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Would something like Phyrexian Processor have a place? Granted, it's 8 mana do make d00d #1, but cranking out 10/10s seems nice if you're not getting to burnt out from Ancient Tombs. Plus, it's an answer to Tarmogoyf lawl and it basically invalidates STP. Oh, and colorless. Thoughts?
Meh, I don't like it. You can't afford to pay much life and it's activation is hefty. Plus, Pithing Needle > Processor. Also, Artifact Destruction/FoW becomes even more of a pain. So no.
I actually like the idea of Processor, but Im not sure what in the deck it could/would replace.
Phyrexian Processor has me thinking.
I don't think I like it. It has too many microscopic drawbacks. It's not red, it's bad for Hellbent since you'll spend your mana making dudes, it eats a ton of your life in a deck that runs Tomb, and it leaves you exposed for a turn after you play it, since you won't get the 8 mana right off the bat. And it turns things like Krosan Grip and Deed and Vindicates into giant Blazes to your face.
I concede it's immensely strong should none of those drawbacks arise, however.
Also, um, Hi-Val? Why does your signature have Feist lyrics?
What if we use a pokemon like torchling? He is hard to kill and able to take out irritating creatures like confidant etc.
Because it's silly : )Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
The 8 mana from Processor is spread out over two turns, much like Intuition/AK. You can also grind out like 4/4s against Goblins and Threshold all day long, which seems nice. I think you'd run it as maybe a 2-of; you definitely don't want to draw multiples, and getting it a little later in the game when the opponent has blown their Vindicates and stuff already seems prime. I guess the calculation is how many activations of it you'd need and at what life to justify paying some life upfront. How many decks will be packing Krosan Grips main? Moreover, how many of them will be casting it through The Bloodening?
I agree that things like Pithing Needle are a problem, but they're a problem against RPD to a lesser extent; furthermore, after reading numerous T8s from all around the world recently, I've come to the conclusion that nobody plays Needle any more : )
Regarding FOW, I don't know how that's relevant. You pay the life when it comes into play, not as an additional cost.
A POKEMON??? I LOLD. But seriously I dont think Torchling is really worth the slot over RPD/Slogger as a finisher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waikiki
I've been eyeing Processor for a while now, though hadn't reconsidered the implications in our new era of Goyf. There has to be a good deck which can abuse it, somewhere*. I don't think Dragon Stompy is that deck; Dragon Stompy wants mindless aggression, not churning out tokens turn after turn.
* unfortunately, it probably has Grim Monolith in it
That's what this deck needs! More POKEMANS!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bovinious
But seriously, Phyrexian Processor seems sub-par. Making big dudes is only okay. If I were to replace creatures in this deck, I'd replace the remaining vanilla beaters with creatures that beat face but also do stuff. Arc-Slogger, for example, is large, but he's also creature removal and direct damage. Magus is strong because he's disruption on legs. Pit-Dragon has evasion.
If we just wanted to play big vanilla creatures early in the game, I think we'd be looking for a deck with Tarmogoyf.
Except that the deck doesn't -run- any Vanilla beaters that don't do anything else. Even Gathan Raiders, who's the best creature in the deck, facilitates Hellbent for his fellow Raiders and Pit Dragons.
Are there any spots in the deck at the moment that you feel aren't pulling weight, or do you feel your lists are optimally tuned? Is there anything that needs improvement? Is this a deck for Serum Powder? : )
Also, Gathan Raiders is like the best White Weenie card ever.
Phyrexian Processor seems to = too much life loss. Not to much, many Fish/Threshold type decks along with Landstill are running EE MB.
Good question Hi-Val. Let's take a look at the Worlds list:
Main Deck
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain
4 Arc-Slogger
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Seething Song
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Trinisphere
3 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
4 Powder Keg
3 Pyroblast
1 Pyrokinesis
2 Rorix Bladewing
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Trinisphere
Nothing really jumps out mainboard as being filler. I personally like to keep the mainboard a tad more flexible by dropping two moons to the board for beaters (Sulfur Elemental for me). Three Songs is interesting since drawing two can often land you in topdeck mode ASAP. The board is where you have the most room to work. I don't see how he's ever beating Survival, or when you would board in Bladewing.
To answer your question, I don't think anything is begging to be replaced, but 2R casting cost beaters are always nice in Chalice Aggro, as is the Evoke mechanic (too bad Ingot Chewer kinda sucks). If a card was printed that was just too amazing not to run, I would probably replace Trini first (well, board it), but I'm not even 100% about that
I have to say I liked Omar Rohner's list best, despite of Ruel winning the mirror in round 13.
I think it's a cleaner list. In the over-all, I'd go with Omar's list. A prove of that is it's record, while Omar went 4-1, Ruel went 2-1-2.
I think that it's impossible for one list to ever be optimal with this deck. Even with all the oblivious statements made at Worlds, the one I attuned to was one of the Brits in the podcast stating how it was made as a Hate deck for the majority of the format. I agree completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by hi-val
In that vein, I don't see how the list will ever be finished. Some metas will require a full set of Blood Moons main deck. Some will be best served with no 3Spheres main. Like all "anti" decks, it can only do well if metagamed properly. The unfortunate thing is that all of this publicity robbed it's other advantage. Even if a player can recognize the basic gameplan of a Rogue deck, with their having zero experience against it, you will often have a huge advantage.
The only difference of opinion I still see is the equipment content, and more disruption vs. more beaters. I think it simply comes down to preference and meta. The Taco list runs a full set of Moons, Jittes, and no Sulfurs. This makes perfect sense, as they don't work well together.
I still like SoFI and Sulfur, as they compliment each other well. While you would always rather have a Jitte on a Pit-Dragon, SoFI makes Sulfur Elemental not only a genuine threat, but a strategic puzzle for your opponent. They have to deal with SoFI pro-actively since they know that they can't easily stop an Elemental from hitting play. And hitting for 7 while drawing extra threats is more than most decks can recover from in conjunction with all of the other disruption you can land.
Without Sulfur, basically running all fatness and Magus, Jitte has a higher value. It's cheaper, which works in conjunction with the larger creatures, and you don't need the constant pump to protect them as much. And of course, SoFI is far worse on a Dragon. Without the uncounterable threat, you have, and need, more room for Blood Moons against control-types. This also has the advantage of more constant threats against Aggro. Larger threats puts them on the defensive more often, which most Legacy Aggro decks can't really do.
Other than that, the mana base is as good as it possibly can be in a deck like this. And aside from Crypts, I doubt any two sideboards will ever miror. Serum Powder wouldn't be bad if it could fit; The deck is pure redundancy. But outside of scouting mulligans, this deck draws surprisingly well. I have never had the slightest hesitation off going to six, and am most often rewarded for it. And god help your opponent if they have to mull. It's almost like facing Ichorid. You might side in all the right answers, but if you don't cast them by turn 1/2, you'll either be locked out of them, or dead.
And on the Processor thing, I don't think it can work. Casting it should be easy, and paying 5-7 life againsty any non-aggro deck would be fine, and probably be a "deal now or lose" situation. The problem would be losing 2 life to cast it, let's say 6 to pay, and then another 2 life every time you activate it. I think that it is likely to be in the Earthquake category. Where it should absolutely fit in the deck, and work very well, but the unfortunate self-damage already incurred through this deck's normal development cannot afford to be added to without very serious consideration.
I've been testing a list similar to Omar's, and several others. I have to say that I really don't like Razorcore, or any other 5 cc creature that isn't Arc-Slogger or Raiders. Razorcore is easy to play, but I find that more than 4 5cc cards puts too much stress on the manabase, and just isn't synergistic with any of the other creatures. I would be losing games I should have won because of him.
I suggest upping the amount of Sloggers to 4, because it's removal, a huge beater and burn in a pinch. I also like upping the 3Sphere to 3, it's relevant against a surprising number of decks, and I'd like to see more of it.
I think Seething song should definitely be a 4-of, because you definitely want it in your opening hand.
Lands
4 Tombs
4 Cities
10 Mountain
Creatures
4 Slogger
4 Dragon
4 Magus
4 Raiders
3 Sulfur
4 SSG
Accel
4 Mox
4 Song
Equip
3 Jitte
2 SoFI
Disruption
4 Chalice
3 Blood Moon
SB
4 Trini
1 Blood Moon
4 WOrd (or Crypt. Meta slot)
4 Pyroclasm
2 Powder Keg
I need to cut a card, but I have been liking the more aggro style with more cheaper threats and more equipment. Trinisphere came out of the main because of this. The only MUs I am concerned about is GY combos. Ichorid specifically. I don't have any of that in my meta so WOrd is more important to me. If breakfast keeps on being played, it may be different.
I also have taken Trinisphere out of the maindeck. I felt it pulled its weight the least and that at the very most I tended to use it as a method of drawing out counters to resolve a Blood Moon. As such I've gone up to 8 Blood Moons. 8 Blood Moons are good. Chalice/Moon is such a great disruption package because so very very few decks aren't completely wrecked by at least one of the two. Trinisphere is versatile, but it only slaughters certain decks. It rounds out my sideboard nicely with Pithing Needle, Tormod's Crypt, and Pyroclasm.
I've also, much to Phantom's delight I'm sure, started running a pair of Sulfur Elementals after Chandra Nalaar is still narrowly proving to be too difficult to cast and all other creatures sucking slightly more compared to the big five. As such, my Equipment split is now alternating between 3/1 Jitte and 2/2 (I think I prefer 3/1, though, as SOFI really does blow on a Pit Dragon.) If Sulfur Elemental becomes anything else, SOFI will probably go back away.
Seriously Taco? I went up to 4 Trinispheres. I'm not sure what your meta is, but they seem on par with Blood Moon in disruptiveness, being actually useful against goblins. It only slaughters certain decks, sure. Let's name them: Threshold, TES, Goblins, CRET Belcher, Burn, Sligh...isn't that the whole top tier, or close to it?
Well, as happy as that makes me, I'm not sure I'd get too attached, assuming this spoiler is correct:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Taurean Mauler
Rare - :2::r:
2/2
Creature - Shapeshifter Rare
Changeling (This card is every creature type at all times)
Whenever an opponent plays a spell, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Taurean Mauler.
As much as we LOVE to stop opponents playing spells, I really don't see that as a problem. I mean, have you ever lost a game where the opponent doesn't play a spell? I guess he's kind of a mediocre topdeck, but this deck isn't in the good topdecking business anyway. This would give us 3 scary as hell 3 drops that the opponent has to get rid of ASAP. Seems nice (if only he were a 2/3 and lived through bolt!)