Miracle Control

Just went undefeated in a local tourney (33 ppl), rocking the list half way up the page. Ran into BUG twice - turns out Decay never was an issue. Both versions boasted Tomb Stalkers, so I felt extra confident about boarding in RIPs. I boarded out all 4 CB each game - still not sure whether that's the way to go, but it obviously worked this time around.
I will most likely go with a SB along the lines of this next time (though Misdirection and Needle might be replaced with Blood Moons - thoughts?):

3 REB
3 RIP
3 Clique
1 Terminus
1 PtE
1 Disenchant
1 Misdirection
1 BEB
1 Needle

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Originally Posted by klaus

Just went undefeated in a local tourney (33 ppl), rocking the list half way up the page. Ran into BUG twice - turns out Decay never was an issue. Both versions boasted Tomb Stalkers, so I felt extra confident about boarding in RIPs. I boarded the full playset of CBs out each game - still not sure whether that's the way to go, but it obviously worked this time around.
I will most likely go with a SB along the lines of this next time (though Misdirection and Needle might be replaced with Blood Moons - thoughts?):

3 REB
3 RIP
3 Clique
1 Terminus
1 PtE
1 Disenchant
1 Misdirection
1 BEB
1 Needle

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cool great job, how did you sideboard. also what cards mattered in the match-up

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Originally Posted by obituary 95

cool great job, how did you sideboard. also what cards mattered in the match-up

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Actually all cards mattered to a certain degree, so it's hard to judge. I guess it's super crucial to push through an early Jace. Against most Ux decks I tend to keep Jace in hand until I have double counter backup when casting him (exception: they're tapped out). Against BUG, I usually go for it as soon as I hit 5 mana (out of Daze range), since I try to not lose him to their Hymns / Thoughtseizes.

I didn't board in REBs against BUG due to their Wastelands, just: -4 CB +1 Misdirection, +2 RIP, +1PtE

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

Abrupt Decay negates both combos while producing even some CA.

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How do they produce CA with Decay?
Am I missing somthing?

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Originally Posted by Jiaozy

How do they produce CA with Decay?
Am I missing somthing?

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EDIT: I was just talking useless shit. :(

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

If I am having Rest in Peace and Energy Field, and they use their Abrupt Decay on my Rest in Peace, both of my cards go to the graveyard, due to the Rest in Peace triggering the Energy Field. Or if I activate my Helm of Obedience, and in response he uses Abrupt Decay on my Rest in Peace.

Greetings

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Rest in Peace exiles itself, when it is destroyed by AD. So both scenarios are equal trades...

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Originally Posted by Tempus

Rest in Peace exiles itself, when it is destroyed by AD. So both scenarios are equal trades...

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Exactly this.

If there's no RiP they can 2:1 your EField in lots of ways, be it Wasteland, Liliana, discard or whatever, but with RiP on the table it will always exile itself (because before it goes to the 'yard, it's still in play and his effect works) netting you a 1:1 trade.

Oh well, shame on my head. I am sorry for this.
Though scenario 2 is mostly a 2:1, as your RIP is gone, and so is your Helm, and if the activation for 1 isnt netting you a random creature it results in CDA.


Greetings

EDIT:Reading cards would help, double fail.

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

Oh well, shame on my head. I am sorry for this.
Though scenario 2 is mostly a 2:1, as your RIP is gone, and so is your Helm, and if the activation for 1 isnt netting you a random creature it results in CDA.


Greetings

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You only sac Helm if you hit a creature... No 2:1 there..

If you have an unprotected RiP (meaning no redundant RiP, no Misdirection, haven't Cliqued, etc.) you want to avoid Helming if you can. This actually protects your RiP since they can't decay it as long as you can Helm in response (unless they have double-decay).

For those of you currently rocking a :r: splash: would you consider adding a basic Mountain to the board to make those REBs more reliable?
The following common MUs could be improved that way:
Blade Control, RUG, BUG, Merfolk, Team America, and basically all further decks running Blue + Wastelands.
In addition my 2 MD EEs would be more reliable to sunburst @3 against decks running CMC 3 permanents and mana denial (Goblins, Death and Taxes, Aggro Loam, Pox, etc..)

With just Volcs REBs seem too unreliable and I've seen several lists designed by high-end players featuring SB basics, though this approach might be outdated.
Currently I'm considering a SB along the lines of:

1 Disenchant
1 Terminus
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Path to Exile
1 Misdirection
3 RIP
3 Clique
3 REB
1 Mountain

Crits = welcome! :smile:

To be honest, when I'm playing this deck, I don't really fetch Volcs unless I need to, and I've usually been Wastelanded once on another land. However, if you've fetched basics the entire game up to the point of where you want your Volc, then you're in Wasteland territory.

