I'm curious about how well the green splash for grip works or you. Is it worth the lifeloss due to fetches?
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I'm curious about how well the green splash for grip works or you. Is it worth the lifeloss due to fetches?
I'm running this:
19 Mountain
2 Shivan Gorge
4 Goblin Guide
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
3 Magma Jet
3 Price of Progress
3 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Volcanic Fallout
3 Fireblast
Sideboard:
4 Ratchet Bomb
3 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroblast
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Sulfuric Vortex
I really really like the Vortex main. It lets you win the long game without hindering the short game. Also randomly hoses Rhox War Monk.deck Shivan Gorge is also quite good when you're in top deck mode.
It seems that there's more and more Bant aggro and Pro Bant in my area recently and it's been getting really difficult to win that matchup. A turn 2 or turn 3 Rhox War Monk makes the matchup seem really unwinnable.
I already run 2-3 sulfuric vortex in the maindeck but it just doesn't seem enough as they can counter it or just cast pridemages to kill it. Does anyone have any other ideas on how to stop that 3/4 lifelink monster? I was thinking of running Combust as it's uncounterable but I dislike running any spells in the deck that can't doesn't deal damage to players. Ideas?
Edit: I'm also running Breath of Darigaaz and ideally it can kill a war monk but usually by the time I get to 4 mana, they should have a counterspell ready so I don't like to rely on it.
The life loss is usually capped at about 3 or 4 in a game which isn't unreasonable but i think its well worth it to not autolose to chalice and counterbalance. Against zoo and goblins, the life loss can be annoying. Luckily the sweepers can be back-breaking against goblins as flamebreak and fallout are just wraths. Zoo build with lynx are more favorable because it allows out fallouts to do something. With this build, Rhox War Monk is a huge problem sometimes. Maybe I should have more in the board for it. I tried Breath but it costing 4 was just too much and it was really only good for me against Rhox War Monk
Heres the list I've been running. So far I haven't played in any large tournaments but after this weekend that won't be true and I'll let know how it does. But, at least in smaller more casual environments I have been very happy with its performance, however theres a lot of fish and goblins in my meta so I have a lot of laughable match ups (not like there isnt every where else but I mean a VERY large portion of the meta, like 50%+ is fish/goblins).
One thing I've noticed is the past few lists don't run grim lavamancer and/or fetchs. On paper he doesn't look to good (RR for 2dmg, RRR for 4dmg, etc) however, in practice he is a champ. Get him out 1st turn, and with the help of fetchlands, use him every turn from 2nd turn forward and it will almost double the amount of direct damage you are dishing out without requiring double the cards for it.
// Main Deck:
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Rift Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
4 Arid Mesa
10 Mountain
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills
// Sideboard:
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Smash to Smithereens
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Volcanic Fallout
At first,
I really have no clue why this Thread is on such a low level of competetive lists and full of weird cardchoices and lists which arent proofen in tourneys and couldnt win a single top 8 besides your local shop.
I have written for maybe 3 or 2 month a comment and I literally got NO response or reaction. Nothing.
The funny thing is that this isnt based on the fact that I have no clue about this deck or something. The thing is that this thread offers so much space for many cute cardchoices and so many people want to share their homebrew-decks and are not focusing on getting better, but the question is if that is the goal that is tried to be reached.
Nearly all other Threads on this site have got a rather high quality and are ment to get better results with the deck itself and try to improve lists and adapt to the actual metagame.
Why not here? Really.
Again, this is no offense but I think it would not be the badest thing if this thread becomes way more serious.
Burn/Sligh is a great deck and a deck to beat in the metas where you expect a lot of creature based and non CB-Blue Decks and I think it is one of the most underestimated ones.
But that definetly not means that every card where "deals blablabla damage to target X/Y" is playable... .
Imo ere are just 3 Versions of the deck where you are able to make top 8 out of larger tourneys.
One is the straight red version of Kyle Miller, the other two are both modified versions of it with a green or white splash.
