Ya hermit druid is awesome! Thats why it's banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
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Ya hermit druid is awesome! Thats why it's banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
Off topic, but recurring Deranged Hermit with Genesis would be sick, the picture of a horde of 2/2 flying squirrels would be priceless, and it's not that unreasonable if you guys are considering Psychatog and Gigapede as finishers.
@ Vacrix
Most of those options aren't really needed, as they are just redundant. Stronghold has merits in builds with Counterbalance but is just bad overall in this build. Eternal Witness isn't a bad option, but it's extremely slow and this deck isn't geared for the late late game. My version has no trouble with combo matchups to warrant Negator, where'd I'd much rather run Werebear or Quirion Dryad anyway. The Goblins matchup is pretty good as well, where I'd rather run Stifles or Blue Elemental Blasts in the board vs them instead of Plague Spitter.
Braids, Cabal Minion is a pretty good option, though I don't feel that it is supported well in this version. I think with Bitterblossoms and a few Stax pieces (like Tangle Wire), it could easily be strong. Just not in here.
Gigapede and Tog fill 2 different important niches. Gigapede can recur himself and Tog ends the game the next turn. Deranged Hermit recursion is extremely slow... 8cc per recur. That's not that attractive when you can pay 5cc for Gigapede or 6cc for Tog (w/ recur). Plus the tokens have some bad synergy with Deed, to boot.Quote:
Off topic, but recurring Deranged Hermit with Genesis would be sick, the picture of a horde of 2/2 flying squirrels would be priceless, and it's not that unreasonable if you guys are considering Psychatog and Gigapede as finishers.
I've got to agree with Hanni. My version doesn't really have trouble against control either--which is to say, it has no particular weakness to control decks. Control can beat the deck, which should be obvious. So can Threshold, for that matter. But the deck wins against these consistently enough that they aren't problematic in and of themselves.
As an extra recurring beatstick, the Scarab isn't bad. Unless something else gets printed soon, I think it's my preferred optional extra.
As far as Werebear goes, I'm more and more impressed. It means a slight change in playstyle (can't be as reckless with opening hands), but immunity to most mana shenanigans is a nice plus. Still, it doesn't help all that much versus Dragon Stompy, and even less versus Stax. I'm prepared to give up on Stax as pretty much an auto-loss, but losing consistency against Dragon Stompy irks me. In most other matchups, however, Werebear has thus far proven the stronger choice (surprise surprise), at least until hate comes in. At that point, VE is a little better. I'll keep playing with the bears to see how it goes, but I'm not ready to sub them in in VE's place just yet.
I'm big on bears, one of the deck's problems is Daze keeps it off 3c for Intuition and Pernicious Deed, and bears off sets that.
This Eventide spoiled card might be good for the deck...and replace the Pedes!
Worm Harvest
2{bg}{bg}{bg}
Sorcery
Put a 1/1 black and green Worm creature token into play for each land card in your graveyard.
Retrace (You may play this card from your graveyard by discarding a land card in addition to paying its other costs.)
Better synergy with Loam than Pede, and I think I'd prefer four or five 1/1 to a single 6/1. I just hate having to run Pede into those Fanatics, Mongeese or Isamarus...
The purpose of Gigapede is that he can recur himself over and over while also being untargetable. This makes him strong vs control, which is what he is intended for. Worm Harvest isn't bad but it doesn't compare to the power level of Gigapede for the intended purpose. Gigapede is also resilient to Deed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgjorge
It's certainly a possibility, and worth toying around with. I do have some concerns, however:
1.) It would dilute some of the potency of Intuition piles. Gigapede is still very prominent in my piles, especially when they feature Wonder. It's an excellent alternative to 'Tog and Coliseum, which aren't always possible or even ideal.
2.) After the graveyard has been wiped clean, it's significantly less attractive than Gigapede.
3.) Tokens suck with Deed.
It might also need some re-tooling mana and loam-wise, since without Loam discarding a land card is a significant price until very late in the game. Nonetheless, I'm pretty excited about it. At first glance, it looks like it might be a better choice than the lone Grave-Shell Scarab I have kicking around in my sideboard, so I'll give it a start there and see what happens.
