Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
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Originally Posted by
tafit
I think the 2 sensei will help me to find bomb. I'm affraid to play only 3 brainstorm...
Instead of fact or fiction, what do you think about include Jace?
I recently put in the 3rd top (see last page), and it's oh god! absolutely amazing. With 3 mishra 3 waste, manipulating the deck under an early standstill il crucial. For jace, follow rockout's advice and read back some pages. Personally, I went to 3/3 split between standstill/jace, then went to 3/2/1 removing a jace for fof but this way I never used fof once, and so I added the 3rd top instead. I was firstly afraid of running 3x brainstorm, but top really is >>>> better. I see you do not fear wastelands... i'll try a basic swamp to fully abuse of MD and SB engines (vindicate, plague and the 3 EE's). I'll also suggest -1 EE +1 Nevinyrral's Disk: when you resolve the ultimate Elspeth ability it's nice to have an indestructible reset tool on the board (aggro-aggrocontrol decks can concede once the combo is online).
BTW, I just looked at the new cards spoilered and I'm glad to see that they've done a good job with MM, so i can stop seeing pikula's face every time I try to drop a mage ^^ The downside is that if you play with foils you have to wear sunglasses! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
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Originally Posted by
gustha
I recently put in the 3rd top (see last page), and it's oh god! absolutely amazing. With 3 mishra 3 waste, manipulating the deck under an early standstill il crucial. For jace, follow rockout's advice and read back some pages. Personally, I went to 3/3 split between standstill/jace, then went to 3/2/1 removing a jace for fof but this way I never used fof once, and so I added the 3rd top instead. I was firstly afraid of running 3x brainstorm, but top really is >>>> better. I see you do not fear wastelands... i'll try a basic swamp to fully abuse of MD and SB engines (vindicate, plague and the 3 EE's). I'll also suggest -1 EE +1 Nevinyrral's Disk: when you resolve the ultimate Elspeth ability it's nice to have an indestructible reset tool on the board (aggro-aggrocontrol decks can concede once the combo is online).
BTW, I just looked at the new cards spoilered and I'm glad to see that they've done a good job with MM, so i can stop seeing pikula's face every time I try to drop a mage ^^ The downside is that if you play with foils you have to wear sunglasses! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
As much as I do agree that top is nuts, I can't agree with putting a third copy in if your not running counterbalance. The chances become too high that you are going to see a second copy "more then likely a dead copy, unless they krosan grip and you don't have a ruins in play."
Bottom line it takes away from your actualy card advantage too much I think and should be limited to the standard x2 that has been tested thoroughly enough to back up this argument.
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BTW, I just looked at the new cards spoilered and I'm glad to see that they've done a good job with MM, so i can stop seeing pikula's face every time I try to drop a mage ^^ The downside is that if you play with foils you have to wear sunglasses! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh
I also checked her out and I was shocked, not only to see yet another chick, but also yet another blue card with flames. Its like the wish model I play has become a theme deck for chicks with fire and swords "not that im complaning."
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
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Originally Posted by
mossivo1986
As much as I do agree that top is nuts, I can't agree with putting a third copy in if your not running counterbalance. The chances become too high that you are going to see a second copy "more then likely a dead copy, unless they krosan grip and you don't have a ruins in play."
Bottom line it takes away from your actualy card advantage too much I think and should be limited to the standard x2 that has been tested thoroughly enough to back up this argument.
i've strongly considered counterbalance, but I think that if wanted to run cb top engine I'd have shifted towards MUC or dreadstill. I do also agree that the 3rd copy raises the percentage of making a copy of SDT mathematically dead, but:
a) I always want to see SDT on t1-2, depending if I'm on the draw or on the plat; moreover, with 6 shuffles effects (more if crucible-dragon recursion is online) the chance to see the 3rd copy is not that high.
b) the choices for that slot were:
1) another mass removal, maybe path to exile; I'm still considering it;
2) another mass removal; I don't think that would be a right call, since I got back to humility;
3) 4th brainstorm; this is also another option, but I find myself really comfortable with the 3 brainstorm approach;
4) singleton e tutor again; just another option, I'm not really enthusiastic with the idea, but it's a strong slot however;
5) another jace; went down to 2 recently, the 3rd is really too heavy;
6) singleton fof; discarded: top jace and brainstorm made fof really useless;
7) 4th landstill: meta full of wastelands and/or other manlands, adding the episthemic certainty that when I hide behind standstill my opponent becomes the lord of topdeck.
