[Deck] UWb Esperblade

That's exactly what I was thinking - I can't think of a circumstance where I would go for Batterskull before Jitte (especially where I have ground presence). And if I am fetching a second weapon, I would much prefer a Sword rather than the Skull. Maybe Jitte/SoFaI with Skull in the board would be best.

SoBaM - despite the drawback of milling the opponent, the extra wolf body is fantastic plus the pro green lets me slide past Maverick and RUG decks.

However, the SoFaI is like an almost autowin vs the UR and RUG decks.

Also, I am quite happy with the Darkblast in the side, it is quite good against the many x/1 and x/2 creatures in the format atm. The Perish helps against Maverick too.

Another point is that I feel like Vindicate should be mainboard material due to its flexibility. But it just doesn't fit into the deck's strategy so it sits in the side atm as an enchantment/artifact/extra creature removal.

Edit: Just gave the deck one or two test runs. Hanni, replacing the Delver with Tidesculler is indeed a good call, it won me two games against Thopters. Maindeck SoFaI and Jitte were awesome.

I've been playing this for a time and made A LOT of changes and playtesting... And ended up with this list... If you guys have ANY question about the cards choises I would be happy to explain why exactly are 4 ponder instead of 3 or 2... why there are no spell snares and dazes... and why there are no SoFnF... why 22 lands... why no wasteland... Still... only if you ask :laugh:

Here is my list...

4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of Saint Traft

4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Inquistion of Kozilek (consider 2 sieze, 2 IofK... both are very acceptable choises, mainly cause of SCM and the tempo metagame. )
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
2 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats

3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Scrubland

2 Mishra's Factory
1 Moorland Haunt

2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp

What you guys think? o.o

I saw now that my list has many similarities with orgy's list...

There're some conclusions that I would like to share...

Dark Confidant never kills you... You realy don't need to worry about it... And you will never have 2 in the board neither.... that's because the opponent spend everything he has on DC... People knows what happens when you draw 2 cards a turn... they lose... So the first Bob Always Die... I mean, always.

You could only... and only... die for DC in a burn/ur burn match... still... it can be your path to victory on this matches too... specialy when your opponent uses goblin guide, that allows you to see how much you will take before blocking :laugh:....

In my build I use 8 top manipulations... as a way to improve bob's ability, having more blue cards, have more cantrip effects (less cards in deck), having more chance of getting the mana I want....and not drawing to much bob.

I realy like Bitterblossom... And used 2 for a long time... But I often found myself wanting to play any another card from my hand... It is realy good when it works but, it takes to damn long to work... Cast Bitterblossom... go... get hited in my face from a angry tarmogoyf/mangust/reliquary/jitte holder/sword holder.... Then is my turn.. o/... get one token... What?! killed EOT? I hate this game!...

Why You must play Geist over Vendillion....How can you pay 3 precious mana (intensive ones) to get a boltable creature that cannot block or hit more then a goyf if needed?

Playtesting the deck very much.... I realized that the deck want me to play stuff... is not a tempo deck, but it somehow runs that way... you just can't afford say "go" with 3 lands untaped... (IN MY BUILD)

3 mana = Knight of Reliquary/Magus of The Moon/Swords of FnF.... 2 mana= Goyf/Confidant

Is your card 3 mana? Yes.
It hits more then 7? No
It in untargetable? No
It will die from bolt?! Yes
It draws 2 cards a turn for you? No?!
OMG... Is at least 3 "easy" mana? No... is 1UU... >.>... And is legendary... <o> ... Stop playing it!

If you want to run vendillion... it's ok!...but you will also run 4 Spellstutter, 2 mutavault, 1 jitte, 3 Spell Snare, 1 Riptide Lab...

Then is OK!. :smile:

About playing stuff over Not tapping:

I rather do: First turn Sieze/IoK... 2nd turn = Bob/Stoneforger. Depending or my opponent hand... (that you already knows)

Having 4 FoW MD is necessary for this "tempo-control plan" as you cannot afford to play daze and be wasted/stifled in the same game (would be great if you could, but you can't)...lose 2 land drops would ruin everything...

Still... having 4 bob works very well for me... strangely, that part because of batterskull.... When you have 4 bobs and 4 stoneforgers...:confused:

That's because the felling (for the opponent) of playing bob or stoneforger fetching batterskull is the same (That creature must die right now, or I will lose to it)

You most of the times will have 3 cards of this combination (bob/forgers) + 1 disrupt or 1 FoW... So you can easily chose who (bob or forger) will die depending on your gameplan...

