I officially give up.
We don't need counterbalance. It's not fun. It just sucks. We don't want 3 tops. We want 1. Trinket mage. Is the best. That is all.
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I officially give up.
We don't need counterbalance. It's not fun. It just sucks. We don't want 3 tops. We want 1. Trinket mage. Is the best. That is all.
Couldn't agree more. The CB package is just mediocre in the current aggro // combo meta (StarCity DC had a good showcase). Trinket Mage EE takes care of the former, while Stifle is great against the latter - all without losing tempo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chikenbok
I know it's not NLT, but have you all looked at TA? The general plan is similar, just without the counter package... and well, lost of lavamancer + firespout. What's the consensus between the two decks?
I'm not trying to bring down the thread with the counterbalance comment, but for those of you who default to COUNTERBALANCE BAD sound retarded, have you ever resolved a counterbalance top vs junk and had a fow for vindicate or a 3 on top?
I'm not saying everyone should be playing counterbalance top but if the deck decided to run it comments like
I officially give up.
We don't need counterbalance. It's not fun. It just sucks. We don't want 3 tops. We want 1. Trinket mage. Is the best. That is all.
Don't help ANYONE.
Team America just won first place at a SCG event and is my favorite deck. Obviously it's good. However, not having Firespout does hurt its aggro matchup some, and its threat density is even lower.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaxe
Whoever suggested the idea or trinket mage + collar + grim in this deck is brilliant! I can't wait to test this deck to see my opponent's Jaw drop when I grim a KOTR to death with a collared lavamancer! Top props to you guys! Personally, I think Counterbalance is no longer a good choice for this meta. Especially with the printing of GSZ. GSZ is basically + 4 outs to balance in any decks with Green. I can't wait to give this deck a go. This is going to be awesome!
Isent a reliance on GSZ making daze/spell pierce much stronger? On the counter balance note though I personally was not a fan of it till I tried it in the deck I posted. The merits of Ctop have been discussed to hell and back so im going to leave it at that, and allow people to make their own decisions on the subject. On a different note though the trinket mage package def looks interesting the collar tech is pretty sweet I have to admit.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
The trinket mage packet allows us, PREBOARD to deal with fatties that we cant out goyf/remove, Get an early top to smooth out any game with less reliance on brainstorms and ponders. Oh and EE.. its just that good. I figure with more thresh coming in now its going to be important to land that ee on 1 to deal with a flock of nimble mongoose. Moreover, because the package has turned our aggro matchup preboard so INSANELY strong, we can dedicate more of our package to situational counterspells and other hate bears against random.dec
All in all, I highly suggest that everyone at least try the build I posted on the previous page, 20 land is perfect and after you've got mage + lavamancer + collar out, landing a jace kinda.. wins the game.
I'm actually getting one of mine altered so that the space between his hands says, "Good Game" on one and, "I'm Really Sorry" on the other.
Try the deck, see what I'm talking about, All Praise Next Level Thresh.
Nimble Mongoose hasn't been played for a long time. I think what you meant was Zoo kitties amirite? Anyway I'll give this deck a go along with Team America. Will post a comparison.
IMO collar isn't just good with lavamancer, it turns Trinket Mage into an answer to opposing goyfs/ kotrs. Collar also can help you win races when you are getting in there in the air with a clique. Makes Cliques not so shitty against aggro as you can trade her with a goyf/kotr. Also swinging with a goyf equipped with Collar is nasty. They can't double block with goyf + another creature and if they let goyf through, you are way ahead in the damage race. All around, its a great card for a deck that can't play STP. Good thinking over here.
Trinket -> EE also gives you outs to resolved stuff you can't other wise deal with and is just very versatile. Top is self explanatory, nice to see the option to go for extra gas vs control.
In my meta there's a lot of CB.deck, landstill and some TES.
How does the chikenbok version do against the deck i've mentionned? Have tested the MU?:smile:
@ Chikenbok
Agreed on the fact that NLT doesn't want CB, ever. NLT plays the tempo role instead of control role and Countertop needs a good amount of 3-drops to abuse the combo (at least 5), which on its own makes it a different deck to play.
