Thalia Stompy

I am going to run this tomorrow, looking at running either a two of Leonin Arbiter or 2 Aven Mindcensor. I have yet to choose which one, what are your views on these two?

For the record I am using ChemicalBurns list from the podcast:

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Lands: (25)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Karakas
5 Plains
4 Wasteland

Creatures: (25)
2 Blade Splicer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Thought-Knot Seer

Non-Creature Spells: (10)
2 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond

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The planed cuts are -1 Revoker and -1 Displacer for the two added cards. I will also fuck with the side somewhat, but I do not think that is important.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

I am going to run this tomorrow, looking at running either a two of Leonin Arbiter or 2 Aven Mindcensor. I have yet to choose which one, what are your views on these two?

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I would rather play the Arbiters, as they are cheaper and take Thalia2's job of punishing Fetchlands, but even more i would just play ChemicalBurns list as I think it is quite good and close to a good configuration for mostly monocolor. I will play this on tomorrow:

Land (25)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
2x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
1x Horizon Canopy
2x Karakas
4x Plains
4x Wasteland

Instant (2)
2x Dismember

Creature (25)
2x Blade Splicer
4x Eldrazi Displacer
3x Lodestone Golem
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4x Thought-Knot Seer

Artifact (8)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond

Sideboard (15)
1x Batterskull
2x Containment Priest
1x Disenchant
2x Mindbreak Trap
1x Orzhov Pontiff
3x Rest in Peace
1x Spatial Contortion
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Winter Orb

Also I play just one Potiff as i only own one... Otherwise i think ChemicalBurns 2of is perfect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

The planed cuts are -1 Revoker and -1 Displacer for the two added cards. I will also fuck with the side somewhat, but I do not think that is important.

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Why not cut some Blade Splicers instead? The Displacer is such a great creature and the Revoker has a good mana cost to often be played on T1.

Playing revoker only matters at your LGS and in games 2 and 3. Playing Revoker turn one game one is a terrible play, generally speaking. Blade Splicer runs away with the game if there is a Blade Splicer out with an active Displacer.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

@Phyrexian Revoker: I have found this guy isn't that bad, even T1 (sure its better too have Chalice/Thalia T1^^), for me it is like playing with "Cabal Therapy" (and i have a lot of experience with this card in builds without Probe!) - sure it is much better if you are at your LGS and are familiar with Players/Meta but if i have no T1 play other than Revoker i may throw him on the battlefield for the common Top or Vial (Blind Therapy also goes: Brainstorm and it hits often), basically Top and Vial are common cards (Miracle/DnT) and you don't want to see them (especially before you can use Chalice). If you miss you still have a 2/1 Turn 1 for beats, since this deck is made for aggressive beatdown afterall. What i liked so far at Revoker, he close the gap between Eldrazi and Human as a colorless Turn 1/2 Mana solution if you can't use the Mana for Chalice/Jitte etc. so with 3 Revoker, 2 Jitte and 4 Chalice you have always something to do with colorless-stompy-mana and if you see what deck your opponent plays, you will also find some targets for revoker even if it isn't crucial.

Conclusion: As always it depends to your hand and you have more than enough other T1 plays with this deck, but Revoker isn't so bad and open with him should be better than wasting a turn, doing nothing in most cases.

@Blade Splicer: If you play him, 3 is a good number. As i wrote i placed 2nd at my first tournament with this deck and i played 2 Splicer+3 Golem. I realised that Splicer is better than Golem (unless you face Combo), 2W Mana is perfect, 2 Bodies is fine (removal/attack/block), a colorless 3/3 with first strike matters against most legacy creatures and the combo with displacer is threatening against most creature based decks. Blade Splicer is also very good vs BGx Decks that are naturally good vs Stompy Shells (like Eldrazi)

Conclusion: If you need a tool vs "fair" decks, Blade Splicer is a good one and i would play 3 Splicer + 3 Golem if this is the preferred deck version. But Splicer without Lodestone will have to fight for his spot, so i think he is only good if you play also Lodestone Golem which (at least for me) means: No Smasher

Note: Sadly for me Lodestone Golem wasn't so good (3 toughness...) vs most creature based decks. It seems the meta has learned (thanks to eldrazi) to deal with 5/5 creatures and afterall Golem is easier to kill. So i switched Golem at most games (vs non Combo/Control) with other Sideboard Cards (like Palace Jailer etc.)