I mostly will use IofK taking a removal, then cast bob... (he will be removed, somehow the opponent will kill him).... and then cast stoneforger getting batterskull (with a fow for backup)

You can also do pretty much the opposite... casting stoneforger, fetching for Jitte... knowing that you have 2 bobs and 1 mishra's in your hand.

Using 21 lands can be risky... That's why I run 22.... but using 4 bob is not... realy doesn't matter how many high cost cards do you have in your deck... bob will always die in 2 turns max... if he doesn't... you will win before he kills you... trust me.

If you stop to think about it:

22 cards in your deck are lands... more 30 are cards with 1-2CMC... What's the odds of revealing jace, draw a land...then reveal fow? Having 4 ponders, 4 brainstorms?.. Impossible... At worst, You can always regain some life from jitte. And everybody knows that Jace+Confidant = 3 cards a turn with no lifeloss.

I aprove the use of 3 snapcasters instead of 4... but I rather do 4 snapcasters then 5-6 removals/disrupt... The snapcaster will pretty much always be a "gatekepper of plowshares", eventualy only beeing a "one more inquistion"... But he can be both... and he is a professional jitte holder. :laugh:

Using 4 Inquistions instead of 2 and 2... is another reflex of the agressive "using bolt" tempo metagame, snapcaster ability and 4 ponders/4 brainstorms/4 bobs in the deck... But I will probabily change my mind (again) and use 2 siezes and 2 IofK.

Using basics maybe is not such a good idea...maybe I'm just tired of beeing wasted by RUG (was a little to much for me). But I can say with total confidance that fetching a Island in the first turn almost solves the problem of wastelands... But that's realy horrible when you have a IofK in your hand :cry:

...

And sorry for my English ^^... I'm still learning.

I think there are two approaches for this deck to take. One approach being more aggro, the other being more control. I think both are viable.

Here's my take on the more aggro-oriented UWb version:

U/W/b Esperblade (aka Hannifish 2012)

// Lands (20)
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [R] Tundra
2 [R] Underground Sea
2 [R] Scrubland
1 [UNH] Island
1 [UNH] Plains
1 [UNH] Swamp
1 [ISD] Moorland Haunt

// Creatures (16)
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage

// Spells (24)
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
1 [CFX] Path to Exile
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [NPH] Batterskull

// Sideboard (15)
SB: 1 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 1 [SOK] Manriki-Gusari
SB: 1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 1 [MBS] Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 2 [TE] Perish
SB: 2 [AP] Vindicate
SB: 2 [TE] Disenchant
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate

I still think Mother of Runes is absolutely amazing for this deck. Protecting SFM and Dark Confidant is still at an all-time premium, and giving evasion to establish Jitte counters isn't bad either.

My other list, going the more controlling side, is actually U/W, so I won't post it in this thread unless asked. It drops Mom and Confidant for Clique and Planeswalker's, and drops discard for Counterspells, basically.

Hanni... I like the aproach.

In your build, I think cutting bob, for 2 jaces/2 cliques and adding one mishra/mutavault would be better.

I know the mother are good for protecting bob, but also think she might be of greater value for holding the opponent (with the stall trick) then having jaces for a long game plan... but never tested it

If you chose not run jaces of elspeths... And going aggro....you could be much more aggro...

You must use wastelands.

You could use stifles

You should use dazes over pierce/snare that are cards that like to play control.

You maybe should consider using Delvers?

Maybe even check the esper tempo thread? o.o

I mean... if we are going aggro... so... lets go aggro... right?

If we plan to mid-range... we need a strong late-game plan...something like 2 jace + 2 vindicate maybe?

I like your thought... maybe just a need more focus?.

Or i'm completely mistaken and didn't saw your plan? :laugh:

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Hanni... I like the aproach.

In your build, I think cutting bob, for 2 jaces/2 cliques and adding one mishra/mutavault would be better.

I know the mother are good for protecting bob, but also think she might be of greater value for holding the opponent (with the stall trick) then having jaces for a long game plan... but never tested it

If you chose not run jaces of elspeths... And going aggro....you could be much more aggro...

You must use wastelands.

