I want to play Goblins at the GP Amsterdam.
I have a question:
I have in my hand: Mountain, Lackey, Vial.
What is better turn 1: Mountain, Lackey or Mountain, Vial?
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I want to play Goblins at the GP Amsterdam.
I have a question:
I have in my hand: Mountain, Lackey, Vial.
What is better turn 1: Mountain, Lackey or Mountain, Vial?
That depends on some factors. Each of the following factors gives you a tendency in the one direction or the other:
1. Do you know which deck you are playing against?
If you don't, then the tendency should be towards playing Lackey, because it is a must-handle for most decks (e.g. if you arte facing combo you can't waste your first turn with playing Vial)
2. How many mana-denial cards (this includes removal if you are facing decks with Noble Hierarch) does your hand have?
If you have lots of Wastelands/Rishadan Port you should play Vial and lean back while crashing your opp's manabase.
3. How many Goblins do you have in hand?
I you have only 1-2 other Goblins you should lead with Vial. A Lackey wouldn't bring you a fast start anyways.
4. What are the manacosts of the Goblins in your hand?
If you hold some cc3 (or higher) spells in your hand, Vial is too slow to cheat them into play. As an example:
You want to bring in a Goblin Matron.
Vial needs: 1 turn to play it + 3 turns to gather the necessary charge-counters. 4 turns in total
Lackey needs: 1 turn to play it + X turns to connect it.
If you think that X is smaller than '3' (the time Vial needs) you should play Lackey. Here you should consider: those 3 extra-cards you draw, possible blockers and...
5. ...The number of removal you have in your hand.
If your hand doesn't give you the chance to remove blockers you should stick to Vial. If your hand has a removal (or you playing against a deck where removal isn't necessary - like combo) go first with Lackey.
As stated above: Removal can act as manadenial. If you have 'too many' removal-cards in your hand you can just as well play Vial and act like an asshole-control-deck: tick up your vial and keep the board clear.
6. Does your opponent have countermagic?
If you are sure that your opponent will be able to counter your first spell (e.g. by starting with "U-fetchland, Go.") play Lackey first (to make sure that Vial resolves). Against decks with countermagic Vial usually means more trouble than Lackey. However, you should carefully playtest 'blue' Matchups to get a feeling for this, because some of those decks run tons of spotremoval - so they won't need to actually counter your Lackey.
Completely depending on what you are playing against and what game it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixx
Versus an unknown opponent I would go with Lackey first. Versus blue.dec I would try the vial.
As in the long run it gives more value and can only be stopped by FoW and else will get you something out of it. Where as Lackey is FoW, and 1 mana removal, or creature by the opponent.
VS Combo I would go with lackey first as the initial tempo boost outweighs vial.
Also the decision might be different depending on the rest of your hand, do you have removal for a possible T1 creature by the opp, SCG...
greets
/e: see gobolord as this is what happens lurking in the reply menu ;)
Very nice summery GoboLord, I agree. Hopefully we can avoid another lengthy discussion about this, since Goblins have far more serious problems at the moment.
What problems are those?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hof
i find canadian ***** pretty much impossible to beat. Even though I did not face any in a real tournament, people test it a lot on cockatrice. First turn delver or mongoose makes sure lackey wont connect, and another insanely good card against is Stifle. I lost like three matches already only to that card + snapcaster.
Primarily Combo! eg Storm tendrils. We can't race them, so we try to stall them with cards like Chalice of the Void for example
Others such as large untargetable creatures that are cheated in eg No Rug, Progenitus. Stingscourger doesn't even help here.
Therefore I play with Warren Weirding and no Stingscourger.Quote:
Originally Posted by orcanmail
Play some Blood Moons on the board. Their're awesome in today's metagame, and almost completely shut down Canadian. If against the Delver version, Knesis is good too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Augustas
@Orcanmail: Piledriver has Progenituswalk too. Keep that in mind. Knesis is also very good against all decks that pack progenitus, killing all their mana dorks.
@Gobolord: Good sum up.