I think i finally developed a "Mono White" Version based on Eldrazi and Humans that is save enough to play in unknown meta games and nearly a streamlined stock list without "brew" ideas. I will post the list the next days to put the choices up for discussion.

Dice, I have trimmed the Golem package, Petals and Cities for +2 Plains, +3 Smasher +2 Sanctum Prelate +1 Displacer +3 Diamond. Side remains the same.

I could see a Jailer over the 4th Displacer or the fourth Revoker, though I will need to test further. Though everyone's results with it looks promising.

Displacer looks mediocre at first but it continues to over perform for me and is the card I want most in fair matchups as a mana sink. However, versions without Splicer / Kavu / main deck SFM do make it look a little more lacklustre and it as 3-of seems reasonable.

Revoker I think is important as additional t1 plays (especially off Tomb), especially as a way to cripple the BUG decks from accelerating with DRS. I have thought about Arbiter though, and I do think trimming Revoker for some is not a bad plan, since they fill the same slot on the curve.

Love the deck, fucking hate Mentor...

How is Prelate treating you?

Still not sold on Sanctum Prelate here - Mana can be troublesome (yes you have it vs grindy matchups like miracles, but vs combo you need it ASAP), afterall it's a 2/2 so you can expect on one hand: More Sweepers like Pyroclasm/Kozilek's Return (see BoM Miracle Lists) and on the hand you can't really attack with this guy, most creatures can kill it and Miracle with Flash Clique/Snapcaster can also lead to a blowout. I think Prelate can be strong (and i also made some testgames with him) but once the meta adjust that creature isn't so hot anymore.

Speaking above Miracles - i love this deck - i faced some really nice situations like: Thalia + Karakas on the field vs Blood Moon, my opponent plays Sword, i respond with Disenchant and after Moon was gone i bounced Thalia with Karakas and played it the following turn with Cavern protection again. Or today my opponent made an early entreat for 2 Angels (my board was empty at that time) and i played 1 Palace Jailer (with Cavern), exile 1 Token, draw a card (sitting at 28 life), my opponent also attacked for the monarch token (draw a card), i played my 2nd Jailer for the last token and never lost Monarch again and won with 1 extra card each turn. I hold Jailer at hand for a couple of turns (waiting for stuff like mentor) but i think (if you can prevent Snapcaster counterattacks) it is still good to jam him on to the field if its empty. Mangara was also very good, taxing the mana(karakas) from one opponent each turn or eat a sword (which means one less for Eldrazi&Thalia(s)). Still unsure if i want Mangara or Elspeth vs Miracles, but i really like the ability from Mangara to catch everthing like Moon, Moat, Jace and Mentor and if you have Karakas or Displacer you can combo it out.

About Displacer: I also played around with a lot of cards (like Splicer) that are very good with Displacer, but afterall Displacer itself is strong enough and keep the field in check. Remember that you can protect other creatures with him against spot removal, or you can abuse TKS (counter Miracle, or controll the draws from slow decks with big creatures, permanents or sorcery speed stuff) and finally (and i think he deserves a maindeck spot) you can combo with Jailer. I also found him not bad vs Miracle, since he can control mentor a little bit and can exile Angel tokens.

I played the list in the link below last weekend, lost my win and in for top8 but the deck feels really strong. I don't like blade splicer and loadstone. Any way here's my take on it and a deck tec by the mkm team.

http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/201...eldrazi-taxes/

Someone won a legacy 2k on 9/11 with this list.

http://i.imgur.com/ZDslC0R.jpg

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Originally Posted by mifme

I played the list in the link below last weekend, lost my win and in for top8 but the deck feels really strong. I don't like blade splicer and loadstone. Any way here's my take on it and a deck tec by the mkm team.

http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/201...eldrazi-taxes/

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Thanks for the link and gratz for a solid run!

Why 3x Faerie Macabre? The entire deck is made to crush combo, you even play 2 Priests maindeck (and the common RiP at Side), i don't see that you must overload with Graveyard Hate, since Priest + RiP can be played Turn 1 and you have still stuff like Chalice, Thalia etc.

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Originally Posted by MTGeezy

Someone won a legacy 2k on 9/11 with this list.

http://i.imgur.com/ZDslC0R.jpg

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Gratz at the winner.