As far as running 'pede into things goes... if mine can't fly for some reason, I usually wait to let a Tarmogoyf run itself through on its pincers. Losing it to a Fanatic or Hound is generally a bad trade, I agree, but only because the decks running those creatures are very creature-heavy. Using it to take out a Mongoose, however, is an excellent trade in my opinion, since Threshold can seldom (if ever) recur its creatures, and it has a very creature-light base. Plus, you're bringing the Gigapede back most every turn, which creates tremendous pressue on the Threshold deck to find "answers," especially since its removal is invalidated.
Anyway, thanks for bringing the card up; I hadn't given it much thought before, and it certainly deserves some.
In my build, I've decided to go:
-1 Psychatog
+1 Gigapede
Considering ITF is getting pretty big, I felt this was a much better option. 2 different win conditions give me additional resilience to Extirpate, while Gigapede can often outpower Goyf and cannot be hit by StP or Shackles. 5cc also takes him out of EE range and it makes it alot harder to hit with Deed. Not only that, but he is extremely hard to hit with Counterbalance (vs opposing decks that run it). I'm probably still going to grab Loam/Coliseum/Gigapede, but now I also have the option for Gigapede/Wasteland/Loam in the games where that will matter.
(More info regarding these additional changes are in posts below this one.)
(-1 Tog, +1 Thoughtseize)
(-1 Shriemmaw, +1 Stinkweed Imp)
U/G/b Intuition Thresh
Lands (19)
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Wasteland
Creatures (14)
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Shriekmaw
1 Stinkweed Imp
1 Gigapede
1 Wonder
1 Genesis
Spells (27)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pernicious Deed
Sideboard (15)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Pernicious Deed
Cutting the Togs takes me down to 20 blue sources, which is still enough for FoW. Putting Gigapede and Stinkweed Imp in the maindeck free'd up sideboard slots so I added the 4th Extirpate, since Extirpate is really strong against the format right now, and the 4th Cabal Therapy, since it improves my burn matchup as well as other matchups.
-----------------------------------------
...and the new developmental list is:
U/G/b/r Anrgy Intuition Thresh
Lands (19)
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Bayou
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Wasteland
Creatures (15)
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Shriekmaw
1 Gigapede
1 Wonder
1 Genesis
1 Anger
Spells (26)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pernicious Deed
Sideboard (15)
4 Extirpate
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Stinkweed Imp
Loam/Gigapede/Anger is a pretty strong alternate Intuition pile that is going to demolish certain matchups.
Turn 1 Brainstorm, Turn 2 Thoughtseize + Mongoose, Turn 3 Intuition, Turn 4 Loam + Coliseum (and activation) + Goyf (Inution grabbing Angry Giga), Turn 5 Gigapede.
Turn 3, 1 damage.
Turn 4, 8 damage.
Turn 5, 14 damage.
That's a turn 5 goldfish with Anger. Against combo, especially backed by FoW (and Daze, though that slows the goldfish down a turn), that's nuts. If you get a Thoughtseize and a FoW in there, you can race combo. That's nutty. Especially postboard, with Cabal Therapy's, I can see this vastly improving the burn matchup, which has been my worst matchup to date. Hasted beaters also sound strong against control decks... and the rest of the entire field? lol
I don't think cutting 1 Stinkweed Imp is appropriate but I think the 4th Thoughtseize should be non-negotiable since it is 1cc spot removal as well as removal for whatever. Games that start with a Thoughtseize on turn 1 or turn 2 are almost always good. Aside from dropping down to 19 blue sources (which I really don't want to go below 20), is Wonder even really needed anymore with the haste? Last time I checked, fat green hasty beaters don't really need flying to be devastating (and Wonder doesn't fit in the Angry Intuition pile).
So maybe -1 Wonder +1 Anger (instead of -1 Imp)? I really don't wanna go below 20 blue sources though...
Hanni, our lists keep getting closer and closer (at least until I try out some wacked out stuff, like VE). :smile:
I'm really glad you're enjoying that list, though, and are coming over to love Gigapede. He's just so stellar all-around, and ITF only helped that. I hope something similar gets printed soon, because I wouldn't mind running two.
One question for you, since you've probably done more testing with the card than I have: how's Thoughtseize been working out? More specifically, how much does it shore up the combo matchups, and what kind of impact has it had on other matchups? Without Brynn Argoll Thresh going insane as I feared, some of the changes that I pre-emptively made to my own list seem less necessary, despite remaining (in my opinion) quite good, and I'd like to pack in more MD disruption anyway.
