wouldn't mind at all if someone could give me a general headline about how to play against these decks as well, because my game plan against these decks has been.. hard to follow.

At the moment I don't have a decklist but I have a decent library of cards which allow me to play fast Zoo (with Lynx), traditional Zoo and big Zoo. So far I've been playing fast Zoo, Alix Hatfield's list with minor changes. Anyways, what to do against countertop?

I like that list VERY much. Real Zoo is suppose to be REAL fast and have tons of burn.... in fact so much Burn that we can many times cut half of those going to the dome to their critters to let goyfs and nacatls thru. I'd probably take that 3rd price of progress out though and throw in another chain lightning. my burn list was pretty similar to yours but i didnt run Helix's. If i wanted to run fast Zoo then i usually do it like this:

x4 Wild Nacatl
x4 Tarmogoyf
x4 Qasali Pride Mage (exalted helps alot and makes your goyf bigger than theirs, also good to destroy stuff like counterbalance and such)
x3 Lavamancer
x2 KotR
x2 Jotun Grunt (hes so good VS GY decks and he beats for 4)
x2 Loam Lion (i like him better cause its rare but i seen him still put up aggression in the face of anti-red enchantments and stuff)
x2 Sylvan Library

burn list:
x4 Lightning bolt
x4 chain lightning
x2 PoP
x2 Fireblast
x3 PtE
x2 Volcanic Fallout

This was the list i ran back in Richmond, VA for SCG. my record sucked however as i kept on getting faced with combo and more combo (freaking ANT decks and Reanimator, back when Mystical was still legal) And i ran the fallouts to hit Goblins and Fish FTW of course since my dudes were bigger... all matchs where i went up against Fish or some other aggro deck i won due to me just consistently killing atleast by turn 4

a good hand is this:
Turn 1: fetch, Taiga, play Nacatl
Turn 2: fetch Plateau, play qasali PM, swing for 4 with Nacatl
turn 3 fetch, a basic mountain just in case of wasteland, PtE something if u have to and swing for 5 total, then mainphase2 Goyf or Lavamancer or kotR or something life threatening
Turn 4: Swing with the team, then play a bolt effect or PoP and sac 2 mountains ftw with Fireblast hopefully for lethal.

and this isnt even a Godhand... this is just the regular hand that you can pull off sometimes.

i just like fast Zoo too much to be putting in Elspeths and Noble Hierarchs... maybe i should test the Zoo list that was ran in Japan though.

I have been unimpressed with Price of Progress. It is easy for most people to play around and I always want to get duals. I haven't missed it at all.

As someone who has yet to take a side on the whole "Big Zoo" debate, I have a few thoughts:

I am intrigued by the direction because I think Kird Ape, Loam Lion, and Steppe Lynx are all a bit underwhelming. Lynx is too swingy (it's better in speed zoo and burn), and the 2/3s just don't have the same impact they used to. Figure of Destiny is nice but realistically cannot be played as more than a 2-of. Until we get another 3/3 for 1, Hierarch could be the next best 1 drop.

On the other hand, the mana and exalted from Noble Hierarch is always pretty useful. Being able to play 4 Knights of Reliquary and a couple bombs like Elspeth and/or Jitte is fantastic in the mirror and against other aggro. They also make the deck more resilient to Wasteland/Stifle, which you have to expect.

Altering the burn/removal package too much is a poor idea, however. 4 Bolt/3-4 Chain/4 Path is solid and shouldn't change. Swords are not wanted here since the purpose of Path is to get rid of things burn can't remove (e.g. fat green creatures, Tombstalker, Dreadnought). Giving someone 5-12 life is much more problematic than a basic land (if they have it).

I'm not a huge fan of Wasteland in here either, except maybe as a 1-of to fetch with Knight to get rid of Mazes, Tabernacles, and Glacial Chasms. The deck simply doesn't have a plan to capitalize on mana denial. Most decks that do, play Daze/Spell Pierce or Trinisphere/Chalice. Alternatively, 2-3 Horizon Canopies in a 21 land manabase (+ Hierarchs) is a good idea because it guarantees you'll be able to cast your bombs if you draw them, but also gives you the option to cycle if you don't.

If you try out a "Big Zoo" variation, keep these points in mind.

If anyone's curious what the list I'm testing looks like, here it is:

4 Wild Nacatl
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Figure of Destiny
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning

2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte

3 Horizon Canopy
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain

With 1/1/1 Figure/Espeth/Jitte I have 3 late game bombs but they're diversified, so I never draw doubles. I've commented on why I like Figure so much in the past, so I won't rehash, but the idea is that he swings in for 2 damage past Rhox/Nacatl/mini Goyfs when you have 3 mana open.