Of this 7 ideas, singleton path and singleton etutor are the favourites (didn't count the 3rd vindicate, though).
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I also checked her out and I was shocked, not only to see yet another chick, but also yet another blue card with flames. Its like the wish model I play has become a theme deck for chicks with fire and swords "not that im complaning."
Maybe, with all those recent changes in the sets, Wizards' employees are passing too much time with figurines and less at home... :tongue:
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
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i've strongly considered counterbalance, but I think that if wanted to run cb top engine I'd have shifted towards MUC or dreadstill.
MUC? Do you remember what your mother said about doing drugs? Just say no man, CB is terrible in MUC. I will explain this more in a private messege because of how rediculously long this argument actually is against it.
I do also agree that the 3rd copy raises the percentage of making a copy of SDT mathematically dead, but:
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a) I always want to see SDT on t1-2, depending if I'm on the draw or on the plat; moreover, with 6 shuffles effects (more if crucible-dragon recursion is online) the chance to see the 3rd copy is not that high.
This is Y.et A.nother R.eason T.o R.un W.ish. First off dragon and crucible in landstill is not only outdated and slow, one is often useless without wasteland, the other is most of the time a filter "not a win condition" These two slots have much better slots so theres no random crucible filter argument allowed, because they simply shouldn't be there. Crucible is highly effective comming in from the sideboard in random messeges and dragon is randomly good in EXTREMELY random situations where your basicly already either winning or the game has come to a standstill. In which case you'd proboboly be winning anyways if you hadn't used your 12 mana 5/5 with evasion. Bottom line both are simply too slow to work in the current metagame.
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b) the choices for that slot were:
4 bs
2 TOP
1 FOF
3 Standstill
That seems fairly obviously to me, switch FOF with Jace if you want to, but honestly that setups been working for many people i've both partnered with and tested against since probobly december if not earlier.
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1) another mass removal, maybe path to exile; I'm still considering it
2) another mass removal; I don't think that would be a right call, since I got back to humility;
You wont need any more mass removal if you running
4 stp
3 ee
3 wrath "or humility split"
Youll have approximately four utility cards with this approach to landstill "evening the numbers" which allows you to consider if you'd rather play more aggresively "speedstill" or have a safer long game and much safer landbase "wish still" Either way these are the two best approaches right now to landstill, just look at the numbers on deck check magic-league and/ or tourney reports here.
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3) 4th brainstorm; this is also another option, but I find myself really comfortable with the 3 brainstorm approach;
Isn't Brainstorm the best draw spell in the format? Why would you play 3x when its restricted in vintage for being too powerfull?
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4) singleton e tutor again; just another option, I'm not really enthusiastic with the idea, but it's a strong slot however;
Singleton e-tutor was randomly amazing for me, but I agree in the sense that i'd be meh about it as well.
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5) another jace; went down to 2 recently, the 3rd is really too heavy;
so then you must be more like this:
3 bs
3 standstill
2 jace
3 top
? In which case top still looks out of place at the 11th slot and id cut one or a jace. if you chose jace id stick it to the side for good will! She seems slightly amazing.
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6) singleton fof; discarded: top jace and brainstorm made fof really useless;
Id like to hear more about this.
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7) 4th landstill: meta full of wastelands and/or other manlands, adding the episthemic certainty that when I hide behind standstill my opponent becomes the lord of topdeck.
agreed but FOF is the fourth standstill so you can still play your spells. More on "singleton fof; discarded: top jace and brainstorm made fof really useless."
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Of this 7 ideas, singleton path and singleton etutor are the favourites (didn't count the 3rd vindicate, though).
Vindicate is your other option because of utility removal. Well that and wish, but in your case id go with vind.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mossivo1986
MUC? Do you remember what your mother said about doing drugs? Just say no man, CB is terrible in MUC. I will explain this more in a private messege because of how rediculously long this argument actually is against it.
Man, it's 2 night i cannot sleep for god only knows what reason, and had already finished talking with a friend of mine that wanted my set of fow to build MUC for the same torunament i play in (with that set of fow, ofc!). Be comprehensive! :tongue:
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This is Y.et A.nother R.eason T.o R.un W.ish.
It's longe since I gave up wish and I'm very well, thanks ^^
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First off dragon and crucible in landstill is not only outdated and slow, one is often useless without wasteland, the other is most of the time a filter "not a win condition" These two slots have much better slots so theres no random crucible filter argument allowed, because they simply shouldn't be there.
My question is: what are these better slots? I well know that dragon is a little slow for the meta (even if the last tournament was full of aggro and 45% of my games dragon was on the table), and cruci too is slow. Probably you're right in saying that'll be good to swith the vindicate form my sb in the slot of the MD crucible. My fear is that I have 6 + 3 + 1 + 1 = 11 colored fonts, and lots of wastes to face...
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Youll have approximately four utility cards with this approach to landstill "evening the numbers" which allows you to consider if you'd rather play more aggresively "speedstill" or have a safer long game and much safer landbase "wish still" Either way these are the two best approaches right now to landstill, just look at the numbers on deck check magic-league and/ or tourney reports here.
I do look. The fact is that i do really like the aggressive approach of speedstill (stick to my crucible, my wastes and my doj's :tongue: ) but I also want a deck to be capable of a safer long game without using wish. I know I'm a man of difficult tastes :laugh:
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Isn't Brainstorm the best draw spell in the format? Why would you play 3x when its restricted in vintage for being too powerfull?
Simply because top + jace is nuts.
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Singleton e-tutor was randomly amazing for me, but I agree in the sense that i'd be meh about it as well.
Yeah, but better improve the draw engine.
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so then you must be more like this:
3 bs
3 standstill
2 jace
3 top
? In which case top still looks out of place at the 11th slot and id cut one or a jace. if you chose jace id stick it to the side for good will! She seems slightly amazing.
Atm, i'm thinking of cutting a top for the 4th brainstorm (to re-raise the blue count), but i've not discarded path to exile.
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Id like to hear more about this.
I've tested 2 months this configuration:
3 bs
3 still
2 jace
2 top
1 fof
And really, I can't remember a single game in which I used fof. :confused: So I simply discarded it... The others did well without it, and every time I drew fof has always been a dead card (or a good pitch).d
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Vindicate is your other option because of utility removal. Well that and wish, but in your case id go with vind.
The only thing i'd cut for vindicate, atm, is dragon...the 4th brainstorm can easily replace him...
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Hello!
I have been working on a deck designed to be decent against Aggro-Loam, Merfolk, and Counter-Top (good luck with that, right?), as all three are fairly common in my metagame. The deck is very similar to Landstill, with a few changes, and I would appreciate any comments you might have. I have tried to move away from slower or "clunky" card choices in this build.
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Diabolic Edict
3x Engineered Explosives
3x Vedelkan Shackles
3x Spell Snare
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
3x Draw Spell - I am very unsure about this slot. Jace, Thirst for Knowledge, and Fact or Fiction are all being tested.
3x Cunning Wish
2x Isochorn Scepter
3x Sense's Diving Top
2x Hoofprints of the Stag - Again, I'm unsure about what, if any, win condition needs to go here. Tombstalker, Eternal Dragon, and a few others may be better.
2x Acadamy Ruins
4x Mishra's Factory
1x Plains
3x Tundra
2x Underground Sea
4x Flooded Strand
1x Polluted Delta
6x Island
SB
4x Extripate
4x Path to Exile
3x Counterbalance
1x Return to Dust - I'm considering Disenchant due to Scepter
1x Counterspell
1x Orim's Chant
1x Fact or Fiction
Notable absences;
Wrath of God - Double white can be rough, especially with the Island heavy build. Also, while it is very powerful is key situations, the high amount of targeted removable and Explosives might make it redundant main deck.
Humility - Similar to Wrath. It takes four mana and double white.
Standstill - There are a large amount of Merfolk/Faeries/Fish-like decks in my meta running their own Standstills, and with Vial and Mutavault, and the lack of Decree in here, they have the advantage under Standstill.
The high amount of creature hate coupled with Spell Snare should help ensure a decent early game, with Shackles and Scepter (and Ruins + Explosives) helping later on. However, the deck has a glaring weakness to Grip and Trygon Predator, with many of the key cards being targetable. Also, the win is exceedingly slow (Extripate on Scepter, Factory beats, Shackled Creature beats, or Hoofprints), giving the other player a long time to draw out of a bad situation as the deck lacks powerful effects like Moat or Humility.
Thoughts on the deck?
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
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4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Diabolic Edict
3x Engineered Explosives
3x Vedelkan Shackles
3x Spell Snare
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
3x Draw Spell - I am very unsure about this slot. Jace, Thirst for Knowledge, and Fact or Fiction are all being tested.
3x Cunning Wish
2x Isochorn Scepter
3x Sense's Diving Top
2x Hoofprints of the Stag - Again, I'm unsure about what, if any, win condition needs to go here. Tombstalker, Eternal Dragon, and a few others may be better.
2x Acadamy Ruins
4x Mishra's Factory
1x Plains
3x Tundra
2x Underground Sea
4x Flooded Strand
1x Polluted Delta
6x Island
SB
4x Extripate
4x Path to Exile
3x Counterbalance
1x Return to Dust - I'm considering Disenchant due to Scepter
1x Counterspell
1x Orim's Chant
1x Fact or Fiction
Lack of Vendillion clique makes me cry. If your playing against loam vendillion is gold. Its also a solid beater in the merfolk matchup and its also rediculous against counter-top decks because it -a- is unstoppable unless they play tygon predator and -b- kills tygon predator.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
The first thing I noticed is the lack of countermagic. 4 FoWs are great but 3 snares as backup isn't going to cut it imo.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
I think I like to play more of a reactive game with this deck than many people. I wasn't fond of the planeswalker as a draw engine; I preferred to play FoF at my opponent's EOT instead of 3 on my own turn. In a deck like this, I find that timing to be the crucial difference. I also like the immediacy of FoF's draw power, you can use it to dig instead of just ramp up CA over quite a few turns.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
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Originally Posted by
rsaunder
I think I like to play more of a reactive game with this deck than many people. I wasn't fond of the planeswalker as a draw engine; I preferred to play FoF at my opponent's EOT instead of 3 on my own turn. In a deck like this, I find that timing to be the crucial difference. I also like the immediacy of FoF's draw power, you can use it to dig instead of just ramp up CA over quite a few turns.
Tru dat.
Also, FoF cannot be burned or attacked.
And I think that represents a fundamental difference in the philosophy of people who are playing this deck. There are some people that want to go one-for-one on threats with a bunch of small removal spells, and then there is the group of people who wants to use bigger card-advantage and generally higher cost cards to swing the game. I wonder if finding the distinctions between the sub-types of current Landstill and splitting the lists again would promote growth for both archetypes.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
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Originally Posted by mossivo1986
Lack of Vendillion clique makes me cry. If your playing against loam vendillion is gold. Its also a solid beater in the merfolk matchup and its also rediculous against counter-top decks because it -a- is unstoppable unless they play tygon predator and -b- kills tygon predator.
Vendillion Clique is a possibility. Losing Hoofprints, a Top, and possibly and Edict would allow for 4 Cliques, a more stable mana base, and a much faster potential win. I'll run that through my testing.
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Originally Posted by Ectoplasm
The first thing I noticed is the lack of countermagic. 4 FoWs are great but 3 snares as backup isn't going to cut it imo.3
Against my projected metagame, do you feel that I would need additional Countermagic? Remember, there is a high density of low CC removal present in the deck, with a potential 8 Swords and 3 Edicts post board. At the last event, I believe there was a single combo deck present, and it was vulnerable to Swords. What makes Countermagic more effective than recurring board control via Explosives, Scepter, or Shackles?
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Originally Posted by rsaunder
I think I like to play more of a reactive game with this deck than many people. I wasn't fond of the planeswalker as a draw engine; I preferred to play FoF at my opponent's EOT instead of 3 on my own turn. In a deck like this, I find that timing to be the crucial difference. I also like the immediacy of FoF's draw power, you can use it to dig instead of just ramp up CA over quite a few turns.
Noted. It is also useful to note that I have better spells to play on turn three, generally also.
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Originally Posted by Master Shake
Tru dat.
Also, FoF cannot be burned or attacked.
And I think that represents a fundamental difference in the philosophy of people who are playing this deck. There are some people that want to go one-for-one on threats with a bunch of small removal spells, and then there is the group of people who wants to use bigger card-advantage and generally higher cost cards to swing the game. I wonder if finding the distinctions between the sub-types of current Landstill and splitting the lists again would promote growth for both archetypes.
Oddly enough, while building the deck I didn't even think of Landstill...only after I looked at the completed list did I realize the similarities.
For the decks I'm gunning against, the high mana sinks of older Landstills simply didn't have enough power to justify them. Getting four 1/1 tokens and drawing a card is pathetic compared to having a 5/6 for two. Wrath is frequently a one for one against everything except Merfolk, and if you get the point where Wrath is awesome against them, something is going wrong. Eternal Dragon is outclassed by 'Goyf, Crusher, and Thrasher. Standstill has become a liability in quite a few matches. I have been trying to substitute these cards with lower mana (Or at the very least less color intensive) powerful cards, such as Shackles or Scepter. Testing will show which is better in each metagame. Thanks for the responses so far!
- On Scepter - Yes, it's a potential two-for-one. Yes, there are times when it's dead (one of the reasons I'm considering Thirst for Knowledge). However, when unanswered (generally pre-board) a STP/Edict/Chant/Extripate stick is insane.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
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Originally Posted by
Master Shake
I think that represents a fundamental difference in the philosophy of people who are playing this deck. There are some people that want to go one-for-one on threats with a bunch of small removal spells, and then there is the group of people who wants to use bigger card-advantage and generally higher cost cards to swing the game. I wonder if finding the distinctions between the sub-types of current Landstill and splitting the lists again would promote growth for both archetypes.
I would agree with this but it would be very difficult to establish exactly what cards were played in whitch lists. The Speedstill list is obvioulsy the attrition based strategy without Wrath but the slower decks all still run a pile of attrition cards. Regardless the thread is nowhere near as bad as when we had the UW/x lists mixed in with the 4 color deed builds.
So I tested out my experimental list yesterday at a 46 person Mox Saphire event. Regrettably two of the cards I needed for the deck were still in the mail so this isn't the exact build I intended but the 2 Substitutions weren't really that much of a drawback.
MD
3x Brainstorm
3x Standstill
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Jace
3x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
3x Cunning Wish
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Wrath of God
1x Moat
1x Humility
1x Eternal Dragon
3x Decree of Justice
1x Ajani Goldmane
1x Elspeth
1x Vindicate
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Crucible of Worlds
24x Lands
SB
1x Path of Exile
3x Orim's Chant
1x Pulse of the Fields
1x Return to Dust
1x Fracturing Gust
1x Spell Snare
1x Counterspell
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Extirpate
1x Tsabo's Decree
2x Runed Halo
1x Engineered Explosives
Now like I said this was an expiremental build and I didn't have exactly the cards I wanted but after testing I have been happy with how this build plays out. It does put alot of pressure on you not to make mistakes as the deck is very unforgiving but it usually wins regardless of what your opponent can throw at it.
Round 1 vs Moon Thresh with Counterbalance: lose 1:2
Ok so the deck has two weak spots one being Ichorid and the other being Counterbalance decks that run REB in the SB. Well fuck what a way to kick off the new deck than with it's worst match up. Game one of round one against a bad match up and I get Mana screwed early and lose to CB pretty hard core. Make some small SB changes and ride out the win in game 2 on the back of Moat. Game 3 he drops a turn one Goose and I drop a turn 2 Standstill with Decree and a Third Land in hand, he lets it hit and I'm thinking I have the game about wrapped up when it takes me 12 turns to find my 4th land when I open handed 3. What was looking good turns to shit rapidly and I lose round one. Proceed to shuffle repeatedly.
Round 2 vs F2K9: win 2:0
I doubt anybody else knows what F2K9 is but a fellow team member of mine plays it and it's a 4 color aggro control deck with numerous Plainswalkers. So the day is looking great so far, lose round one and now play my teammate who also lost and rode with me meaning one of us was done for the day after round 2 not to mention he knows my list and plays more Plainswalkers than I do. Game one we go back and forth for the first 7 or 8 turns trying to get some kind of board dominence and with his last card in hand he sticks a Garruck, thankfully on the following turn I stick my last card in hand Moat. By the time he can find his MD Krosan Grip he is too far into the late game and Landstill does what it does best. Game two I gain early card advantage and he is already out of it by turn 10 or so and decides to scoop so we can go smoke.
Round 3 vs Ichorid: win 2:0
So I haven't done any real testing with the deck yet seeing as I've only played a match I don't want to see and my friend who I know my deck can beat already. I remember sitting down for round 3 thinking just give me something to test this list out against, well fuck the kids playing Ichorid. Karma didn't apperar to be on my side so far today until he dredged twenty cards without hitting a Bridge, Narcromeoba or Ichorid. I capitalize on his misfortune and take game one after having time to set up a decent Mana base and drawing multiple Decree's. I have a decent Ichorid match up but it's still something I don't want to run into, do some small SB'ing and I draw up a solid hand while my opponent apparently kept a shaky one. Force of Will on a Putrid Imp followed shortly after by Runed Halo on Ichorid and the games was mine shortly after.
Round 4 vs Nassif's list: win 2:0
I take game one quickly after STPing two Bob's and then wasting a Tropical Island followed with Extirpate on it. He scoops to Extirpate not wanting to show me his deck. I assume at this point that it is either Nassif's exact list or something very close to it. I don't remember a ton about game 2 but I kept Counterbalance out of play and took a quick win.
Round 5 vs Canadian Thresh: win 2:0
God I am so prepared for this match up it is sad, it's also sad that you have come extremely prepared for this deck or you won't beat it. Game one is incredibly in my favor and I take a quick win. Game two he did what that deck does best and drew every card he needed when he needed it including the first turn Goose. He Stifled two EE and Spellsnared two Runed Halo, used a Force of Will to Stop my Force on the Goose initially and to Stop my turn 6 Wrath. He did however run out of steam and when my turn 7 Moat resolved followed by a turn 8 Ajani it was pretty much game over. I think he scooped once my life total got in the 60's.
Round 6 vs Fish/Faeries: lose 1:2
Due to my round one loss I am at the bottom of the tie breakers and am forced to play out round 6 along with my frustrated opponent who could have drawn in. Sadly bad tie breakers was to be the downfall of my day. Game one I open up 2 lands, Waste and Plains, 2 STP, Force, Standstill and Wrath of God. I don't know what I'm playing against but I decide to keep. Well his turn 2 Meddling Mage on STP and me never drawing a third land in 10 turns pretty much ended game one for me. Proceed to shuffle extensivly and remember that I might not have shuffled up the deck after the last round in my haste for nicotine. Take a crushing win in game two and see that he running Faeries with Goyf and Mage. Immediatly from the start of game 3 he begins to slow play. I mean retarded like taking almost two minute's to think about every single spell I have cast and each of his main phases, way to be a douche bag buddy. Regrettably I realize that if we draw he makes top 8 and could care less where I have to win to make it. So I start to play as aggressively as possable making angel tokens and burning counter magic to try and keep them alive but he boarded all of his removal and disruption into the deck with the intent of drawing. I end up losing to a pair of Mutavaults with my resources spent on trying to steal a quick win in time. Lame but I like the deck and if hadn't slow played I am certain that I would have won game 3 playing the deck like it is meant to be played.
Top 16 event for a Mana Drain:
So Eli in his infinite kindness runs a seperate event for top 16 players giving out a Mana Drain to both first and second place, thank you Eli.
Round 1 vs UGR Dreadstill: win 2-0
This is another one of those damn Counterbalance decks that run REB so it isn't my favorite match up but atleast he wasn't trying to sneak in Magus of the Moon or have Goose like the Moon Thresh guy did so the match went pretty smoothly in my favor both games.
Round 2 (Finals of top 16) vs UW Landstill with Mindslaver lock: win 2-1
Well I can't exactly call his deck Landstill but I don't know if Lam Phan has a name for his deck but it played Waste, Factory, Faerie Conclave, Crucible, Mindslaver, Enlightened Tutor, Standstills, Academy Ruins and all sorts of various utility cards that could be played in Landstill. Thank god for no time limit because I think this took us about 2 and a half hours to play out the 3 games. Game one we are both chocking up on excessive craeture removal and he is able to take game one with Mindslaver. I have never played against Lam but I have heard he is really good player so I board carefully and with a set strategy to play against his deck. I am able to Extirpate his Counterspells out and ride a late game Jace for the win. Game 3 he go's to his SB and makes some changes. Apparently he didn't like his chances in the long drawn out control match so he boarded in Exalted Angels and try's for a quick win. I am able to stop two early angel's using everything in my hand except one card and depleting his hand. The one card in my hand, Elspeth for the quick win.
So going 6-2 for the day and winning myself an English Mana Drain I have to say I am quite happy with the list. Regrettably the cards I was missing would have helped in both the rounds I lost but I will have them for the next event since they both came in Saturdays mail, figures.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
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Originally Posted by
gustha
And really, I can't remember a single game in which I used fof. :confused: So I simply discarded it... The others did well without it, and every time I drew fof has always been a dead card (or a good pitch.)
FOF a dead card? How the ...? FOF says IFUCKINGWINTHEGAMEKTHXBAI.
Geoff, we've lured you to the dark side. Congrats on finally playing Elspeth. The first step to quicker wins and harder to deal with win conditions. The new list is interesting, but the I think more enchantments are needed.
More details to come once I throw it together and test.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
I'm not going to say to ANY of u, "I told you so". Hopefully you all get the point. :)
p.s. I feel like a gluttonous asshole right now. muahahaha
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rockout
Geoff, we've lured you to the dark side. Congrats on finally playing Elspeth. The first step to quicker wins and harder to deal with win conditions. The new list is interesting, but the I think more enchantments are needed.
I've been running Elspeth in my SB since before the GP, I like the card I just don't like it better than Decree. I think it's is a fantastic suplemental card for Landstill. I doubt I would ever play more than one though.
As to the more Enchantments both of the cards I was missing were Enchantments. I'd say what they were but I may as well save them for the Surprise factor in my next event.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
I still don't run cunning wish, probably never will. I remember when you said you would never run vindicate and I remember you calling me saying, "I have to run vindicate now." So, there, "I told you so."
That was to mossivo1986.
Wait, so here is the triangle. I told Konsultant to run Elspeth. Mossivo told Geoff to run Wish. Geoff told me to run Vindicate. I told Mossivo to run Elspeth. Mossivo told me to run Clique. So it's one big love triangle-jerk of landstill genius floating around between us.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rockout
FOF a dead card? How the ...? FOF says IFUCKINGWINTHEGAMEKTHXBAI.
That's why I put it in the list :laugh: but I found it of no use, never used once because the top+jace engine works lotta better!
However, bad days to me yesterday (50 or so people tournament). Went 3-3 were I could have done far better: lost to merfolks and belcher, all the times 3 games = 3 mull to 5 :frown: Even the 3rd match vs ichorid would've gone far better if I didn't mull to 5 to see 1 of the 9 cards sided in :cry: The meta has sharply shifted from control (landstill were 35-40% of the field till november) to aggro/aggrocontrol. Yesterday there were (as far as I could saw) one or two aggroloam, some rogue decks, 3 or 4 belcher, zoo, some sligh, white weenie, ichorid, 4-5 threshold. I've been thinking about my list, found wrath and decree to be a little outdated for the actual meta here, and crucible slow but necessary. I really like the speedstill approach which I feel more suited for the decks I've to face, still there's something missing. Some remarks by mossivo (thank you) lead me to think to a "hybrid" version. It's still a draft, so please don't be too cruel :smile: Here's what I have in mind:
// Lands
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [B] Tundra
3 [TE] Wasteland
1 [R] Underground Sea
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [TSP] Swamp (1)
1 [R] Scrubland
2 [APL] Plains (3)
3 [RAV] Island (4)
// Walker, Texas Rangers
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 [LRW] Jace Beleren
// Draw/Tutor Engine
3 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [OD] Standstill
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
(also Jace fits in here)
// Removals
1 [A] Nevinyrral's Disk
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [AP] Vindicate
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
2 [TE] Diabolic Edict
// Permission
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [A] Counterspell
// Other Stuff
1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
1 [TE] Humility
1 [JU] Cunning Wish
1 [MR] Isochron Scepter
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 2 [LRW] Ajani Goldmane
-----------
SB: 1 [PS] Orim's Chant
SB: 1 [PLC] Exirpate
SB: 1 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SN: 1 [CNF] Path to Exile
The landbase is identical with the one I have atm. Maybe the 3 waste slot could be a 1x dust bowl and +2 colored lands, or +1 mishra + 1 colored lands, but I guess that shoul be a meta call, atm it works fine. Brainstorm went down to 3 again to make room for the 4th spell snare (i re-thought about what you told, me, mossivo, and yesterday I really almost always wanted to have the 4th copy). The change from CS to vendilion clique is something I'd like to discuss much further. I fear clique would be good only in a meta full of control and loam decks (is it really so effective against aggro?), which is no more my meta (sigh!), but the potential of the card is something about I'd really want suggestions. This, however, leads to a very consistent 4/4/2 split, likely to be effective when facing low cc and counterbalance! Enlightened tutor covers an important role, allowing us to access what we need when we need it, or at least virtually doubling our tools. Is not a secret that it's a powerful card, maybe it's time to get him back. It also gives another chance to 1x crucible, card I really am not likely to separate from. The removal tools proudly welcome diabolic edict, while path to exile remains sb, and see vindicate cut to 2x. I've medited alot on this, and I'd really want there be a open slot to fit the 3rd vindicate, because it's a fantastic card. The reason of this cut is the coming back of a singleton cunning wish, which fetches utilities from the sb and it's amazing if paired with the stick. A good target of etutor is obviously, in fact, isochron scepter. I thought about a singleton vedalken shackles, but I think stick is more powerful especially preboard, when usually there's no answer to it. wish + orim + stick is capable of stopping aggro fairly enough, but we also have plenty of cards to imprint on it: CS, stp, diabolic edict. In case of need, even etutor. As a 1 of, it's never a dead card, as for wish. Probably, we might fix the weight of the wish-still/vindicate-still approach in the sb. In a meta full of combo maybe -3 mage +3 orim's chant is a better call then the actual. However, wish gives access to a small toolbox that doesn't steal too much room, making stick a good weapon also postboard.
Tx for the reading, please don't trow objects at me :laugh:
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rockout
I still don't run cunning wish, probably never will. I remember when you said you would never run vindicate and I remember you calling me saying, "I have to run vindicate now." So, there, "I told you so."
That was to mossivo1986.
Wait, so here is the triangle. I told Konsultant to run Elspeth. Mossivo told Geoff to run Wish. Geoff told me to run Vindicate. I told Mossivo to run Elspeth. Mossivo told me to run Clique. So it's one big love triangle-jerk of landstill genius floating around between us.
I think you may be very right about the 61 being a land. My land drops have been perfect today. I added a delta to my list.
For referance:
Code:
// Lands
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [MM] Dust Bowl
4 [B] Tundra
1 [B] Underground Sea
1 [B] Scrubland
3 [GUR] Island
3 [GUR] Plains
3 [JGC] Mishra's Factory
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
// Creatures
2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
// Spells
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [TE] Humility
2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [OD] Standstill
2 [JU] Cunning Wish
1 [DD2] Fact or Fiction
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
2 [6E] Wrath of God
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [TSP] Return to Dust
SB: 1 [SHM] Fracturing Gust
SB: 1 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 1 [IA] Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 1 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 3 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [LRW] Ajani Goldmane
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Mossivo: I think the exact number increase is 5.9% but I am on my lunch break. I'll have to actually do the math the confirm the percentage increase.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
To Konsultant: Did you ever get the Elspeth + Ajani tagteam on the table? It should be marvelous.
