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I would take out all Cursecatchers vs Zoo. On the play I would keep some number of Standstill in. But it will always be a bad matchup.
Against ANT: If nothing else, Relic cycles vs ANT. At best it keeps them off threshold for Cabal Ritual and it stops most igg plans (if they run igg). And Kira is worse then Sovereign vs ANT, no?
What is worth more in the Zoo matchup (on the draw) - Cursecatcher or Daze?
I was leaning towards Cursecatcher because at least you can block 4 dmg from an Exalted Nacatl or Steppe Lynx. Daze kinda screws your board development.
As far as 2 Dreadnoughts, It's been working out pretty well. I like the number at 2. 3 would be nice but I really like the rest of my list. 11 counters plus 4 stifles mainboard are just awful for people.
If the zoo player makes a t1 Lynx he will wait to see whether you block before he cracks his fetchland. Nonetheless, chumping right away is not a good strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidFiend
Guess I need alot of playtesting agains Zoo. Thanks for helping. Probably a metagame call but I feel more comfortable with this deck than Dream Halls even tough the latter one has a much better matchup against Zoo.
I have one more question (sorry for spamming but it is better to ask here than to make mistakes at a big tournament). If you are on the play (or draw) and don't know what the opponent is playing how do you choose between your 1cc?
I would have guessed:
On the play: a) Vial, b) keep mana open for Stifle, c) Cursecatcher.
Do you agree or would you have done different?
On the draw against uncracked fetch = Stifle
On the draw against fetch, dual, Ape, Cat or something: Vial? Stifle? Curse?
I think the decisions depend heavily on the rest of your hand and the situation. Also, dont forget the other "1 drop" wasteland waste.
True. On the draw I guess I never would have played wasteland if he already had a threat in play (Wild Nacatl, Ape etc). But if he played non-blue dual or fetched for a non-blue dual and passed the turn I would always play waste. On the play I don't see a reason to play waste - go if I have either vial, curse, stifle or daze in hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1rakete
Some general feedback: I like your maindeck list a lot actually, but the sideboard seems pretty random.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daredevil
About the SB: first off I wouldn't run llawan or cold-eyed selkie. If you really expect to see that much of the mirror match and want something in the sideboard for it, I think there are better options. Wake Thrasher is ridonkulous in the mirror, for one thing. Threads of Disloyalty is also pretty damn good. And as much as I don't like to recommend folks to run Jitte in this deck, if you think about it Jitte is much more versatile than Llawan against other matchups(Goblins, for example), while usually still being as much of a game winner in the mirror. But unless the meta you foresee is jusb plagued by Merfolk and Faerie Stompy, Llawan seems pretty sub-par jus because of how limited her use is.
Divert is not worth the space, imho. Even though I own a set I bought just for tgis deck, I haven't found myself using them that much in testing, and other folks generally say the same thing.
Also, I'm not quite sure that two Hydroblast effects in the SB is enough. I'd go up to at least three, possibly four.
It seems like you want to play a pretty diversified sideboard, and I approve of that. But here's my take on the problem: This deck obviously doesn't have enough drawing power to support a "silver bullet sideboard" with a bunch of one and two of's. So the common impulse is to sort of 'split up' sets of three's or four-of's in the sb. For example you've kind of split up 4 hydroblast into 2 divert, 1 beb 1 hydro. But Divert is basically a card that's best in the early game, and you're still only pqcking 2 copies, ie yr unlikely to draw into it early. Meanwhile, there are times when yr going to really wqnt those extra 2 'virtual hydroblasts.'. For example, Goblins is an attrocious matchup that Divert does nothing against.
What I'm trying to get at here is that Merfolk wants a sideboard that is fairly redundant, so you can be more sure to draw into yr hate cards over the course of an average game. We draw extra cards with Standstill (when it works), and with Adept. That's not a whole lot, and also Standstill is good but it's not a terribly reliable draw engine (which I think is something that doesn't get discussed enough, but I digress.). Basically, when you build the sideboard for Merf, you have to be sure that the splits you make give you enough diversity, against a variety of strategies, while maintaining fairly heavy amounts of applicable hate cards for yr worst matchups (ie Zoo, Gobs, Rock, whatever you fear and expect to see.)
