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@ Subway-Guy: I would say Sleight of Hand is better in the deck because Remand won't get you a second land, or search better for that third. I'll more often keep one land hands that are amazing otherwise if they've got a couple cantrip effects in them, and Remand lowers the chance of that. Even in a two land hand I'd rather see Sleight than Remand, simply because it's got a better chance of drawing me into that third.
I am going to a tourny tommorow is there any advice on what you think the field is like after the last big legacy event? Also I think Remand will go in board easly over disrupt as it might cost 1 more but is way more flexable.:tongue:! Any advice.
Again I've got to recommend against the Remand, but in this case because Disrupt is for the Dead Guy matchup, where Remand is a lot worse. Playing first you can stop any of their 1st turn plays with Disrupt, which you can't do with Remand. It can buy you a turn, and allow you to continue to stabilize after the initial onslaught. In the same situation Remand (if it isn't pitched on turn 1) will get you from turn 2 to turn 3, where you have to offer another counter, or they will use the same spell again.
Okay I get the point. The thing this deck lacks is losing on its opponents turn when you do NOT expect them to kill you. Also most of my ideas if not all try to make you live so you do not have to go of when you are not ready.
I've never had the problem of dying when I didn't know I would. You have to have some knowledge of the metagame, but especially if you're playing a smaller tournament, this isn't very hard to do. If you know that your opponent plays Berserk and you're at 10 with 5 points of damage on the board, you might want to try to go off. If you know they don't play any creature pump and no hasty creatures and you're staring down 2 Bears at 14 life, you're probably safe for another turn or 2. If they're playing Affinity and any of Berserk, Cranial Plating, or Disicple of the Vault would mean you are dead, you might want to go off.
I would say that Remand has functionality starting on turn 3, becausee before that you want to insure your land drops. At this point you should be able to reliably go off, and if you can't, Remand shouldn't buy you the kind of time it would have had you been able to play it on Turn 2, when I would much rather be cantripping.
By all means, test it out, if you like it, keep it and let us know exactly why it is better than Disrupt. I can see it as a board slot, but let us know what you would board it in for. What matchups does it make better, and by how much? Is it worth the loss in the Dead Guy slot? Those slots in the board are pretty open, so go ahead and test this out, but play some actual games with and without, let us know if you're keeping open the mana instead of doing other stuff, how many games you win and lose after casting it, etc.
I'm willing to listen to some actual results, but if you're just going hypothetically here, I'd say it's hypothetically a bad choice.
Most of the cases where this is true are answered by Snap. Berserk, Plating, Warchief, etc. I wouldn't worry about this too much. Also, more testing usually gives me a spider sense about whether I need to go off or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by subway-guy
@ MattH: I agree, Snap and Turnabout mean that you can usually pass the turn when you might otherwise not want to. Testing with the deck is the best way to get this sense.
@Remand: Rather than repeating everyone else, I will just contribute what I feel they left out:
You are not a deck of all instants, and therefore, you do like to tap out on your turn (fairly often).
Remand will also hurt your goldfishing significantly (remember, you do not have multiple Freezes to do fun things with), and since (as has been mentioned) Remand will not be online untill you are already capable of goldfishing a good deal of the time, meaning that you are giving up a good way to answer their turn 3 forward threats (win before they become an issue) for a poor one (Remand).
Also, in regard to "oops I win" situations, Remand is not a strong call. You should be going off if the odds of you fizzling are less than the odds of your opponent being able to kill you. It is true Remand can keep you alive for a turn, and thus give you better odds, but due to the fact that fairly often, they can recast the offending spell, the fact that it will often never see use (rarely would you have Remand and NOT have FoW, Snap, etc.), and the fact that it decreases the goldfishing speed of the deck, the harm it does more than outweighs the good.
Can we get a recent decklist from you, Ray? There hasn't been one in here since at least page 3. Or has nothing changed?
His decklist is updated at the front page. He's not a deadbeat.
-Slay
I wouldn't go so far as to say that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Slay
EDIT: Just joking, I love that guy. In a totally non-gay sort of way.
So awhile back Ray D3 and I had a big disagreement over Diminishing Returns and Ideas Unbound. I recently tested a version with Ideas Unbound and I have to say the results have been positive. I think it definitely makes going off when short on mana much easier. The fact that its better against Control decks is also a big plus. I still think that the power of Diminishing Returns is unmatched in Legacy, but perhaps its drawbacks do outweigh its immense power. Perhaps I was wrong indeed!
I really like this deck much better than Solidarity (maybe its a play-style issue). My main concerns about taking it into a major tournament are - Gro and Solidarity. Does anyone have any sideboarding strategies that would be helpful here? Solidarity is obviously bound to be a difficult matchup, but is there some way to rectify the situation?
YEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, someone else likes sorcery speek combo!!!!!!:smile:
Anyway, how about peek? I know it sounds horrible but it can allow you to judge when to go off. For instance if you peek at the end of solidarities turn, and you see they are ready to go off, you could turnabout them or something and go off on your turn. Just my two cents so it might be a horrible idea. Can someone post an updated list as well?
btw. That would be maindeck, and snap is awwwsome against meddling mage (screw that card:mad: )
I was a big proponent of including Peek in Solidarity. I'm not sure Peek fits in as well in Spring Tide. The first problem I have with it is that its so much worse than your 1 mana cantrips (Brainstorm and Serum Visions). The second thing is that Spring Tide is much more of a combo deck in the classic sense. While Solidarity always tries to find the right time to go off (thus the reason Peek is so useful in that deck) because it can go off at instant speed and control the stack to a large degree. Spring Tide in general wants to go off as soon as its advantageous to do so. The difference is that in Spring Tide you don't want to wait to react and you in general have the ability to go off sooner because your draw is simply better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo
I have tested the Spring Tide - Solidarity matchup over and over again. Of course, Solidarity has a huge advantage in game 1, since it can go off in response to Spring Tide's combo and it can use Spring Tide's High Tides, as well.
To win against Solidarity, Spring Tide can do one of the following:
- Meditate or Turnabout at the end of Solidarity's (third or fourth, otherwise it's too late) turn. A resolved Turnabout (targeting the Solidarity players lands) is pretty nice. Problem is, it won't always resolve due to FoW. A resolved Meditate is nice, too, since in this case you will go off with like 10 or 9 cards in hand... this advantage might be able to win against Solidarity, though it's still pretty hard.
- Be careful not to play too many High Tides...
- Game 2 and 3 you bring in Defense Grids. Nice. If you manage to resolve one, you might win.
- If you're really afraid of the Solidarity matchup, test Gaea's Blessing. I know it sounds lame and it's the one card everybody that doesn't understand Solidarity is boarding against that deck, but seriously, if you can go off during your third or fourth turn (which wold be Solidarity's second or third turn), which you can in most cases, Solidarity will have a really hard time trying to play around Blessing... Personally, I would not play Gaea's Blessing, but Sebastian Ofner, who I playtest with, plays four Defense Grids and one Blessing in the sideboard to deal with Solidarity.
I have tested ALOT Muddle the Mixture in Spring tide in place of Force. It was even. Some times Force was better at getting rid of there threat for free but Muddle has proven as a great tutor and prevents disruption with out card disadvantage. It depends on the meta game what you choose.
That's interesting, but I am unsure. Usually on turn two I am casting Merchant Scroll, I rarely leave the mana up. Also, Muddle can't stop Lackey, and can't stop anti-combo stuff like Pyrostatic Pillar.Quote:
Originally Posted by subway-guy
One thing you could try against Threshold is to sideboard into, like, Vedalken Shackles and Morphling. It might be hard to fit those in, though, what with Cunning Wish being a real sideboard hog.
Why would you counter a lackey you can race it easly? And that is what I meant your meta it is great against W/B Pi. and goblins as it tutors. I still use force because it is so good at killing hate with out mana. I like to use Spring Tide with 8 counters after board makes the opponents hate irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH
(this is just my perspective and testing:wink: .)
Also does any one think that for the W/B Pi. we side out a High Tide for a wish target to fight through there disruption.
thoughts
Siding out High Tide so that you can wish for it later doesn't seem like the best plan. I think you want to go off as soon as possible against Deadguy and that can't happen if High Tide is in the board. This deck can't generate mana without High Tide - how do you plan to win? I know that Solidarity sides in Disrupts from the board and that might be a good solution. Playing Disrupt against black decks can often be like a time walk that cantrips .Quote:
Originally Posted by subway-guy
You don't play Disrupt against black? *huh?*Quote:
Originally Posted by subway-guy
Against BW/Pox, Disrupt and Meditate are the key to winning, just hold out with Meditate until they have almost no cards in their hand and Meditate EOT, give them a turn, then proceed with 4+ cards in hand. It's a tough matchup for sure, but I've pulled out of it with Meditate into Ideas Unbound.
I would not recommend boarding out the High Tides, as they are the only way you can even generate any amount of mana to play draw spells.