Ive honestly havent had to much trouble with combo but that is also because of an odd sb card and some agressive mulling. You typically need to mull into a hand of turn 1 vial/lacky turn 2 pyrostatic pillar with some sort of a solid threat in hand to sneak in. This forces them to use ad naus early and agressively to try and go off before they get into an unwinable board state which is allways a good way to put someone on tilt as well.Quote:
Primarily Combo! eg Storm tendrils. We can't race them, so we try to stall them with cards like Chalice of the Void for example
What I have been running as far as a sb towards an unknown or larger meta is:
4 pyrostatic pillar
3 tormods crypt
2 surgical extraction
3 pyrokinesis
3 blood moon
It allows for alot of flexable options towards various decks.
Hey!
With GP Amsterdam coming this weekend i'm looking for some Sideboarding-advice. I've played against some dutch players recently and was told that Combo was quite popular in the Netherlands. I've been playing with 4 Thorn of Amethyst and 2 Mindbreak Traps in testing and still lost a good amount of matches by them going off before I could land a Thorn or by simply not drawing my boarded cards.
How many slots in the board should i dedicate to combo hate? I feel like matchup will never be that great, so are they even worth it or should i play other stuff?
My Board so far was:
2 Tormods Crypt
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
I'm playing mono red btw. Cards I consider playing, should i cut down the Combo hate are REB, Blood Moon/Magus, Anarchy, Shattering Spree.
Considering the variety of storm-combo deck you might face you should decide to go one of the follwing ways (that being said from someone who already succesfully piloted Goblin in the Dutch combo meta):Quote:
Originally Posted by Calis
(1) Don't run any specific combohate at all. This way is absolutely reasonable. When you want to go to Day#2 you must go X-2 on Saturday. Just hope you will face combo not more than twice and make sure you get the other MUs positive.
(2) Make your SB an anti-combo-board but don't run cards that are dedicated to only 1 deck (I mean: you got TES, TNT, ANT, DDFT, Belcher and Spring Tide, all of which are quite different to deal with).
My suggestion would be:
3 Earwig Squad
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
Explanation:
All of those cards are good against a variety of decks:
* Squad: Virtually any deck that relies on some specific cards to kill you
* REB: almost any deck that play U. Especially strong against Merfolk and HiveMind
* Chalice: next to combo you can bring it in against Reanimator (@1), Burn (@1), Threshol (@1), Affinity (@0)
* Leyline: many stormcombo-deck need their graveyard for cards like: Cabal Ritual, Ill-Gotten Gains, Past in Flames and Time Spiral. moreover you can crush Reanimator, Threshold and Dredge (especialy Manaless) with it.
About Thorn: You should be able to play some Goblins on Turn 2. That's why I like to pay either 0, 1 or 3 for my storm-combo hate, since turn 2 is the most important one for you.
//Edit: You should modify your deck likelywise if you go for option #2. This mean running artifact hate (like Scrapper) in MD!
//Edit#2: ...oh and it's important to know what to take out against combo. Likely candidates are (ranked with the worst card on top)
1. Aether Vial
2. Gempalm
3. Stingscourger/Warren Weirding
4. Ringleader
5. some utility-Goblins (like Scrapper)
6. Lightning Bolt
This should give you room for at least 10-12 SB cards.
My deck will be as follows:
Maindeck:
--------------
4 AEther Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Goblin Chieftain
2 Warren Instigator
3 Warren Weirding
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Stingscourger
2 Rishadan Port
1 Aunties Hovel
4 Wasteland
5 Mountains
1 Swamp
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:
1 Tuk-Tuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Perish
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Tormods Crypt
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Blood Moon
I just need to cut 1 sideboard card...
I agree with most of your explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
But what I have found out so far is that Merfolk isn't a very bad matchup for Goblins.
I personally think that HiveMind won't be played that much.
I rather prefer to trade the REB for Perish, which is good against Zoo and Maverick. I expect the latter to be played quite a lot.
Old love never fades. After trying out various builds of Zoo, a homebrew deck and Dredge, I once again turn to Goblins for GP Amsterdam. But as we all have noticed, times have changed. Canadian Threshold is back and with GW Maverick we have another player. Combo has surged since the banning of Mental Misstep and it seems Show and Tell has been abandonded. Meanwhile Goblins easiest matchup, Merfolk has lost some popularity. But in these dark times, hope shimmers as players underestimate Goblins and don't pack Engineered Plague.