Like I've said all along, I always felt naked with just FoW and Deed. Daze and Thoughtseize come in and change the dynamics of play. Thoughtseize is amazing at what it does... 1cc to remove any 1 card while you get to see the opponent's entire hand. The ability to see the opponent's hand is just so broken... especially when you run Tog. It's 1cc spot removal but at the same time it's Duress, so I'm sure you can figure out how good it is vs combo. Thoughtseize is just good all around... the only decks it isn't good against are those that don't have drawbacks from discard.
Recently, I've been trying out a version that very nearly resembles the one you (Hanni) posted above with great success. You're right, and I think it's pretty much the way to go. Thoughtseize has the advantage of being pro-active, whereas Sudden Death was very reactive. And since Bryn Argoll Thresh isn't tearing up the format as I thought it would, I think that it's the better route to go due in large part to its improved combo matchup pre-board. I do still like having a single Witness kicking around, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
I do have some concerns with the sideboard you posted, though.
*Is there any reason to run EE rather than Crime/Punishment? We can't recur EE with Academy Ruins, and EE can't hit man/artifact lands. To be fair, Punishment won't usually hit manlands either. Punishment has roughly the same mana requirement early on, but it has the added advantages of being able to hit higher casting costs more easily and dodging Counterbalance more effectively.
*Is Pithing Needle all that useful if we're already running Deed, Punishment/EE, and Krosan Grip? My own feeling is that it would only get in the way.
Also, a question: What do you find yourself using the Stinkweed Imp for the most? Extra removal, or massive dredging? Obviously, it's a good card for the deck because it can fill multiple roles; I'm just wondering which role you ask it to perform the most often.
I just prefer Explosives because the mana costs can be split up over 2 turns, whereas with Crime/Punishment, you need it all up front. However, both cards have their pros and cons so it is a debatable choice.Quote:
Is there any reason to run EE rather than Crime/Punishment?
Pithing Needle is just one of those cards that answers some stuff that you'd rather not have to play against. I realize the disynergy with Deed, but the card does alot. It's 1 card that can shut down potentially 4 cards in the opponent's deck and it can be proactive as well as reactive.Quote:
Is Pithing Needle all that useful if we're already running Deed, Punishment/EE, and Krosan Grip? My own feeling is that it would only get in the way.
Stinkweed Imp comes in for Tombstalker. To a lesser extent, it's also designed to answer Dark Confidant, Doran, and Nantuko Shade. It's also nice against Sutured Ghoul.Quote:
Also, a question: What do you find yourself using the Stinkweed Imp for the most? Extra removal, or massive dredging?
I don't really use it for the dredge... but the added bonus is nice.
---
I also want to say that I'm loving Gigapede and should have been running it before. Now, I still stand on alot of my criticisms against it, but it's just incredibly strong against Counterbalance and other control decks. I also like the fact that Loam/Wasteland/Gigapede is a really strong Intuition pile.
I actually like this deck and the way it plays out like T reshold with a nice lategame engine. So I tried it out and found it really strong, but I'd like to strengthen the T reshold aspect of the deck a bit.
I think that T reshold with 3 Daze only is not built very well and I would appreciate fitting a 4th Thoughtseize into the deck as well (not so important, though).
What should I cut for the 4th Daze and should a 4th Thoughtseize be played in general?
(Why does it write ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh in here btw?)
After playing with the new changes alot, I've found Psychatog underwhelming. Psychatog, before, was a two-of that I could possibly draw into if the game got far enough to just end the game right away. As a 1-of, it's become much more dependant on Intuition, where I prefer Gigapede over Psychatog for (almost) all situations. It's a much better 1-of, IMO, especially since it is an engine in itself if Genesis gets Extirpated or something.
However, I've been considering that Angry Tog might be the nuts, especially with Wonder. All it would take, really, is to just cut 1 land for 1 Volcanic Island and then cut 1 card for Anger. Genesis back Tog, Thoughtseize the opponent, swing for lethal that turn. Costs 7 mana and some prior setup too but that's still not a bad goldfish for a control deck. Plus, it can be broken up over several turns if need be (recur via Genesis, unable cast Tog yet).
However, this deck is not always a control deck and Mongoose + Goyf can goldfish faster than that.
That got me thinking... wouldn't Angry Gigapede be even better? I mean, you recur him and play him as a 6/1 haste. That's ball lightning status almost. Then if he dies, you recur him again and play him as another 6/1 with haste. His inability to actually be removed by the opponent without something like Extirpate is just sick with haste.
