[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

Changed arround with the deck again....

I decided I didnt really like the bitterblossoms and rather spend life on drawing cards with the arena, misstep back in to the deck but the board. Cuted a Vindicate for a dismember. Cuted the 5th fetch for a Swamp, running moxes again.

So deck is now with latest updates:

4 Dark Confidance
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 phyrexian Obliterator
3 Gatekeeper of malakir
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and mind
2 Phyrexian Arena

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
3 Vindicate
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 hymn to Tourach

3 Chrome mox
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrublands
2 Fetid heaths
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Plains, god, I still hate this card! :P
4 Swamps
4 Wastelands

Board
2 Perish
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Phyrexian Crusader
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Mortarpod
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Manriki-Gusari
3 Mental Misstep

I really felt I wanted more cheap removal, Changing a Vindicate for a Dismember really felt good cos it avoids both Spellsnare, Mental Misstep and Daze. Most of the time Vindicate does kill creatures anyway and dismember is so easy to cast with little mana or with enought mana anyway. Such a good spell. If it proves to be worth it even more might even reduce some more vindicates for dismembers.

I've been running Go for the Throat as my generic creature removal (4 Swords, 2 Throat, 4 Vindicate) but I could see putting Dismember in that spot. I was worried about taking extra damage but this is a black deck after all, derp.

Ah forgot about the disynergy between Chrome Mox and Silent Stone oh well moving on. I also see Liliana having a lot of potential since she is a strong utility card being discard, creature removal and pseudo vindicate in one.

On our matchups against Reanimator, is it that we have an auto loose to it game 1? I fought against a friend of mine running reanimator, and a reanimated Jin-Gitaxias or Elesh Norn hurts a lot, especially Elesh Norn since most of the creatures we run have a toughness of at most 2 instantly killing all of our creatures, Jin on the other hand would just be a matter of top decking removal and praying that your opponent doesn't have counter back up (which is not likely with him drawing 8 cards a turn). My friends' build has tons of counters so I am not sure if it applies to other reanimator builds as well, but it is very hard fought battle with him countering almost anything I throw at him then he would reanimate Jin refill his hand for more counters then the battle continues on. Then post board should an opening hand of any of our GY hate be good enough to battle this? Would mulling aggressively for an opening hand of Leyline of the Void be a good play?

most likely what i'm going to propose is already propsed, but going to post it anyway.
Did mass removal (wrath / DoJ) already has been considered as a SB card? when playing creature decks, I often feel like it would come in handy, but with bob on the field 4 other 4CMC card might do alot dmg :/?
thoughts?

I have had positive matchup against Reanimate so far :P

Losing only to Reanmaite t2 Gingitaxis on the play while being mana screwed. To beat them you need to have removal for that Gingitaxis in game 1. Game 2 and 3 Briniing in the Missteps, extractions. Hope you get a hand with combination of discard spells, missteps and extractions and lands then draw into creatures / removal. Gitaxis is the most dangerous creature for us. Gatekeeper does take good care of the other creatures that have shroud.

Only mass removal I play is Perish. Think i have seen some play a damnation or 2 in their board but I dont really like. What decks do you want that against? and 4 mana. A mass Removal i have been thinking of is the Black Sun Zenith only 2 damage from revaling from bob. Shuffles it self into the deck. Costs only 3 mana to kill empty the warren tokens. But really atm the decks where it goes perish does that job atm.

I have considered mass removal as part of my SB, WoG might be a little bit more expensive for this deck since they can reanimate as early as turn 2 or 3, so it might be too late when I cast this so I widened my card choices to Retribution of the Meek (I read something about this here), can kill Elesh Norn and Jin since they have 4 or more Power and is only 3 CMC. BSZ can be considered but it would cost at least 6 to kill a Jin.

Yeah, Jin is very devastating if reanimated early, I had that happened to me a couple of times during playtest and it is very hard to deal with. I had to pray when I top decked removal that he doesn't have counter backup. Elesh Norn can be dealt with but a combination of both is very deadly.