Sadly i don't like the list and can't imagine it runs smoothly. I am still not convinced that Petal is the deal over Mox if you play so many White Cards (it was different with Eldrazi builds, you only needed White for Displacer) Especially if you play the full playset Smasher and also high cc cards like kavu that needs a color. Throwing away a Petal to play a sword also feels not right. It also seems risky to run a deck without Disenchant effect, i can't imagine to win vs Miracle and cards like Blood Moon, Moat, Back to Basics, Ensnaring Bridge etc. The advantage over Eldrazi (and the reason to play this build) should always be, that you have better matchups (and cards) than colorless Eldrazi. If you aren't superior in this way, there is no reason (besides personal preferences) to play a weaker "Stompy" Shell - that is why Eldrazi suppressed most other Stompy decks, simply because it do the job pretty well.

If you like the Red Splash: I would still cut every Kavu for Palace Jailer, since Jailer is a human (great bonus point) and will also kill creatures that Kavu can't harm (keep in mind that a Gofy is still a wall to Thalia(s), TKS etc.).

With red (and the right lands) i would try 1-2 Nahiri, the Harbinger at main, you can cycle useless Thalia+Mox+Chalice copies, kill stuff with support of Thalia 2.0 and Displacer (or tapped attackers from last turn) and simply gain advantage over the turns. For Sideboard you can try Wear // Tear over Disenchant and i would also try 1-2 copies of Pia and Kiran Nalaar against Miracle/Control/Moon.dec.

That 3 cards should be the reason to play red (and cripple the manabase with non basics) not a Kavu...

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Note: Personal record with my White Build yesterday:

2:0 Miracle (Legends build)
2:0 Miracle
2:0 UR Delver
1:2 OmniSneak (some really bad hands/draws involved)
2:1 DnT

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...d-white-stompy

Did a big-ish write-up of the deck in my recent Weekly article. Unfortunately didn't mention the new tech of Jailer (and Arbiter/Wingmare, I guess).

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Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...d-white-stompy

Did a big-ish write-up of the deck in my recent Weekly article. Unfortunately didn't mention the new tech of Jailer (and Arbiter/Wingmare, I guess).

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I enjoyed seeing the Bobs in the Deadguy Stompy list, made me chuckle. I've tried running them in Braids Stax actually, since there is a very nice human suite with Braids/Ophiomancer/Mardu Strike Leader/Bob and plenty of ways to sacrifice it if needed. It needed more testing, but still left me with the idea that having some cheap and persistant card draw in a stompy shell can be insane.

I really like your direction with the RW -> Mono W list, MD.

So it sounds like you'd like to sub Kavus -> Palace Jailers and Petals -> Mox Diamond?

Might we also increase the number of MD Palace Jailers because its draw is relevant in non-creature matchups?

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Originally Posted by MD.Ghost

Thanks for the link and gratz for a solid run!

Why 3x Faerie Macabre? The entire deck is made to crush combo, you even play 2 Priests maindeck (and the common RiP at Side), i don't see that you must overload with Graveyard Hate, since Priest + RiP can be played Turn 1 and you have still stuff like Chalice, Thalia etc.



Gratz at the winner.

Sadly i don't like the list and can't imagine it runs smoothly. I am still not convinced that Petal is the deal over Mox if you play so many White Cards (it was different with Eldrazi builds, you only needed White for Displacer) Especially if you play the full playset Smasher and also high cc cards like kavu that needs a color. Throwing away a Petal to play a sword also feels not right. It also seems risky to run a deck without Disenchant effect, i can't imagine to win vs Miracle and cards like Blood Moon, Moat, Back to Basics, Ensnaring Bridge etc. The advantage over Eldrazi (and the reason to play this build) should always be, that you have better matchups (and cards) than colorless Eldrazi. If you aren't superior in this way, there is no reason (besides personal preferences) to play a weaker "Stompy" Shell - that is why Eldrazi suppressed most other Stompy decks, simply because it do the job pretty well.

If you like the Red Splash: I would still cut every Kavu for Palace Jailer, since Jailer is a human (great bonus point) and will also kill creatures that Kavu can't harm (keep in mind that a Gofy is still a wall to Thalia(s), TKS etc.).

With red (and the right lands) i would try 1-2 Nahiri, the Harbinger at main, you can cycle useless Thalia+Mox+Chalice copies, kill stuff with support of Thalia 2.0 and Displacer (or tapped attackers from last turn) and simply gain advantage over the turns. For Sideboard you can try Wear // Tear over Disenchant and i would also try 1-2 copies of Pia and Kiran Nalaar against Miracle/Control/Moon.dec.

That 3 cards should be the reason to play red (and cripple the manabase with non basics) not a Kavu...

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Note: Personal record with my White Build yesterday:

2:0 Miracle (Legends build)
2:0 Miracle
2:0 UR Delver
1:2 OmniSneak (some really bad hands/draws involved)
2:1 DnT

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...d-white-stompy

Did a big-ish write-up of the deck in my recent Weekly article. Unfortunately didn't mention the new tech of Jailer (and Arbiter/Wingmare, I guess).

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Well done !

I also add Jailer MD, it's super good, thinking to add even one more since it's good also in controlish MU.

I finally recored all my Matchups with this deck.

I played 53 Matchups and gained ~75% win rating with this archetyp including various builds with Blade Splicer + Lodestone Golem and all other Ideas with Prelate/Smasher/some Splashes etc. Overall the deck concept worked well enough for me.

You can find my data under the following link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MD.Ghost

I think i finally developed a "Mono White" Version based on Eldrazi and Humans that is save enough to play in unknown meta games and nearly a streamlined stock list without "brew" ideas. I will post the list the next days to put the choices up for discussion.

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As i wrote, i can now go into more details:

My current "Mono White" Build (number 3 at data sheet):


Land (25)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Wasteland
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x City of Traitors
2x Karakas
5x Plains

Creature (23)
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2x Palace Jailer
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Eldrazi Displacer
2x Reality Smasher
3x Phyrexian Revoker

Artifact (10)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
2x Umezawa's Jitte

Instant (2)
2x Warping Wail

Sideboard (15)
2x Containment Priest
2x Disenchant
2x Mangara of Corondor
2x Orzhov Pontiff
2x Rest in Peace
2x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Swords to Plowshares


As you can see this builds features: 8x Thalia(s), Reality Smasher, Palace Jailer and overall is very streamlined without 1off random cards etc.

Creature base is 10x Human, 10x Eldrazi which works very good with Cavern of Souls, especially if you count "WW" creatures like Jailer and Mangara (Side). Revoker is basically additional disruption and (which is important) a cc2 creatures that can be played with any mana, so it fills some gaps here and there.

Why 8x Thalia(s)? I started with 3/3 for both Thalia(s), but my conclusion was: Each Thalia is very strong and i want the lady every game and as early as i can, since disruption only matters if it is deployed fast enough (which differs the stompy shell from builds like DnT). So you don't want to tutor reduced copies of Thalia with Recruiter, since this play is super slow if you have no Vials. If you play interactiv plays your opponent will throw removal at Thalia or will try to counter them on the stack, both is fine if you have other copies in hand or draw them immediately. Playing the full playset feels only wrong, if your hand are full with more copies and you need more impact on the field which can occur against fair creature decks. In this cases other cards like Blade Splicer are better, but overall the case (for me) was not common enough. It is also very nice that you can protect Thalia(s) with Karakas. Against DnT this can be risky, but i normally trim Thalia 1.0 in this matchup for Containment Priest and finally you have Wasteland to kill enemy Karakas if needed.

Palace Jailer was the last missing link for the maindeck. It completes the removal suite of Jitte, WWail, Displacer (which also works as a combo) and ensures that you draw more gas or simply enables small creatures to pass "walls" like Gofy or Strix.

MD Flexslots? Difficult to answer but i think Warping Wail can be another card - but for me it performed very solid and i would only cut with a color splash in mind (see above).

Sideboard: Full of solutions to an open meta it can be changed for local tournaments etc. The 2 slots (which means 4 cards) i would adjust are Thorn of Amethyst and Mangara. Thorn for me was solid, but if you don't see/fear combo decks often and wan't more stuff against BUG/Miracle you can also try cards like Winter Orb here.
Mangara is a card i always want to change with stuff like Planeswalker cards (and i have done it durring testing) since it aims more or less for the same matchups (control like Miracle or fringe decks like 12post/MUD etc.). For me Mangara worked well enough since i run this build (number 3 at data sheet). If i look at the planeswalker cards i can only see Elspeth 1.0, or Nahiri, or Kaya. The last two need a heavy color splash.

