[DTB] Sneak Attack

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Originally Posted by pavlaugh

I ran two tops in the "no petals" list on the last page. It was great against fair decks and still decent against combo. Overall I liked it and will keep it in the deck for now. I was obviously playing a much slower "sculpt the perfect hand" version of this deck, though. I think if you're going for speed, preordain is better because results are immediate and it pitches to fow.

I'll admit one of the reasons I ran top is because I was watching an SCG feature match streaming RUG vs Sneak, and in game 2 RUG forced a turn 1 top, only to have no hard counter for show and tell. What struck me is that some players overvalue top. I found this to be true when my opponents named top with pithing needle, kept abrupt decay in game 2, or spell pierced it. I was usually happy to see my opponent waste a card (counter) or turn (abrupt decay instead of discard spell).

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Lol that was me. Top is super sweet. I dont like two however, since they are worse than Preordain in multiples when you see both of them together. I split my Preordain slots with Tops however.

Haha, nice! I agree drawing two tops usually sucks, but I didn't notice it happening. If you resolve one you're not likely to draw the other. PV played two tops in Denver but went down to 8 counters to do so. Not sure I like cutting counters...

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Originally Posted by georgjorge

Thanks for the replies regarding Burning Wish. After some more testing, I'm really on the fence about Wish vs Attack. There are obviously situations where Attack is needed, but I've also had enough hands with three or four non-Sol lands and Wish where Sneak Attack either wouldn't have been castable or would have been too slow, while second turn Wish into third turn Show was fast enough. Sneak Attack is essentially a three-card combo of Attack + creature + Sol land/Petal, it's usually too slow for me without the third part. Thus being able to reduce the number of slots for Sol lands for more cantrips and protection while still being fast enough is great. And I quite like Raze in the wishboard against Karakas. More testing...

You're right about Daze + Wish of course, but I'm really not impressed with either Pierce or Daze. Pierce is decent against discard but not so hot in counterwars where you often don't have the extra mana against their Pierces and Dazes.

On Leyline: I find it to be great. I don't get why people think you have to mulligan to it anymore than to any other sideboard card? Against either storm combo or discard - where Leyline is used - any countermeasure you need will have to be online within the first two turns or so to be effective, so you really don't get that many draw steps anyway to draw into it (save for countermeasures that recover discarded cards like Recall).

I'm not so sure about Boseiju, which either gets Wastelanded a lot or comes so late that the life loss is a liability, but I haven't been able to come up with anything better for counterwars yet. Going to try out Defense Grid.

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Overmaster is one of the best, if not the best, cards for fighting the counter war because the opponent has to trade his Daze and Spell Pierces for it and you can simply pay their tax and draw a card for the 2 for 1.

Defense Grid is decent for being a pre-emptive disruption piece that you can cast t1 for virtual card advantage against an opponent holding multiple counters not named force of will.

As an aside, is there a reason no one plays with Gitaxian Probe when you can just blow your opponent's out of the game with SoL Land, Petal Show&Tell after seeing their hand?

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

Overmaster is one of the best, if not the best, cards for fighting the counter war because the opponent has to trade his Daze and Spell Pierces for it and you can simply pay their tax and draw a card for the 2 for 1.

Defense Grid is decent for being a pre-emptive disruption piece that you can cast t1 for virtual card advantage against an opponent holding multiple counters not named force of will.

As an aside, is there a reason no one plays with Gitaxian Probe when you can just blow your opponent's out of the game with SoL Land, Petal Show&Tell after seeing their hand?

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I have also wondered about probe but what would you cut to play it?

Gitaxian Probe is undesirable because you want those 2 extra life as protection against bolt when you're drawing up to 14 cards with Griselbrand

I figured I would post up my deck list for a big, upcoming event that should be at least 75 to 100 people.

4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
4 Emrakul
4 Griselbrand

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
2 Intuition

4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
4 Lotus Petal

2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

Sideboard (As of now)
3 Defense Grid
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Wipe Away
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroclasm
1 Karakas

I'm a little unsure about Daze. I used to play daze and then I stopped but I missed have the extra free counters. I also used to use 2x flusterstorm instead of spell pierce but I'm concerned about Jace and Lilana and I would rather have counters that can hit things that are not just instants and sorceries.

Does my sideboard seem to cover most of the bases for a big event where I will likely see a little bit of everything?

Do I need more graveyard hate?

I don't think I'm running anything too out the ordinary but It nice to have extra sets of eyes take a look at things.

Any advice, even your very subjective opinions are helpful.

Thanks.

Leyline of Sanctity is very good right now. I play a very similar maindeck, but i would play at least 3 Preordain and cut back the weaker countermagic (Daze).

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Originally Posted by Unsummon

Gitaxian Probe is undesirable because you want those 2 extra life as protection against bolt when you're drawing up to 14 cards with Griselbrand

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Arguing that Gitaxian Probe is bad in win more scenarios is pointless, 2 life doesn't make a big difference for Sneak Attack -> Griselbrand after you've attacked and gained 7 life to draw X - you can afford to be patient with a 14 point life swing in your favor and 7 new cards in the worse case scenario.