Another card I have considered is Phyrexian Metamorph, kills legends like Jin and I use it to copy my own or opposing Batterskulls, if I need it to copy something else I use the bounce ability of Batterskull to reuse Metamorph to get rid of annoying legends like Jitte's. It's very versatile since you do not need to use MD slot for extra Jitte to get rid of oppossing Jittes, and can copy the strongest creature an opponent controls such as KotR, goyfs etc. A singleton would do since you do not want him in your hand if you don't need anything to copy. The only downside I see is that he can't be imprinted on a Chrome Mox.

I've never lost a match to Reanimator, and rarely a game. Just make sure their Jin doesn't stick around a turn. Pre-board I have 6 instant speed spot removal spells in addition to all the hand disruption. I also have the miser's Karakas. They have no answer to that besides Angel of Despair, which also eats Swords/Gatekeeper/GFTT/Vindicate.

With 8-10 hand disruption spells, 6 instant speed spot removal, and possibly mental misstep for entomb/reanimate/careful study/cantrips I don't think you should have any real issues with that matchup.

Ok noted, more instant removal, I only run 4 at the moment which is STP, might up that count to 6 or 7 with either GftT and Dismember. Karakas is another option I was thinking of since the version I was play testing with doesn't run wastelands, but I am having a hard time finding one so instant removal will have to do at the moment.

I was considering this from ISD:

Victim of Night BB
Instant (C)
Destroy target non-Vampire, non-Werewolf, non-Zombie creature.

It can hit pesky artifact creatures like Ravager, opposing Revokers, Master of Etherium, etc. The only con I see here is the cost BB, any thoughts?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paladin3056

It can hit pesky artifact creatures like Ravager, opposing Revokers, Master of Etherium, etc. The only con I see here is the cost BB, any thoughts?

---

It is probably the best Terror variant printed so far in terms of killing power. Double black though really focus's the deck on black with a splash of white, just like triple and quadruple black does for the creatures, so you probably can not use spells that are double white as well.

Would much rather play dismember or go for the throat then that spell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paladin3056

Ok noted, more instant removal, I only run 4 at the moment which is STP, might up that count to 6 or 7 with either GftT and Dismember. Karakas is another option I was thinking of since the version I was play testing with doesn't run wastelands, but I am having a hard time finding one so instant removal will have to do at the moment.

I was considering this from ISD:

Victim of Night BB
Instant (C)
Destroy target non-Vampire, non-Werewolf, non-Zombie creature.

It can hit pesky artifact creatures like Ravager, opposing Revokers, Master of Etherium, etc. The only con I see here is the cost BB, any thoughts?

---

If anything, Liliana of the Veil is the best option from Innistrad so far. And even then, I couldn't honestly suggest the card for the maindeck, sideboard maybe would be the best choice for her.

Played at the local GPT for Amsterdam today with the following list:

4 Mother of Runes
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

4 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Gerrard's Verdict
3 Mental Misstep

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Vindicate
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
2 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Scrubland
3 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Marsh Flats
2 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Chrome Mox

SB:
3 Perish
3 Extirpate
2 Path to Exile
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Aura of Silence
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Duress
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Enlightened Tutor

I went 4:2 and was pretty content overall. Verdict and Batterskull were the weakest cards imho (Verdict>Hymn just b/c of mana-issues).
The two matches I lost each went to game 3 where I mulled into oblivion each game.

Split the finals of the Battleground Duel for Duals today. ~30 people, top 8 breakdown was Deadguy x2, team America, aggro loam w/ natural order, URg landstill, junk depths, reanimator, merfolk. Top 4 Deadguy x2, aggro loam, reanimator. The other Deadguy player in the top 4 had a very different build with chrome mox, maindeck revokers, mirran crusader, SoFI, duress and cabal therapy as main disruption (he said he didn't have thoughtseizes).

List and short report to come after I get wasted tonight.

