Choke vs. Tsunami - mana? Choke does come in Korean, but Tsunami does come in Summer/Beta...hard to say. Also, manacost, but you make a post - Wear/Tear is doing straight nothing against Tsunami.
-Matt
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Choke vs. Tsunami - mana? Choke does come in Korean, but Tsunami does come in Summer/Beta...hard to say. Also, manacost, but you make a post - Wear/Tear is doing straight nothing against Tsunami.
-Matt
I built a pretty stock Jund list for an acquaintance to run at a local. I was curious how many 6 drops do you guys run? I had two, a Broodmate, and a Grave Titan. I like the broodmate not only because of the evasion and you get two bodies but it can be found with GSZ
Mostly i run 1. While NicFit is a mana ramping one should always be careful not to overextend in playing cards higher in the curve. But lategame it is always nice to see high cmc creatures. The downside is that we often need a strong early game development in order to be succesfull in the mid/late game. So balance is key.Quote:
Originally Posted by moseby
On a sidenote. Currently i am running 2 Stormbreath Dragon main and found that the mainboard 3 forest, 2 swamp, 1 mountain configuration gave me problems. I really needed a 2nd basic mountain to fire of Stormbreath. I lost cus i couldnt vs DnT.
Edit: So i played a bunch of games with the last list i posted. 2 MD Slaughter Games, 2 MD Stormbreath Dragon and 2 MD Liliana (instead of 3). For reference:
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Slaughter Games
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
// board
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Extirpate
2 Thoughtseize
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Pithing Needle
1 Krosan Grip
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Garruk Relentless
0-2 Necrotic Ooze. G1 he goes T1 land, ritual, entomb, shallow grave into grizelbrand, attack, draw a bunch and then does the Necrotic Ooze machine gun thing.
G2 i was able to Therapy some cards, but he draw what he needed and machinegunned me T3. Typically you want to extract Necrotic Ooze and prevent him from reanimating Griselbrand.
2-1 DnT. G1 he just drew better and i was slowed down by Thalia. I was able to fire away 3x VetEx while holding Stormbreath, but lacking 2nd Mountain i wasn't able to play it and stop Brimaz. Shit happens.
G2 we traded resources and kept the board pretty clean while he put me at 12. i was able to stick a Vraska and destroy the Serra Avenger while equipped with Jitte and keeping him of creatures while I started to create board presence. Eventually Vrasks kept it that way while i started pounding with Thrun.
G3 i shredded his hand with VetEx+Therapy. After which he started to create board presence and snooped away some life. I consolidated when i resolved Stormbreath and Deed cleaned up the turn after.
0-2 Turbo Depths. Simply put, this is the most horrible matchup for us, like ever. Pithing Needle did some work, naming Stage, but they run Vapmire Hexmage... that being said, forcing them to Marit Lage by casting Abrupt Decay on their turn while casting Liliana on our own can work, if they can't counter it. Kinda narrow. Mostly i have less problems with Jund Depths since that deck is sooo much slower playing LftL shenenigans instead of Brainstorm/Ponder into Crap Rotation AND/OR Hexmage.
2-1 Reanimate. G1 Land, Petal, Entomb, Reanimate....
G2, Thoughtseize, Therapy, Pithing Needle on Griselbrand. Still he got it on the table, but couldnt do anything vs Liliana.
G3 Active DRS and SDT, Extirpate on hand and Slaughter Games naming Show and Tell where enough.
2-1 Sneak/Show. G1 a quick Emrakul still needed 3 turns to win. First attack i had 1 taiga, 2 VetEx and 1 Thragtusk in play. After attack i had 4 basics, 3/3 beast and 10 life. Didnt draw Liliana, so played a land and casted Stormbreath the turn after and attack with 3/3 beast. He attack, blocked with dragon leaving me with 0 permanens and 10 life. I draw, play fetch and died on his turn, lawl.
G2 Bunch of discard, Slaughter Games 1 and 2 naming Sneak and S&T. Casted Stormbreath (left 1 in after boarding). Then i made it Monstrous doing 10 dmg in 1 turn w00t. He tried to make mana to hardcast either GBees or Emmy, but i race him in 3 turn after resolving the dragon.