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Splashes:

First the biggest problem: Any real splash (which includes Planeswalker) will need result in a crippled manabase and you will face the same problems like Eldrazi (Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Land Hate etc.) if this is "ok" for you, than a Splash might work well. Little splashes (like i do with Pontiff at Side) will work without any adjustments because Mox+Cavern (and the right creature) are enough for only 2 sideboard cards.

With the flexslots i mentioned above you can easily try 1-2 Planeswalker main and also have room for some sideboard ideas.

Red Splash:
With red (and the right lands) i would try 1-2 Nahiri, the Harbinger at main, you can cycle useless Thalia+Mox+Chalice copies, kill stuff with support of Thalia 2.0 and Displacer (or tapped attackers from last turn) and simply gain advantage over the turns. For Sideboard you can try Wear // Tear over Disenchant and i would also try 1-2 copies of Pia and Kiran Nalaar against Miracle/Control/Moon.dec.

Please avoid the Kavu idea since Palace Jailer is stronger.

Looking at the Flexslots: This will result into -1/2 Warping Wail MD for +1/2 Nahiri and Side: -2 Disenchant for +2 Wear // Tear, -2 Mangara for +2 Pia and Kiran and you can adjust the Warping Wails/Nahiri Slots with Thorn if needed.

Black Splash:
Same Slots as above, but instead of the Nahiri/WWail switch i would try 1-2 Kaya, Ghost Assassin. With Palace Jailer you don't need Dark Confidant, which simply is a very risky card together with high cc Eldrazi cards and Ancient Tomb.

Blue Splash:
I only a played some games with Lavinia of the Tenth and it is hard to run more cc5 cards but overall Lavina was not bad, since she has a very nice EtB effect which can result into alpha strike allowing our small creatures to pass a stalled board and Lavina work also well with Displacer and Karakas.

Green Splash:
The only real good card for the Maindeck would be Sylvan Library for better card selection, especially with 8 Thalia(s) and 4 Moxen. Best Green card for side can be Reclamation Sage.

Conclusion:
Overall the big question is: Are these adjustments strong enough to justify a weaker manabase? I think the strongest Splash currently is red but i don't feel a Splash is needed.

I played a list like the one above this post last night. One thing I just couldn't handle was True-Name Nemesis. Maybe I allowed it to run away with the game when I could have played a little more suicidal, considering my opponent was at 1 life at the end of the game ...

Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Karakas
4 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple

Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Creature
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Containment Priest
2 Palace Jailer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer

SB
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Rest in Peace
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Disenchant
2 Phyrexian Revoker

R1 Esper Stoneblade, 0-2
G1 he lands 2x True-Name Nemesis. He keeps 1 up to block, and bolts me every turn with the other one.
G2, side in Revokers and StP. He lands 1 True-Name, and lands 1 Stoneforge, fetching Sword of Fire and Ice. I land my own Sword, he Abrupt Decays it. I land a Revoker, name Stoneforge. I waste his lands so he cannot cast the Sword. He lands a second Stoneforge, fetches Jitte. I Recruit a second Revoker, name Jitte. We durdle for a few turns, then he finally starts attacking with TNN. I land a displacer and a containment priest, start exiling his stoneforges, start attacking back. He kills my revoker naming jitte, casts and equips his jitte, beats in more with TNN. I land my own Jitte, equip, attack with everything. He goes to 1, but he pumps his TNN for lethal the next turn.

R2 Grixis Delver, 0-2.
G1 he has 2 flying Delvers. I could have PalaceJaolered 1, but it would have only given me 1 more draw step. He puts me in bolt range and I concede to the fliers.
G2, sb in stp. T1 Thalia1.0, but he wastes my land. I end up landing a T-K S, he holds brainstorm, fow, 2x pyromancer. I pull fow, since I had no Cavern. He rips 2 more wastelands, lands 2 pyros, and counters everything else. He creates too many elemental tokens, and runs me over.