Sideboard
3 Pyroblast (not Choke because I want to hard counter Jace and Show and Tell)
2 Krosan Grip
3 Pyrostatic Pillar (according to all my combo playing friends, this is the best option. nothing will stop them except for a faster clock)
3 Price of Progress (lands, control)
2 Tormods Crypt
2 Pithing Needle (Survival, Vial, Jace, EE, P Deed, etc. this card is hot right now)

My burn/removal package currently includes:
4 Bolts
4 Chain
3 Path
2 Fireblast
2 Helix
1 PoP

I was considering testing Arc Trail in place of the Helixes or the PoP. Arc Trail probably seems terrible because it only kills crappy dudes and isn't very effective when applied to the dome etc. There are quite a few relevant creatures it kills though, so you could always hope for the 2 for 1. Clearing the path for your attack is never bad, right?

Like I said, I don't expect this idea to be too well received but I still want to hear what you all think about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fuzzy

@ivanpei:


It's my turn to admit Choke is better against Counterbalance. I think it's a fine matchup anyway, being the biggest problems Rhox and CB, where REBs solve both.

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You don't think the 3 maindeck firespout is the biggest problem against Countertop? Rhox can be pathed, swords or REB. What is your answer for a quick efficient board sweeper?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Demonic_Attorney

You don't think the 3 maindeck firespout is the biggest problem against Countertop? Rhox can be pathed, swords or REB. What is your answer for a quick efficient board sweeper?

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Mark of Asylum, of course.
































No, seriously, there's nothing. For now, I couldn't care less about any deck with bad matchup against Merfolk and UG Madness. My best strategy is just avoid Firespouts in rounds 1-2 and keep winning .

My thoughts exactly, counterbalance will always be a big % of the meta, so its best to be prepared for them. I expect to see counterbalance with firespout even in the top tables. Don't leave home without the chokes. :) I don't really mind when opponents tap out to board wipe with firespout and I drop choke. GG friend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keys

Big Zoo Post

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To keep the heat down, either wait for or make a Big Zoo thread in the other part of the forum. I like your list and have carefully considered your post to implement into my own version of the deck, but folks seem to want this to stay the Traditional Zoo. I'm not hating here, just trying to prevent another page of fuss

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jandax

To keep the heat down, either wait for or make a Big Zoo thread in the other part of the forum. I like your list and have carefully considered your post to implement into my own version of the deck, but folks seem to want this to stay the Traditional Zoo. I'm not hating here, just trying to prevent another page of fuss

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Personally, I'd rather we not create a separate thread. LED and non-LED Ichorid are in different threads and the disconnect is really annoying. Besides, we're really only talking about a difference in 1 card here, so I wouldn't say "Big Zoo" is a new deck, just a slight variation.

I made a new thread in N+D, some discussion there would be cool. @Keys, I agree with alot of what you said, so thanks for knowing your stuff. The only thing we disagree on really is Wasteland, but I see the appeal of an even stronger manabase + Canopies. If you could take your discussion to the Naya Midrange thread, it would clear up confusion here.

I haven't played this deck since long before Columbus, so the meta has changed considerably since than. I've always wanted to try Burning Tree Shaman in this deck, and I think now may be a good time. I know that this was discussed a while ago, but the meta has changed since then. Shaman could get in a lot of damage against Survival, Goblins, and Merfolk.

Is it worth it to include Shaman?

What if anything would have to change about the deck to include Shaman?

Discuss.

BTS is amazing, and I think it could've warranted a spot in the deck for a little while now. I'd run it as a two of alongside KOTR. I don't mind having that many 3cc dudes in my builds though.

Maindeck Pithing Needle has been helping my Zoo list a ton lately. I've been able to steal more games from Survival, shut off Top against Countertop, protect fragile land openings from Wasteland, completely steamroll Goblins by shutting off Vial against mana-light hands, ditto for Merfolk when they don't get two Islands, and I even snagged a game against Belcher where they dropped it but couldn't activate it turn one.

For the record, this is my most updated Zoo list.

4 Arid Mesa
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Forest

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Gaddock Teeg

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Chain Lightning
3 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
3 Sylvan Library
3 Pithing Needle

First time poster here, although i've been reading these threads for a few weeks now.


