I have, but it didn't matter. I mean I had the force, and its a bit of a liability against GBx lists unless it's specifically on a Tyrant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
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I have, but it didn't matter. I mean I had the force, and its a bit of a liability against GBx lists unless it's specifically on a Tyrant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
am i missing something other than saving your animate dead for a later use?Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
3 Decay main testing tonight was inconclusive. I had it in place of Daze.
Rd. 1: Lands, 2-0. Not much to decay there.
Rd. 2: Pseudo-Mirror Loss 1-2 (Brew with 4 MD Lillis). I guess it could have been good here, but I didn't see the Lilliana until like game 3. Also could have hit a Jace, Vryn's Prodigy.
Rd. 3: BUG Delver Loss 1-2: Lost game three because I got greedy, basically. He had a DRS that became active next turn. I had the option to wait til next turn, he clocks me with Delver down to 6, then I untap and Decay delver, Thoughtseize any interaction he had, Careful study away Griselbrand and IF I drew a land or petal off the study, I could cast Exhume and go hellbent.
I chose to just use my remaining 3 mana to cast Study, then Exhume. He was tapped out. Wham, surgical, he untaps and hymns me. Yuck.
All in all, Decay didn't seem great G1, but I may test it again in a few weeks.
Tried playing Reanimator at the GP Columbus preview at Pittsburgh (Oh God GP Pittsburgh was awful) to terrible results
R1 Elves:
T1 Elesh Norn
T3 Griselbrand with Sphnix of Steel Wind
R2 4c Delver
G1 Griselbrand T1 opponent was land locked from his brainstorm
G2 I keep a one land hand but it has entomb, reanimate and force backup. I get wastelanded and see no lands for the rest
G3 I forget here. I ended up hardcasting Griselbrand and it got forced, thats how bad it was.
R3 ANT
G1: T1 blind Elesh Norn flip. I bring my opponent down to 3 life then he combos off and tendrils me to near lethal but I misdirect a tendrils on the top of the stack to avoid death. I get him down to 4 life again only to get tendrils again.
G2: He had way more discard than I did permission/discard.
R4 TES
G1: I keep a T2 kill hand with no permission. And he has a T1 tendrils hand and kills me.
G2: T2 sire of insanity gets me there
G3: Hand gets ripped apart.
R5 UWR Miracles
G1: I concede here since I see echoing truth mainboarded.
G2: Empyrial Archangel beatdown
G3: I kept a bonkers hand. Land, thoughtseize, reanimate x3, griselbrand,and a misdirection. When I thoughtseized myself my opponent saw my hand and was visibly worried. Griselbrand was in the yard. On his T1 he brainstorms and immediately windmill slams a surgical extraction. My friend watching my opponent said it was the third card down so if I was able to misdirect from the careful study I got on my next draw step I would have gotten it.
I played poorly and luck wasn't on my side that day. I'm starting to think the Jace is cursed hah.
Updated with the matchs:Quote:
Hey guys,
I'm from Brazil and this weekend we had a 2-day National Legacy Champ with 134 players. I've finished on 12th (7-2 on Day1 and 2-2 day2) playing Reanimator. I've been playing with the traditional UB Reanimator (with green splash on SB) for the past months but was very impressed with the results from Chase playing a 4-color build and decided to mix it on a home made build (sounds bad lol). I was expecting a metagame mixed with Unfair and deathrite shaman based decks and both Izzet Charm and Lotus Petal worked great on my matchs against them.
I will post the decklist here and later I will try to post the matchups for the 13 rounds (just need to gather data from my head and notes).
Reanimator:
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Grave Titan
1 Tidespout Tyrant
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
4 Entomb
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Thoughtseize
2 Izzet Charm
1 Ponder
3 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
Sideboard:
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Disfigure
2 Massacre
1 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Show and Tell
1 Chain of Vapor
Round 1-2 - Bye
Round 3 - Win 2-1 (RUG Delver)
G1: Mull to six and kept a good hand with 1 Reanimate,1 Entomb, 2 lands, 1 Fow, 1 Grisel. He started with tropical ponder. I find a pitch to fow and go off on turn 3 for Griselbrand avoiding daze.
G2: Mull again to 6 and kept a Ok hand with no combo, 1 land but with ponder and abrupt decay. He started with Delver. I miss a land draw and tried ponder with got daze. he follow with mangoose and cage and I died trying to find the second land.
G3: kept the opening 7 with the combo and disrupt. Started with entomb on main phase (avoind soft counters) and hit Grisel on grave. Turn 2 duress and see a hand with REB, Flusterstorm, 3 lands and a Delver. I removed the flusterstorm and combo for Grisel on the spot.
