No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

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Originally Posted by jmlima

I would argue that the value of any investment, if you can even consider it an investment vehicle which if I was the lawyer would never do, is prone to fluctuations, hence the price dip or rise is bound to be expected, plus, there have been previous fluctuations in price and the cards returned to their original value, or even surpassed it.

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Caveat that I do not think it is an investment vehicle but promissory estoppel comes from the same idea as fraud in investment law. Like I said before if this was an investment and wizards made a false statement of fact ("we will never do X") that led you as an investor to price the investment differently, when that fact is shown to be false you as an investor are allowed to sue. Promissory estoppel comes from much the same mind frame. The reason I'm bringing this up is not because I think promissory estoppel is a strong argument, but just to show that the common refrain of "investments go up and down" doesn't really hold much water.

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Originally Posted by aedemiel

Which is exactly what people have been doing for YEARS and yet the format is still dying.

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Hence, why I really believe we should give Trinity a shot. Let the players carry the format innovation instead. Community based grass roots formats are the formats that succeed and survive the longest, compare Brawl to Commander, or even Pauper, and Old School (Which makes the reserved list into a feature and is incredibly popular).

I recommend you watch this video, it's very insightful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7mTsF2g_jc

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Originally Posted by bruizar

Hence, why I really believe we should give Trinity a shot.

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I feel like we're not talking about the same thing.

We don't want to play Trinity. We want to play Legacy.

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Originally Posted by aedemiel

I feel like we're not talking about the same thing.

We don't want to play Trinity. We want to play Legacy.

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If that is the case, then there are still a few other options. For instance, seriously commit to discussing budget decks and include budget alternatives in deck Primers to help people onboard.

Sure.
There are already a good chunk of budget-friendly decks in Legacy.

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Originally Posted by aedemiel

Sure.
There are already a good chunk of budget-friendly decks in Legacy.

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ehhhhh

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

ehhhhh

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Truth is, I'm not even joking. I started playing Legacy with Mono:g: Enchantress.

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Originally Posted by aedemiel

Truth is, I'm not even joking. I started playing Legacy with Mono:g: Enchantress.

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Doesn't that deck play a playset of 50 dollar bridges?
And isn't that a worse version that plays hundred dollar serra sanctum?

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

Doesn't that deck play a playset of 50 dollar bridges?
And isn't that a worse version that plays hundred dollar serra sanctum?

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I wasn't playing Bridges and the Sanctums were my first actual investment.

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

ehhhhh

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Arcum's Astrolabe and Prismatic Vista are the best things to happen to Legacy in a long time. These two cards single-handedly dropped the investment into Legacy decks by a lot for a four-color deck.

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Originally Posted by Michael Keller

Arcum's Astrolabe and Prismatic Vista are the best things to happen to Legacy in a long time. These two cards single-handedly dropped the investment into Legacy decks by a lot for a four-color deck.

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Sure, you can take 60 islands to any format, that doesn't make the format budget

Manaless dredge is a great example of a deck that costs very little, and the Force of Wills needed to play it are almost universally good in the format.

Can we back up a second? (Honest questions forth coming)
Aside from reprints, why do we need Wizards to do for Legacy? Why do people need sanctioned rules? Why can't people use proxies? Why can't we used Wizards banned list and proxies and still have tournaments? Why are people so dependant on a "higher power" for approval. This is like looking towards big government to "fix" problems that can be solved at a local or individual level.
The concept of the Community running Legacy is being completely dismissed because some people still hope to get reprints?
Sure, you can point to Vintage and say that proxies don't keep a format alive, but that's not the only reason why Vintage isn't such a thing anymore.
It's time to move on. Wizards has let this RL thing drag on too long to efficiently fix it, not do they want to deal with any legal/ fiscal/ reputational fallout for action. Fixing Legacy starts at a community level.
After all, EDH started as an independent format. Then Wizards saw it was a thing and co-opted it. Make Legacy great again from the ground level and someday WoTC might give two shits. But by, then who will need them?
Plus, people can buy "play test" cards from China.

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Originally Posted by bruizar

Manaless dredge is a great example of a deck that costs very little, and the Force of Wills needed to play it are almost universally good in the format.

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You just named a 90 dollar per card playset.

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Originally Posted by the Thin White Duke

Can we back up a second? (Honest questions forth coming)
Aside from reprints, why do we need Wizards to do for Legacy? Why do people need sanctioned rules? Why can't people use proxies? Why can't we used Wizards banned list and proxies and still have tournaments? Why are people so dependant on a "higher power" for approval. This is like looking towards big government to "fix" problems that can be solved at a local or individual level.
The concept of the Community running Legacy is being completely dismissed because some people still hope to get reprints?
Sure, you can point to Vintage and say that proxies don't keep a format alive, but that's not the only reason why Vintage isn't such a thing anymore.
It's time to move on. Wizards has let this RL thing drag on too long to efficiently fix it, not do they want to deal with any legal/ fiscal/ reputational fallout for action. Fixing Legacy starts at a community level.
After all, EDH started as an independent format. Then Wizards saw it was a thing and co-opted it. Make Legacy great again from the ground level and someday WoTC might give two shits. But by, then who will need them?
Plus, people can buy "play test" cards from China.

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Support from the mothership means visibility, prize pools, and reprints. Same reason why legacy saw a spike in play when team trios was on the pro tour

Okay so crazy outside of the box perspective here... But if you read and really break down the SCG article here's my outside of the box take. Obviously we and Wizards can't/won't get rid of the reserve list.... But what if we do what we can do as a play group to create enough of a stir to get Wizards to take action on what they can take action on... So Outside of the box thinking what if we pull back on the use of all our Legacy/Vintage staples and simply only make EDH/Command newer product or boycott Commander all together until Wizards does the only thing I think that could save Legacy as a format at this point... That being BAN the entire reserve list from Commander!! Think about it even SCG even admitted that commander is helping spike the price of Legacy staples and made the format obsolete... So if we can't get rid of the reserve list, how bout we get rid of the use of reserve list cards in a format like EDH and allow those cards to only thrive in Legacy and Vintage constructed.... I think that would help tremendously!!

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Originally Posted by TnA_Will

until Wizards does the only thing I think that could save Legacy as a format at this point...

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They don't want this to happen tho.

I'm actually pretty happy with this thread. Before it, legacy players were in denial about the state of decline. Ignoring, rather than confirming and addressing the problem will not lead to a better situation in the future. Now that the problem is acknowledged we can do something about it, or accept it and move on.

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Originally Posted by bruizar

I'm actually pretty happy with this thread. Before it, legacy players were in denial about the state of decline. Ignoring, rather than confirming and addressing the problem will not lead to a better situation in the future. Now that the problem is acknowledged we can do something about it, or accept it and move on.

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I dont' think there's been any original idea in the last 8 pages

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Originally Posted by Michael Keller

That's the point. The onus shouldn't be nor it shouldn't ever have been on the player to "support their local Legacy scene."

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The onus is on and should always be on anyone who wants to have Legacy around as a format. I'm pretty sure players of said format fall into that category.