However, I think 3 Thoughtseize is wrong. It's kinda like running 3 StP's (without another 1-of spot removal)... you just don't do it.
So at this point:
-1 Psychatog
Now, I'm not sure whether I should toss in an Anger or toss in the 4th Thoughtseize. The damage to the manabase is going to be inconsequential. Which card is going to improve the deck more and against what?
For now, I'm going to toy around with it both ways. Maybe there is another card that can get cut to where I can run both Anger and the 4th Thoughtseize but I'm not sure yet, the list is really tight already.
I'm also cutting 1 Shriekmaw from the maindeck for 1 Stinkweed Imp, dropping the lone Imp from the sideboard, and adding the 4th Therapy in the sideboard.
MD
-1 Shriekmaw
+1 Stinkweed Imp
SB
-1 Stinkweed Imp
+1 Cabal Therapy
You don't need the 4th Daze. I know it may sound dumb that Daze is being ran as a 3-of if you look at it by itself, but you have to keep it mind that it has a similar function as FoW. Essentially, you're getting 7 early game free countermagics. The 4th Daze often gives you more dead cards later on. Now, that's not such a bad thing when you have Coliseum to discard, cantrip to shuffle away, etc but it's not necessary to run the 4th. This deck also values land drops, so excessive Dazing is actually counter-productive sometimes.Quote:
What should I cut for the 4th Daze and should a 4th Thoughtseize be played in general?
However, the deck should somehow find a way to fit the 4th Thoughtseize. 3 Thoughtseize is an eyesore on its lonesome without additional discard. Drop a Tog, add the 4th Thoughtseize. Problem solved.
----
I edited my decklist above (several posts up) to reflect my current developmental changes. I also added some additional information to the above decklist post as well.
I'm also in the process of writing up a new primer, even though it's taking me a really long time because I've been busy lately and I want it to contain ALOT of information. If anyone wants to send some PM's to collaberate a little about it, be my guest. I think a new primer would rejuvenate discussion on this deck, as well.
I'm not sure why no one is interested in this deck but whatever.
Anyways, I've decided to revert back to 3 Shriekmaw maindeck because they are better at removing Goyfs. Tombstalkers are much less important to me than opposing Goyfs. This deck should either be able to race Tombstalkers with Goyfs or simply block them via Wonder later on... most of the time, at least from personal experience, Tombstalkers don't come down before turn 4. Obviously, I'm still going to keep 1 Stinkweed Imp in the sideboard.
Lately, I've been finding Pithing Needle less and less attractive as a sideboard option. It get's wiped away by Deed (and sometimes EE) frequently and cannot be recurred. It is an extremely powerful card but I believe this deck has sufficient answers to anything it would need the Pithing Needles for.
I also want to fit in some Blue Elemental Blasts. I haven't had significant issues with Goblins or Dragon Stompy... but the Blue Elemental Blasts not only improve those matchups, they also improve Burn and (Goyf) Sligh. The ability to also hit decks like TES and Belcher is just an additional bonus. Considering that Burn is this decks hardest matchup (and Goyf Sligh can be pretty difficult, too), I'd say that Blue Elemental Blasts are worthy sideboard cards.
I obviously need room in the sideboard to fit them so I'm gonna drop the 1-of Deed.
So after tweaking the maindeck and sideboard configurations around a little bit, this is my current incarnation and what I believe is my strongest list to date:
U/G/b Intuition Thresh
Smart Thresh
Lands (19)
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Wasteland
Creatures (14)
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Gigapede
3 Shriekmaw
1 Wonder
1 Genesis
Spells (27)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pernicious Deed
Sideboard (15)
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Stinkweed Imp
Like I said before, I'm in the process of writing up a new primer for this deck. The deck name I'm using is Intuition Thresh and I'm almost done writing it up. No one has PM'd me about it yet to collaberate info with me so I hope no one is upset when I post it.
So I've tried a red (and of course Aggro) version of the deck, and though I haven't been able to test much, it's 6-1 (against REAL decks, not Elves or something) as of now...
It's basically a UGr Thresh with lategame plans instead of putting everything into a quick kill. The games always go the same - you play creatures, they play creatures or removal, and still somehow they usually go down to ten or twelve life in the process. Then you either resolve an Intuition, or try to squeeze in the last few points of damage with creatures and Burn. It's a good plan.
