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I have only one very important question:
I am searching for someone who is willing to testplay against me with the following Decks:
Zoo, Merfolk, every Vengevival, TES and Goblins. I amgoing to play in a rather big Tourney on Sunday and I feel that I need more testing against those, if you are willing to do so (or know somebody who is) I would be thankful if we could meet at MWS.
Just write me a message that we can arrange such a meeting.
Thank you
Ok, I told you that I will let you know if I have found out which change in my list is responsible for my good results in the last time. I did some heavy testing in the last days.I played against:
TES, Belcher, Dragonstompy, Faeriestompy, Faeries (Ubr&UB), Loam, Vengevival (UG/GWb), Merfolk (Mono-U), Zoo(Naya Aggro, fast version with at least 11 onedrops), Lands(Classical&New Age Lands), Burn, StaXXX, Landstill (Ubg/UWb), Deadguyale(The Gate, Mono-black-aggro, Classical Deadguyale), Elves(NO/Staff/Fauna Shaman), Can-Thresh, Dreadstill(with Counterbalance), Counterbalance, The Rock (that new one with Goyf, Knight, Vindicate and so on), Affinity and some random guys with more homebrew decks.
Decks that I would have liked to play against but didnt showed up:
Dredge, Goblins, Spring Tide
Results were about 30 rounds (1 round is a whole 2/3) won and about 10 rounds lost. MWS isnt that impressive but thats ok allover I think.
I came to the conclusion that my list, even if it plays out (sometimes very) different, is trying to do/avoid the same things in a game. I try to go off as consistent as possible and sometimes as fast as possible. Cards that help me to realize that plan are less cards that plow through my deck and more cards that (can) give a few turns, in comparison to otherdeck lists.
I asked myself which plan is more effective and better against which deck and tested, tested, tested. Both. The simple answer is:
Both ways do work out well, but have also their disadvantages in front of eachother.
Against some decks I wanted to have a Peer through Depths instead of a Repeal, in some others, I really wanted Repeal badly and wished I had one in my opening hand or on the draw and Peer through Depths would have never played a significant role in the game (even if drawn in meditate) but Repeal has.
Against some I always wanted a Remand, against some it was nearly dead in the early game. 3 Brain Freeze seemed very often too much to me but won me some games that I wouldnt have won with just 2 or 1 in my deck or that single in wishboard.
Sometimes I wanted to have a Hunting Pack but sometimes it would have been an important empty slot in the sb and I really wanted to avoid a Tropical at every point in the game(even if the percentage of beeing vulnerable to it is very low), and was kinda happy that the Hunting Pack didnt tempted me to play with it as a win condition where I could have won more safe with the "normal" kill, even with 3 Eldrazi-Triggers.
I started to think about which card plays which role and supports every other single card in the 75. That leaded (led?) me to the fact, that there is no perfect Solidarity-Version. It depends heavily on your playstyle (you need to feel confident with YOUR deck, copying isnt really a solutuion here) and the meta. Even if copy/pasting is a "solution" to make better results for some decks, this is not true for Solidarity. Dont get me wrong, I dont want to encourage people to play some weird or nonsense-lists (especially new players) but you have to make your own decisions sometimes.
I really hope that I can show you good results or at least some worthy information after my sunday Tournament, till then,
Iatb
I just tried playing Spy Network in place of Opt. I nearly cried it was so amazing.
Imagine that Opt is now an Impulse.
Yeah.
You don't really get to draw the card, but it has a better advantage of showing you the opponents hand, and basically see what your opponent will or ought to play on his following turn. This is huge. If we know the opponents next turn we can better arrange the top 4 cards of our library and play our own spells. Spy Networks aren't particularly great in multiples, while Opts are just alright but thats not a hand you keep, and playing one Spy Network almost ensures that you won't get another, allowing you to dig for BS that way you can actually throw extras back, or just put them on the bottom of the 4 to avoid drawing extra copies. Further, it lets you know if you can go off against an unprotected control player while we are in the dark otherwise and basically must wait for a protection spell. I really like it so far in place of Opt. Opt basically lets us see one card and then blindly draw if we don't like it. Horrid cantrip to be honest. It doesn't really effectively let us keep 1 land hands, while Spy Network does not have that problem at all, digging 4 cards deep to set up your land drop on the following turn. This will allow us to play significantly fewer lands and drop our land count to 19. What do you think?
EDIT:
Did I mention that Spy Network is absolutely amazing at sculpting with Fetchlands, much like Brainstorm only you get to see 4 cards on the top. Opt does not have this advantage, nor can it get mill useless cards with Brainfreeze during the combo turn.
I rather play Ponder then Spy Network, they are both dead when we combo, and drawing cards when we go off are so crucial that it hurts.
I'm not a big fan of Opt either, and only play 2 now days (cut 1 for a Peer Through Depths). If I where about to go up to 19 lands again I would totally cut yet another Opt, but having at least 7 (actually feel that 8 are the "minimum" number but cutting corners seems to be a Solidarity trademark) cantrips with cc1 seems crucial.
Ahh, I am glad that you liked the Super-secret-tech of Spy Network! I have been messing around with it for a while now, and I have found a few of it's strengths and weaknesses:
1) it's extremely strong in an undeveloped metagame. At my LGS, people play essentially random decks each week, and it's incredibly helpful to be able to spy network and get a strong feel for how each opponent will play against me.
2) It's very awkward to use while combo-ing; You have to adjust your playstyle to get used to the fact that it doesn't cantrip and compensate which can be a major liability if you haven't tested with it before
Now I have a question for all of you: How many Spy Network is the right number, if it's run at all? When I used it, I went -1 peek, -1 opt, +2 Spy network and it worked fairly well.
On an unrelated note, would anyone mind posting some tournament reports? I blew out my knee so I won't be able to play Magic for the next few weeks. :(
::Edit:: I have dropped my land count to 19 and the deck runs very comfortably. I highly recommend this change.
I looked at Spy Network when I first picked up the deck. If it cantripped, it would be auto include. Unfortunately, I don't think we can run Spy Network for the same reason we couldn't run Mystical Tutor (before it was banned): we just can't afford the card disadvantage.
Of course, I'd love to be proved wrong; I think it is an awesome, flavourful card.
-Silent Requiem
Edit: If Frantic Search is unbanned I could see Spy Network being worth another look. Without the need to draw a fourth land, but having one turn less to find the combo pieces, Spy Network could be a very efficient use of our turn 1 mana.
What is your list?Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Requiem
I am right back from the tournament this Sunday, I'll post a detailed tournament-report when the homepage is updated so I can give some more details and statistics.
@I am the brainwasher: looking forward to it!
@Bannings/Unbannings: Anyone has any idea how this may affect the deck?
More Counterbalances? More need to splash for Krosan?
Hopefully this will lead to more Spring Tide, a MU that Solidarity win. Most likely this will take us back a year in the meta, so CB/Top and Merfolk...Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Time to start the big ban whine about counterbalance. CB kills our pet deck.
I was kind of worried about this matchup now that you have access to Time Spiral, but then I checked the thread and everyone was talking about Spy Network.
So no worries.
[Please don't run Spy Network, for your sake.]
Solidarity dont have access to Time Spiral.
If we played quicken sure we could play time spiral...but without quicken, time spiral is worthless to us. Spring tide, on the other hand, is VERY good with time spiral I was testing a Ug list of spring tide today and it can win on turn 3 very consistently. Only problem is wasteland.
Spy network is interesting. I considered it at one point, then decided not to use it because it's card disadvantage. I would rather play peek personally. It cantrips and shows you their hand; if you're really worried, do it on their end of turn step, find out all the cards in their hand -1 that one card being the card they draw next turn. Then again you can cast high tide in their upkeep then let them draw for turn but if you have italian resets for the love of god don't try to cast them during their upkeep without a turnabout in your hand. It'll ruin you.
Please provide some justification for your opinions or just shut up. Troll elsewhere. I was Brainstorming over different cards to stimulate discussion and improve the deck. All you are doing is wasting time. Besides, if conventional card choices were the only ones that were taken seriously in threads like these, decks wouldn't see any innovation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
Time Spiral makes me very happy. Can't wait to play with it. Does anyone have Ideas for a list? We can probably play Quicken to resolve it.
Its simply too strong a card not to try. I see the potential for more successful turn 3 combo attempts with this card. Draw 7 cards and untap even 4 or 5 lands would be enough to set the deck over the combo turn.
For a list of solidarity incorporating time spiral I suggest going -4 opt, -2 cunning wish, -1 Turnabout, +4 time spiral, +3 quicken, and remove something else in the list to incorporate the 4th high tide since cunning wish as a 2 of to wish for high tide seems sub optimal. The 4th quicken could go in the wishboard though. I'm not sold on quicken + time spiral in solidarity though the card seems a lot more broken in spring tide. Which is what I personally will be playing january 1st because the list I have together is pretty disgusting IMO.
The only way we should resolve Time Spirals with Solidarity is to help the Spring Tide guys build a modern version of their deck, and then Twincast their Spirals. =)
I can't see any valid points to lose the big upsides of Solidarity for splashing a sorcery in this deck.
Time Spiral's unbanning can only be positive for Solidarity; now there will be opponents running High Tides and Time Spirals, and I will be hijacking their combo turns all day long. I won't be putting the sorcery into my deck, but I'll definitely be using it to my advantage. Can anyone else envision how powerful Twincast will be??!!!
I don't like Spy Network because I'm constantly reaching for card advantage during the combo turn, and this spell doesn't actually even cantrip. Sure, if you're setting up, it's a good tool. But if you need gas when you're comboing, it doesn't help much at all. I have been testing it a little bit, and it has caused me a lot of frustration. If I'm going to play something that sets me up and looks at my opponent's hand, I'm going to cast a Peek. If I'm going to play something that doesn't actually cantrip on its own, I'm maindecking some kind of countermagic like Spell Snare/Spell Pierce, which definitely can help the match-ups where you want to be spying on your opponent's hand.
You don't even need to twincast their Time Spirals, if the meta is Spring Tide heavy, I can only imagine how powerful Solidarity is against Spring Tide.meta when just go off after you let their High Tide resolve and use their High Tide to win since they cannot do anything to you when you have total control of the stack war.
Spring Tide: High Tide
Solidarity: Resolves
Spring Tide: cast spell
Solidarity: In response win with your High Tide.
God that is so hot. lol
Yeah, spring tide can't beat a competent solidarity player unless they go off on turn 2 but then if we remand their untap effect it's a major blowout. The longer the game goes the better it gets for solidarity lol. They have so many sorceries in their lists that are useless and they can't control the stack like we do. Although whether spring tide see's a lot of play remains to be seen. Twincasting their time spiral just seems hilarious though lol. Not to mention spiral even if we don't twincast it gives us 7 new cards to play with; what we do in response to their time spiral would be float a ton of mana, play all the resets, turnabouts, and cunning wish for turnabout, to net tons of mana then get 7 new cards with all that mana :evilgrin:
Looks like our deck just got better. If Spring Tide becomes more prominent, we will beat the shit out of it and go off in response or twin cast their Time Spiral for the win. Given this is the case, we ought to run some Twin Casts in the maindeck again.