Anyhow, I hope these ramblings have helped out. ;)
EDIT: sorry for all the typo's, I'm writing this ona fucking ipod keyboard, qnd I really don't have time to correct them all. Lol
I wanted to echo DDK's sentiments in that you can't go too toolboxy because you'll be hard pressed to draw mull/draw into your SB.
@ Goblins: I've tested BEB & Jitte but they can still overwhelm you plus they pack REB. Every deck has bad matchups and this is one I'm inclined to think is more effort than its worth to improve. Finally, no-one runs it in my Meta anyways. Thus I dropped BEB altogether. If my Meta was infested with Goblins, I'd probably run another deck.
There are a number of players building Merfolk decks however, so I'm going to take Llawan out for dinner and see if she gives it up. While Wake Thrasher is great in this matchup I agree, but when else can you side it in? At least Llawan can help vs. Bant/Faeries/bounce a Progenitus.
Lets discuss this then. Is there a better draw engine that a mono blue list has access to? My initial thoughts are Accumulate Knowledge or AK with Intuition. I don't think most lists have room for Intuition so we would be looking strictly at AK. How bad is it? I'm not saying we would cut Standstill, but run AK in addition to it. Thoughts?Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght
As I was reading this I was wondering if you were trying to be funny on purpose. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght
I played ANT but I switched to the folk after the rise of combo. Merfolk is a living hell for the ANT player unless they resolve a first turn Xantid Swarm. The merfolk have no answer to a resolved Swarm unless they luck an echoing truth second turn.
Alright, guess the new merfolk has been spoiled, although unconfirmed at this point.
Seijiri merfolk? 1U
Creature - Soldier merfolk
As long as you control a plains, ~ gain firststrike and lifelink
2/1
36/145
Source
Worth trying to squeeze in for white splash? What to take out? Seems more like a white weenie card than merfolk. Reminds me of knights of the meadowgrain.
I played Merfolk but I switched to ANT after the rise of the first.Quote:
Originally Posted by CUB3X
I can say that you're really overrating Merfolk against combo, because when I face Merfolk with ANT I'm always happy. Only 4 Force of Will and 7-8 Dazes won't do the job, especially because Merfolk does not flter its draws and often opens beatdown hands with light or non existing disruption. If a good Combo player knows what he has to do and to avoid against Merfolk, I'm sure he can pretty much beat the fishes.
Not sure about this one. Sure, first strike and lifelink aren't half bad, especially when combined. Not to mention that its body is pretty good too.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckme10
But it just feels like this thing goes against what Merfolk was supposed to do in the first place: Be aggro-control, with control coming first. Sure, the white splash makes some matchups better, but also makes some match-ups worse and your manabase becomes that much more vurnerable.
That said, I'm going to test this guy for one reason: it's a nightmare for pretty much any aggro/mirror matchup, given you have at least one lord out.
Also, I'd take out the Sovereigns if I'm going to include this guy.
If you have Vial it's much better tempo to play it before you waste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daredevil
DukeDemonKn1ght: Thanks alot for big post, helped me alot, good luck with your ipod. I could go -2 Divert, +1 Submerge, +1 BEB that makes:
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Submerge
3 BEB / Hydroblast
3 Spell Pierce
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress (+ faeries, progenitus, bant)
1 Cold Eyed-Selkie
If my opponent plays Show and Tell and we put into play a Prog and Llawan Prog will bounce right?
I have also tested a bit Mind Harness on MWS but it's so limited because stealing nacatl, kird ape is only getting me a 1/1. Goyf's are nice to steal tough. And Pridemages if they are tapped out.
---
On the 2/1 first strike, lifelink for 1U if you have Tundra in play I like it. I won't include it in my build (monoblue ofcourse) but I guess it would be nice in a deck that allready runs white for swords and has room for it. With a lord in play this takes care for everything zoo have except from Goyf. Not bad :)
Looking a lot better. Please tell me how Llawan tests out for you; it's quite possible that I'm under-rating her. I'd still encourage you to drop Selkie for something else (maybe just a fourth copy of one of your three's-- I vote for Spell Pierce since it's probably the most versatile)... But this might just be my personal vendetta against Selkie. If you go back about a year or so in this thread you'll find me rabidly telling people that Selkie sucks and is ugly and whatnot, lol. But this was back when folks were considering her for the maindeck, and it might just be a knee-jerk reaction I have left over from then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daredevil
Anyways, speaking of mono-blue sideboards: Can someone explain to me why no one (and I mean no one) seems to run Pithing Needle anymore??
here is a better '?': can you name 3 major matchups that it helps where other more accepted cards don't?