You could use stifles

You should use dazes over pierce/snare that are cards that like to play control.

You maybe should consider using Delvers?

Maybe even check the esper tempo thread? o.o

I mean... if we are going aggro... so... lets go aggro... right?

If we plan to mid-range... we need a strong late-game plan...something like 2 jace + 2 vindicate maybe?

I like your thought... maybe just a need more focus?.

Or i'm completely mistaken and didn't saw your plan?

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Jace TMS isn't meant for my build. I only run 20 lands and only 4 Brainstorm's as cantrips, and I'm pretty heavily invested in nonbasic lands since I use all 3 colors frequently. Hitting 2UU for Jace wouldn't be consistent, and even less so against a deck like RUG Tempo. Jace is a great card, but my deck doesn't really need his abilities. Everything he can do for me is already pretty much covered by everything else; i.e I don't need the bounce, don't need the extra draw, and don't need an alt win condition. Jace doesn't carry a Jitte, but Confidant does, Mom doesn't protect Jace, but it does protect Confidant, etc.

Mother of Runes has many great uses, she need not be only used for one of them.

What do you mean by more aggro? I'm pretty content with my aggro package right now. I suppose arguments could be made for Geist or Clique, but I don't feel like I need them.

I don't understand why I need Wasteland's. This deck may not be heavy control like some other Control Blade lists, Landstill, or Countertop decks, but I still want a bunch of mana, more specifically 'colored mana'. SCM basically costs 3, Jitte costs 4 to cast and equip, etc. I'm running 3 colors, and supporting Wasteland in addition to that would require I cut business to fit them, not lands. What matches would Wasteland improve, vs how many times will drawing Wasteland's manascrew me?

If I wanted to play a Stifle/Waste deck, I wouldn't be running a slow controllish aggro package, I'd be running Delver's, Tombstalker's, Nimble's, Goyf's, and guys like that.

I really wish I could run Daze, and I did back when Misstep was around. My problem with Daze now is that it has fairly bad synergy with Snapcaster Mage, who benefits alot more from Spell Pierce. It pushes the deck into more of a controllish nature, and less aggressive, but that's not so bad. Bouncing a land back isn't that big a deal, but it could be the difference between casting and equipping Jitte a full turn sooner, I suppose. I may still revert back to Daze, but for now, I think Pierce/Snare offer better synergy with SCM.

*** Basically, I may revert back to Daze after I do more playtesting, but for now, I'm trying the 3/3 split of Pierce/Snare***

Delver's don't fit my gameplan. I'm not an aggressive beatdown deck. I'm basically a control deck that utilizes creatures as control spells, getting a dual purpose from them. It's the same philosophy as 2006 Hannifish, except now the creatures are a million times better. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm still an aggro/control deck, and I still plan on beating down with creatures, but Delver is a vanilla 3/2 flier... and that's not what my deck wants.

Esper Tempo is the exact opposite of my gameplan. Esper Tempo would be the deck that runs Stifle/Waste and Delver. Except, I think Esper Tempo is one of the worst color combinations for a tempo deck. I prefer U/B and U/B/r (Grixis) Tempo the most, for those shells. But this is a different deck.

A strong mid-late game plan is card advantage courtesy of Confidant/SFM/SCM. A strong mid-late game plan is control courtesy of Jitte, Batterskull, countermagic, discard, and removal. I already have a strong mid-late without Jace and Vindicate. Although I do run Vindicate in my sideboard.

I feel the deck is pretty focused, actually. What looks unfocused? I realize I'm running a 3/3 split on the countermagic, and a 2/1 split on the discard, but that doesn't really seem unfocused if you ask me... and the 4/1 split on the removal is because I wanted 5 Plow effects. Actually, I wanted 6 Plow effects, but I couldn't find room for the 6th.

Ok I get it...

Is a control deck that uses creatures as tools for "control", what you meant by aggro was "winning with creatures"... That's complety diferent.

When you said you had a aggro oriented deck... I thought... so play the "aggresive tempo plan".

20 is not a correct land count from what you're planning. If you are interested in using fewer lands as a "have more cards" concept, then you should run 22-23... specialy if you are not running ponders...

And 4 would be Wastelands.

Why wasteland is necessary for your deck? There is actualy a lot of reasons... But what is realy important for you in wasteland is the "multirole" way you said your deck plays.

