Better start coming up with decklists that don't abuse LED.
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Better start coming up with decklists that don't abuse LED.
Meh. LED is still abuseable. They just cut out that corner-case of Mystical Tutoring up an Ad Nauseam and cracking LED in your upkeep. IGG loop got hit with the nerfbat much harder.
Yeah, I'm angry about it.
For those unaware of what are saying the 2 people above me, check this.
This obviously removes the "break LED in the upkeep, float mana in the draw step, play Ad Nauseam" trick, that we're doing something like 1 match out of 4. Not bad as a mess.
Additional suckish rules states that the removed from the game zone no longer applies to cards imprinted in a Chrome Mox or Removed with Diminishing Returns (they are instead "exiled"). This sucks too: you can't anymore Burning Wish for one of those cards.
Oh, yeah, our LED is supposed to get stronger now that doesn't manaburn you! LOL.
Let the flame begin.
I was considering building TES, but haven't completely assembled everything yet. How much does it hurt not to be able to 1) go IGG loop with multiple LED, Infernal Tutor -> Burning Wish or 2) Mystical Tutor for Ad Nauseam during upkeep, cracking LED in response, and floating mana into the draw step?
Does that seriously hamper the ability of storm combos to compete? I suspect it would, but not as much for "good" combo players, but it's seriously discouraging for a new combo player like me to have to not be able to rely on those broken plays.
Case #1 is still possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
#2 is a bit harder, as it comes out quite often.
Combi will still survive, with almost the same matchups percentages, but sucks anyway.
That's unfortunate, we will probably have to remove Mystical Tutor after 10th, that card is back to sucking all over again with out LED + AdN.
Why are people saying the IGG chain got nerfed? Did I miss something in the new rules?
This is unfortunate. But we'll live. You can still Wish for cards removed via Returns or Mox. I understand that they are 'exiled', but thats what the zone is now called. I'm sure Wish now says get an Exiled sorcery.
Also, what are people talking about the IGG loop for?
Unfortunately not:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Quote:
However, the acknowledgment that this zone is, in fact, fully within the game does bring about functional changes to the six Wishes, Ring of Ma'rűf, and the Research half of Research // Development. These cards let you get cards from "outside the game," which has been ruled to include your card collection (in casual games), your sideboard (in tournament games), and the removed-from-the-game zone. That's no longer the case. Exiled cards are not outside the game (and you could argue that they never really were), so these cards will no longer be able to access cards in that zone. Their primary functionality—getting cards from your collection or sideboard—remains unchanged, of course.
The thing I'm most angry about is I'm forced to add Ill-Gotten Gains back into the maindeck. Thanks a lot fuckbags.
EDIT: I'm goldfishing as if the bullshit changes happened. I'm still not too disappointed. Igg can stay out of the MD.
I was just thinking the same thing Bryant.
When did you remove IGG from the maindeck?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Is it time to remove some number of Mysticals from the deck, now that the upkeep-LED trick is not available anymore?
Well, Mystical => AdNauseam with LED in play (onto the batllefield :vomits:) is manageable for builds packing Sensei's Top (alla DDFT).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Ra
But I dunno if we can sneak Tops into TES lists...
I only play 3 Mystical, it still fetches Ad Nauseam/Dark Ritual/Protection. So, I'm keeping it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenOne
I cut IGG last week after 4-0ing a local then lost 2 games in top 4 to Mulliganing because I drew Igg and flipping Igg on Ad Nauseam. I'm replacing it with Ponder 4. You still have access to Igg via Wish, you just need +2 mana for the Igg Loop now.
Man, it seems that you're going to reduce the variety of Storm engines that made your deck strong. Are you really sure you want it ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Anywhere, Forsythe and all those who introduced these shitty rules are sons of a bitch. Goddamn fucking new rules, they want us to play the crappy formats like Standard, or are they inducing us to leave Magic and join Yugioh? Fuckers.
And now I'm fearing for the worst option. I have the feeling that on the 20th of June something will change, and it will seriously mutilate this deck ( and others, i hope).
However, hoping that they won't ban LED, we must find a way to not lose too much the power of this deck. I mean, the LED+AdNos in upkeep was very , very busted, it allowed for turn 2 kills. Now that this is not possible anymore, i don't know how much this deck loses of its main advantage, i.e. absurd speed. Will we have to cast AdNos always by rituals without exploiting LED's bustness? That's shitty.
It's time to work on a new list. Are mysticals still worth in that quantity?
I still have access to Returns and IGG if I need them. They just cost an additional 1B now. Not a big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piceli89
They've already nuttered us a bit. Hopefully they ban counterbalance/top because of this....?
I won't be reducing the numbers of Mystical, it's still solid, plus I'm running Mystical targets when I sideboard.
EDIT: For those who are interested, my newest list is in the opening post.
You don't need multiple engines MD, I cut IGG and Returns a long, long time ago and reducing your dead draws for business (in the case of Ad Nauseam or Disruption) does nothing but improve your control match ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piceli89
Mystical really, really sucks with out LED, you're better off cutting the card disadvantage tutor for redundancy, considering it's no longer a LED enabler. Also, SBing changes a lot IMO, because now Ponder is back to being filler.
Bryant, be sincere. How much games you won because of a very early Mystical+LED+AN? I don't know for you, but personally i won LOTS of games. Plus, the impossibility not to do this basically makes the deck a lot worse against black decks packing plenty of discard. How much you think the deck is going to be weakened because of this new fucking ruling ? I think that we lose the most broken option we could exploit, and this is very, very bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
I'd really like that they'd ban Counter-fucking-Top, but as now I'm so disilluded from WotC seeing what fucking mess thay're pulling up that it's very likely they won't touch anything, and blue CB aggro-control decks will officially dominate Legacy, there's no out from this.
You can still use LED. It'll just be different, I'm tired of these "the sky is falling reactions".You can still Mystical for Infernal/Wish/Ad Nauseam and get an Engine/mana/protection. It may slow us down a turn, but it's no different from pre-Nauseam LED combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piceli89
Yes, it'll hurt against discard. How that's such a small portion on the metgame I don't care.
I count 6 times in 19 games won. It's a trick used quite often. The deck will not die, however, losing that trick hurts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piceli89
Mystical doesn't suck now, not a single bit. It's a tutor that can bring up almost anything in your deck when needed, including protection/disruption. So I'm not sure how that's bad?
I really don't think the deck has lost any power, people just can't rely on the draw step trick any longer.