Here's what I played yesterday:

Creatures (12):
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Tidehollow Sculler

Instants (6):
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Dismember

Sorceries (14):
4 Vindicate
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek

Planeswalker (1):
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Enchantment (2):
2 Bitterblossom

Artifact (5):
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands (20):
1 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Scrubland
1 Fetid Heath
4 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas

Sideboard (15):
1 Batterskull
3 Perish
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Duress
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Bitterblossom
2 Phyrexian Crusader


Round 1: URg Landstill with Stifle/Dreadnaught (made top 8)

Every bad excuse applies to these games. I took a mulligan each game, got stuck on 2 lands after getting hit by multiple wastelands, and he had multiple Grim Lavamancers. They weren't very close.

0-1 (0-2)

Round 2: Cephalid Breakfast

I was sitting next to this guy as he played my friend in round 1. I had a little idea of what I was facing but it looked like the do literally everything combo deck. He had played Nomads, Cephalid Illusionist, Therapy, and Narcomoebas, but also Stoneforge Mystic, Batterskull, and Triskelion. I wasn't really sure what to expect.

Game 1 I rip his hand up and win with a Jitte on 5 counters preventing him from playing much of anything. I board thinking that he had the usual Kiki-Jiki/Sky Hussar combo as well as Ooze/Devourer/Triskelion as a backup plan, and bring in Ghostly Prison. Turns out he wasn't on that plan.

Game 2 my turn 2 hymn hits a Mimeoplasm. I guess that explains things. He plays Stoneforge Mystic and gets Shuko and plays it. That also explains some things! Game 2 ended uneventfully, but he was definitely playing an interesting brew. He said he drew a bunch of dead cards, but that's why I don't like Cephalid Breakfast. They have like 12 cards you never want in your hand.

1-1 (2-2)

Round 3: Team America

Don't really remember this round well, but it was pretty typical of how this matchup goes. Lots of Hymning, then hopefully drawing well afterwards.

2-1 (4-2)

Round 4: Merfolk (made top 8)

It's my friend Ethan, and he asks if I want to ID. I'd be fine playing it out since Merfolk is a cakewalk, but I was also fine gambling with drawing there and just playing the last round. If we played it out, the loser would be out of contention while the winner might get paired down against an x-1-1 and have to play anyway. He ended up winning his round 5 as well before losing to Aggro Loam in the quarters.

2-1-1 (4-2)

Round 5: Faerieninjastill!

His deck was pretty cool, but just being cool doesn't win you matches. He never had a clock and I was fine playing under Standstill for a while, then leisurely broke it, got a Jitte, cleared his board, and killed him. I learned some stuff about how Ninjutsu worked though.

3-1-1 (6-2)

Top 8: Junk Depths

I thought he was playing BUG Landstill. I saw him picking his cards up after one of his swiss matches and I saw Innocent Blood, P. Deed, Life from the Loam, and Bayous. Whoops! Game 1 he's on the play with the Hexmage beatdown plan while aggressively Wastelanding me out.

Game 2, he took a mulligan and didn't look too happy about his keep. He played a couple guys, I had a Perish and beat down with some Bobs.

Game 3, he opens with T1 Mox, Living Wish for Wasteland, T2 Living Wish for Goyf and kill my land. I Dismember the Goyf and play a Bob. He doesn't have removal for Bob and I accumulate lands as he keeps putting blockers in my way. I find enough removal to eventually kill him. He mentions that he thought he was too all-in on comboing during the swiss and thought he should just try to play the creature game against me, since his creatures are generally bigger.

4-1-1 (8-3)

Top 4: Aggro Loam with Natural Order (Micah Greenbaum, who won an SCG open with a different list from the same archetype)

I don't know how I won this. I think this matchup is quite horrible, and only won due to some ridiculous luck. Game 1 I'm on the play with T2 Bob, T3 Bob, T4 Elspeth. He Dreams for 1 but still needs to kill my Elspeth, which he doesn't do. I'm threatening an Elspeth emblem, but I can't realistically make one without losing her to Punishing Fire, which slows me down for a while but I find a Bitterblossom and ride them out. I feel like I had what was the perfect opening in this matchup, and I was on the play, and I still BARELY won.