The Mountain does make sense for the long game usage of multiple blasts, especially if you're on the plan of making their Wastelands into bad tap lands via fetching basics. I used to run a Mountain in Thopters for a little while in the board, but I usually found it wasn't always necessary, and at times, I wanted the extra slot. In most of the matchups where you're going long against a Wasteland deck though, you could also run Blood Moon against them.

RUG and BUG are the decks where you would bring in Blasts and they have Wastelands, which is basically the corner case we're trying to look at. Blood Moon is also REALLY good against them, and enables Blasts, turns stuff into Mountains, and prevents Wasteland of those Red sources. Obviously this assumption is predicated upon successfully casting a Blood Moon, but you get what I'm saying. Other matchups where you would bring in Blasts, such as the Mirror or Esperblade, don't have Wastelands, so you don't have to worry about long term access to Red that needs to dodge a Wasteland.

-Matt

I'm still disagreeing on Blood Moon. Not only it would limit how you fetch your own land, it is no guarantee. Why would you active search and slam down an enchantment while you are getting beatdown by Goyf and Dark Confidant? From my own testing, just one basic land and one active DRS would take care of Blood moon via Abrupt Decay, since BUG draws cards form DC. Better yet, cascade into it.

If you like enchantments, might as well get more Enlightened Tutor and go for Energy Field + Rest in Peace. That approach alone would make you forget what Blood moon is.

With that said, REB does have its place. Did we notice that Sneak and Show have just won another SCG? REB/Pyro are great against those combo decks. However, recently I have found that Misdirection might better as a SB instead of REB, since Misd. can take care so many decks from the SB.

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Originally Posted by twndomn

I'm still disagreeing on Blood Moon. Not only it would limit how you fetch your own land, it is no guarantee. Why would you active search and slam down an enchantment while you are getting beatdown by Goyf and Dark Confidant? From my own testing, just one basic land and one active DRS would take care of Blood moon via Abrupt Decay, since BUG draws cards form DC. Better yet, cascade into it.

If you like enchantments, might as well get more Enlightened Tutor and go for Energy Field + Rest in Peace. That approach alone would make you forget what Blood moon is.

With that said, REB does have its place. Did we notice that Sneak and Show have just won another SCG? REB/Pyro are great against those combo decks. However, recently I have found that Misdirection might better as a SB instead of REB, since Misd. can take care so many decks from the SB.

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Blood moon serves a cOmpletely different purpose. Rip+field would also take up way more slots. 1 blood moon in the side has been great for me. If you manage to slam it down early or even late game your opponent didnt expzct it and you play bloodmoon it's often game. 20 minutes ago i won from bug like that. I plowed the shaman, then played blood moon. He couldnt cast anything, i answered his goyf, and he scooped.
It autowins you some games.

Checking TCDecks, I came across the following list, played (and presumably designed) by Raphaël Lévy: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...1&iddeck=72761

The following things stand out to me:

1: Only 1 Counterbalance MD. I actually like this, with Abrupt Decay seeing so much play right now, the pesky enchantment isn't as good as it used to be, so running just 1 MD and adding more post board depending on the match up actually seems quite good.

2: Low land count (just 20), probably made possible by the 4 Ponders. This reminds me of old school countertop lists (and Caw Cartel), which favoured a greater amount of Cantrips over more lands. I'm hessitant about this, at first sight I think I'd rather have more lands, at least drop 1 Ponder for land number 21 (although I'd be more comfortable with 22 lands). I could be wrong though, and this certainly deserves further testing.

3: 1 Disenchant MD. This one is quite strange. I think not running D. Sphere is a concession to Abrupt Decay. Disenchant is never really dead, it can be really good, but the fact that it can't take down creatures is certainly a downside.

4: 2 Elspeths MD. I really like this. I've been a long time fan of Elspeth, and she wrecks all the BGx decks running around.

The sideboard is also interesting. I think we can go down on graveyard hate, 6 cards might be too much, the rest I like, small Jace breaks the control mirror wide open.

On another note, I also found this version, which is much more, "innovative":

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...5&iddeck=72784

I guess Horizon Canopy is there to combo with Crucible of Worlds, but 2 seem to much. Running 8374 colours might also prove troublesome.

Any thoughts?

