It must be an outdated question, but anyone could guide me the pros of Fetchland Tendrils against TES? Why Burning Wishes are played over? Thanks:smile:
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It must be an outdated question, but anyone could guide me the pros of Fetchland Tendrils against TES? Why Burning Wishes are played over? Thanks:smile:
IMO, Fetchland Tendrils is more stable than TES, with all the cantrips and tutors. TES, on the other hand, is more explosive, with lots of rituals and bombs.
I guess you could stretch it a bit and say FT is control-combo, while TES is aggro-combo.
TES has access to Burning Wish, which makes it very resiliant. It runs 6 cantrips to your 7. I wouldn't count Street Wraith as a cantrip.Quote:
Originally Posted by kicks_422
The strengths I see with this deck would be fetches, which allows the deck to abuse Brainstorm, Cabal Ritual abuse, and the ability to run Wipe Away. TES is probably faster (haven't tested this but plan to today) with more accel, Burning Wish, and the ability to run a rainbow deck. The decks are really different.
With Mystical Tutors, and possibly with Ponders and Brainstorms, it is. It also neatly comes in as a back-up win condition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jak.
I agree with everything else you said, though.
I was just meaning that it didn't supply any card quality. It goes really well with this deck though.
With TES you have to use your game winning cards in order to answer hate. That is without a doubt the deck's biggest flaw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jak.
Huh? I know what you mean because use Burning Wish hurts when you needed the tutor, but it's the same is for this deck. Do you not use a Mystical Tutor to get Wipe Away?Quote:
Originally Posted by Whit3 Ghost
As far as TES having access to more colors, I don't believe this to be the case. It would be extremely easy for FT to play a manabase of:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Scrubland
1 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
if FT wanted access to someting like KGrip, ETW, and Pyroclasm postboard. Most pilots don't feel the need when constructing their lists, but with 8 fetches and a large amount of cantrips, the manabase is still stable.
Strengths of Fetchland Tendrils:
Fetchlands - Fetches are easily abusable with Brainstorm, Ponder, and Cabal Ritual. Fetches can also find basic lands, enabling the next strength.
Basic Lands - FT can be very deliberate while setting up because its manabase is extremely strong. (I would argue stronger than anything short of Solidarity or UW Landstill.) Basics yield protection from Blood Moon effects and Wasteland, allowing the probing offensive strategy that the deck's pilots are so fond of.
Wipe Away and Extirpate/Death Wish - FT is capable of shutting down several strategies with tutorable singleton bullets in the maindeck. Strategies not answerable from the main are answerable with Death Wish finding the appropriate answer from the sideboard. It's worth noting that with Orim's Chant, Abeyance and Extirpate, it's usually possible to RFG one half to all of an opponent's hard counters before you go off, guaranteeing the resolution of the next Chant effect.
Street Wraith/Ponder/Brainstorm - This deck may not be immediately recognizable, but its cantrip engine should tip you off. This is a combo variant of Threshold. A huge card quality engine allow you to find everything you need in a speedy manner while going off. You win the control matchup by finding chants, abeyances, and extirpates faster than an opponent can match counters.
Serenity - This is a hidden gem that TES is relunctant to play due to additional manabase restrictions imposed by Chrome Mox. Serenity deals with board control elements (from decks like Stax, Dragon Stompy, Loam Control) in an efficient way. The ability to get rid of problematic enchantments like Rule of Law at the same time as Tormod's Crypt is a really big deal for a combo deck. The drawback of not being tutorable by Mystical Tutor is offset by access to the card game one with Death Wish and the cantrip engine.
Customized Spot Removal and Bounce per Matchup - The large complement of bounce/removal spells in the sideboard allows the pilot to select the appropriate solution to each matchup. Wipe Away, while amazing at stalling an attacker for a turn or putting control's bomb back in their hand, is simply not optimal against decks without countermagic. The option is present to bring in cards like Rushing River, Rebuild, Echoing Truth, Chain of Vapor and Pyroclasm as needed.
Just a quick question about Death Wish. What's its main purpose on the deck? Is it a viable way for going off or it's just a nice tutor for answers that you will play before going off?
I just found it a bit underwhelming for going off, there are many situations in which I'd like DW could find me a Tutor/IGG. Is that really important?
I think it was put in as an out to Extirpate and the ability to grab random answers when needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by godryk
Jak's right. There's no SB room for a wishboard, so you basically tutor for a wincon (that's what your wishboard is limited to) or for an answer that you already played before DW was added. The fact that it costs 3 is way to cool against stax decks and CB.
BTW, if you can use enough acceleration, you can use it for grabbing Chant. Rarest situation ever, but wtf.
It also grabs IGG #3 after you have resolved the first two. This requires a bit of mana, but allows you to beat quite a bit of lifegain without actually playing more than 2 IGG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaiminho
What are people's sideboards looking like? It seems like there are currently 4 basic categories of cards in the board:
Wish targets (Tendrils/EtW, Extirpate, Chant, Mage/Teeg removal)
Bounce (Chain of Vapor, Echoing Truth, Wipe Away, Rushing River)
Anti-control (Confidant, REB/Pyroblast)
Anti-prison (Serenity, Hurkyl's Recall, Rebuild)
Are there standard slots that are untouchable? Do you alter the board dramatically based on predictions about the metagame, or just tweak the numbers? Basically, I'm just curious to see how people adjust the sideboard to match their meta.