3-0
Round 4: Loss 2-1 (Teammate playing Miracles, top8)
G1: We trained a lot this matchup. Game 1 the faster you combo the better for you. Started with a great hand with seize and combo on turn 2, removes a fow but unfortunately i saw a karakas and decided to combo for Tidespout. The waterhead hits 2 times before a terminus shutdown him. I missed the combo for 3 turns but he also didn't find nothing and I combo again for Grave Titan with seals the game.
G2: A lot of hate comes in for him in this matchup (i think it is 10 cards from the side). The game resumed with a lot of counter war and a vendillion clique hitting to death.
G3:Almost the same as G2 with a vendillion and snapcaster hitting me to death while a Jace was fatesealing my draws.
3-1
Round 5: Loss 2-1 (Grixis Delver, champion)
G1: I know he is playing Grixis and decide to go off on turn 1 with petal and daze. He tried to force the reanimate with get dazed and he scoops for Grisel.
G2: I made a horribly mistake that cost me the game. I kept a six hand with 2 grisels, 1 reanimate, 1 entomb, 1 land, 1 fow. After a lot of think he kept a 6 hand and started with Usea and pass. I think for a moment trying to figure out why he kept a hand with no opening threat and the only options are 2 counter (fow,daze) and/or surgical.I draw a blue card and pass again. On his turn he casts delver and follow with a shaman. I decided to go for entomb at end step (daze me please) with resolves. Now I made the mistake, with 2 grisel on hand I was afraid of a surgical hitting 2 cards of my hand and decided for Iona (o.O). On my turn I tried to reanimate and win the counter war. Iona hits the game naming black but unfortunatelly I died to a active shaman. If I've choosen Griselbrand instead the game was mine.
G3: A lot of counters from him sealed the game. I remember of 1 fow 1 daze 1 snare 1 pierce. Ouch.
3-2 (no more loss if I want day2)
Round6: Win 2-0 (Pox)
G1: I seized him and see a hand with seize, innocent blood, cursed scroll, and 3 lands. Took the seize and go off on turn 2 for Iona.
G2: Almost the same. This time I reanimate a Grisel from hand Iona hits the table next turn.
4-2
Round7: Win 2-0 (Reanimator)
G1: I go off first and hits griselbrand. Hi tried to go off too but i draw 7 and found Daze and Fow.
G2: He tries to go off on turn 2, with get flusterstormed. on my turn I duress him and combo again for Griselbrand.
5-2
Round8: Win 2-1 (BUG Delver)
G1: I kept a excellent hand with combo on turn 1 (via lotus petal) and Fow for backup. Griselbrand entered the game and she scoops.
G2: She started with an early shaman, who gets me to 14 before I found Decay, planning to go off on the next turn. I tried to go off and got countered. On her turn she follow up with another shaman and a Tombstalker (o.O). On my draw I hit another reanimate and hits grisel on the table. on the end step she Submerge it and I die on attack.
G3: Most difficult game of all tournament with tons of sideboard attrition and shaman removing my threats. I remember being at 13 with flipped Delver and Shaman on the other side. On my turn I tried a blind careful study with hits 2 griselbrands (\o/). I discard both and go for exhume. She tried a Fow with gets another Fow and Griselbrand enter the table, leaving me on 5. On EOT she bites me for 2 with shaman and made another shaman and tombstalker. I was on a bad spot. On my turn attacked with Grisel, jump off to 12 again. I think for a moment and decide to draw 7, going again to 5. I draw another careful, an exhume and Elesh. Discard elesh for careful and go for exhume again. She thinks for a moment and removes elesh. I reanimate again another griselbrand and sac the one that just attacked. Pass the turn.
On her turn she draw and pass again (now with 2 shamans active). I Top draw a needle, with force hers to tap the shamans for damage (no creatures on my grave). I attack with grisel, draw 7 and this time I found a Tidespout with enter the game from a animate dead. on her turn I Brainstorm and Entomb to bounce her creatures and the game was mine.
6-2
1 win from day 2. On the last round I see my pairings and my teammate whisper to me: "Elves". Day2 was close.
Round 9: 2-0 (Elves)
G1: pretty easy game. he started with quirion, following with needle and heritage. Tried a natural order with gets FOW. IOn my turn I reanimate an Elesh and he scoops.
G2: he mull to 5 trying to find a shaman or disrupts with no success. I get Iona on turn 2 and he scoops.
7-2
Passed to Day2 on 9th.
Round 10:Win 2-1 (Omnitell)
G1: Pretty easy game. He told me he kept a hand with no counter but with combo on turn2 (via city of traitors). I started and combo for Grisel on 1 protected with daze. he tried to combo on turn2 but 7 extra cards was too much for him.