Game 2 he took a double mulligan and leads with Forgotten Cave tapped. Not good. I Inquisition him and see Cave, Loam, Loam, Bob. I obviously take the Bob. He cycles his Cave and plays a Verdant Catacombs. Next turn he starts Loaming and drawing some cards, but I already have a Stoneforge online and his few creatures are too little too late. I play a top. He has 6 cards in hand, and casts Dreams for 4 to kill my Stoneforge, Germ and all my lands (notably, 3 of my 4 basics). I draw a land and play a Bitterblossom before he can do anything else. He said any other combination of 4 cards to discard would have been fine, but dumping all of the lands he had in hand while simultaneously clearing his board was too much, and left the Terravore that would have ended the game stranded in his hand.

5-1-1 (10-3)

Top 2: Split with Reanimator, yay. I know I recently said Reanimator is an easy matchup, but my friend who drove had to get home and it was an hour drive or so, so we left. Got me some Mare Sotterraneos, swag.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rizso

Would much rather play dismember or go for the throat then that spell.

---

Have to agree with that, Dismember is much more versatile hands down. With its cost going from :1:, :1B: or :1BB: and can kill a large majority of creatures, except a developed Goyf and an overdeveloped KotR, its pretty much the 2nd removal of choice together with Go for the Throat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LegacyDan

If anything, Liliana of the Veil is the best option from Innistrad so far. And even then, I couldn't honestly suggest the card for the maindeck, sideboard maybe would be the best choice for her.

---

I am currently testing her in my deck and I'm still getting a hand on how to use her properly. The best moment to play her is when my opponent has a few cards in hand and no creatures in play, she has pretty much locked the game by then. If I draw her in the early game I will just imprint it on my Chrome Mox since I don't want her too early, too many key spells in hand that I don't want to discard.

@bfeingersh - great work, I was wondering how was 20 lands working for you, don't you get mana screwed? I'm running 20 lands and 2 Chrome Mox and even then I get mana screwed, I was wondering if its because of bad luck. Is 2 Bitterblossom enough in the deck or would you add 1 more?

@paladin: Not particularly, but I could definitely see adding another basic or two. The deck can function decently on 2 lands, as long as you don't go all in on a Stoneforge, then get Swordsed and Wastelanded off white the next turn. The only times I really getting screwed are when I mull into a 6 card hand like Marsh Flats, Wasteland, Stoneforge, Thoughtseize, Vindicate, Tidehollow Sculler on the play game 1. Fetching Swamp on T1 is the safest play, but getting a Scrubland lets you do good stuff on T2... as long as they don't have a Wasteland. Which they always do, obviously.

Today I took part to a 66th people tournament.

MY LIST
creatures
3 Aven Mindcensor
4 Dark Confidant
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Stoneforge Mystic
istant
4 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
sorcery
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
3 Vindicate
enchantment
3 Bitterblossom
artifact
1 Batterskull
3 Chrome Mox
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
lands
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
4 Scrubland
5 Swamp
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland

sideboard
4 Extirpate
3 Perish
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Pithing Needle
3 Duress

G1: Kinda Standstil, 2-1
G2: Canadian Threshold, 2-1
G3: Zoo, 0-2
G4: Junk, 1-2
G5: Cefalid Breakfast, 2-0
G6: Merfolk UB, 2-1
G7: Team America, 1-2

Final: 4-3

Thoughts:
1) Aven Mindcensor: I choose this card as a maindeck answer to Natural Order, Stoneforge and Intuition. I didn't find Natural Order and Intuition decks. During G1 this card has been weak and not usefull, alle the time I played it, it has been removed or didn't make any difference. I always side it out.
2) Chrome Mox: Any time I started the game playing this card, I won the game. This card give to the deck what it needs to become more competitive: speed!
3) Mental Misstep: in my meta, quite all the decks plays misstep! I choose to play it maindeck to have an answer to other Misstep and to protect my creatures from removal. Life loss is intensive. Maybe Mother of the Runes is better?
4) Gatekeeper of Malakir and Bitterblossom are so good. I'm thinking about playing one more copy each.
5) Ghostly Prison: I choose this card as sideboard answer to aggro deck but I found it weak. I think I should have a maindeck answer to aggro decks.