G3 was weird, i did Thoughtseize and Therapy on his business and draw only into creatures. Huntmaster, Thragtusk, Drs, Witness and Dragon race him in 2 turns. Carpet of Flowers worked wonders here.
Conclusions so far:
Pros:
Being at cmc 5 at max really gives an edge , because i was able to continually cast stuff while also did SDT spins and holding mana open for DRS or Extirpate.
Stormbreath Dragon is pretty good. It is versatile creature on both offense as on defense role. Vs combo i kept 1 in the main and it provided a solid clock. The card WILL perform vs anything white and has proven that already.
Pithing Needle is a very solid sideboard card and it performed very good. Naming Jitte vs DnT for instance.
Carpet of Flowers vs SneakShow was juicy. VetEx is a BAD idea vs SneakShow.
Liliana showed up for once and i was pretty happy with her (FINALLY).
How the list is now it really works well with the boarding plan. I never felt that i had to cut needed cards and was able to switch like 11-13 cards vs combo while still have solid punching power in the list. 1 Dragon, Huntmaster, Thragtusk and sometimes Thrun + Wtiness, DRS, Scooze stay in the deck along with 1 VetEx (if i replace with Carpets).
Cons:
Diabolic Edict hasn't done anything since i added it to the board. It will get the cut. This opens room for Liliana 3.
Slaughter Games game 1 was never relevant. Back to the board?
VetEx not being able to grab Mountain nr 2 was pretty shitty. Was that a corner case scenario? I thought about switching Forest for Mountain, but sometimes you already have to mulligan for having the wrong colors of mana in your opening hand.
So i might just move Slaughter Games to the board cutting 1 Edict and 1 Garruk (since Dragon is solid against the same decks as what Garruk is for). This will put Liliana nr 3 and Kolaghan's Command nr 1 in the main. Still not sure if i want to switch a land for Mountain nr 2.
Been looking through the compact combos thread. I already though if Sidisi were to have a home it would be here. Diabolic Intent or Sidisi + Rector--> Omniscience, Emrakul. What do you guys think? 4 Rectors, 1 Omniscience, 1 Emrakul is a start. It can probably just be normal Rector Fit with the 1 Omniscience.
Once i have seen such a list perform at a tournament. It looked pretty awesome, doing all kinds of shit, looping Baleful Strix and Sensei's Divining Top. Based on that list i have build one and resembling the one from the original designer. Ok so i have been testing the following list for about a year ago. The manabase is designed to be able to hardcast Emrakul or Omniscience. I'd recommend not changing that manabase, not at least until you have tested it. The way it is designed the duals and colors are well balanced after some serious testing. For the rest, this functions basicly like any NicFit deck, except that you slowly grind into Omniscience. There is tons of weird, but cool interactions in this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanti
2 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Scrubland
3 Island
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
3 Academy Rector
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze // Aetherling Basicly this is your flexslot meta specific alternate wincon.
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Diabolic Intent
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Null Profusion
1 Omniscience
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
While looking at the current list i'd probably cut down a Witness and a Decay for 2 Negate or so.
The only change I would like to see in this deck would be Gitaxian probes. The synergy with therapy is absolutely fantastic.
Also with the brainstorms, and Jace(s), I might -2 top +1 trinket mage with a tutor pack in the board? Etherling looks like a fantastic option.
My changes might look something like this:
- 1 jace (only own 1), - 1 recuring nightmare, - 1 eternal witness, - 2 tops
+ 4 gitaxian probe (or +3 probes, +1 trinketmage), + 1 Sidisi
Warnings about this deck is that stifle is an absolute pounding, and DRS can eat rectors in response to the remove trigger when it hits the yard. Otherwise it was a lot of fun when I played it last.