Your categories are pretty far off. The only things that can legitimately be considered wish targets are Tendrils and ETW, with those being specifically for boarding in against problem matchups (RB Goblins). Extirpate, Chant, and Abeyance are anti-control and anti-combo cards. Sudden Death and Clasm fit pretty well into the bounce category under a new name ("Removal"). As far as my sideboard, right now I'm playing this:Quote:
Originally Posted by b4r0n
4 Serenity
2 Abeyance
2 Extirpate
1 Sudden Death
1 Wipe Away
1 Rushing River
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
With a maindeck that includes:
15 Lands
4 Chant
4 Ponder
1 IGG
2 Tendrils
1 Draw4
1 Death Wish
1 Wipe Away
If I were to build this deck, or at least look into it, what would you consider the "must have" cards?
4 Delta
3 Strand
2 Island
1 Sea
1 Plains
1 Scrubland
1 Volcanic Island
1 Swamp
4 Brainstorm
4 Street Wraith
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Mystical Tutor
1-2 Tendrils
1-2 IGG
3 Ponder
2 Draw4
4 Dark Rit
4 Cabal Rit
4 Petal
4 LED
3 Orim's Chant
1 Wipe Away
My meta looks like:
2-3 Threshold
1-2 Goblins
1 Lands!
1 Dragon Stompy
1 Gbw Survival
1-2 Ichorid
1 Landstill
1 GWb Aggro
+ Some amount of randomness.
What do you people think the open slots should be, considering that I have no access to cards like Grim Tutor, no desire to run Death Wish, and no Tundras? I don't really want to go out and get Tundras, but if one is absolutely necessary, I can get it.
What happened to the Bobs? Not enough suicide-ish decks in your area to justify keeping him there or has he been not strong enough?
Neway, not like it's worth mentioning, but whatever:
I won a small 8 people tournament with: 1 Deadguy, 2 Ugb Thresh, 1 Ichorid, 1 Burn (sucked), 1 Mono Red Sligh (ditto), 1 Dragonstorm (LOL! -- he finished last).
Round 1: Double chant on both games against Ugb Thresh. He couldn't find a CB.
Round 2: Mono Red Sligh. Regular IGG-once combage.
Round 3: Burn. He got the second game from me since I mulled into 5 cards with almost no setup and all I topdecked was Chant (3) and Abeyance (1). I just died, then.
This was the sideboard I carried over:
4 Bob
3 Serenity (boarded 2 in against Ugb Thresh)
2 Abeyance (boarded them all in all matches)*
1 Chant (boarded in against Ugb Thresh)
1 Wipe Away
1 Rushing River
1 Echoing Truth (took MD Wipe Away's slot in counterless matches)
1 Tendrils
1 ETW
* -- Replaced Draw4 and DW since there was nothing better to SB and Time Walking over their sorceries and Pillars would be nicer.
I couldn't find me an Extirpate, so I kept the 2nd Abeyance in. Also, since I helped to assemble both Ugb Thresh decks, I decided not to risk having to wish for Wipe Away in order to get rid of CB game one. It took the 4th Ponder slot.
EDIT - the stuff below:
Tundra is the most important dual for this deck. I basically always fetch it before any other, as it casts my setup and my protection. I can get black for comboing from Petals or from the next fetched land, which will show up after setuping enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental
I posted a skeleton a page or so earlier of the cards that everyone plays with. I don't really understand the aversion to Death Wish. It's really good against anything that isn't burn. Your list looks to be about 59 cards (assuming 2 Tendrils and 2 IGG) which would lead me to suggest going -1 Draw4, +1 Ponder, +1 Extirpate in your metagame. If you're playing against Extirpates, Death Wish will become a lot better. I would probably board the 4th Chant and 2 Abeyance with 4 Serenity, Wipe Away, Rushing River, Confidants, and Extirpates (1-2).
Tundra is required. If you can't get Tundra, play Hallowed Fountain until you can get Tundra. You fetch for it more than any other dual land. Volcanic Island isn't required at all. The only things you'll consider casting in the color red are ETW and Pyroclasm, neither of which would be required in your metagame.
I have played this deck on and off for quite some time now, and I hate EtW. Therefore I play green.
Yearh I know it sounds awful, but I play 4 xantid swarm in the sideboard, and they are really worth against both landstill and thresh (which are both quite a large part of my meta).
My manabase looks like this:
8 fetches
3 basics (island, swamp, plains)
1 sea
1 tundra
1 scrub
1 tropical
And a bayou in the board too. This also helps in matches against any kind of LD.
Besides from the fact that I play green, I also play 4 chant AND 2 duress main. I don't think that 3 chant is enough - at least not in a metagame with blue in it. Of course - if it works for you guys, gogogo! But I have found myself in a lot of trouble fighting off counters with only three cards to hate it.
In many instances you have to play an ill-gotten gains to win. A clever landstill/thresh player nows this, and that will certainly make him counter the chant, so that when your Gains resolve, he will retrieve his force, to murder your infernal tutor. To fight this, you need A LOT of mana... Something I don't find myself having too often.
Anyway I like the deck a lot, and it is so much fun to play. There is something about playing combo and still being able to fight through counters and discardspells and other shizz...
- meanee
Well, not really. Between forces, fetches, opposing Confidants, our Confidants and Wraiths the life total of the opponent is usually something <19. This means that you just have to play 8 spells+Tendrils to win. It's quite easy if you count the opponent counterspell on your Orim and yur cantrips. You can also double tendrils ftw.Quote:
Originally Posted by meanee
I find IGG a great card to speed up the deck in non-counterspell matchups, but I usually go for plan B when my chants get countered. That's why 1 IGG is sided out vs blue decks.
Hi,
I just startes following this tread but i was wondering why so few people play Grim tutor?
Is it because its to expensive or is it just no good in this deck?