Before I go into detail and find myself sorrounded by kitchentable players (which is not a bad thing at all, but not the place for those here on the source I think,yelling angry across this thread, I would like to know whats your oppinion on this threads quality (especially in comparison to other threads) and wishes how it should change (if this is wanted at all).
The thing is that I wont put energy into something where nothing comes back and a plan of becoming a better player of the deck or advancing the deck itself isnt followed.
The versions I am talking about (and which I am testing since I recognized their existences) made twice top8 out of 82 players (one piloted by myself) and made several top 8's in other countries. If there is more detail wanted and people are willing to focus on beeing competetive with this deck, I think this Thread could go somewhere.
Greetings
@ The Big R
Breath is actually really good against combo that decide to do Empty the Warrens. I've cast Breath several times on turn 2 or turn 3 and it's pretty much an auto win from there since they usually can't recover after an Empty the Warrens. But yeah, still doesn't solve the Rhox War Monk issue.
@ Brainswasher
No offense or anything but if you want to contribute to this thread and make it better, perhaps instead of complaining maybe you could come up with some constructive replies to questions that people have posted?
Problem with most posts on the burn thread is that people just tend to throw their list up and ask for suggestions but there's no other context on the post like what their metagame is like or even comments about what problems they are encountering. This makes it extremely hard to make good comments or suggestions.
This is the inherent nature of a burn thread. Burn is the quintessential cheap deck to play, and is draws an inherently casual crowd because of it. We've had 2 or 3 burn thread iterations on the Source, and almost all of them devolved into flame wars (no pun intended), name calling, and terrible card choices left and right.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the brainwasher
Another reason that you get so many "unproven" and "weird" card choices in this thread, and thus making the thread a have a low level of competitiveness, is because most people who do play this deck only play it at LGS's where certain cards find their niche and win them games. Burn is also, as a strategy, the type of deck where there are so many options that even having 1 or 2 weak slots in your deck can get you there. Don't have Chain Lightnings but you've got Incinerates? Slows you down a little but the effect of 3 to the dome is still there.
I think if you want to truly be competitive, burn probably isn't the deck you should be playing, but that doesn't mean it can't still compete in the proper metagame at a high level. You're more than welcome to discuss your list here, but know that as with any long thread (39 pages with my forum settings, most people don't have as many replies per page) there are going to be people suggesting cards you've already suggested, or dismissing them citing prior discussion. Also, it's difficult to trace back to 1 individual post without reading every single page of the thread, so one would need to be patient.
I'd suggest speaking to a moderator and asking if it'd be possible to open a new thread with a primer and the list or lists you are referring to as a starting basis, and having it replace this thread. But as burn has so many potential options, it's not likely there is ever going to be a truly optimized list, so that would be up to the Mod Staff's discretion. Doesn't hurt to ask though.
Honestly, I didn't read the whole thread and I don't personally play the deck. However, as a non-Burn player, I'm most scared of Burn when it splashes Black for Dark Confidant and Thoughtseize/Perish in the SB. An alternative would be splashing Green for Sylvan Library.