I tested 2x gitaxian probe before opting for top. It's great against RUG and probably other tempo or esper control. Against RUG for example, paying 2 life to see if you can go off a turn or two eearlier will frequently net you life. Against an aggressive deck playing spell piece and daze, we use our life as a resoure to get to adequate mana to play around the counters if necessary. That usually means we won't be drawing off griselbrand anyway (ime).

Of course, I usually hard casted it anyway... If you cut anything for probe, it's prob going to be a cantrip.

And another SCG Open is won by Sneak and Show :cool:

This is my list that I won SCG Edison with:


Sneak and Show
Zack Mullin
1st Place at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 2/10/2013
Legacy


Creatures (8)

4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
Lands (20)

3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
Spells (32)

4 Lotus Petal
4 Sneak Attack
4 Brainstorm
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Intuition
2 Misdirection
3 Spell Pierce
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
Sideboard

4 Defense Grid
4 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Stifle
2 Karakas

Stifles in the SB and misdirections main were MVPs

Could you explain the Stifle? When do you side them in and what do you remove?

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Originally Posted by useL

Could you explain the Stifle? When do you side them in and what do you remove?

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I am also curious about the choice for Stifle. Is it used to counter D-Sphere/O-ring? Wasteland? Karakas / Maze of Ith?

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Originally Posted by kaosjr

This is my list that I won SCG Edison with:


Sneak and Show
Zack Mullin
1st Place at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 2/10/2013
Legacy


Creatures (8)

4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
Lands (20)

3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
Spells (32)

4 Lotus Petal
4 Sneak Attack
4 Brainstorm
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Intuition
2 Misdirection
3 Spell Pierce
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
Sideboard

4 Defense Grid
4 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Stifle
2 Karakas

Stifles in the SB and misdirections main were MVPs

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Congrats on the Finish!

Pardon my ignorance with this deck. My question is what are the stifles in the sb for(Nath'd)? How were the Defense Grid? what matchups did you bring this in against? Also did you feel like you needed something like Top or Leyline of Sanctity against discard?

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Originally Posted by Koby

I am also curious about the choice for Stifle. Is it used to counter D-Sphere/O-ring? Wasteland? Karakas / Maze of Ith?

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Maybe just the sacrifice at end of turn trigger from sneak attack?

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Originally Posted by Que

Congrats on the Finish!

Pardon my ignorance with this deck. My question is what are the stifles in the sb for(Nath'd)? How were the Defense Grid? what matchups did you bring this in against? Also did you feel like you needed something like Top or Leyline of Sanctity against discard?

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I can answer for Defense Grid - these are for the Tempo decks (RUG, BUG, pretty much any Delver deck). It provides the best use of resources against decks that utilize cheap, taxing counters.

Leyline is also a good choice, and was actually surprised to see you did not run them. I suppose with Stifle, these also cover similar matchups.

Congrats on the win! Could you also discuss the decision to not run bounce spells in the sb? Perhaps Stifle serves a similar purpose against hate except for Humility / Ensnaring Bridge (which arguably you're not likely to see too many of). I'm also curious about your board plan for Miracles / Esper Control. Thanks.

Stifles counteract all the "fair decks" sideboard answers such as karakas, Oring, etc. Stifle won me game 3 against 13 Post stifling his Ostone when he attempted to blow it up. Defense grids are for miracles, RUG, and stoneblade. Generally intuition and some mix of spell pierce and flusterstorm come out. Also I drop 1 basic island and 1 lotus petal for karakas against stoneblade and miracles. Against BUG you need your 1 mana counterspells for their hand disruption so I only board out the intuition for REB. Also to note stifle cannot counter the delayed trigger of sneak attack forcing you to sacrifice your creature. It is all 1 trigger when you put your fattie into play. I opted not to play bounce spells in the board because of the complete lack of respect people give this deck. Stifle handles most hate outside of ensnaring bridge and a few others while having some awesome interactions. Also misdirecting hymns and thoughtseizes are awesome.

Amazing tournament kaosjr! congrats for winning! is there any report you've written about the tournament to be read?! btw if you're still writing it and can just tell us what you sb in and out in every match up with your choise of cards that would be just great. Later!

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Originally Posted by kaosjr

Also to note stifle cannot counter the delayed trigger of sneak attack forcing you to sacrifice your creature. It is all 1 trigger when you put your fattie into play. I opted not to play bounce spells in the board because of the complete lack of respect people give this deck. Stifle handles most hate outside of ensnaring bridge and a few others while having some awesome interactions.

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Thanks for the comment about bounce vs. stifle. But are you sure about the triggered ability? My understanding (and I think others') is that stifle counters the delayed trigger when cast in response to the @ end of turn trigger going on the stack.