With Mental Misstep gone from the meta game we have to get ready for a surge of combo, counterbalance and large reduction of control decks.

Time to dust of the Engineered Explosives to battle Counterbalance.

Just read the ban list on Mental Misstep for Legacy, and it seems that certain archetypes would return. Never saw that coming, then again it is widely used by a wide range of decks, even those running without blue. Now we won't be afraid of casting an STP without having it Misstepped, now they have to use the old ways of FoW, Daze and Spell Pierce. I think the Meta would revert back to the way it was before MM, just with a few changes with the addition of ISD.

@bfeingersh - yeah this deck can survive with just 2 lands, 3 is better to cast our Vindicates and Swords or even Liliana of the Veil. There are some times that I get a hand full of non basics and no fetches like a scrubland and a waste or Scrubland and a Fetid Heath, should I mulligan for a more stable land base or keep and pray for no wastes?

@annoiato - how were your match ups against Zoo, Junk and Team america? Aven Mindcensor is an interesting card, but I was wondering what to put out since the deck is really tight already.

With the inevitable return of Counterbalance, Goblins, and Spiral Tide I think I'm going to revert to a list similar to the one I made T8 in Charlotte with. Vials and more white centric with some number of Phyrexian Revoker in the main. That guy is the nuts and won me so many games. Dropping him with Vial in response to Candelabra always makes me smile.

Bring back Enlightened Tutor, at least in the board, and life is good, plus you can play one O-Ring as searchable removal. Mother of Runes might not be bad to have a gain.

Firespout and EE will probably see more play again and that's pretty bad news.

Truth be told I don't even know if I'll continue playing Magic at all. I was burnt out for a while and didn't really want to go to the last couple big events I did, but I needed the Open points. Then SCG changed their point structure and I won't even get free tournament entry anymore. I may just sell my cards and buy a motorcycle.

A accelerator is gonna be needed thats for sure. Glad i didnt sell my 4 foilad AEther Vials in case thats the road the deck should be going. Thought I do like the discard heavy mox version.

I think I'm moving back to Aether Vials and Serra Avengers as well.

No, please dont move to the dark side of Deadguy. Dont leave the strong side.

I tell you, Aether Vial and Avengers SUCK BALLS. Honestly, what do you want a 3/3 for? Chumpblocking a raging Knight of the Reliquary? Or what?`

Nah, if you really wanna play acceleration, please do use Chrome Moxe.

Greetings

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tim the Enchanter

With the inevitable return of Counterbalance, Goblins, and Spiral Tide I think I'm going to revert to a list similar to the one I made T8 in Charlotte with. Vials and more white centric with some number of Phyrexian Revoker in the main. That guy is the nuts and won me so many games. Dropping him with Vial in response to Candelabra always makes me smile.

Bring back Enlightened Tutor, at least in the board, and life is good, plus you can play one O-Ring as searchable removal. Mother of Runes might not be bad to have a gain.

Firespout and EE will probably see more play again and that's pretty bad news.

Truth be told I don't even know if I'll continue playing Magic at all. I was burnt out for a while and didn't really want to go to the last couple big events I did, but I needed the Open points. Then SCG changed their point structure and I won't even get free tournament entry anymore. I may just sell my cards and buy a motorcycle.

---

I proxied up a list based on that one, and thought it was really solid. Personally I think less discard effects is the way to go since these colors don't really offer much in terms of draw fixing and hand sculpting.

Less discard? NO WAY! I was thinking of playing like 4 Hymn 3 Thoughtseize and 3 Duress. So adding 2more discard. Dont play less. You dont wanna lose to Combo, trust me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paladin3056

@annoiato - how were your match ups against Zoo, Junk and Team america? Aven Mindcensor is an interesting card, but I was wondering what to put out since the deck is really tight already.