I think I have played online against you, may it be? I also love Kylle Miller version:Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the brainwasher
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...4&iddeck=11729
Sulfuric Vortex is a great card for this deck because it helps against its problems (Counterbalance, gain life, stability). Then, IMO it must be a 4of
I just like to do -1 Volcanic Fallout +1 Smash to Smithereens in Kylle Miller list. Decks with Stoneforge Mystic are becoming more relevant and Smash is fine to help with Sulfuric Vortex against Jitte/SOLAS and also fine to help with Vexing Shusher against COTV. Volcanic Fallout is a great card but it's not really a need against tribal because I think it's a good pairing anyway. On the other hand, I don’t like to cut any Vexing because mono-red versions haven't many creatures. (Anyway it depends on each meta)
For a diverse meta I prefer Lynx Burn because it gives you more options against Combo (one of the weaknesses of the deck). I’m currently playing this list:
// Lands
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [JGC] Bloodstained Mire
3 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
3 [OV] Mountain
3 [U] Plateau
// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Steppe Lynx
4 [ZEN] Goblin Guide
4 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
4 [PLC] Keldon Marauders
// Spells
4 [CHK] Lava Spike
4 [LG] Chain Lightning
4 [MPR] Lightning Bolt
4 [EX] Price of Progress
4 [TSP] Rift Bolt
4 [DD2] Fireblast
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [SC] Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 4 [WWK] Searing Blaze
SB: 3 [GTW] Duergar Hedge-Mage
SB: 4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
Duergar is worse than Vexing against Counterbalance but it can give you options against other enchantments. I run 3 Plateau instead of 2 due to it, but it's not really a big problem because it also helps the Lynx. I like Duergar over other Disenchantment effects because it can help against artifacts without needing white and it's also a little bear.
Anyway I need more test with them and with Canonist. I'm not yet sure if they are better than Pyrostatic Pillar. Has anyone tested Canonist in this deck?
Yes indeed, we played against eachother on MWS:wink:. GG's btw.
Yeah, I think its definetly a 4-0ff, the Vortex, if you play the mono-red version of the deck. I dont see that Jitte or that girl that usually fetches as such a problem. I normally board the Vortex OUT against those decks:laugh:. It sound wrong, but I follow the plan of "shhoting" the equipped creeps with Searing Blaze/Volcanic Fallout, and this worked out very good for me.
-3 Vortex, -4 other, +4 Searing Blaze, +3 Fallouts, thats a very decent way to go I think. This won me nearly all games against Maverick/Death&Taxes and others, which arent a bad MU at all in my experience.
In the last tourney, mentioned the post before, I played against Maverick in the 6th round and won with the mentioned sb-tech.
I wouldnt cut the 3rd Fallout because its such a big fat win against Folks, Gobs, Elves and other decks, which cant be replaced by handling a single artifact I think. In a meta wheres not that much CB I would rather cut 1 or 2 Shushers for Smash to Smithereens, because early Dreadnoughts are the shit against Burn, especially with Backup. Besides that, good Goblin-lists run at least 3 CotV and I dont want to spend that much Mana to play through it and the Shusher is obviously not that great against Fallouts which are also boarded in, besides that it can hit random Aether Vials which is not a bad target at all I think:laugh:.
To come back to detail, those Lists are the only playables if you want to be competetive with Burn/Sligh atm IMO:
Mono-Red-Burn:
12-13 Fetches (4 Scalding Tarn and 4 Wooded Foothils to bluff other decks(not common but I wouldnt give away that subtile advantage, leaving a fetch on the table when youve got no 1-drop to let your opponents thoughts open to what hes playing against).
7-8 Mountains
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
4 Sulfuric Vortex
Sb:
4 Pyrostatic Pillar/Mindbreak Trap
4 Searing Blaze
3 Volcanic Fallout
2-4 Vexing Shuhser
0-2 Smash to Smithereens
In some Metas I could see that Vortex in the sb. and Searing Blaze/Volcanic Fallout in the maindeck.
Boros/Lynx-Sligh:
14 Fetches
3-4 Mountain
2-3 Plateau
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Rift Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
Sb:
4 Pyrostatic Pillar/Ethersworn Cannonist
3-4 Searing Blaze
3-4 Sulfuric Vortex
3-4 Vexing Shusher/Duergar Hexmage
Those are just some sb-choices, I think the sb is in general more variable in Burn and can be easily tuned to the Meta. The maindeck is more or less very stiff and I wouldnt change it at all atm to be honest.
