Can you share your experience with Gavony Township? It looks interesting to me, especially against mirrors or other grindy matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by lambert101
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Can you share your experience with Gavony Township? It looks interesting to me, especially against mirrors or other grindy matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by lambert101
How useful is gut shot in the mirror?
I haven't read a lot of this thread, so my question may have already been answered, but have people pretty much given up on Stoneforge Mystic? Is it too slow? take up too much space? I just don't understand, its still super powerful isn't it?
Gut shot is the nut high in the mirror. Also to the above poster I have gone back to the Stoneforge Mystic package here in recent weeks on MTGO with the upswing of tribal decks. Stoneforge just flat out eats those decks and Batterskull versus Esper is great.
I love how Maverick has remained a strong deck over the months, just with a few minor adaptations along the way.
I Gut Shot'd a Mom last night and it felt divine.
I'm curious about some sideboard choices being used nowadays. For gravehate: in the most recent SCG event, the three Mavericks who placed in the Top 8 weren't using one single Surgical Extraction. Instead, they've got 2 or 3 Faerie Macabre. (Of course they have Bojuka Bog + 0-2 Crop Rotation, and Ooze MD.) Aren't they worried about Dredge at all?
Then, for enchantment/artifact hate: why no Krosan Grips in those SCG lists? Humility is rarely seen but when it rears its head Harmonic Sliver doesn't help, and then there's the resurgence of CounterTop... Anyone else here dig KGrip over the Sliver?
I really like krosan grip. Especially with batterskull making a resurgence.Quote:
Originally Posted by delcameron
The problem with Grip is that you can't tutor for it so you have to run it in multiples.
I like O-Rings myself since they're just so flexible and tutorable if you run an eTutor board.
Hey guys I am getting back to Maverick after playing aloot with Miracle. I just built a manabase myself and wanted to double-check it with you. It's geared to beat RUG + Miracle.
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
So.. why 2 Cavern of Souls and so few Basic-Lands? First of all, when you revise all your games vs RUG you didnt exactly die because they wasted your Savannah, you died because you couldnt resolve your Knight early enough. That's why I play 2 Caverns, maybe Ill be up them to 3. Same comes for Miracle - the MU is just so plain bad - but Cavern helps alot. You simply play 1-3 creatures, force him to waste a Terminus, and keep casting more creatures then, uncounterable with Cavern.
My question: Should I cut another Canopy for a third Cavern?
Greetings
Cut the Maze of Ith for a Dryad Arbor. Usually 2 Caverns are enough, depends on your metagame I think.
I'd cut a Savannah or a Canopy for the Dryad Arbor. With 6 fetches, you can easily find a Savannah.
I count 21 actual lands. You should just cut a spell to add a Dryad Arbor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
The manabase usually works out to:
4x Savannah
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wasteland
2x-3x Forest
1x-2x Cavern of Souls
1x-2x Misty Rainforest (or other green fetch)
1x-2x Horizon Canopy
1x Plains
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
1x Dryad Arbor
I'm running that with 3x Forest, 2x Cavern, and 1x Horizon.
I'm running that with 2 Forest, 1 Caverns, 2 Horizon Canopy, 1 Gaea's Cradle (which is a sub for Forest)Quote:
Originally Posted by mini1337s
You don't even need 4 Savannah in my experience, though I do run 4 because it is of course a little better because of turn 1 access to both mom & hierarch. But I'm almost always operating on 2-3 basics and a specialty land or two.
I am so sorry guys. Obviously I was playing a Dryad Arbor..but had it labelled as "creature" in my decklists :(
I did cut a Canopy for a 3rd Cavern and did some testing today vs RUG and Miracle.
Well.... all I can say is that I dont think that I'd ever go below 2 Caverns. 3 were fine most of the time and made Miracle an do-able match and RUG def. favorable!
Greetings
I tried 2 Forest, 2 Caverns, 1 Canopy, and a Cradle for awhile, but the cradle kept putting me in awkward positions. Cradle was really only good when I was already ahead, wheras the additional Forest was always useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
I've found I prefer having a chance at Cavern early on as opposed to searching it up with a KoTR, but I supposed it's all just personal preference.