It's one or the other, neither will ever play or feel the same. NLT is just more straightforward and tempo based (like UGW Tempo, another great deck), while countertop decks want to control the game with long term CA through CB/Top. The main problem I find with adding red in Countertop (4c Countertop) is the mana base.
Im going to sleeve up NLT, mostly because it's more agressive and because it plays Wastelands with a strong mana base...which is one reason why I prefer this over Team America as well. It's also easier to play compared to Countertop, just like any agressive build like Zoo, Goblins and Merfolk.
I personally would call this deck 'UGR Tempo' instead of NLT. Can't wait to sleeve it up and play with it for a long time to come :D
Thanks for understanding. Thresh simply cannot support the flips of a counterbalance deck and we can't rework the whole curve to handle cards that people are now playing just to play around a cblock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deady
Deady, I hope you like the build, its been playing incredibly well in my testing for the last few days and, after cutting the 21st land the consistancy with an early game trinket mage in to top followed by a jace bouncing trinket mage to fetch up collar is simply devestating in the mid game. Against aggro just hold your bolts for an easy out and make sure to save them brainstorms for when you need them.
The best matchups are the thresh vs thresh matches as it usually comes down to who taps out first and lets the opponent start winning the stifle race - its always funny seeing, "Crack a catacombs", "crack a tarn in response", "crack a misty in response", "crack a delta in response".... stifle race.
It's possibly the most skill intensive deck I've played to this date and will punish any bad move but with a good pilot it is simply unreal.
I'm playing the chickenbok list with -1 fire/ice + 1 fetch. I like having the 16th blue land for fewer mulligans. Just a personal preference. Anyway I didn't get enough testing today to get a good enough sample. However, trinket Mage is just boss in this deck. I was spiffed at not being able to play daze, but this deck can't play it because you want to hit 4 lands asap. I had the most hilarious game today against show and tell/no. Grim lavamancer apparently eats mana dudes very well. I shut off eldrazi with my lavamancer-collar combo. Should have seen my Friends face when he realized a 15/15 monster dies to my combo. Hilarious!
Btw disliked the fire/ice in testing. A 2 mana shock that pitches to force is not good enough for my tastes. Will cut the last 2 fire/ice for the 4th lavamancer and another clique. The deck's threat density is too low. Plus the first lavamancer will always get forced/ killed and I always want to see both lavamancer and clique. I hate sitting there with lots of answers but without a threat to pressure the opponent.
The reason I keep fire // ice in the deck is to deal with early game bullshit that I don't want my opponent having on the board (Heirarch, Cursecatcher, nacatl, lackey, etc.) However, against any non aggro turn 1 playing deck they come right out for the 4th lavamancer. I might cut down to 2 Fire // Ice to throw in another clique but the combo of being able to ping for 2, then shoot for 2 is still working too well for me to make the decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
@Chinese - Great work making T8
BTW I'm the guy who was playing Counterbalance that you drew with at DC. I'm giving this deck a shot since I've been playing Counterbalance for months.
omg, awesome. Gogo, chinEsEgirl!
edit: ouch :(. I think your chances of winning would have been better without playing Jace. Anyway, 3rd place is still impresive, congrats
Collar + Lavamancer is real deal. GO!
Chinese - I knew ya had it in you.
I couldn't make the event sadly but I'm glad you're rocking it out like NLT ought to.
Congratulations on the Top 8, Eric.
Loving the changes to the deck.
Eric, Looking at your list I see we convinced you to get rid of the third ven clique eh?
Just another congrats man, represent.
Huge grats! Btw how was fire/ice during the tournament? I'm thinking about cutting them because they are not as useful without daze where you use it as a rishadan port. Would you have preferred a 3rd clique, the 4th lavamancer and the 21st land? I love this deck, it's tempo and has enough gas to slug it out lategame, lovely!
Btw flooded grove? Typo?