Goyf-Sligh:
13-14 Fetches
3-4 Mountains
3 Taiga
4 Kird Ape
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
Sb:
I dont see that here are such strong choices in the sb as in the other lists and here can be made some innovative choices, I play the following sb atm:
3 Searing Blaze
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Vexing Shuhser
2 Krosan Grip
3 Sulfuric Vortex
Those lists have advantages each in front of eachother and can be a more weak or solid choice depending on the meta. I played all those versions a lot against different archetypes and asked my opponents after some 2/3'a wht bothers them the most and what they've seen likely and wanted their oppinion on what of those versions are the best against their deck. This in combination with the experiences I've made created the thoughts shared with you in this comment.
I think in general It can be said that the Boros Version is stronger against Combo because of that 1st Turn Lynx which can win the game fast enough, especially postboard in combination with hate. The prob is that a late Lynx is a horrible topdeck and against deck that stall out and are more resilient against creeps its not that solid. The other thing is that you are more vulnerable due to the ammount of Duals (non-basics) which are great Wasteland targets and Pop deals also dmg to you. Especially a handled first turn Lynx can be a problem, especially of the lack of "lategame power" in form of that non existing Vortex in the maindeck.
The Straight Red version hasnt got the mentioned problems and is a overall more solid choice IMO. The thing is that it can be a problem not beeing able to have those lighting speed kills with that Lynx and Ethersworn Cannonist is a house against Combo which cant be duressed in comparison to the Pyrostatic Pillar. Duergar Hexmage is also a great card that gets rid of Leyline of Sanctity and Sphere of Law/CoP:Red which the Red Version has got no solution for, besides playing the Leyline of Punishment in the sb itself, which is a horrible card to be honest.
The Goyfsligh list isnt tested that much in front of the both other lists and I created it myself for maybe 3 weeks or some and it needs more test to make competent analysis and say what the clearly advantages/disadvantages are, but as far as Ive tested it and talked to my opponents, every single player told me that this a way bigger thread than Zoo to them and that they really had a hard time fighting the Deck, IF they won.
Thats it so far from me, Greetings!
You can just pyroblast it can't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big R
If you want to get Burn good at winning large tournaments, go take it to one and then post a tournament report. Right now most of the people here really don't care about big tournaments cause they don't compete in them (alright, I participated in SCG San Jose, but I did not run an optimized list simply because I did not want to spend a couple hundred bucks on grim lavamancers, goblin guides, and fetches).Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the brainwasher
Yep, it sounds wrong to me :tongue::laugh: With Vortex u can prevent problems with Equipments and also with STP. Of course, burn the equipped creatures with Searing blaze/Volcanic Fallout is a good plan. In fact, it was enough in your games as you said. I just say that I would board out other thing than Sulfuric Vortex.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the brainwasher
At this moment, I'm not very sure about Duergar. One of its advantages over Vexing is that it can deal with other artifacts apart from COTV. The problem is that I don't really know if it's worth against Jitte.
I'm also very confused at this moment about playing mono-red or with white splash. I think that Lynx Burn is better than mono-red in problematic matches. So, it makes sense to me playing it over mono-red, considering a big tournament. But how is the difference between them in those pairings?
I think that Lynx is good against Countertop because it can make a great damage before the coming of the lock, so it's usually a STP/FOW target. On the other hand, mono-red has Sulfuric Vortex in main that it's great against Counterbalance. Then, not a big difference IMO
Against combo Lynx is a great creature. Also white versions can run Ethersworn Canonist over Pyrostatic Pillar. Canonist can't be duressed but TES hasn't usually Burning Wish target to deal with Pillar, right? So I think it's hard to say which is better. I've also considered that it's not great to run 4 Canonist because it's not very useful to see 2 of them. (Same effect and both can be dealt with a single spree). So I think it's better to complement 3 of them with a single Mindbreak Trap or a single Pillar.
Against Leyline of Sanctity, Lynx can be very useful. Mono-red can also board in Volcanic Fallouts to help a little. I even board the Vexings... Anyway, I think that Leyline is not as dangerous as COP:Red. The game plan is hard/a little sad :laugh: but there are some options, even more if they go for an aggressive mulligan. Sulfuric Vortex can be a great help here.
About mono-red I love that u can run Vortex maindeck without problems (If I want to introduce Vortex I usually board Lynx out) and you also gain Volcanic Fallout that can ensure the tribal pairings.
…hard choice for me. What would be your choice for a big tournament/diverse meta?
I think if you really have no clue about the meta you are going to compete in, I would play Lynx-Burn or Goyfsligh. If you assume that there will be a lot of tribal and other heavy creature based decks (which are definetly played in the last time) I would play Mono.Red, thats what I did.
Personally, I would play Mono-Red all the time, but this is based on my love for Mono-colored decks and is nothing which is a competent statement overall, even I am thinking that the Mono-Red Version is for itself more stable.
As said before, I still think that Burn is one of the most underestimated Decks if you have a good version of it and know how to play it properly, which seems more easy at first sight than it is in the end, even if its one of the easiest decks of the format.
Went to a small tournament this weekend. I made some changes to the deck since I felt like there was going to be a lot of NO Bant or Bant aggro. First, here's the list:
13 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Barbarian Ring
4 Goblin Guide
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Magma Jet
3 Price of Progress
2 Breath of Darigaaz
3 Volcanic Fallout
3 Flamebreak
2 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Fireblast
Sideboard:
4 Urza's Rage
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Volcanic Fallout
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Combust
I totally retooled the sideboard to go against Bant. Combusts are mainly against Rhox War Monk and Urza's Rage would be uncounterable damage. I added the relic so I can kill creatures like goyfs and knights with Volcanic Fallout + Relic. Smash is there just for Jittes and vials.
Only 14 people at the tournament for 4 rounds and cut to top 8.
Round 1 - U/B Merfolk
He made some odd play decisions like deciding to chump block my guides by vialing in his cursecatchers in both games. I boarded in urza's rages, fallout and combusts against him and the combusts were actually fairly useful as they could pretty much kill any merfolk that carried a jitte and I didn't have to worry about counterspells.
Win 1-0 (2-0)
Round 2 - NO Bant
This was fairly horrible as he got countertop assembled by turn 3 and then turn 4 he played a war monk and he was able to counter my fireblast targeting the war monk. I didn't have much of a hand left after that so he took game 1 . Game 2, I boarded in all the Urza's rages, relics, fallout and combusts. I had 2 combusts in my opening hand but he led with 2 goyfs that were 4/5 by turn 4. I couldn't draw any of my relics and that's the end of that.
Lose 1-1 (2-2)
Round 3 - Zoo
These games were fairly depressing as game 1, he had 2 nacatls beating me down and my entire grip was magma jets and fallouts and I couldn't find a bolt/flamebreak at all. Game 2 wasn't much better as I had the flamebreaks in my hand but only had 2 land and he beat me down with a goyf and a nacatl. Also, it was pretty bad that I had nothing I could side in. I think i replaced the fallouts with rages but that doesn't seem very optimal.
Lose 1-2 (2-4)
Round 4 - Rock
Suck being matched up with a friend and it should be winner makes top 8. nothing much remarkable about this matchup except that I was worried that he would be able to plow a big knight in response to me killing him. that ended up happening but I was ready with more burn than he could handle.
Win 2-2 (4-4)
Top 8 - Zoo
Again, this was pretty depressing. Game 1 was totally my fault as I kept a 1 land hand with a goblin guide and 3 1cc burn spells but wasn't able to draw a land until turn 3 and by that time he had a 4/5 goyf in play and managed to bolt me and helix me as well. Game 2 was bad as well as he mulled to 4 and yet still was able to beat me. Apparently he mulled to 3 fetch and steppe lynx and proceeded to rip teeg, goyf and a helix. I was stuck on 2 lands and even cast 2 magma jets to get rid of 4 cards on top of my library and wasn't able to get a mountain so I could flamebreak away the teeg.