You need 2 tops to infinite chain draw your deck with Null Profusion and Omnisciene. For the rest, if you like Probe then probe is fine. Also some consider Probe as 0 added cards to the deck so going up to 63 cards maindeck with 4 probes might be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by moseby
Just 3-1'd a daily event with the ol' Caleb Durward Pod build.
Round 1: Sneak and Show (2-0)
Round 2: Omnishow (2-1)
Round 3: Miracles (2-0, he timed out g2 while scrambling to stop my grave titan army + recurring nightmare + murderous redcap after having already used 3 termini and 1 entreat)
Round 4: Omnitell (0-2)
Sickest play of the night: flashing in notion thief in response to Griselbrand draw 7
I would love to play Bobmans deck with few changes.
I don't see any Tasigurs in the lates decklist in this thread. Nobody likes him?
Cool, which one? The PFire list or the 4c Rector Strix list that was dicussed last posts (a little)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganfar
Tasigur, i haven't played the card yet.
As far as the PFire list goes: LINK to the recent list. I want to squeeze in a 2nd Mountain, but i am not sure in place of what? Anyone?
Awesome result and love those plays. Care to share your list?Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
Here is my list:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Phantasmal Image
4 Baleful Strix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Wood Elves
1 Bone Shredder
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Shriekmaw
1 Thragtusk
1 Acidic Slime
1 Grave Titan
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Brainstorm
1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Recurring Nightmare
3 Birthing Pod
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Island
3 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Phyrexian Tower
Sideboard:
3 Thoughtseize
3 Swan Song
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Golgari Charm
1 Engineered Plague
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Notion Thief
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Mindbreak Trap proved to be pretty useful vs the new Omnitell iterations that are running around. In the match I won the sequences would always go "Show and Tell -> Swan Song -> Spell Pierce" then I would let Show and Tell resolve, they put in Omniscience and then I can cast Trap for free on the next spell they play. Getting to 4 mana to hardcast the trap is super easy in this deck too.
As far as Tasigur goes, I feel like he is too slow and mana intensive, but I could see it in a GB version that doesn't have much else in the way of card advantage.
Not to mention that MBT does not "counter", it exiles. This is pretty relevant against say Emmy or a boseiju protected spell.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
So, I promised a few things and work kept me away from my duty.
As a beginning, I wish luck to all people living in Texas around. And I hope God will keep you away from those nasty floodings...
As MTG is concerned, here is my latest Demigod list for those interested.
Revenge Jund Fit
1 Mountain
2 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
2 Taiga
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Demigod of Revenge
3 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Golgari Charm
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 3 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
Nothing outstandingly new, but Thrun is back into the starting blocks. Down to 20 lands which is somehow compensated by the inclusion of DRS n°4.
Yeah, pressure is key.
Finally I settled on only 2 Demigods. The lower the curve, the better. And they still get the job done.
The 2 deed/1 golgari split is a concession to the current metagame. Being able to kill an overcosted enchantment or sweep a token army is unvaluable as clunky as a one-of could be. It could be the card that steals a game for you when you expect it the least and stealing this lost battle could be the edge you were missing to enter a top 8.
Darkblast is an idea coming from a fellow player of this thread and I like it. It can be considered as our P.fire in a Jund list that does not play recurring spot removal.
I am still not a fan of REB in the sideboard. And one might replace them with "carpet of flowers". We definitely need more test to draw any meaningful conclusion:
REB is "good" on its own.
Carpet + Slaughter games are outstanding.
Eventually, the hardest part of this equation is gathering the two pieces. But, at least, you can freely side out all (but one?) your explorers. It is dangerous to give lands to a blue control shell or to a combo deck.
Time will tell.
Anyway, I invite Jund Fit players to consider testing carpet instead of REB and give us as many feedbacks as possible.
And if anyone wonders; Blood moon is amazing. Really amazing.
BUG Wish Fit
I promised a SB card by card explanation;
Principles: you get to wish 3 times in this deck. Use them wisely.
The first two wishes are usually spent on cards that keep you in the game whatever it could be. Just keep in mind that your life is also a ressource. For instance you can delay a wish for a few turns and take some blows to take full advantage of it. Sometimes, you won't delay the wish and go for it as fast as you can.