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Originally Posted by The Treefolk Master

Checking TCDecks, I came across the following list, played (and presumably designed) by Raphaël Lévy: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...1&iddeck=72761

The following things stand out to me:

1: Only 1 Counterbalance MD. I actually like this, with Abrupt Decay seeing so much play right now, the pesky enchantment isn't as good as it used to be, so running just 1 MD and adding more post board depending on the match up actually seems quite good.

2: Low land count (just 20), probably made possible by the 4 Ponders. This reminds me of old school countertop lists (and Caw Cartel), which favoured a greater amount of Cantrips over more lands. I'm hessitant about this, at first sight I think I'd rather have more lands, at least drop 1 Ponder for land number 21 (although I'd be more comfortable with 22 lands). I could be wrong though, and this certainly deserves further testing.

3: 1 Disenchant MD. This one is quite strange. I think not running D. Sphere is a concession to Abrupt Decay. Disenchant is never really dead, it can be really good, but the fact that it can't take down creatures is certainly a downside.

4: 2 Elspeths MD. I really like this. I've been a long time fan of Elspeth, and she wrecks all the BGx decks running around.

The sideboard is also interesting. I think we can go down on graveyard hate, 6 cards might be too much, the rest I like, small Jace breaks the control mirror wide open.

On another note, I also found this version, which is much more, "innovative":

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...5&iddeck=72784

I guess Horizon Canopy is there to combo with Crucible of Worlds, but 2 seem to much. Running 8374 colours might also prove troublesome.

Any thoughts?

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Both interesting lists. I like the idea of going back to more Ponders, as that's what made caw cartel and the early terminator cartel decks so good. Elspeth is great right now as well, I really want access to 1 or 2 in the 75.

Canopy is interesting certainly - extra draws for miracles, and a good late-game draw engine with crucible. I like little Jace a lot. 2 Crucibles seems like a lot to me, and I don't want 3 colorless lands in my 3 color control deck (the only actual use for the green from canopy I see is Engineered Explosives).

There is rarely a game where I'm thinking wow, I've had too many lands this game. Though Elspeth isn't an awful place to be with Spell Pierces getting cut.

Still... however awkward Abrupt Decay can be against Counterbalance... it's still just one or two decks and the Legacy meta is such that in 8 rounds, you might only see one or two BGx decks. I think I might give into the dark side and start trying out a SFM package. There are very few MUs where it is bad and it improves quite a lot of the more difficult ones... probably means I can't run my new Moat though. -__-

I'm checking back in because deathrite and decay have been taking a toll on this decks performance. Snapcaster is the first casualty as deathrite just eats most Snapcaster targets, it's not funny.

Decay on the other hand is a handful and can be approached in 2ways. It's either you play around decay totally by cutting sfm and counterbalance, or you overload decay by running more copies. I've decided to just wing it and stick to 3 counterbalance and 3 sfm maindeck. At worst its still a 1-1 trade. Counterbalance is still fantastic in other matchups.

I'm also playing the 5th sweeper with 1 copy of verdict. In alot of situations, I feel that 4 sweepers isn't enough because I lose games against jund when my sweeper gets ripped from my hand. Adding another copy increases the chance of drawing one, and the fact that supreme pitches to force vs combo or control makes it an OK inclusion imo.

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Originally Posted by ivanpei

I'm checking back in because deathrite and decay have been taking a toll on this decks performance. Snapcaster is the first casualty as deathrite just eats most Snapcaster targets, it's not funny.

Decay on the other hand is a handful and can be approached in 2ways. It's either you play around decay totally by cutting sfm and counterbalance, or you overload decay by running more copies. I've decided to just wing it and stick to 3 counterbalance and 3 sfm maindeck. At worst its still a 1-1 trade. Counterbalance is still fantastic in other matchups.

I'm also playing the 5th sweeper with 1 copy of verdict. In alot of situations, I feel that 4 sweepers isn't enough because I lose games against jund when my sweeper gets ripped from my hand. Adding another copy increases the chance of drawing one, and the fact that supreme pitches to force vs combo or control makes it an OK inclusion imo.

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+1 on everything stated. I'm still sticking with 2 SCMs though: partly to pay dues to the CB curve by being CMC2 (3-4 CBs & 1-2 CSs is not enough imo) and you can still ambush a BS when they're tapped out, plus SCM shines in so many other MUs.

Just so everybody knows:

Them killing your Rest in Peace is indeed a 1:1 trade. However, they then immediately make you discard, or wasteland you, or cast a threat you have to counter, still netting the 2:1.

The card is and always has been high-risk, high-reward.