I finally tried your list yesterday during local regular legacy. While I was still sceptical about some cards at the stage of sleeving the deck, it felt decent during all the event.Quote:
Originally Posted by M@verick
As a result I went 4-0 and the pairings were:
2-0 against Nic Fit
2-0 against U/R Jace-Splinter twin combo-control
2-1 against Reanimator
2-0 against Solidarity
However I could not resist making some changes in the list according to the local scene and my preferences. I played with the following list:
Lands (I'm still suspicious about Cavern of Souls and have not purchased it yet. I added Bojuka as playing with 4 KotR and Wayfarers I'd like to have more land tricks)
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
3 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Weathered Wayfarer - I'm new to playing with this guy so decided to try 2 of them as a first step and then see if the 3rd one is needed
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Birds of Paradise - now I fully confirm that birds are better than Hierarchs here
2 Phyrexian Revoker - only 2, because needed space for Thalias
2 Thalia, Guardan of Thraben - half of our meta is really afraid of her (burn, heavy control and combo), so decided to move it back into the deck
1 Scryb Ranger - we don't have much of delvers and merfolks lately
1 Eternal Witness - I just don't like this creature and decided to play only 1. Too situational for me while ooze is still popular
1 Gaddock Teeg - this old man is fearsome to a decent number of decks. Didn't have enough courage to play without it
Spells
1 Eladamri's Call - it seemed that I needed smth like this as I diluted some consistency of the deck and needed those singletons work. It appeared to be fantastic with Aether Vial and added the versatility that I wanted to have
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull - too much burn lately so I had to play this one
2 Sylvan Library
Sideboard
1 Gaddock Teeg (should be 2 but I didn't think I'd play 3 ever, as a result I don't own a third one...:frown:)
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Choke
2 Surgical Extraction +1 GY hate card in MD -1 in SB. Also I don't think I would side in more than 2 surgicals against miracles
1 Faerie Macabre can be found with El.Call
2 Krosan Grip
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence - it seems that the deck can't offer elves anything
but revokers. Also I was not comfortable with mirror match.
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Dismember - same as Linvala
1 Thorn of Amethyst - I wanted smth which would be good against burn, combo and miracles. Decided to try this. Sometimes I wish Thalia was not legendary...
So playing with vials was beyond the imagination. Though sometimes I wished for a third Sylvan Library to filter them out in the middle game :wink:
Wayfarer appeared ok, but this guy seems to be very skill-intensive. I'm not sure I'm ready to play 3 of them. Also any tips on when to side out them would be appreciated.
Overall I'm happy I've finally tried the list and now this is my deckchoice for a while, that's for sure :smile:
Please tell me if some of my decisions seem weird or not optimal.
@door- should you wish to run three basics in M@verick's shell, it's not even close how much better the second Plains would be than a second Forest; it is a white-based shell, after all, as opposed to the heavily green-based GSZ Maverick lists. The only times I even want Forest are against Wasteland recursion decks or when chaining with (pumping) Knight, as the final green source in the chain. Honestly though, two basics is more than enough; the foundational Plains is really the only basic you truly need. Plains+Savannah as the turn two quintessential GW is going to be better a very large percent of the time over Plains+Forest, regardless if they have Wasteland or not. I'd definitely just jam in that fourth Savannah before a third basic.
Very common occurrence to look out for with Wayfarer on the play is in tandem with Birds and a sacrifice-able land; t1 cast one of the two one-drops, turn two the other (with, say, a Savannah and a Windswept Heath in play at that point, although Canopy also works for certain purposes in certain situations), turn three sac the Heath, activate Wayfarer, grab, say, Cavern to cast your uncounterable Knight/Mystic, or grab Wasteland to get their one untapped blue source and cast an un-Spell Pierce-able Sylvan Library. Obviously, you can naturally activate Wayfarer on the draw turn two, absent of Birds, with Heath+stable turn one white source (Plains if you can, although Savannah is going to be better in a lot of situations even if it means they can Waste you).
Eladamri's Call seems decent enough in the Vial shell (seems decisively better than GSZ), hope it turns out well in testing.
Glad you agree on Birds>Hierarch in this shell, as well as Library as a two-of.
If your meta is full of combo and burn, thalia is a nice choice. I just side in agasint this kind of decks.
As kevintrudeau said, fourth savannah is much better than the second forest, we dont need it.
I havent tested eldamri´s call, perhaps it is a good substitute for the second eternal or scryb ranger, but remember we dont play GSZ, so we cant look for these cards. The same for gaddock, 1-of is not enough, so i play many of them on sb in the match ups that I need.
the most important thing. Play sowrd of X/X over batterskull. I like F/I. Is kinda better.
On burn or UR MUs the sword is also very good, and much better in all other pairings.
Try also the third revoker. Is incredible agasint all decks, but RUG
I thought I'd shift gears a bit and talk about playing the deck, rather than what cards should fill out a particular list. One thing, in particular that I was thinking about is whether to play Noble Hierarch or Mother of Runes on turn one if you have both cards in hand with a Savannah. On the play, against an unknown deck, I always drop Hierarch first because I feel that early mana acceleration is more valuable than protection. However, with more information there are instances in which I prefer to drop a turn one Mother, even with Hierarch in hand. One example, is when I have a Thalia or other "hate bear" in hand that will really punish an opposing deck (such as Storm Combo). Another example, is if a deck is playing a card like Fire/Ice or Forked Bolt. It's better to play Mother first to draw out the removal spell as a 1 for 1, instead of playing Hierarch followed by Mother and getting two for oned. If I'm on the draw and know the opponent is playing Daze. I'll cast the spell that I least mind seeing countered on my turn one. Are there any other tips that people can add for playing properly on turn one? What decks do you favor casting a turn one Mother over a Hierarch when you have that choice?
Different situations require the better choice; in general depends by starting 7 if i need to accel on turn 2 for huge threat (cast Hierarch) or opt to defensive creature play (cast mother). Mother and Hierarch may be used to bait counter if you have other bullet to cast later and left behind your opponent!Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
I see Mother turn one better vs deck like:
Burn
Goblins
Mirror
Zoo
Hope i wrote in good English ;)
Yesterday played a tournament with some judge foils in prizes.Quote:
Originally Posted by M@verick
The list stayed the same, though I understand all the drawbacks of having singletones. Except that I turned 2nd forest into 2nd plains (I own only 3 savannas).
Sb:
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Choke
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Krosan Grip
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Dismember
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Enlightened Tutor
I was extremely unlucky with my pairings but fought my way into t8:
round 1: 1-1-1 against Junk
round 2: 1-1-1 against elves
round 3: 2-0 against UR painter
round 4: 2-0 against Solidarity
round 5: id after carefuly counting my chances
Playing against elves was like running from hell. In g1 I kept these 5: Gaea's Cradle, Wasteland, Vial, Mystic, Wayfarer. Opp fizzles in his turn 2. My next turn wayfarer with jitte crushes him and I win g1 with this weird hand. After sb it was 50/50 and I would win g3 unless time ended.
In top8 I was unfortunately paired against my friend and teammate, who was also playing Vial Maverick founded on M@verick's list from this topic. The day before we were preparing together. He was playing a slightly different list and a completely unusual sideboard. As a result he played 3-1-1 in swiss.
His list compared to mine:
4 birds
3 revokers
3 thalias
2 scrybs
2 witness
3 kotrs
1 rishadan port
- e-call
- 2 sylvans
- gaddock
- 1 fetch
His sb was full of surprises including 2 crop rotations, the tabernacle and some other stuff...
I decided to concede as he had more chances against dredge and nic fit which also featured in t8. As a result he split the finals.
A nice trick I found playing with wayfarers when you have equal number of lands with your opponent: Take mana into pool, activate scryb targeting wayfarer, activate wayfarer with the mana, search land, resolve scryb's ability untapping wayfarer.
@@ regarding strategies: I may say an obvious thing, but besides your opponent's deck it always depends on what else you have in hand - see your local game plan. Whether you need to lure stp/counterspell on your mother to protect your next turn KoTR, or play non basics to give them to opponent's wastelands because you are flooded and hope to slow down his developing in such a way, or smth else..
I once had such situation against bant: my starting hand (zenith build): mother of runes, stp, hierarch, wasteland, gw fetch. My opponent opens with tropic -> hierarch. How would you play? I played fetch into plains, stp his hierarch. My decision was that the next turn I play wasteland, mother, waste his dual land, and hope that I have enough time to find a green source before he can stabilize. So my local game plan was to screw him and obtain mother of runes which would protect my future hierarch, thus keeping him from screwing me. I believe that all the mirror and pseudo-mirror games depend mostly on winning the resource race (like it always was in good old Warcraft2). From the other side a single daze would ruin all my plans...
What do you guys usually board vs Miracles? Went to a 65-ish player tournament yesterday and I wasn't able to reach the T8 because of two blowouts against UWx Miracles.
My current SB is as follows:
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg (1 in MD)
1 Thrun, the Last Troll (1 in MD)
1 Path to Exile
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Crop Rotation
1 Life from the Loam
1 Harmonic Sliver
Thinking of putting 2 Krosan Grip in. Should I bring back Choke?
They anticipate Enchantments/Artifact hate. Try Tsunami or Armageddon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkr
Choke is great against those blue control decks, especially ones that have to durdle around with Top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkr
Choke is nice, but not the real answer. Let me tell you how to beat Miracle ( I play both decks, Maverick and Miracle )
Firstly you have to play 2 Cavern of Souls as a minimum. 3 might be the better choice in an UW Miracle-infected Meta. Obviously you name Human. Secondly you have to play Planeswalker. Not out of the Sideboard, mainboard them. My current list plays 1 Garruk Relentless and 1 Elspeth, Knight - Errant mainboard, those are boss against Miracle.
Out of the Sideboard Pithing Needle sounds like the best choice, obviously Chokes come in, but you will rarely win a game with them ( I hardly lost to Choke with my UWr version of Miracle ). You can board Armageddon effects and stuff, they are very strong if they resolve, but I do not have space in my sideboard for them.
Greetings
This. Planeswalkers seem quite good too, but then you should have some plan for entreat (engineered explosives?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Maverick does not have a decent plan against Angels. It does not need to have one. Angels is only good if the Miracle-player can set it up while being safe. When we force him to spend all his ressources on answering our Planeswalkers or playing around our Caverns Angels shouldnt be a real threat any more. And if they have the lucky Angel in Turn15 we die. That's fine. Bad MU is bad, but it gets alot better with Planeswalkers/Cavern Mainboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by dsck
Greetings
Really, our main plan against UW Miracles should be:
1) Resolve Gaddock Teeg
2) Protect him
3) ???
4) Profit
Correct. But this plan is...not very realistic. Miracle is aware of this fact and will try to get rid of Teeg or make sure he doesn't even enter the battlefield. If this stays your only way of victory vs Miracle - good luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper3k
Greetings
"One of my main concerns going into this tournament was making the deck better against Stoneblade and U/W Control. Unfortunately, I wasn't sure how to go about doing that. Fortunately, I was able to briefly talk to two of the best pilots around to get their take on the matchups. Reid Duke said that the cards that were hardest to play against out of Maverick for Control were Gaddock Teeg and Armageddon. Ben Friedman echoed those cards for Stoneblade, although with less emphasis on Teeg. With their feedback, I was happy to slot one Teeg for the main and two Armageddons for the board."
As written by Orrin Beasley in his SCG DC tournament report. He writes about how to improve the UW control/Stoneblade matchup.
This can't be right. Your name isn't listed anywhere. Don't they know you're the grandfather of Maverick?Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Gaddock Teeg + Sylvan Safekeeper.
Green Sun for Gaddock Teeg is good against UW miracles with Counterbalance in play
Is it possible to play a deck like this? I know a few changes had to be done.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
3 Vengevine
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Savannah
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Plains
2 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
If you're going that heavily on the Fauna Shaman plan, I'd probably just cut the SFM package for the 4th GSZ, Vengevine, a Basking Rootwalla, and a Scryb / Quirion Ranger.
Cool! You took out the best card, added useless Goyfs and make it possible to blow you out with Surgical. Its playable, but its terrible.
This is an old Version.
Changes:
-4 Tarmogoyf
-1 Sword of Firee and Ice
-3 Horizon Canopy
+2 Knight of the Reliquary
+1 Scryb Ranger
+1 Green Sun's Zenith
+1 Basking Rootwalla
+1 Lightning Greaves ?
maybe 2 Sylvan library and the fourth Venevine?
@ Koby: What is the best card?
My money's on Thalia. She's insaneQuote:
Originally Posted by Deckerator
I domt know why but im not a real fan of thalia. It is often that i hope more than she really does. I play only in a small tournament with ~40 players.
A lot of them playing G/W. There is really less Combo. In my opinion Thalia is only good in Combo. In other match-ups she is...mhm let's say...ok but nothing more. The opponent doesnt really often cares about this 1 mana he has to pay more. I think i can add more useful cards than Thalia to this deck. Cards like Stoneforge Mystic, Thrun, Eternal Witness. Or play with the Punishing/Grove combo.
I never had the feeling that Thalia feels really good for me.
She is very good in matchups other than combo though. She really hurts RUG in thresh's capacity to cantrip to answers or tap out for a threat with either daze/force for protection. She slows down swords+snapcaster+swords chains, and is in general a kink in the works for a lot of control cards (miracles not withstanding). Dredge similarly can't muscle through her, in both due to the taxing effect and the first strike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckerator
She is just incredibly solid and disruptive to your opponents while having little impact on yourself. I think you'll regret it in the long run should you ever move out of this 40 player scene you describe.