The last wish is usually for the kill.
Don't be surprised, as you get use to the deck, a lot of grindy games will end with barely 15 cards left in your library. And you will have spent the entire game trading blows after blows.
Sideboard strategies:
I don't have time right now to post sideboard tables, but one can keep in my following principles:
Cards with CMC < Wish are likely coming when you need them
Cards with CMC > Wish are likely staying in the board as "wish" target
The above is no longer true if you don't keep any wish (or just 1) post side.
1) Empty the Pits
The deck was built around this card. I will almost say, that all you want is looking at your opponent, exhausted by trading blows for 20 mins, and say "It was a good game while wishing for it and playing it at his end of turn.
The card is not "easy" to cast. Keep counting slowly your grave without letting your opponent know anything about your plan. Taking brief notes on your papersheet is certainly your best option.
20 is the magical number. The lower your opponent is on life points, the easier.
The easiest way to cast Empty is to have a resolved Glen Elendra on the battlefield.
On average games, it will be your main win condition against midrange and control decks.
I side it in against combo decks and leave Hatred as a wish kill, because few tokens are a really good clock against combo deck.
Diabolic Edict
Diabolic edict is a concession to decks playing huge monsters not impacted by Deed (or not fast enough), hexproof beast: Tombstalker, Tasigur, Gurmag, Mongoose, Emrakul, Marit Lage, Creeping Tar pits etc...
Thoughtseize
This card belongs to the anti tempo / anti combo package. It will sometimes replace a FOW and sometimes it will come in addition to FOW. A must have.
Beast Within
This card was elected for its ability to deal with "lands" & "Planeswalker". It will most likely replace, post side, a wish or a FOW against grindy matchups where you want more spot removal to keep you in the game. One can also consider a krosan grip in its place. The need for a card dealing with utility lands or Walkers will determine which one you want to use.
Mindbreak Trap
Against combo decks, this card can come in as FOW n°5 (instead of a wish). Depending on the deck you are facing you might even let it the side as a wish target.
If not, it is a good FOW replacement to avoid CDA in grindy matchups.
Engineered Plague
This card is usually the "deal breaker" against any swarm strategy or heavy aggro route. A powerful one-of that will lead you to victory against Merfolk, Elves, D&T, Goblins etc...
Crypt Incursion
Some of you have already questioned this card.
Games will likely be a grind feast and sometimes all you need is not another spot removal but something that will buy you "X" several turns to seal the deal.
1) Resolving it against Dredge is likely game.
2) I have wished for it, gain 15 lifes, wished for "Hatred" and killed sloppy opponents
3) I have wished for it to gain massive value out of a Deed or a Consume the Meek to bait my opponent in overextending himself.
4) I have wished for it, gain massive lifes to tank a few turns more and light was at the end of the tunnel...
Hatred
Haters will hate it.
This deck needed another way to seal the deal, obviously against combo decks before they can recover.
We spent a couple of hours looking for a very efficient way of "unfairness" against unfair decks.
As competitors (at least pretending competitors), we all know that live tournaments with a control deck are really difficult.
Pressure, time, fatigue can catch you out of guard and push you, against your will, in the draw bracket.
"Hatred" will reduce drastically the occurence of such scenario.
At least, it will give you some "free" wins (and free loses) but knowing that you can seal the deal in oneshot will help you a lot for G3.
A simple sentence "Ballz on the table" might get you a smile from your opponent while smashing their head onto the ground.
This is even more true when your opponent will not have seen it in G1 & G2.
Joke aside, take care. This card is the best way to put anyone on "tilt".
Collateral damage one would say.
Extirpate
Any pesky recurring stuff is annoying. Extirpate, unlike his bigger brother "surgical extraction" will put an end to it, for good.
Consume the Meek
The meek shall not pass. And this card ensures they won't. Ever. Basically, a pernicious without legs or a "Gotcha" coming from nowhere.
Don't ask me, you'll wish for it more than you think.
Flusterstorm
Mister "NO" shall not be presented anymore.