---

Against Zoo (with Steppe Lynx) I had no chances to win. It is too fast and my Ghostly Prison were too slow (maybe also a wrong sideboard choice's).
Against Junk and Team America I played a good fight but lost due bad topdeck!
Aven Mindcestor is not strong enough to take place maindeck. Too situational.

Post BAN I'm thinking about play again with Mother of the Runes (to protect creatures from removal) and Vial (to avoid rising Couterbalance and Snare decks) and back with SOFI.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipp802

Less discard? NO WAY! I was thinking of playing like 4 Hymn 3 Thoughtseize and 3 Duress. So adding 2more discard. Dont play less. You dont wanna lose to Combo, trust me.

---

I'd rather lose to aggro? Be realistic, discard alone has never been good enough to stop a good storm player. They'll just play out their mana sources and use every opportunity to dig for a tutor then chain tutors in to AdN or IGG to win.

People just need to get over their hard-ons for discard because it just isn't the all-inclusive answer it gets made out to be. It's usefulness varies wildly based on the game state, and for every game that you just wreck your opponent's hand, you'll have another game where you hit something redundant, or they just top-deck another threat/answer.

Go ahead and devote 10 slots to discard if you want, but you better be packing some Tops so you can attempt to find something that's actually relevant against Zoo after turn 3, or to deal with that Progenitus that came off a Natural Order hidden by a Brainstorm.

Its not like Ethersword Canonist does much against a potent storm player either. Some strange card is probly more usefull like Sadistic Sacrament. Or just ignore the storm matchup all together and accept to lose to it without spending your whole board plan against it. Mean Epic storm does run 4 silence effects and 4 duresses thats alot of protection. Our clock is slow and they can set their gameplan up and blow us out with AD naus, Past or iggy.

And rather spend the board to strenghten the deck against zoo, merfolk, , no rug and countertop / blade decks. Even if we spend all 15 cards in the board against storm i dont think its gonna be reaching 50%.

Plan with misstep gone is no more Go for the throat and lowered the amount of Vindicates.
Removal suite is now:
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Gatekeeper of malakir
2 Ghastly Demise
1 Dismember
2 Vindicate

Expecting alot more Merfolk, Zoo and goblins now and elves for that matter.

Where I've had the most success, and I think most storm players would agree (please correct me if I'm wrong), is with multiple, varied hate. Canonist alone is not very good. Canonist + Null Rod + Leyline of Sanctity? That will buy you a lot of time.

Discard alone won't make it, but discard + counters or other hate has a much better chance.

To me, it's just a meta choice. If your meta is full of Hive Mind and Spiral Tide, rock lots of discard. If it's TES/AnT, pack more diverse hate, and hope to get luckier than they do. Still, the whole point of combo is that sometimes it just craps out a win and there's nothing you can do about it. I'd rather strengthen the 50/50 matchups, and try to use combo-hate that has usefulness in other matchups as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipp802

No, please dont move to the dark side of Deadguy. Dont leave the strong side.

I tell you, Aether Vial and Avengers SUCK BALLS. Honestly, what do you want a 3/3 for? Chumpblocking a raging Knight of the Reliquary? Or what?`

Nah, if you really wanna play acceleration, please do use Chrome Moxe.

Greetings

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipp802

Less discard? NO WAY! I was thinking of playing like 4 Hymn 3 Thoughtseize and 3 Duress. So adding 2more discard. Dont play less. You dont wanna lose to Combo, trust me.

---

You annoy the shit out of me and I've never taken anything you say slightly seriously.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I have been a major factor in this deck's rise in popularity and success, and call myself an authority on this deck. I've made money at every SCG Open I've played this in. A T8 in Charlotte, with the whiter build, a T16 in Baltimore, and a T32 in Richmond. I also missed the money at the Indy Invitational by 1 match and lost in the T8 of an IQ because I drew 11 lands against one of the decks worst match ups. What the fuck have you done?