Wastelands is not just a tempo card, It can be used to remove important lands to disrupt the opponent game plan, that is even more true if you have access to the hand (with sieze/IofK)

Wastelands has a great power not only disrupting opponent game plans but also protecting yours... Sometimes the opponent would like to waste your Underground Sea, but he just cannot, now that you have your own wasteland, if he does that, he will lose 2 lands... or maybe not, but the decision will be yours...

STM, SCM, Bob, uses 1 nom colored mana in theyr costs, you should be glad of it ^^.

What I'm trying to say is "If your deck has a great potential of playing both control or more aggro plan, depending on your opponent plays, wasteland would help you to control this aspect... To limit your opponent speed, disrupt his plays along with a more control plan... or removing key lands, or opponent's waste if tapped protecting your own manabase.

You don't need to run wastelands... but... if you choose to not run wastelands... that's one more reason to run jace/elspeth... If you are NOT running high costed very powerfull cards (and your opponent SURE IS) then you would probabily like to trade theyr forth land for yours forth land. Get it?

What I realy think is unfocused is that you are using HEAVY control cards in a gameplan cards mixed in a way that you don't take the maximum potential from your own cards.

Like --- Waste, Daze, Delver, Stifle, 19-20 Lands = Very fast agressive deck... You don't need to run ALL this cards to have a agressive deck, but using all then together would maximize value.

Other Way --- Pierce, Snare, Jace, Moorland Haunt, Mother of runes, 4th caster, more removals also work very well together.

But if you chose to NOT go Control Way... and NOT go Real Agressive way... you are way behind of these two... You just can't be trully powerfull while not beeing truly focused.

I realy like the idea of having a deck that can be realy agressive or realy controlish depending on the match... but for this, you need some cards that will give you this versatility of plans... And wasteland is the best one.

If exists a card that helps you to have a mid-range shiftable strategy deck... is Wasteland.

And they will not be a problem if you don't run Hymn to Tourach or Vendillion (please don't run it)

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I'll finish this later.

Just because I'm playing a "control deck with aggro," doesn't mean I need a high land count. There seems to be alot of misconceptions concerning wordings. My deck runs a very low cc count, which is not only a design constraint put into place by Dark Confidant, but also by Snapcaster Mage. Even before Snapcaster, the general shell has always been this way. The deck functions off of 2-3 lands, and while it prefers to have 3-4, landfloods are just as bad as landscrews.

I can see justification for running Wasteland as a control tool, but I cannot think of many situations where I would rather have Wasteland than one of the other business spells that I'm already running.

While my creatures may have 1 colorless in their cost, and my equipments cost colorless, the fact is that I want access to all 3 colors as early in the game as possible. Wasteland might pay for the colorless on Confidant, but if I fetch a Tundra because I have SFM and a Pierce/Snare/Brainstorm in hand, I'm not going to be able to cast Confidant, for example.

My build doesn't need Jace TMS. People seem to just cram him into everything, just like they do with Delver and Snapcaster, without really evaluating the deck and determing what it needs. Everything that Jace can do for this deck, my creature base does better, without needing 2UU. I'm not saying that Jace TMS would be useless in here, because that's far from the truth, but I'm saying he's unecessary. Adding more top heavy spells like Jace has bad synergy with Dark Confidant, and even Snapcaster Mage.

I still don't get what you mean by focused. The deck is focused. It's an aggro/control deck that plays a slow defensive control game with tons of card advantage and disruption, that beats with grizzly bears + equipment. It's the same gameplan as my 2006 UWb Fish deck, except with better 2012 spells. Why do I need Jace to be a good control deck? Why do I need Stifle/Waste to be a good aggro deck? This gameplan is older than both of those strategies, and is just as effective now as it was then, if not more-so.

The deck has plenty of game against control decks, plenty of game against combo, and plenty of game against aggro. I'm not sure how I'm unfocused. The deck has solid matchups all the way across the board, with no "horrible" matchups. What matchups are going to improve by running Jace and/or Wasteland, and what matchups are going to get worse by running Jace and/or Wasteland?

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On an unrelated note, I'm probably going to cut 3 Spell Pierce from the maindeck for 3 Daze, despite having worse synergy with Snapcaster. The lack of Daze was very noticeable in playtesting, and I definitely want them back in the deck. I'll find a way to fit the Spell Pierce's into the sideboard or something. Oh, and I'm probably gonna cut the maindeck Path for SoFI or SoFF maindeck, and run 2 Path's in the sideboard.