I specifically made an account to discuss a possible inclusion of Burning Tree Shaman, and guess what, someone posted the same thing a few hours ago :)

I also think that it would probably be ok to maindeck maybe 2-3 BTS in place of the KoTRs, since it will help you push a bit more damage from Survival decks, and not to mention vial decks and divining top decks.

Pithing needles i'm not too sure if i'd go for it maindeck, but due to the prevalence of survival decks, i'd try to squeeze in 3 on my SB.

I've also tried the big zoo lists, it did pretty well but i noticed most of my wins were from openings that are staple traditional zoo lists, and i dont think that it helps the hard matchups by a lot, and there were times the wastelands color screwed me. But then again, i haven't encountered any countertop decks when i was using it, so i'll test further.

BTS has been discussed a few months back for a few pages. Some of us here absolutely adore the guy, others can't see cutting anything for it. It's going to come down to personal preference.

BTS is great for all those things you mentioned above. He's also a decent body for 3 mana. So since there are about as many pros to cons, it sort of comes down to personal preference. However, if all you play against is Survival/Vial decks/CB-Top then BTS is looking pretty good. Especially in the big zoo lists as there is Noble Hierarch to get him out a turn earlier.

I don't agree that Burning Tree Shaman's going to be that big of a help against Survival. It's going to take them, what, five to six activations to launch a full Vengevine combo at you, assuming you get BTS down before they can even start with Survival? Then what? How many times do you think that five to six is going to make the difference when you've got quad Vengevines and two chump blockers on the board? 1 in 5, maybe, being generous, if your burn hand is strong?

And their fetchland activations, as well as your own, become Shocks. Various things in the deck are activated. It just enables a race scenario if you are already packing ten or more burn spells in the main deck.

I wanted to post the Zoo list I have been having success with in my area. It has taken me to a 11-1-1 record in the last two tournaments.

4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Savannah
1 Plateau
2 Taiga
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Figure of Destiny
4 Quasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Terravore

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile

SB
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pithing Needle
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Krosan Grip
1 Path to Exile
2 Umezawa's Jitte

This is obviously more akin to the "Big Zoo" deck, but it has served me well. In my opinion, aggro matchups (and certainly the mirror) are often decided by Knight of Reliquary, and to a lesser extent Tarmogoyf. The Terravore acts as virtual 5th and 6th Knight. The Grove combo, although fairly slow, gives you a solid late game plan against almost any "fair" deck.

The last cards in are the 2 Figure of Destiny. With Hierarch and the upped land count, it is reasonable that you will hit the 6 mana mark to go ultimate. However, it is entirely possible they should be someting like 2 Sylvan Library. I have never had great luck with Library, but I see it in almost ever list. It seems better suited to a so-called "Fast Zoo" list.

Zoo is ever evolving. But this version has been good to me recently. Maybe in the future, it will be better to ratchet up the speed again, but it does not seem worth it at the moment.

For people that have experience playing both Pyrostatic Pillar and Mindbreak Trap, which do you prefer, and why against combo; specifically ANT, Storm, Doomsday, Aluren and Belcher?

There is really only room for one of them in the board and when you are playing 3-4 copies, indeed, one has to get cut.

From a Storm perspective... I am far more irritated by a Pyrostaic Pillar than a Mindbreak Trap. The Trap is alot easier to fight through and dosn't even necessarily impact the game. At least the pillar will net you 2 damage minimum not to mention it is usually more and makes using AdNos nearly impossible if you have any legit pressure during the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nodahero

From a Storm perspective... I am far more irritated by a Pyrostaic Pillar than a Mindbreak Trap. The Trap is alot easier to fight through and dosn't even necessarily impact the game. At least the pillar will net you 2 damage minimum not to mention it is usually more and makes using AdNos nearly impossible if you have any legit pressure during the game.

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Are you saying the MBT is more futile because of Orim's Chant and/ or Silence?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Demonic_Attorney

For people that have experience playing both Pyrostatic Pillar and Mindbreak Trap, which do you prefer, and why against combo; specifically ANT, Storm, Doomsday, Aluren and Belcher?

There is really only room for one of them in the board and when you are playing 3-4 copies, indeed, one has to get cut.

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I like Mindbreak Trap because you don't have to reveal it, which is a valuable edge. Versus TES, they either have to make you discard or go for Ad-Nauseum. It also stops everything that Belcher can throw at you.

With hate bears and leyline, they just have to wish for the Deathmark or bounce. Pyrostatic Pillar is decent since it inflicts some damage no matter what, but it also hurts you, and that can put you in range of a mini Tendrils or small goblin army.