To prepare for this field, I quickly decided Lightning Bolt was insane and 4 are in order. I then noticed how many of the popular archetypes and cards rely on graveyards: Goyf, Lavamancer, Tombstalker, Snapcaster Mage, dredge and Reanimator. I have done this before and will now do it again: maindeck Relic of Progenitus. Sacrifices have to be made and my most radical change is cutting Goblin Piledriver down to just 1. I read an article of Richard Feldman regarding dredge and he did not play any specific Dread Return targets claiming that he was just as happy to take a scrappy victory with Ichorid, Narcomoeba and Putrid Imp beats and that he could always animate a large Grave Troll. Goblin Piledriver gives you the sweet taste of swinging in for 15 damage, but he does not help you establish control in a precarious situation. In other words, I feel like Piledriver is winmore and this feeling is excacerbated by the decline of Merfolk. I still like having 1 to be able to tutor with Matron.
Goblin Warchief, Piledriver and Matron work very well together. If we cut Piley, Warchief loses a lot of it's power. Without Piledriver, Goblins becomes much more focused on the control role and we should maximize the power of our cards. For this reason I chose to play Goblin Chieftain over Warchief.
// Lands
17 [SHM] Mountain (1)
4 [TE] Wasteland
// Creatures
2 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
4 [US] Goblin Matron
4 [ZEN] Warren Instigator
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
3 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
1 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
2 [PLC] Stingscourger
4 [M10] Goblin Chieftain
// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [B] Lightning Bolt
2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
1 [MR] Chrome Mox
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [SOM] Arc Trail
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
Sideboard is focused on helping me deal with the hardest matchups: combo and Reanimator. Notably, there are no REBs. I felt like they were always underwhelming, ANT honestly doesn't care too much.
Hi, I will also play Goblins in Amsterdam.
This is my SB:
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Krosan Grip
1 Tin Street Hooligan
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Perish
Would you play Mindbreak Trap over Pyrostatic Pillar? I just tested against TES and PP was great.
Several reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by aequi
* Storm combo will most likely bring in Chain of Vapor (and side out Orim's Chant) because they expect threats in form of permanents (Chalice, Thorn, Lackey). With MBT you navigate around their anti-hate.
* Pillar costs 2 mana. This means that you wil likely not cast a Goblin on turn 2. This is actually a bad idea since you should use your lands either on playing Goblins or for Manadenial (Wasteland/Port). MBT costs 0 to play and does therefore not disrupt your setup
* Pillar doesn't stop Turn-1-kills, MBT does.
In fact I'd play CHalice over Pillar since you can set it @ 0 (and it does therefore not disrupt your setup).
Earwig Squad is a nice card, but i think its too slow after all. id go for MBT and REB.
what about 1 tuktuk vs tinkerer MD?
Thanks for your fast reply. But MBT is only against Combo!? With PP in the SB, I could board it in against Aluren, Elves and Belcher. Or am I'm wrong? In my second turn I could hope for vial / lackey to be already on the board and use my wastelands and ports to save some time for PP.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
Would you play Ancient Grudge over Krosan Grip?
This is my Deck:
Lands (22)
3 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Taiga
Creatures (27)
2 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Lackey
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Chieftain
Removal (7)
1 Stingscourger
2 Warren Weirding
4 Gempalm Incinerator
Artifacts (4)
4 Ęther Vial
Sideboard:
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Krosan Grip
1 Tin Street Hooligan
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Perish
I agree that MBT is def a powerful card against combo, but from my experience various combo decks tend to have 1-3 bounce cards after board vs 4 -6 discard effects. Which allows them to dig less with adnaus and take less overall damage sculpting their hand with brainstorm effects/building more storm with X ritual effects + tutor for tutor chaining. Overall though it boils down to personal preference pillar + threats puts them in a worse position, where as MBT can just auto win if they don't bother to duress before going off. I like pillar myself but i've also run it in every sligh or gobbo deck i've put together after they printed the card.