Have you ever seen someone flash V Clique in response to Show and Tell to win the game? You can do that, but better, with Vial and Sculler. How bout stopping Spiral Tide by Vialing Revoker in response to Candelabra or a Canonist after a High Tide?

I'd like to fit some Thoughtseize in but it's not mandatory.

I think your right about Avenger. What would I possibly want a 3/3 flyer with vigilance for in a format where most dudes are smaller and don't have flying. I mean she can't even stand toe to toe with green creatures while carrying a sword or with a Mom out, and getting 4 Jitte counters a round just seems terrible.

I'm not worried about combo. I am worried about recurring EE, Pernicious Deed, and Firespout which will all see more play.

Revoker is going to be stone cold nuts again. I promise.

@Dickcheese: I think Canonist + Heavy discard is varied enough. Tidehollow Sculler is great in the combo matchups. Play that shit like Alara block constructed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tim the Enchanter

You annoy the shit out of me and I've never taken anything you say slightly seriously.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I have been a major factor in this deck's rise in popularity and success, and call myself an authority on this deck. I've made money at every SCG Open I've played this in. A T8 in Charlotte, with the whiter build, a T16 in Baltimore, and a T32 in Richmond. I also missed the money at the Indy Invitational by 1 match and lost in the T8 of an IQ because I drew 11 lands against one of the decks worst match ups. What the fuck have you done?

Have you ever seen someone flash V Clique in response to Show and Tell to win the game? You can do that, but better, with Vial and Sculler. How bout stopping Spiral Tide by Vialing Revoker in response to Candelabra or a Canonist after a High Tide?

I'd like to fit some Thoughtseize in but it's not mandatory.

I think your right about Avenger. What would I possibly want a 3/3 flyer with vigilance for in a format where most dudes are smaller and don't have flying. I mean she can't even stand toe to toe with green creatures while carrying a sword or with a Mom out, and getting 4 Jitte counters a round just seems terrible.

I'm not worried about combo. I am worried about recurring EE, Pernicious Deed, and Firespout which will all see more play.

Revoker is going to be stone cold nuts again. I promise.

---

Could Mr. Arrogant show us the way to go after Mental Misstep ban then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipp802

Could Mr. Arrogant show us the way to go after Mental Misstep ban then?

---

He did. You ignored him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CorpT

He did. You ignored him.

---

By doing what? I wanna see an decklist not like 2 cards.

Theory and discussion > Blind decklists

I'll trust Tim's opinion over just about anyone else's in this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipp802

By doing what? I wanna see an decklist not like 2 cards.

---

Look at the T8 from SCG Charlotte. They have it listed as Tim Frank instead of Mr. Arrogant if you're having trouble finding the right one.

There are some changes I would make but I haven't thought about it too much because I haven't really been playing Magic recently. In fact, I played very little Magic at all between those big events and no Legacy at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipp802

By doing what? I wanna see an decklist not like 2 cards.

---

Philipp let it go. Tim is the only person I know that consistently posts results at major tournaments with this archetype. Either put up some numbers to back up your ideas or just be willing to let go of some of these pre-conceived notions of what's good and what isn't.

Anyway...

Tim where do you stand on Mom? I've never been that impressed with her, both on my side and the opponent's, but some people just swear by her.

I like her in Vial builds, with or without Misstep legal. She just does a bunch of stuff. Blanking Batterskull is a big one, as well as getting Sworded guys in.

When you play a bunch of creatures, versus BB, Mom is pretty good. She pretty much beats Merfolk on her own, and saving your guys from removal is key. On top of that she lets you push dudes through which is also pretty good. I had never thought of blanking Batterskull but it's true and a great reason to have her around. I'm not sure how dominant SFM will be post MM though.

Sorry for what I said but I was a lil pissed - not concerning this forum though.
Would you mind posting your list. I might prox it just to see how I like it - no worries it actually is good.
Greetings