I also dont get the point in playing needle.
REB > Lavamancer
Jitte > Jitte
Spell Pierce, Stifle > Explosives, Keg, Shackles
...
Probably the only thing:
needle > top
Well, there's also the fact that it can help you mana screw your opponent HARD if they're running a non-diversified quantity of fetch lands in their mana base (ie 4x, 4x, etc. rather than a bunch of 1x, 2x, etc.). In that case, it basically acts like extra copies of Stifle, which is pretty brutal. And Needle takes care of Mishra's Factory, Deed, Top, EE, etc. etc. etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1rakete
Also, saying "Jitte > Jitte" doesn't really take into account the fact that many people consider Jitte bad in this deck and prefer not to run it. Myself included.
Basically, my argument is that what Needle lacks in "being the best answer to one specific thing", it makes up for in "being a good answer to about 33% of the stuff that's out there." Activated abilities are a pretty huge chunk of the game mechanics, and if you know what to name with Needle, testing has shown me that it can be good like whoa.
I mean, let's take the list that you submitted: Lavamancer, Jitte, EE, Keg, Shackles, etc. Can you name another card that can singlehandedly answer all of these things? For one colorless mana? I don't know, it still seems pretty decent to me...
Of course not, PN's strength is its flexibility. Its weakness is the fact that it's reactive, and not generally a complete answer (like leaving your opponent with a 1/1 Lavamancer or sometimes even letting him capture a creature with Shackles).Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght
The first time you play an opponent who is also playing Vial (such as the mirror), you will curse the day you put Needles in your sb. Bounce, while leaving much to be desired imo, has been better than a Needle for me almost all the time.
I am suprised no one is discussing the UW Lifelink/First Strike Merfolk.
Not good enough to replace CMC2 cantrip Merfolk in UW?
Here is another one. Still looks subpar, but interesting....
Thada Adel, Acquisitor 1UU
Legendary Creature - Merfolk Rogue (rare)
Islandwalk
Whenever Thada Adel, Acquisitor deals combat damage to a player, search that player's library for an artifact card and exile it. Then that player shuffles his or her library. Until end of turn, you may play that card.
2/2
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=4863843
But those are 3 or 4 different cards while Needle is a one-stop answer to all of those.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1rakete
Nobody thinks Thada Adel could have potential in certain matchups? I'm thinking perhaps the mirror match if your opponent is playing jittes. However, unlike llawan, thada adel could have applications in other matchups as well, and is naturally a merfolk. I think it might be a really interesting sideboard card.
When I tested needle in the deck I was always a little disappointed. I agree with Finn that bounce is the best.
I would be happier if were a Merf that gave another Merf flying or a Merf that would give another Merf shroud. I mean, who cares abt artifacts anyway? This card aint improving the aggro match-up by any means.Quote:
Originally Posted by arebennian
I've a question for you. I've read the last pages of the topic and see no discussion about the white splash. I know it was talked about some times ago.
Is the splash worth it for Absolute law and swords and probally the new merfolK ? HAs anyone recently try it, if so, how was it ?
The thing is: the new Merfolk is really bad. Lifelink only matters at all against Storm, Zoo Goblins, and I guess burn matchup. But Zoo doesn't care at all about a 2/1 if they have a lot of creatures (lifelink or not), and if they are trying to get there with burn, at most this draws a burn out. It's not great against Storm, and it's going to be unequivocally the worst Merfolk in the deck in every single other matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor
I had my fingers crossed we'd see a good UW merfolk that would solidify the splash, but this is not it.
If the new 1U 2/1 lifelink first strike merfolk is true I could see this as a potent deck for it:Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept
4 New Merfolk 1U bla bla...
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Standstill
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Mutavault
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
Really helps out against zoo and stuff, but I have not seen any confirmation of this card yet. Perhaps it will appear on the spoiler soon. :)
About Thada: In this format what is worth to steal? I can only think of jitte.
The new merfs => 1U 2/1 gets lifelink and 1st strike is very weak as compared to other 1 drops like kird ape nor the new white 2/3 lion. Im still hoping they would make a UW merf thats worth it, maybe something along the lines of => UW 3/2 merfs you control gets 1st strike or UW 2/2 if you control a plains merfolks you control gets protection from white, if island blue and so on.