Like I've argued extensively before, I don't like the controllish builds very much and they play differently, so this is not really comparable to the builds running Deed, Genesis and everything. Anyway, in comparison to black builds, you lose better removal (Smother) and discard (though I would play two Seize maximum). In comparison to white, you lose the best removal (Swords) and two good creatures in Grunt and Mage. BUT, you gain extra reach (important), especially with Loam + Ring in case you can't come through with creatures (too many defenders, Humility, Moat etc).
One more thing...any version not totally controllish really needs a Roar of the Worm. Trust me. When you are under attack, Intuition gives you Worm next turn, and Pede after that. Recurring a Goyf with Genesis or Coliseum with Loam the turn after Intuition just doesn't protect you from getting your head beaten in. It can also be nicely discarded by Mongrel...
So the list:
8 Fetches
8 Duals (of three different styles)
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Barbarian Ring
4 Goyf
4 Mongrel
3 Mongoose
1 Pede
1 Worm
1 Wonder
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam
4 Bolt
3 Fire/Ice
4 Force
3 Spell Snare
I like Snare better than Daze here because Daze is best when you go first, whereas Snare can help you get over the disadvantage of going second. It's also better in the lategame. It's a close call, and a bit of personal preference decides it...
Like the other builds, this has a hard time against combo and Burn. So the sideboard will include 3 Jitte (Goblins and Burn), 3 Stifle and 2 Arcane Lab, at the very least.
I think that a UGr approach is very interesting. Obviously very different than UGb (and deserving of its own thread), but it definitely has potential. My favorite Thresh build has always been UGr Thresh with 12 green beaters and 11 burn spells.
I'd fit Anger in. Anger is better than Wonder in your list. Flying isn't as necessary to you as it is in UGb lists because you have burn for when the ground stalemates. However, giving all of your guys Haste is very complimentary to the G/R Beats strategy.
I don't think you need Roar of the Wurm. Just because it gives you a play on turn 4 after you cast Intuition doesn't mean it's necessary. You're already the aggressor here so I don't think you need it for defensive purposes like you said. Even if it can be discarded via Mongrel, it's still not something I think the deck needs. Roar of the Wurm is a good card but I think you'd be better off with the 4th Mongoose.
The Intuition pile looks like it should be: Loam/Gigapede/Anger. Sometimes you'll want to replace Anger with Wasteland, in matchups where Waste-lock autowins you the game.
I don't like Spell Snare and would definitely run Daze instead. I read your description and I realize that both have pros and cons but Snare is very situational whereas Daze answers more spells (we're talking early game here). You don't really need to worry about lategame bombs since the game shouldn't go to the lategame very often and you do have Gigapede. I'd also highly recommend the 4th Daze.
Fire//Ice is a solid card but I'd run Chain Lightning in its place simply because its more aggressive (less mana, more damage).
I'd also modify the manabase to mimic my UGb manabase (with Barbarian Ring replacing Cephalid Coliseum). This means 4 basics and 1 Wasteland.
With my above recommendations, the deck is 61 cards. I'd drop 1 Wild Mongrel to take it down to 60 (since I feel it is the weakest card in the deck).
U/G/r Intuition Thresh
Lands (19)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Wasteland
Creatures (13)
4 Mongoose
4 Goyf
3 Wild Mongrel
1 Gigapede
1 Anger
(Spells (28)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
That's what I'd run, personally, if I were going to play a UGr version of Intuition Thresh. However, I'm not sure if Wild Mongrel is better than Werebear or Quirion Dryad in here and I think that is something that would need tested.
---
My black build doesn't have a hard time against combo, just burn. The (normal) combo matchup is very favorable for my UGb build, actually.Quote:
Like the other builds, this has a hard time against combo and Burn.
For sideboarding vs burn, Jitte is decent but only attaches to 8 of your guys. Against Goblins, Pyroclasm is far superior. Personally, I'd just run Blue Elemental Blasts for those matchups since BEB also hits Dragon Stompy and other decks.
I wouldn't run Arcane Labratory either. If I was going to run an Enchantment like that, I'd run Pyrostatic Pillar instead.
Thanks for the reply ! I'll surely try out some of those recommendations...
As to the Intuition targets, however, I don't share your opinion. I'd rather play the creatures out of my hand before casting Intuition, making haste not necessary. But flying IS - Burn is often not enough to get through.
Roar...I think it's amazing. In situations where a 6/1 is just not so good, you can play a 6/6 instead. And I think being able to curve out on turn four and five IS important for an aggressive deck. Also, you don't always reach five mana for 'Pede in time (you can get Loam, but you may want to do other things with your mana).