R3, 4c Punishing Fire / Loam / Lands, 2-0
He starts off with Underground Sea, so I assume he's on Grixis Delver. He then follows up with Grove, so I assume something spicy. He plays P.Fire on my Thalia, and Loams, but he can't find anything other than dual lands. I end up swarming him with Displacers and more than enough mana to displace anything in case he tries to p.fire a dude.
G2, sb in RiP and Revoker, and Disenchant ... I saw Sylvan Library and Mox Diamond G1. He does his 4c durdle, abrupt decays a dude, labda a dark depths with no stage. More of the same g1, I use displacers to keep threats on the table, just in case he tries to kill them.

R4, homebrew, 2-0
G1 he plays t1 Helm of Awakening. I play Thalia1.0. He plays a Cloud Key, names artifact. I play Thalia2.0. He plays Etherium Sculptor, then plays a bunch of 2drop cantrip artifacts, like Tsabo's Web, Elsewhere Flask, blah blah. He sacrifices 3 artifacts, plays Salvage Titan. More draw triggers from the Wellspring sacrifices. I cast Displacer. He casts Sculpting Steel, copies Salvage Titan. I cast Containment Priest, exile his Salvage Titans with Displacer. Thalia beatdowns.
G2, sb in Disenchant and stp. Literally more of the same G1. Displacer mvp, except of containment priest, its palace jailer, exiling his creatures.

Total, 2-2.

Thoughts, I hate TNN. The rest is unknown yet, since I need more playtesting to determine what else to do. Maybe cut disenchant and put in a dude with disenchant etb effect. Use recruiter and displacer to toolbox out removal options?

I strongly advice 3 x SFM with 2 equips (depends on meta jitte/Bskull/SOFI) to fight problematic races or creatures. Second advice is to try Blessed Alliance vs TNN / and other MU where you need removal ASAP since you are at low life - getting 4 life and killing problematic creature gives edge over tempo.

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Originally Posted by AceOfJacks

Thoughts, I hate TNN. The rest is unknown yet, since I need more playtesting to determine what else to do. Maybe cut disenchant and put in a dude with disenchant etb effect. Use recruiter and displacer to toolbox out removal options?

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I am not sold on your toolbox MD and Side with Stuff like Leyline?! I would advice to change 1 Priest with 1 Revoker since you also play 2 Jailer (if you want to Combo with Displacer) and Revoker has a unique effect for this deck (answer problematic stuff that you can't kill like Equipment).

@True Name Nemsis:

That card can be bad, but you have plenty of "soft tools" to fight TNN like: Droping Thalia 2.0 which a) slow down the development of a manabase b) works nice with your own Wastelands to prevent 3 Mana for TNN c) TNN enters tapped which means one more swing and a window to overrun them later. I would also suggest my 2 copies of Reality Smasher which also "ignores" an unequiped (single) TNN. A pair of TKS should also work, since 4/4 body helps - so it is good to have some Eldrazi-Beater in this deck. Displacer itself is also a nice tool - it can't interact with TNN but it can flicker the blocked creature to avoid damage from TNN, which means, once you have some creatures on the field and active displacer you can still pass the "TNN wall". I also used Palace Jailer in one game against TNN simply to force a reaction: "Let me draw 2 cards each turn or attack with TNN which opens a window for counterattack". If you have both Thalias on the field and Karakas it also means you can "shock" your opponent and replay the blocked Thalia 2.0.

Conclusion: Yes TNN can be nasty (thanks Wizards...) but the Maindeck should be able to fight back in some way so TNN alone is no auto loss.

You still need more help?:
-Orzhov Pontiff (i like this card a lot!)
-Blessed Alliance (removal that can lead to a blowout thanks to escalate)
-Sword of Fire and Ice / Sword of Body and Mind (also blanks Gofy!)
-Flying (This deck can use creatures like Aven Mindcensor or Vryn Wingmare)
-Planeswalkers (Elspeth, Knight-Errant = fly over it // Elspeth Tirel = enforces a response // Gideon Jura = break of "Walls")
-Blade Splicer + Eldrazi Displacer Combo to overrun TNN (same is true for other "Human Flicker" stuff like: Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Geist-Honored Monk etc.)
-Lavinia of the Tenth to lockdown TNN&Co (+Karakas/Displacer Combo)

As you can see this deck can use many cards to pass TNN - i only mentioned stuff that can also be usefull in other situations and (besides Pia&Kira) don't need another Splash/Manabase.