Duress
The weak spot. Thoughtseize n°2 without the life loss. I might over hedging againt Burn and Tempo strategies but well if you prefer playing with Thoughtseize n°2, it is up to you.
Golgari Charm
The GB swiss army knife. Cheaper than a deed when it has to, it also deals with...blabla, you know what I am gonna say (if not read the revenge fit part of the post)
Force of Will
Because Legacy is legacy.
Abrupt Decay
Usually one of your first (if not always) wish. Uncounterable and deals with Delver / Tarmo / anything =<CMC 3 like a champ.
Thanks for reading so far.. !!
Thanks for the post Ralf! I definitely came around on Crypt Incursion. It's been really great at dragging things out which is just perfect for the deck.
I must confess that I've mostly been playing a version of McDarbys old planeswalker list combined with your wishboard (with some slight changes to compensate for the durdle). It's horrible but I've been having so much fun with it.
Only 2 Demigod's left? The list is more starting to look like regular Jund NicFit without PFire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
Darkblast can be a complete hoser against some decks. Personally i might wanna try putting a Darkblast and a Tasigur together in one list, but not Jund.
REB has been "soft" for me aswell lately. Carpet of Flowers is a must in order to prevent losing ramping abilities when boarding out Veteran Explorer's. All but one, always. Sometimes it happens that there is a window of opertunity to Zenith or cast, sac, ramp into Slaughter Games or so. Generally i was also missing them on occassion when boarding them all out. While being dangerous vs matchups like reanimate or SnT, it does happen that you benefit more out of it then them.
REB and Carpet are no fillers of the same spot. I also think that 3 Blood Moon and 3 Slaughter Games is lot. So there is room to toy around with the board. Try mine as linked in my signature... and...
With dissapointing results against fast combo lands and 12post Blood Moon might be a good replacement for REB's in my build.
So basicly my board with -2 REB for 2 Blood Moon.
And you could replace Extirpate for Surgical Extration or something completely differen.
I'm glad those ideas serve you well as it was the original purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE
I didn't mean to build a Nic Fit deck around Demigods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
I was looking for something more straight forward than durdling with P.Fire, kind of a Big Jund with the ability to keep pressuring your opponent.
5 CMC drops (and even more with Demigods) can clog your hands if drawn too early.
The main deck is built to deal with fair decks and I guess the anti combo sideboard is a small price to pay to play such a deck.
I do think that resolving a Slaughter Games against any combo deck or blue control deck is what I want the most.
REB does not prevent you from being countered back and that is its major liability.
Furthermore, REB is only usable against blue decks which is somehow a pain in the butt.
But REB does help in some other MU where killing an unanswered delver is key.
From my point of view, we should not compare carpet with REB. We should compare REB with Slaughter.
Carpet is just another tool that gives you the ability to fire off a very quick Slaughter.
As I do think we are a proactive deck, REB is a poor tool for us. Holding mana where I could have played a threat is hurting really bad.
Some will say that it is mandatory and I don't think it is.
Given the fact that Leyline of Sanctity is, for now, gone from most sideboard strategies, I am a step before jumping to 4 Slaughter post side with 3 carpets.
Post side, with 4 DRS, 3 carpet, 1 Vet you should be able to fire a SLG almost "at will".
GP Lille is a fact!! Now time to figur out if i want to jam PFire or something else. And if PFire, how to finetune.
Edit: Or i could play Junk... those came in today:
http://s29.postimg.org/tfeis1hmv/20150528_135505_1.jpg
@Ganfur- I play 2 Tasigur in my BUG list. I run 4 delve spells with the split being 2 Dig and 2 Tasigur. I love him. He is cheap, you can cast him pretty early and is another source of card advantage. He is really good against cobmo where you can drop him as just a goyf and leave mana up to do other things. Bug is probably the best home for him but I don't see why a jund list on the fire plan (or even the demigod) wouldnt want him as a way to mill and find pfire. He also works well with the witness/gsz package if you run that.
I'll also attend GP Lille.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans