[DTB] Sneak Attack

I prepare myself for a oncoming big Event here in Greece, with prize a Time Walk for the first place, and a Timetwister for the 2nd. My current sideboard is this :

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
for Reanimator, Dedge, Ad Nauseam...

SB: 1 [TSP] Wipe Away
for Blazing Archon, Ensnaring Bridge, Peacekeeper...

SB: 3 [IA] Pyroclasm
for Goblins, Maverick, Elves, Jund...

SB: 2 [LG] Karakas
for Maverick, Reanimator...

SB: 3 [TO] Overmaster
for BUG mostly and for other heavy counter decks

SB: 3 [5E] Pyroblast
Counter decks such BUG and Omni-Tell.



And my maindeck is this :

// Lands
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [B] Volcanic Island
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
3 [UNH] Island
2 [EX] City of Traitors
1 [UNH] Mountain

// Creatures
4 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [AVR] Griselbrand

// Spells
4 [M10] Ponder
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [US] Sneak Attack
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [TE] Intuition
4 [NE] Daze
3 [MM] Misdirection

It is my personal choice to run All-Free counters (4 FoW, 4 Daze, 3 MisD), to protect my combo mainly, than counter my opponent's demi-threats.
I raise my number to 61, by adding 1 more Intuition. These 3 slots are also the first candidates for sideboard. Overmaster, Pyroclasm and Pyroblast. That's why I have 3 of them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by defector

@Pavlaugh: I like it. Its a different take, I would like to see a 4th emrakul, but other than that looks good for no petals. I really like top at least in theory, but at the same time I cant ever seem to get it into any list I make. You sir are a better man than I:)) I think you cant run both top and petal and support a high enough blue count for fow and snt. Im still committed to petal, but best of luck withyour approach!

@georgjorge B wish is interesting but I dont buy the daze argument and I think its too important to hard cast sneak attack to go to two. Also doesnt it really hurt your fow count? Idk looks neat, but not convinced. Why not up your snt with a personal tutor or 2 main?

General question: I have yet to come up with a sb strat that I can be proud of. Does the heavy discard in the meta right now require leyline of sanctity? I really hate that card, hate it, hate it. My current sb:
Leyline X4
Boseiju X3
Echoing Truth X3
Flusterstorm X3
Through the Breach X2

My line of reasoning is leyline jund/bug. Boseiju vs esper/miracles. Echoing truth goes in if e bridge/humility etc are on the horizon. Fluster vs storm and ttb for mirror. Implicit bets with this board is that ill beat dredge with the first 60 and flat out lose to reani. Any criticism/input would be great. I dont think snt decks side very gracefully so any advice/ibsight would be appreciated.
Cheers

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Normally side in-out depends to main and side that we have.
For my family I haven't time to go far to play some big event, so I play in some little tournements , with this list and I have lose few match :

Creatures [9]

1 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand

Instants [15]

1 Intuition
2 Misdirection
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Pierce

Sorceries [10]

2 Preordain
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell

Enchantments [4]

4 Sneak Attack

Artifacts [4]

4 Lotus Petal

Lands [18]

1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
1 Volcanic Island
2 City of Traitors
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Island
4 Scalding Tarn

side:
3 Defense Grid
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Boseiju
2 Wipe Away
3 Grafdigger's Cage

no 4Th emrakul:
- I want to reduce died card
- I want to control blue count
- Normally I want to show griselbrand instead of emrakul (emrakul only in first/second turn, in the other time is only the finisher)

1 Simian Spirit Guide:
5th petal to increase possibility to cast a bomb one turn before and don't destabilize mana base, so it's perfect

Counter count: it's good for this meta with miracle, bug, esper, rug. Daze make a good job for fist second and third
turn. If opponent tap out we have and hard counter free with 1 card and I like it to my aggressive style to play with 10 cantrip to search combo.

Side I think we start to:
- 3 grid vs rug ur with much post side counter
- 4 leyline vs bug (it hits edict's effects, vendilion , discard's effect and vs storm it's an auto-win if our oppo don't buoncer it . Vs storm it's enought for me. Griselbrand win the race vs eventually token)
- 3 Boseiju vs esper and miracle and bug control (wiyh cascade) that play only 2 waste and don't use cantrip.

Others slot are moody. With this meta we can play without hate grave, but it's a risk however.
Some bouncer . I don't need to Flusterstorm X3 becuse it's better grid vs other fluster /reb/pierce (only with 1 card),
Through the Breach X2 I don't need if only in mirror, and I playing ony 3 emrakul it'snt best trick:tongue:

Side:
rug out 1 intuition 2 pierce in 3 grid
bug control (with cascade, baleful strix) in 3 bosiju 4 leyline 2 wipe away out 3 ancient 3 daze 2 ponder 1 brainstorm
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...9&iddeck=72668
Because it's a long match and he play much hate so I need also to wipe away. In this mu leyline it's a must to a good play.
bug delver in leyline out 1 intuition 2 pierce 1 preordain
miracle out 3 ancient 1 intuition 1 island in 3 bosiju 2 wipe away
esper in 3 boseiju

Bye

Thanks for the replies regarding Burning Wish. After some more testing, I'm really on the fence about Wish vs Attack. There are obviously situations where Attack is needed, but I've also had enough hands with three or four non-Sol lands and Wish where Sneak Attack either wouldn't have been castable or would have been too slow, while second turn Wish into third turn Show was fast enough. Sneak Attack is essentially a three-card combo of Attack + creature + Sol land/Petal, it's usually too slow for me without the third part. Thus being able to reduce the number of slots for Sol lands for more cantrips and protection while still being fast enough is great. And I quite like Raze in the wishboard against Karakas. More testing...

You're right about Daze + Wish of course, but I'm really not impressed with either Pierce or Daze. Pierce is decent against discard but not so hot in counterwars where you often don't have the extra mana against their Pierces and Dazes.

On Leyline: I find it to be great. I don't get why people think you have to mulligan to it anymore than to any other sideboard card? Against either storm combo or discard - where Leyline is used - any countermeasure you need will have to be online within the first two turns or so to be effective, so you really don't get that many draw steps anyway to draw into it (save for countermeasures that recover discarded cards like Recall).

I'm not so sure about Boseiju, which either gets Wastelanded a lot or comes so late that the life loss is a liability, but I haven't been able to come up with anything better for counterwars yet. Going to try out Defense Grid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by georgjorge

. . .I'm not so sure about Boseiju, which either gets Wastelanded a lot or comes so late that the life loss is a liability, but I haven't been able to come up with anything better for counterwars yet. Going to try out Defense Grid.

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I've tried Boseiju as well in other decks for the same purpose. Yup, it either gets Wasted or you can't find it. Defense Grid is nice, but is usually met with Force. But it IS a "You either Force this or I roll you" kind of card. Given the choice, I'd take the Grid over Boseiju.

Didn't do so hot at Jupiter yesterday, but I did get to hardcast Emrakul in game 1 vs. re-animator. I just kept drawing counters and lands, strange how I got to 15 mana without seeing a sneak attack, and the one time I cast S&T we both put in Griselbrand.

Boseiju and Grid seem to serve different purposes. I like Grid against RUG because they have few post s&t/sneak threats for us to counter. I like Boseiju (or the idea of it) against control decks not running wasteland. I don't even know if I would side Grid in against most control decks. They seem to play more post-s&t/sneak threats that I want to be able to counter. Do y'all running grid board it in against UW control / miracles / helm control?

Also, making echoing truth uncountable (rather than just pay 3-5 to counter) seems good. But I lack the experience playing against control.

Finally got some games in with Boseiju and it won me a series vs Miracles, uncounterable e truth on d sphere and then i was able to combo out. My current sb: boseiju x3 fluster x3 blood moon x3 grafdiggers x3 e truth x3. Its redundant and decently resilient against esper/miracles i bring in 6 cards 3 boseiju 3 truth. Other mu typically just 3 best suited cards. Its not ideal, but i can live with it. Snt decks are weak when it comes to boarding and im just trying to be zen about it. J think some gy disrupt is necessary as dredge is pretty close and reani is pretty bad. The truths go in a lot complimenting whatever set of 3 i feel is best. I almost always bring 2 in every g2 where i suspect some snt specific hate. Its not great but im getting comfortable with it. I would like some pyroclasm action though. I cut ttb and went with e truths instead. The only snt cards i am really weak against is angel and gilded drake. D sphere and humility and o ring are all manageable with e truth. Blood moon could be pyroclasm, not sure how much to fear karakas with kotr down and liking pyro a lot vs jund.

Another top finish of the deck :)

1st place Reginald Go with Sneak & Show
main deck:
4 sneak attack
4 show and tell
4 emrakul, the aeons torn
4 griselbrand
4 force of will
4 lotus petal
2 daze
2 repeal
2 misdirection
2 flusterstorm
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
1 intuition
4 misty rainforest
4 scalding tarn
3 volcanic island
2 city of traitors
3 ancient tomb
2 island
1 mountain

sideboard:
1 wipe away
1 echoing truth
1 spell pierce
2 grafdigger's cage
2 red elemental blast
2 blood moon
2 through the breach
2 shattering spree
2 pyroclasm

Out of 45+ People :)

Congratulations. :))))
Let me ask you a question. .. Are Repeals really a good addition to the deck? Are you satisfied with them? Are 2 of them enough? I are you run a single Intuition... would you change it for a third Repeal?

Not my deck but it serves as a flexible bounce and cantrip. You can bounce your petal for cantripping or bounce problem permanents like Ensnaring Bridge and the like :)

I've played with and without Repeal and I think its a fine card. As the delver population increases it gets better, but even with lower delver counts id stil encourage anyone to test it.

Repeal is definitely fine because maindeck bounce is sometimes nice to have and it's never useless. However I have to admit I still prefer preordain in these spots for consistency reasons.