You would think that 24 lands is enough to not get mana screwed. I guess I just suck at shuffling.
Went 1-2 tonight.

Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Karakas
4 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple

Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Creature
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Palace Jailer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Reality Smasher

SB
4 Rest in Peace
2 Containment Priest
2 Disenchant
3 Council's Judgment
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine (Grabbed the wrong sword on my way out of the door. Whatever.)

R1 Helm of Awakening / Salvage Titan Homebrew.
Thalia2.0 wrecks him both games. He cannot deal with all the Time Walks she gives. No need to further comment.
2-0 match, 1-0 total.

R2 Reanimator.
G1 he super duper wrecks me with his recursion strategies. Inkwell Leviathan hurts when you cannot kill it.
G2, Rest in Peace gets there. Also had Containment Priest just in case of Show and Tell.
G3, he turn 1 plays: Island, Careful Study, Petal, Careful Study, Petal, Reanimate Grave Titan. Well ... fuck.
1-2 match, 1-1 total.

R3, R/G Lands.
G1 he Loams 363885251 Wastelands, and has a Punishing Fire. Displacer hits him for a little while, but he kills me after he Mazes the Displacer to oblivion.
G2, I draw ... 2 ... lands ... all game. I landed a Rest in Peace though! Irrelevant, as I have no mana for all the Thought-Knot Seers and Displacers in my hand. He draws into his Krosan Grip, kills Rest in Peace, and I draw 7 cards, all creatures, while he draws Wastelands and Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage.

What have we learned? I either draw no lands, or flood out. Time to burn my collection?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AceOfJacks

What have we learned? I either draw no lands, or flood out. Time to burn my collection?

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You only have a small sample size and i guess your Reanimate Opponent was very lucky (and luck matters at this game from time to time), Reanimator is a good matchup you have a lot of tools to fight them (more than DnT or Eldrazi) and you can deploy hate as early as T1! But yeah i also faced matchups (like one vs infect) with T1 Daze-Proof Thalia (and more stuff in hand) and eat a force and got killed on his 2nd turn - beeing on the draw vs fast combo can sometimes be game over, especially if they also have protection - but this is not a common case.

But (for my taste) your build isn't so good. I will go into the details:

Look at the lands: only 24 are very risky, especially with Mox Diamond and (without Diamond) 4 Karakas can cause additional trouble (even DnT reduced numbers to 2-3 Karakas). You will not win enough games with a stompy shell if the manabase isn't solid enough and you can't count on lucky hands/draws that are able to win games on the spot.

Creatures: You only have 24 lands, but you have a high manacurve (higher than mine with 25 lands) because you included the 3rd Smasher, Batterskull (with only 2 Stoneforges so not common to cheat it in every time / and hardcasting can lead to 6 mana with Thalia on the field) and Recruiter which is a creature that also needs mana and/or slow you down because if you can't (no Vial) cast the creature the same turn, your opponent can tax your fragile manabase (so you are unable to cast the tutored creature the next turn) or can prepare discard/counter/removal. Overall i don't feel Recruiter is the right creature here. Yes he works well with Displacer but this play is also very slow/grindy and displacer can do a lot of other usefull things over a game. Recruiter itself can't beat well and means: Waste a Turn for hopefully a very good target for the current situation. Without Revoker MD you also miss the opportunity for more colorless T1 plays and it is also a cheap creature that work well with stompy mana.

In my humble opinion Side is also not a good config. Playset Rest in Peace is overkill and one more dead draw (think about mox, thalia etc.) if drawn multiple - yes your opponent can kill it, but the damage is already done in most cases and (unless you fight real graveyard decks like Reanimator or Dredge) you don't have to slam it on the field T1 or T2 against most matchups. Council's Judgment also seems like a nice "catch all" but it is rather slow (compare it to Swords to Plowshares which can kill stuff T1 even if you are on the draw), really stress the Manabase because WW is not so easy for non creatures (Cavern greatly helps for Creatures if you keep it simply like: Eldrazi+Humans) and overall as a (slow sorcery) Spell can be countered and it is also taxed from your own Thalia. That is also the reason i not mentioned it vs TNN. If you still like Judgment i can see it as a replacement for 1 Mangara at my side, but keep the other one because he is good enough (Cavern/Displacer/Karakas).

Conclusion: Yes cutting lands is a big mistake and deckbuilding not so easy.