Lose 2-3 (4-6)
Afterthoughts:
This was one of the worst performances I've ever had with the burn deck ever. I have to admit that the sideboard didn't work out the way I planned. I never drew a relic all day long so I was never able to kill goyfs. Also, the deck had way too many cards at the 3 slot in the maindeck and sideboard. Felt that it made the deck very clunky. I used to like the Breaths but again, it just felt very underwhelming today. It never got to kill anything major or I was never able to get to 4 mana to sweep for 4. The Combusts was actually really good against merfolk which was something that I didn't really think about. I'll probably leave some combusts in the deck to make that matchup a bit easier to handle.
Changes I'd like to make
Maindeck: -2 Sulfuric vortex, -2 Breath of Darigaaz. Not really sure what I would like to replace it with right now but certainly something 2cc or less.
Sideboard: -1 Combust, -4 Urza's Rage, -4 Relic of Progenitus. I'll probably want to add in +3 Searing Blaze for sure so the aggro matchup become easier. Again, i'll have to think about the rest of the sideboard.
Any suggestions would be appreciated!
Alright, there you go.
I can just recommend the lists posted above by myself or Arzel Orfat (which are all based on the list of Kyle Miller, he earns the congrats if you ask me. He created a list which is just literally the best version you could play and made Burn competetive outside the niche of small tourneys and random wins).
Sounds easy (maybe a bit cocky) but I tell you that because those lists solve nearly all the problems you have with the deck by itself.
If you analyse those lists, you recognize that they combine the most efficient Burnspells of the Format with creatures that are all threats on their own and need to be handled in the early game (which are also the best one drops a Burn deck could ask for). Everything that doesnt fit in those categories isnt a good choice if it doesnt handle serious problems of the deck without having a huge drawback in other MU's.
Lets look at the cards of your deck that doesnt belong in this category:
Barbarian Ring:
Deals damage to you -> puts you behind in races. Makes you vulnerable to wastelands -> those are normally just dead and blow up THEIR lands in response to PoP's. Doesnt do anything in the early game. You really dont want to spent mana for saccing a land which deals 2 dmg, especially in combination with Fireblast where you cant sacc. it to.
Besides that, you want to spend your mana most of the times to other cards. The thought of having lategame power against decks where its necessary are solved by your sideboard or Sulfuric Vortex, which is also a house against Jitte and RWM.
Magma Jet:
2 Mana for 2 dmg is just awkward. I see the point of wanting cards that fix your draw a bit but this isnt necessary if you play more than 10 fetches (in combination with Grim also). The card is not able to let you race the opponents clock and is just underwhelming. Every card in the deck should deal 3 dmg for 1 Mana or at least 4+ for 2 or lesser mana. Again the card is ment to have lategame power but isnt very good at doing so, really. I guess this is the card where everyone else has got different thoughts on, but I tested it myself and it is NOT necessary in this deck and creates more problems for the deck than it solves any.
Breath of Darigaaz:
Looks nice but to be honest, you dont get in touch with 4 mana when you want to see that card. This is a absoluteley random win and hasnt got any consistency. Volcanic Fallout should sweep the board enough to put you ahead. Grim on RWM and then Volcanic Fallout seems better to me than playing Breathe and getting Dazed/Forced or whatever. When you play Breath kicked, you burn yourself for 4, which doesnt seem as such a good idea to me.
Flamebreak:
Doesnt hit Flying creatures and is counterable. The idea is to burn away Cats and Apes, but Searing Blaze does a better job here. 3 dmg to you isnt that good also. Not the badest card I've seen but still underwhelming.
Your list looks like you tried desperately to put yourself ahead via all those mini-board sweepers, but it turned out the other way around, and this isnt such a surprise IMO. Again, no offense.
It is way better to Burn out the opponent faster than he can hit you with his guys, which is impossible out of a nutdraw with your deck. Burn efficient, handle the few threads youll se in the games and win. Hoping desperatly that you resolve a boardsweeper which COULD save your ass is just wrong IMO.
I win most of the times against the decks you saw in that tourney and those ARE indeed good MU for Burn.
The lack of Sulfuric Vortex is also a huge disadvantage and I would add more of those rather than cutting any, besides you are willing to splash, then play it in side. Jitte, Rhox War Monk and StP on the own Goyf/KotR/Fat-Guy are not that bad when you got that in play.
Every single card fits just perfect in Millers list and again, I wouldnt change a single card in the non-land maindeck besides the Metadecision of moving Vortex to the sb., but I havent a good feeling at doing so to be honest. Vortex is huge.
I ended up going back to the exact Kyle Miller list (the one i was using before had MD searing blaze, SB sulfuric vortex). I played it at Jupiter Games lotus event last weekend and man did I have some unexpected results. Without going into too much detail: I LOST to fish BEAT enchantress and then LOST to goblins (all 2-1/2-1 respectively). The matchs were all a load of fun and a good experience but at that point i dropped, i wasnt going to make top 16 with 2 losses out of 3 rounds and terrible tie breakers.
In addition to having terrible luck against goblins and merfolk (have in mull to 5 in both matches) I think part of the loss might have been the MD sulfuric Vortex. Against fish my opening hand game one had 3 of them in it so I went to 6. And in goblins it was just a dead card game 1 cause it was a close race.
Sulfuric vortex helps with a lot of matchups but I really dont think I just justify running 4 of them MD. What are peoples thoughts on running them SB and the searing blazes MD like I had been doing prior to last week? I didn't test the MD sulfurics much, it was a last minute change and I just trusted it would do well since its a proven list so maybe, but after using them a lot I didnt really care for them as much as searing blazes.
The only problem I have then is that searing blaze I often find is a dead card too (like when its a just a cursecatcher in play, or they have no creatures at all). I tried steppe linx in that slot for a while too and, as amazing as it is turn 1/2, didn't care for it either cause in topdeck mode he's useless. For me at least, searing blaze, sulfuric vortex and steppe linx all seem just not quite right; relative to all the other cards in the deck, they are useless the most. I think this one slot in the deck has the biggest area for improvement.
Well, better for us. Less COP, Chill, etc :wink:Quote:
As said before, I still think that Burn is one of the most underestimated Decks
I think that Searing Blaze is a sideboard card (I haven't tested it in main). In fact, most of the lists go with them in side. Sulfuric Vortex is neither great in main but it won't be a dead card. The only problem I see with Sulfuric Vortex is that if you mull to a hand with a single land, its cost 3 can be painful. Vortex in main let you have those slots free in side. Patrick Sullivan ran Flame Rift instead of them. A mate of a spanish forum also proposed a list with Hellspark Elemental in those slots. IMO the best options are Vortex or Lynx.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect
I also wanted to continue with the Pillar/Canonist issue. What do u think that is better against Spiral Tide? Canonist is susceptible of Snap and Pillar of Spell Spierce. It seems difficult to say again... Could you illuminate me pls?:laugh:
I would prefer the Pyrostatic Pillar. I tested against Spiral/Spring Tide with Pillar and it always did a great job for me. Getting Snap!ed isnt that likeley as getting a Pillar bounced IMO. Getting Spell Pierced is awkward, but I think if its not the case, they spend most of the times 1-2 full turns +getting dmg in face to handle that Pillar, which is definetly necessary at some point.
As said above, I also see Mindbreak Trap in that Anti-Combo Slot, but Pillar is more flexible and wanders in in some other MU's as well.
I do understand your thought because most Tide lists play less Snap! to be resilient to Spot-Removal and here the Cannonist COULD do a better job, but I still prefer the Pillar. Finding Fireblast(s) due to Time Spiral is also kinda nice and whoops unskilled players asses, just a note.
I think this MU depends hardly on his list and sb, but is on the play winnable if you keep a decent hand, especially if he is playing much with the Faerie/Snap! mana engine, Spot removal? I got plenty!