Daze in a nice step in aggro direction... Now jaces are not so good. And now Wasteland is even better.

Still... You don't need a high land count... 22 is a "few lands control" land count. But 20 lands is very wrong. You could explain run 21 if you also run 2-3 ponders.

If you chose to run 22 lands, use 4 snapcasters is ok.

If you chose to run 21 without ponders or divining top (I rather ponders, cause of Fow)... Would be better run 3 snapcasters.

If you chose to run 20 lands. Run 21+ anyways. :laugh: Sorry... please, add more lands.

I truly understand how you think as I have a strong felling of using cards that I want too, instead of using what I realy should... But i'm already working on that.

One realy good way of thinking is "everybody is playing this card"... It's not possible that I'm the only good magic player... So, I must be mistaken.

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Still... You don't need a high land count... 22 is a "few lands control" land count. But 20 lands is very wrong. You could explain run 21 if you also run 2-3 ponders.

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Why is 20 lands wrong? Because I'm calling my deck a "control" deck? Have you even bothered playtesting the list to know that 20 lands is wrong? Cause it's not. I used to run 17 lands in my old UWb Fish deck, albeit with 4 Serum Visions, with the exact same mana curve, and it worked just fine. -4 Visions, +3 land is a pretty big upgrade to the land count for a deck that curves out at 2-3.

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I truly understand how you think as I have a strong felling of using cards that I want too, instead of using what I realy should... But i'm already working on that.

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Except I have about 4 years of playing UWb Fish to know how the deck works. Regardless of new and better cards seeing print, the fundamentals of the deck are exactly the same. I'm not making a case against Jace and Wasteland because I have strong feelings, I'm making a case against them because they are not what the deck wants/needs.

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One realy good way of thinking is "everybody is playing this card"... It's not possible that I'm the only good magic player... So, I must be mistaken.

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Because everybody IS jamming Delver's into non-aggressive decks, jamming Snapcaster's into hyper-agressive decks, and fitting Jace into nearly every blue deck without questioning it. I'm not some scrub who's never played with Jace before. I have many different control decks that I play that run Jace, I know how good the guy is. I also know that he's not meant for my build of UWb Esperblade.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind that my build is not the only good and/or viable build of Esperblade. There's plenty of room to take the deck in directions either further down the control spectrum, or further up the aggressive spectrum.

I'm also very partial to my build because it's almost a direct port of a deck I spent years tuning to perfection (UWb Fish), with some amazing new upgrades (SFM/SCM).

By the way... Adding wasteland would pretty much only improve every match... And only very eventualy would screw you... If you are afraid of that, 2-3 wasteland is a "secure" add to the deck, that would only improve the already good matches, while having a very strong "random" moment power, geting rid of burnwillow, maze, wasteland.

Jace would improve all heavy control matches, again 1-2 is the "secure add" as it can be easily shuffled back or pinched to force of will if unecessary.

You saw my list?

I'm done having this back and forth discussion, sorry. In the right shell, I'm sure Wasteland and Jace are great adds. In my shell, they aren't. No one build of "Stoneblade" is ever going to be "the best" because it's too customizable, and they each have stronger and weaker matchups against different decks, which is variable to the metagame. Let's just agree to disagree on this one.

I never played a UWb Fish before, but I had played eva green, then bug, then blade, then esperblade. So I'm very familiar with the cards of the list.

Anyways...Sorry If I ofended you as I pointed inexperience of your part. If you do realy knows 20 is the absolutily correct land count for this build. Then I'm misstaken.

MO is 21 lands without jace could be correct. That's because (as you said) the deck needs mana for equipments and snapcaster mage. Isn't a zoo that plays easily with 2 lands.

You could run 21 lands beeing 3 wastelands.

@Spell Pierce vs Daze
I agree with Hanni re his Spell Pierce v Daze assessment – Daze is just too good in this deck to cut for Pierce. Pierce is good, but not as good as Daze. I see Pierce as a sideboard card as we dont have MD space.

@Snapcaster
I don't see why we run Snapcaster in this deck over Tidehollow Sculler.

Mother of Rune is in this deck to protect our grizzlies which typically have abilities which benefit us as long they remain in play. For example, Dark Confidant, other Moms and SFM. Snapcaster becomes expendable once it you use it to 'flash back' another card. Tidehollow allows you to gain advantage as long as it remains in play. We want to maximise the number of stay in play and gain advantage creatures in this deck. The point of this deck is for grizzlies to remain in play so that we can leverage that advantage.

@Geist of St Traft
Awesome in this deck, you should try it out. It works as a fantastic finisher and as a great sandbag against board wipes (which this deck is weak to).

@Wasteland
I tried running a 4-of but it's a bit too much, especially when you open into hands with two lands: 1 Wasteland and 1 coloured. I feel that 3 should be the right number.

Wastelands have always been good as a catch-all for me. It also helps keep the opponent in the early-mid game which is where we want to be. We don't need too many land drops (we can survive on 2-3 land).

Basics (especially basic plains) have been a bit miserable for me. The coloured requirements of this deck are quite strenuous and you definitely should have duals in its place instead. I would still retain 1 Island for Path to Exile.

19 has been the right mix for me (would be 18+2 Ponders but Geists at 3cc make mana requirements harder) with Ponder as a lone cantrip. There is no need for additional mana as I am not hardcasting Batterskull. Jitte is not too bad re equipping. My curve essentially ends at 3 with a mix of free/cheap spells. I also do not run Snapcaster.

@Jace 2.0
Great card but inappropriate for this deck. Needs at least 22 lands to run him and in that case, we would be cutting into business. Wastelands with Jace is a bad idea due to colour requirements, we are not BUG.

@sideboard
Darkblast – awesome vs Mav (reusable removal against manadorks) and no need to waste Swords.
Meddling Mage and Spell Pierce – been good so far vs combo/random stuff
Surgical Extraction – solid choice
Bitterblossom – good vs control, haven't quite tested it yet but seems promising
Perish – insane vs Mav and aggro though I am considering switching to Submerge. I like the flexibility of Perish against NO decks though
Vindicate – great catchall, but may be switched to Disenchant later. I just like Vindicate as 2x Path to Exile and 2x Disenchant in 2 slots, which saves on sideboard space.
Batterskull – against tribal, though I don't know why its really here

My list right now is:
(18)
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Geist of Saint Traft

(2)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

(21)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ponder

(19)
3-4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1-2 Scrubland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Wasteland

Sideboard

1 Darkblast
2 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Meddling Mage
2 Perish
2 Bitterblossom
2 Vindicate
1 Batterskull

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You could run 21 lands beeing 3 wastelands.

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20 lands with 19 colored sources is safer than 21 with 17 colored sources though. But hey, maybe I'll playtest with some Wasteland's later just for the hell of it.

Hanni, keep in mind that Maze of Ith or Grove of the Burnwillows really hurt a Stoneforge based deck in the long run (ask every UWx Stoneblade player), thus some Wastelands are, unfortunately, a necessary evil.

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I don't see why we run Snapcaster in this deck over Tidehollow Sculler.

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That's a good question, actually. I see pros and cons to both cards.

In the case of SCM, with pinpoint discard, you can basically gain Tidehollow's effect except the card is discarded permanently regardless if SCM dies. The difference is that SCM is more versatile than just a discard effect... it can recast Brainstorm, recast Swords to Plowshares, and recast Spell Snare (primarily). I've even had games where I hit 7 mana and flashback'd Force of Will. What I like the most is the fact that even if it dies, I still got value out of it. It's similar to SFM in that respect.

Tidehollow Sculler, on the other hand, is really strong too. Turn 1 Mom, turn 2 Sculler with Daze/Force backup disrupts the opponent like a motherfucker. Follow that up with some more countermagic, discard, Confidant, or SFM, and it's really hard to lose most games.

So at this point, I don't know. I'd definitely like to test them both extensively before I weigh my opinions on which one is better. At this point though, I'd like to continue testing with SCM first.

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@Geist of St Traft
Awesome in this deck, you should try it out. It works as a fantastic finisher and as a great sandbag against board wipes (which this deck is weak to).

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To me, Geist is just a beater. The hexproof is nice, but I'm already built around protecting my guys. Without an equip or Mother, he's not swinging into blockers without dying, just the same as any of my other grizzlies. He's definitely a nicer clock on a clean board, but he's pretty lousy defensively. In most cases, I'd rather run Vendilion Clique, I think.