Yeah perhaps. I just thought it would help the Zoo/aggro matchup. This + Lord is able to deal with every creature except goyf. Along with swords it's nice. It's lifelink ability is also very nice getting an extra turn (or two) to deal those extra damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by _erbs_
Extra special for sideboard tech:
Quote:
Ta Mere plays Natural Order from Hand
<Ta Mere> Ok?
<Daredevil> Ok
Ta Mere puts Dryad Arbor to Graveyard from Play
Ta Mere puts Natural Order to Graveyard from Play
Ta Mere is looking its sa Bibliothèque...
Ta Mere puts Progenitus into play from Library
Ta Mere shuffles library
Ta Mere stops looking its sa Bibliothèque...
<Ta Mere> End my turn
It is now turn 16 (Daredevil)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
Daredevil untaps his/her permanents
It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
Daredevil draws a card
It is now the Precombat Main Phase
Daredevil taps Island
Daredevil taps Island
Daredevil taps Island
Daredevil taps Island
Daredevil plays Llawan, Cephalid Empress from Hand
<Daredevil> Ok?
Ta Mere taps Tropical Island
Ta Mere plays Brainstorm from Hand
<Ta Mere> Ok?
<Daredevil> Thinking
<Daredevil> Ok
Ta Mere draws a card
Ta Mere draws a card
Ta Mere draws a card
Ta Mere puts Brainstorm to Graveyard from Play
<Ta Mere> Thinking
<Ta Mere> ^GG
<Daredevil> gg
<Ta Mere> TOP DECKING
Stealing a dreadnought with stifle in hand is good I hear :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daredevil
Also stealing tops is not a bad strategy, even if you won't use them urself, the factor is that you deny the opponent to use them.
Same goes for stealing trinisphere, LED, chalice...you probably won't want it, but you having it means they don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by EaD
And stealing a grindstone to mill a Painter's Stone opponent would be EPIC.
I don't see this card being any good in an aggro deck such as Merfolk.
However, it's fun to see that you can steal top, order your top deck. Tap top to draw then seach again your opponent's library for top and so on. Top in your opponent's deck change it into a freaking good old Shadowmage Infiltrator. And as Wrath_Of_Houlding said in his previous post, stealing grindstone makes painter's player's life hard. Very hard. Notice that it's also a good protection against jitte, if you get the time to attack with it. Indeed rare are the decks playing only 1 jitte, so that if you opponent played 1 jitte, you can probably tutor for another one and therefore legendary rule his copy.
Point is, if you can find space for Thada, you can find space for C-E Selkie, which is the better choice of the two imo.
I agree with this one...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesarius
The Kird Merfolk looks nice though for the U/W lists out there.
1U for 2/1 First Strike and Lifelink is pretty sick
Really, you think so? What would you cut and which matchups, precisely, would a 2/1 first strike lifelink creature help against?Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Kirdfolk:
Well if you have a plains, he eats Goblins, and unpumped Nacatls, Kirds, White Kirds. Only unpumped ones? Well yeah, but we have Wasteland and I play 2 Tidal Warrior, some play Stifle, all of which deny Kird style pumps. If you have any of your lords, then he eats pumped ones anyways. It's also nice to have a creature other than your lords/sygg that they will have to think about removing. But is there room for another 2 drop? LoA and Silvergill definitely won't be cut for this guy, so it would have to be a 3 drop.
Thada:
I WANT to like this card, which makes me suspicious of it. It sounds really good in certain matchups, and dead in others. It's not a fast card, and is slower at dealing damage than Sovereign, Thrasher, Vendillion Clique and Reejeray. When they play artifacts and it hits, it ranges from awesome to decent. Jitte would be the nuts, Top is good if you're playing fetches and not bad if you're not, Shackles can be good if you ever seen one in their deck. Even if you can't utilize the ones in their deck, you deny them a chance to draw it, which is good when you're out of counters. BUT when they don't play artifacts, then you just played a legendary gray ogre that walks through Islands, and that's just terrible.
Hi Dudes.
I Know that's nothing to do with the new ww cards, but has anyone already been testing cotv in the zoo and combo MU? seems good to cut the zoo player almost 70% of their ressources, and just keep our fow for qasali. I'm aware that it would require a cut in cursecatcher and maybe aether vial in pre-side games, but seems like it could be worth it.
Any testers'opinions in a full zoo metagame?