G2: I kept an Ok hand with disrupts but no combo until turn 4. He cantrips the first 2 turns and tried a show and tell with gets countered (no creatures on my hand). I tried to go off and also gets countered. On hist turn he pondered and go for dream halls. I tried another counter with get pierced and he discard an intuition to put in game omniscience, he shows 2 cunning wish on hand and I scoop.
G3: I kept a combo hand on turn2 protected with Fow. Griselbrand entered the table and 1 turn later Iona joined the party.
Round 11: Loss 0-2 (ANT, top4)
G1 and G2: decide to keep an OK hand both games after mull to 6 and he started the combo on turn2 after duress me both games. Both games I does not found any counter =/
Round 12: Loss 0-2 (Death and Taxes, top8)
G1: Game 1 I kept a good hand with half combo and protection. He started with wasteland (ouch, my only lands was tropical on the table and badlands on hand) Vial and I follow up with badlands. He waste my badlands and them he follows with karakas (ouchx2) and mother of runes. I draw and miss a land, leaving me with only 1 . I pass
the turn he ups the vial counters to 3. On his turn he land a rishadan port to lock my only land, activate vial for Brimaz and I scoops without telling my gameplan.
G2: Kept a good hand with massacre, exhume and cantrips. I started with ponder, found no engine and shuffle. He started again with waste vial. I draw, land and pass.
he follow with revoker for deathrite shaman (told me he was thinking of Grixis Delver) and pass. I Brainstorm on EOT and found no engine again. fetchs for a basic swamp to shuffle top, draw another Brainstorm and pass. he puts mother of runes in play and I follow with IZzet Charm EOT, discarding no creatures. . I draw an entomb, massacre his creatures and entomb Grave Titan. On his turn he tried Serra Avenger with got countered (I was low on life points). On my turn I draw an Exhume and decided to play it. He brings back Avenger (¬¬) and I put Titan in play. He was able to win the race at 2 life drawing a stoneforge to chump my Titan.
8-4 (no top8 for me)
Game 13: Win 2-0 (Counter Slivers)
G1 and G2: Resumes to Elesh on 2.
Final Standing 9-4 (12th, $200)
No, that's it, bouncing the Animate Dead sends Tidespout Tyrant to the graveyard, letting you bring him back again next turn. Saves him from things like swords or a bounce effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by KobeBryan
I've only recently put together a reanimator list. Was hoping to have a third set of eyes to make sure it doesn't look too crazy. I'm enjoying my main deck so far, but my sideboard is a bit off.
4C Reanimator
Creatures: 6
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Xenobite
Spells: 40
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Animate Dead
1 Inkwell Leviathan
Lands: 14
4 Flooded Strand
4 Marsh Flat
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Island
1 Swamp
Sideboard: 15
3 Massacre
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Vendiiion Clique
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Tropical Island
Enlightened Tutor allows me easier access to Pithing Needle (against Deathrite/Karakas/Maze), Animate Dead, and Inkwell Leviathan (to be pitched with Careful Study) without doubling up on any of those three cards. Mentor + Clique also allows me to play a grindier game against control deck or decks with heavy grave hate.
Any thoughts on what I might be missing/overthinking?
I've been testing Chase's list and variations thereof pretty extensively, and I am definitely coming around to his point of view in many ways. I have not missed Ponder or Thoughtseize at all, and Hapless Researcher is the absolute 100% truth. On these three cards, I am sure he is objectively correct in some sense. Izzet Charm and Misdirection have had their moments, but I'm not yet sure they're slam dunks the same way Hapless Researcher is. There are three points where my experience has differed:
- Basic Island. This really helps a lot versus the Wasteland decks, enough that I think 1 Island is better than the 4th Sea.
- Daze. This card has still been terrific for me even in the Izzet Charm builds. I have not found that picking up a land has been much of an issue, and playing both Daze and 6 pitch counters really helps increase the frequency of god hands where you have a reanimation spell backed up by two counters and also makes it more likely that you will be able to answer the first removal spell for your first reanimated fatty. It is sick that there exists a combo deck this fast that gets to play 9-10 free counters.
- Lotus Petal, but only as far as the Miracles matchup is concerned. I do not miss it versus most other decks since the resilient game Chase is trying to play is effective there. But versus Miracles, I think their inevitability in post-board games is insurmountable even with the grindy cards when your opponent aggressively tries to stop a fatty from coming into play at all costs (i.e. cutting basically all the white removal for counterspells and GY hate postboard). I feel like your best hope is to go under, which can be hard without Lotus Petal. I can imagine actually playing 2-3 Lotus Petal in the sideboard just for this. In my testing, G1 is still very much in our favor, but G2 and G3 are highly unfavorable. Perhaps there is some other card that can help.