Dryad I've tested, and it's underwhelming. I don't know why (the deck isn't that different from Thresh), but I have a hard time getting it bigger than 4/4 over the following two turns..
You really don't have trouble against combo ? Looking at the list, it seems not so easy...From my experience, seven discard and four Forces give you a decent chance, but it shouldn't be that favorable (also, there are only eight creatures to flashback Therapy).
Obviously you want to play your guys quickly to push damage through quickly. However, you're not always going to be dropping guys right away. Sometimes you're going to have to cantrip into them, like normal Thresh. Instead of dropping Goyf on turn 4 and then waiting for turn 5 to attack, you can simply drop him and swing immediately once you have Anger in the bin.Quote:
As to the Intuition targets, however, I don't share your opinion. I'd rather play the creatures out of my hand before casting Intuition, making haste not necessary. But flying IS - Burn is often not enough to get through.
I'm not going to discredit Wonder, since it may be invaluable in this deck much like it is in UGb. I'm simply saying that I'd prefer to grab Anger over Wonder in most situations. Giving Gigapede haste is rediculous.
Turn 1 Brainstorm.
Turn 2 Ponder, Mongoose.
Turn 3 Intuition (grabbing Loam/Gigapede/Anger), swing for 1.
Turn 4 Dredge & cast Loam, Goyf (pitching Anger w/ Gigapede), swing for 7.
Turn 5 Gigapede, swing for 15.
That's a turn 5 goldfish, 23 damage on turn 5. Backed by FoW, that will sometimes race combo (especially burn).
With only 19 lands, you will very rarely hit 4 lands on turn 4 without the assistance of Loam. This makes curving with RotW less likely. There are very few times where having a 6/6 is any different from having a 6/1. Considering that the token doesn't recur and is targetable simply makes it a worse card. Giving Gigapede Haste and/or Flying fixes whatever you might want a 6/6 over a 6/1 for. It's not that RotW is bad in here... it's that I don't find it necessary.Quote:
Roar...I think it's amazing. In situations where a 6/1 is just not so good, you can play a 6/6 instead. And I think being able to curve out on turn four and five IS important for an aggressive deck. Also, you don't always reach five mana for 'Pede in time (you can get Loam, but you may want to do other things with your mana).
Dryad is probably bad in here, it was just a suggestion. Honestly, I think Werebear is the best creature for that spot. It taps for mana, accelerating into turn 3 Intuitions in games where you had to Daze early. It's very easy to hit Threshold with this deck and I'd say that a post-Thresh Werebear is a better beater than Wild Mongrel. The fact that Mongrel discards Anger/Wonder hardly seems relevant when considering what creature would be better. The biggest pro to Wild Mongrel that I see is that it's not Threshold dependant and it's usually a bit more aggressive early on.Quote:
Dryad I've tested, and it's underwhelming. I don't know why (the deck isn't that different from Thresh), but I have a hard time getting it bigger than 4/4 over the following two turns..
I'd highly recommend testing both Wild Mongrel and Werebear for a while to figure out which one works better.
I play the Threshold core and I have 4 Force, 3 Daze, and 4 Thoughtseize. How is that any different from normal Threshold, which has always boasted a postitive combo matchup? Deed oftentimes answers EtW/Zombie tokens in time... and even if it doesn't, I have EE postboard to do that. I also get Cabal Therapy, Extirpate, and even BEB (against Belcher and possibly TES). Honestly, my UGb version typically rips combo apart. The only "combo" deck I have a problem with is burn, where I simply take the loss game 1 and bring in 3 BEB 3 Cabal Therapy games 2 and 3 to hopefully win the matchup.Quote:
You really don't have trouble against combo ? Looking at the list, it seems not so easy...From my experience, seven discard and four Forces give you a decent chance, but it shouldn't be that favorable (also, there are only eight creatures to flashback Therapy).
I only have 8 creatures to flashback Therapy to early on, which is enough early game to rip someones hand apart. Don't forget that Cabal Therapy works really really well when I open with a turn 1 Thoughtseize. As soon as I resolve Intuition, it doesn't matter that I sac'd a guy because I just bring my creatures back. As long as I survive the early game I almost always win the mid-late game. However, I've been considering Duress in the Cabal Therapy spots lately... I'm not sure which card I'd rather have.