One question I have about the decklist is the 2 dazes. How do everybody feel about playing 2 dazes?
I've tried them myself in the past and always felt I would be better off either playing 4 of them or playing spell pierce/fluserstorm/misD in their place.

I am impressed about Dazes. I use 4 of them maindeck of course and I can't find a single reason to replace them. But as I said before it's my personal choice to play only with free counters. Daze, Force of Will, Misdirection.

I'm not kidding... Dazes winning games.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dia_Bot

Repeal is definitely fine because maindeck bounce is sometimes nice to have and it's never useless. However I have to admit I still prefer preordain in these spots for consistency reasons.

One question I have about the decklist is the 2 dazes. How do everybody feel about playing 2 dazes?
I've tried them myself in the past and always felt I would be better off either playing 4 of them or playing spell pierce/fluserstorm/misD in their place.

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I only run two dazes because they are often useless after the first few turns of the game. However, they are one of our best counterspells on turn one, two, and three. I play two because I like to see them in my opening hand but I do not want to draw them late game when I need a solid counter. It's the same reason I only play two misdirections; they are randomly great. But it sucks having six counters maindeck that require that you discard another blue card and that you can almost never hard cast, it's even worse with eight. At least that's my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenrus

I only run two dazes because they are often useless after the first few turns of the game. However, they are one of our best counterspells on turn one, two, and three. I play two because I like to see them in my opening hand but I do not want to draw them late game when I need a solid counter. It's the same reason I only play two misdirections; they are randomly great. But it sucks having six counters maindeck that require that you discard another blue card and that you can almost never hard cast, it's even worse with eight. At least that's my opinion.

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That's true. 1st, 2nd and 3rd turn are the most important. However a late game Daze, could be extremely useful if it is discarded for Force of Will or Misdirection. Before Daze I used to have Flusterstorm and/or Spell Pierce. Great counters but I was at least 1 turn slower. I always had to keep some mana available.

I am thinking of picking up this deck after a year with other archetypes. I have played the deck quite a lot and I have a question to you regular pilots:

The two flex slots (repeal, preordain, extra counters) could they be Sensei's Divining Top in a discard/control-heavy meta? Is this just too slow or can it work? I played against ANT that floated cards on top when I discarded him and the top just felt so good. Do we have to go off on t2 and therefore we dont want to play the top? I know preordain etc is blue for fow, but the top does a fantastic job protecting what you are to draw later on.

What are your experiences running top?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by useL

I am thinking of picking up this deck after a year with other archetypes. I have played the deck quite a lot and I have a question to you regular pilots:

The two flex slots (repeal, preordain, extra counters) could they be Sensei's Divining Top in a discard/control-heavy meta? Is this just too slow or can it work? I played against ANT that floated cards on top when I discarded him and the top just felt so good. Do we have to go off on t2 and therefore we dont want to play the top? I know preordain etc is blue for fow, but the top does a fantastic job protecting what you are to draw later on.

What are your experiences running top?

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Top has been pretty good, honestly, especially in a meta of discard-heavy decks. While not as good as Brainstorm or Ponder, I think it's damn close and I like it more than Preordain, personally.

Repeal or another bounce is good to have as a one of, in my opinion. I used it in place of my second Intuition (since I only have one at the moment) and found it nice, especially as a catch-all to things like Humility and Ensnaring Bridge that just beat us.

And I don't feel like you have to go off turn 2, especially against fair decks. It's usually turn 3-4 for me. Sometimes you get the City-Petal-Show-Creature hand and go off turn 1, but I don't feel like you have to rush, unlike with say, something like Reanimator.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenrus

I only run two dazes because they are often useless after the first few turns of the game. However, they are one of our best counterspells on turn one, two, and three. I play two because I like to see them in my opening hand but I do not want to draw them late game when I need a solid counter. It's the same reason I only play two misdirections; they are randomly great. But it sucks having six counters maindeck that require that you discard another blue card and that you can almost never hard cast, it's even worse with eight. At least that's my opinion.

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I can get behind your logic. Maybe I'll give dazes another try.

I ran two tops in the "no petals" list on the last page. It was great against fair decks and still decent against combo. Overall I liked it and will keep it in the deck for now. I was obviously playing a much slower "sculpt the perfect hand" version of this deck, though. I think if you're going for speed, preordain is better because results are immediate and it pitches to fow.

I'll admit one of the reasons I ran top is because I was watching an SCG feature match streaming RUG vs Sneak, and in game 2 RUG forced a turn 1 top, only to have no hard counter for show and tell. What struck me is that some players overvalue top. I found this to be true when my opponents named top with pithing needle, kept abrupt decay in game 2, or spell pierced it. I was usually happy to see my opponent waste a card (counter) or turn (abrupt decay instead of discard spell).

I like top a lot, but have always been too afraid to upset the blue count to main deck it. As for the daze debate, test and see what you like. I personally hate that card because losing a land drop really hurts, and I think the meta isslow enough right now that u dont need it. On the other hand ive seen top 8 decks running 2-4 and 0, so i dont think there is a right answer. I run 4 pierce 4 fow 2 misd as my ten counters and i am happy with it.