With that in mind, I've enjoyed playing this small deviation from his list:
2 Badlands
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Animate Dead
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Brainstorm
3 Careful Study
4 Entomb
2 Izzet Charm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Griselbrand
4 Hapless Researcher
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
Sideboard:
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Disfigure
2 Duress
1 Echoing Truth
1 Golgari Charm
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
2 Thoughtseize
I know 3 Careful Study is heresy, but I feel that with 4 Hapless and 2 Charm, you don't need a 10th loot effect.
I've been playing Chase's list this Sunday, in a small city tournament, with a little change (No Jace TMS in MD and no snapcaster in SB).
I think the Maindeck is very good, but on the sideboard I've some observation:
1- Is not to many Four discard effect? When we side in all of this cards?
2- Vs Deathrite Shaman Decks, dosen't we need a Pyroclasm?
3- When do we side out Force of Will? Vs Jund, Junk etc...?
Thanks
P.S: Sorry for my bad english.:tongue:
@JohnBell:
1- I don't think 4 discard is too many, I frequently bring in 2-3 against the blue tempo and miracles decks, because we can snipe either a threat or a key piece of interaction. I bring in all of the discard in combo mirrors, it makes those matchups a lot easier to play, if I didn't care about the combo matchup (it is already pretty good) I would cut one.
2- Pyroclasm isn't needed, but I think it's an alright call, I just haven't had the time to test it yet.
3- I almost never side out forces, there are always going to be spells we want to counter, both before and after "going off".
Do you think the red splash is the "new way to go" ?
Izzet Charm seems quite good. It can handle all the small, for this deck annoying, creatures like Containment Priest, Deathrite Shaman etc.
And for the combo match-up you have a Spell pierce or just a looting effect for putting some creatures into the yard.
Will it become the "new list"?
I don't think so, it's a good list but some will still favor the speed of petal builds. The "older" tri color lists still put up results in conjunction of the 4 color. My meta warped pretty bad where Lands is pretty big so Blood Moon has come back with a fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckerator
How do you side Vs Jund, Red Mavericks etc... MU?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryfo
I think insted in this meta the 4c list is a better solution. If you want a "Explosive" deck you can play Dredge or Storm...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke is Good
Played some matches against Aggro Loam and Chalice @1 is such a pain in the ass.
Really difficult to handle. Furthermore Scavenging Ooze is annoying too.
I think about adding 2x Show and Tell nowadays to the mainboard.
Tidespout Tyrant is such a bomb. :tongue:
Abrupt Decay and Echoing Truth both handle Chalice swimmingly. Also, if you can get a critter in the yard turn 1 otp (or a turn 1otp Hapless Researcher), it becomes much easier to maintain your game plan.
You are correct, Tidespout Tyrant is your best choice for Chalice decks in my experience. I test against MUD often (my roommate plays it), and either I get locked out of the game or he scoops to Tyrant. The matchup has honestly gone stale for me.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Bounce Animate Dead, Tidespout dies. Cast Animate Dead again op Tidespout. If you have an instant, you can always rescue Tidespout itself or your Animate Dead from destruction or exile. That's very cool to do against decks that rely on removal and Karakas to stop you.Quote:
Originally Posted by KobeBryan
At the moment i play without Hapless Researcher. Would you recommend testing him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
I like him a lot. Like has been said by Chris, he does a lot of work. He smooths things out, protects against Lili, lets you bait out counterbalance easier. He blocks Batterskull and stops the lifelink, and also gives you an edge in the race, as a one-time blocker will often put it in your favor. I would try him at least.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Hapless Researcher is fantastic. It looks like straight garbage, but it is actually very good here. In addition to what Secretly.A.Bee mentioned, I want to mention two other advantages:
1) Researcher allows you to bank 1 mana into the combo before you are actually ready to go for it. To me, this is the biggest reason why the card is worth playing. Spreading the cost of the combo over multiple turns helps you play around soft countermagic and mana denial much better, and it also gives you some flexibility in sequencing so that you can more effectively play around instant speed GY hate (e.g. Deathrite, Surgical, Faerie Macabre).
2) It is less likely to draw a counterspell than Careful Study because you cast Hapless without a fatty in hand a lot of the time, and they know that, whereas you typically don't just go digging randomly with Careful Study.
To be clear, it can be really awkward to draw multiple Researchers, but the first one is always great.
Yeah, but they pitch to Force/MisD, and it's cool to have a "dedicated" pitch-card mid/late-game.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!