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Basics (especially basic plains) have been a bit miserable for me. The coloured requirements of this deck are quite strenuous and you definitely should have duals in its place instead. I would still retain 1 Island for Path to Exile.

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I run a 1/1/1 split of the basics, which have been working just fine for me. Then again, I'm also running 19 colored sources and only 1 colorless land, so that may be why.

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Hanni, keep in mind that Maze of Ith or Grove of the Burnwillows really hurt a Stoneforge based deck in the long run (ask every UWx Stoneblade player), thus some Wastelands are, unfortunately, a necessary evil.

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Maze of Ith is not common enough to warrant maindeck Wasteland on their own, and I run 2 Pithing Needle and 2 Vindicate in the board that can answer them. Maze of Ith does shut down an equipment spell, but it doesn't stop my other guys from attacking, and it's pretty feasible to drop a Skull and a Jitte in the same game.

I'm not trying to say that Wasteland is bad in Stoneblade decks. I just don't think they fit my specific build of this deck, and I don't think they are a necessary evil either.

Mother of Runes can circumvent Grove to some degree, and I've cut the 1-of Path for a SoFI anyway.

Maybe I'll try to fit in 2 Wasteland's or something for testing purposes. I don't want to focus on a mana denial plan, but 2 should be plenty to use as utility.

If I end up eating my own words and Wasteland turns out to be better than I thought (my testing with them comes from my prior experience with UWb Fish, and not newage Esperblade, as I haven't tested them in my build yet), then I'll man up and admit my mistake.

I do know for a fact that Jace isn't mean for my build, though. I stand adamant about that.

Since everyone keeps suggesting Wasteland, I'll go ahead and playtest the following:

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
3 [R] Tundra
2 [R] Underground Sea
2 [R] Scrubland
1 [UNH] Island
1 [UNH] Plains
1 [ISD] Moorland Haunt
3 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage

// Spells
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
3 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [NPH] Batterskull

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 1 [MBS] Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 1 [SOK] Manriki-Gusari
SB: 2 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 2 [TE] Perish
SB: 2 [AP] Vindicate
SB: 1 [TE] Disenchant
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate

I'm thinking 4 colorless sources on 20 lands with my color requirements is going to be really bad. I really don't want to add another land, and the only spell I'd consider cutting from the maindeck would be the SoFI, but I may end up doing that if the manabase falls apart on me. I'm doubtful that this is going to be better than a list with more colored sources, but who knows. Or I could just cut a Wasteland for another Scrubland, which is what I'll probably end up doing instead.

EDIT: Eh, gonna try the 21 land route I guess, cutting the maindeck SoFI for the Scrubland. Let's see how this does after a few dozen games on MWS. Hopefully my opponent's are all packing 4 Wasteland so I can really test out the durability of the manabase.

If you don't want to add another land you could easily trade one SCM and the 21th land for 2 ponders... Would help improve consistence as a whole, while having sinergy with bob, helping you to shuffle away the possible flood that seens so bad in this archetype.

I'm saying that cause I'm used to see decks using 3-4 ponders and 18-19 lands. At worst is a blue card that realy helps combined with brainstorm and can be pinched by fow. A very good topdeck also.

I used to run 8 cantrips in the deck for a long time. I'm just not so sure that I want to run more than 4 Brainstorm anymore.

My thing with the cantrips is that I don't want to be cantripping too much early unless I have to, cause I want to be dropping guys early and tapping out (main reason I added Dazes back in). By the time I have free mana to start cantripping, I don't need the dig as much. The massive amounts of card advantage replace that function, IMO. Don't get me wrong, the extra cantrips are still really good, but I haven't been in too many positions where I would have wanted Ponder.

As far as mitigating lifeloss with Confidant goes, I've been doing just fine with the lifegain from Batterskull and Jitte to not need the extra manipulation.

I'll continue to test this Wasteland build. I've only logged one game on MWS so far, against Mono White Stax, and I went 2-1. That's a pretty damn manabase hateful deck right there, and I held my own pretty well with the 21 land list I posted above. I'll keep trying it out. Like I said, back in the day when I ran UWb Fish, Wasteland wasn't that good in this deck. Times have changed, and I can be stubborn sometimes. As long as the manabase runs fine and I don't run into serious colorscrew issues alot, I'll stick to the 21 land manabase with 3 Wasteland's. I do like that Wasteland's make my Daze's stronger for longer, so who knows.