Miracle Control

I think that Terminus is too good to not play the entire playset, you end up digging for it quite a lot anyway. Also EOT terminus into jace is insane, thats why I am sure maxing out on Top and Jace is good too.
Also since we are only 2 colored I added a lot more utility lands and went up to the full 24 land count. Only downside with this Manabase is that a turn 2 CB is not as likely anymore. So i cutter CB down to a mere 2.
This is what i would suggest:

3 Snapcaster Mage

4 Sensei's Top
2 Counterbalance
1 Crucible of Worlds

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell
1 Mana Leak

4 Jace, TMS

8 Fetchlands (4 Strand)
4 Tundra
1 Plains
3 Island
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory

What graveyard hate does everyone run? The Bazaar of Moxen list runs the 2 Grafdigger's Cage, but that seems sort of awkward with Snapcaster.

I run Surgical Extraction in straight U/W because of SCM, and a split of Extraction and Extirpate in UWb.

@Hanni: Same here. My metagame is pretty dredge / reanimator heavy. If you went up to 5 graveyard slots, what would your 5th spot? Relic? Crypt?

In older versions I'd go with Relic, but I run Snapcasters now, so I'd go with Crypt.

@Hanni: Have you done any testing with your proposed Terminus list?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyC27

What graveyard hate does everyone run? The Bazaar of Moxen list runs the 2 Grafdigger's Cage, but that seems sort of awkward with Snapcaster.

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I think one hit stuff like Crypt/Relic isn't a good move when you have such a slow clock - you need something that shuts them down, and you're able to protect it.
Cage can be devastating enough that losing a bit of value is no big deal. Wheel of Sun/Moon is also good, and not an artifact.
I'd run either alongside SE

Quote:

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@Hanni: Have you done any testing with your proposed Terminus list?

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A few games, yes. I did a little more tweaking for testing purposes also. I'm at 3 SCM and 3 Jace right now, and I dropped 3 Islands and a Kor Haven for 4 Mishra's Factory. Not 100% sold on the Factories, though I have several reasons for testing them in the current config. However, I am sold on the 3/3 SCM/Jace split.

I'm digging the list alot. The Miracle's are really powerful. Having 4 Terminus is awesome. Regardless if I get one stuck in hand, having 4 means I have more chance of seeing them, and there really is nothing better (removal-wise) than a 1 mana WoG for this deck. I think 2 Angels is the right number too, since you really want to be casting them for at least 4 mana, preferably 5 or more.

Just to make things easier, here's the list as it stands right now:

U/W Control 2k12

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [R] Tundra
4 [UNH] Island
2 [UNH] Plains
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory

// Creatures
3 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage

// Spells
2 [AVR] Entreat the Angels
3 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [IA] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
2 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
4 [AVR] Terminus

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 3 [TE] Disenchant
SB: 2 [TE] Humility
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction

I feel like this list is extremely solid. I mean, I've tuned the hell out of this deck for years, so I've already worked out the majority of the shell long before the Miracle's hit the scene. I firmly believe that 4 Terminus 2 Angels is the correct configuration for the Miracles, and that includes Temporal Mastery not belonging in this deck. In fact, TM is absolutely god awful in this deck, and is much better off in decks like Merfolk, maybe RUG Tempo, and certain combo decks.

Again, not 100% on the Factories yet, but I like how they compliment the SCM beatdown package, and reduce the amount of Angels necessary for a 1-turn combo-esque win in the midgame (which is good, because it potentially allows me to hold UU open for Counterspell or keep a mana open to spin Top if I have a Counterbalance on the board).

3 Snapcasters feels perfect. 4 with only 12 spells to flashback maindeck is overkill, IMO. 3 Jace also feels perfect. My Counterbalance curve is still pretty awesome, with a 12/11 split of 1cc and 2cc, 4 3cc, 3 4cc, 4 5cc, and 4 6cc (albeit 6cc is mostly irrelevant). I still maintain my 2 maindeck answers to resolved artifacts/enchantments/planeswalkers too. Also, Entreat is alot stronger than Lingering Souls was (as well as Sorin/Elspeth), and allows me to remain U/W.

All in all, I'm very pleased with the deck right now.

EDIT: To add more reasoning behind my testing of the Factories...

They are great at blocking Mongoose, especially pre-thresh, which makes them decent against RUG Tempo, despite them having 4 Wasteland and 4 Lightning Bolt as answers. They also work really well with Terminus, since they stick around after each time I clear the board. They can chump to protect a Jace if necessary, and again, they make my backup plan of Snapcaster beatdown more relevant. Also as mentioned, reducing the number of Angels necessary for a 1-turn win is pretty nice too. Since I'm U/W right now, accommodating 4 colorless sources isn't too bad. I have tons of colorless cost requirements to boot. All in all, I'm hoping they pan out well.

And as a pre-emptive disclaimer: Just because I'm running Factories again, does not mean I should be running Standstill too.

I really like the direction this deck is going, I've been looking for such a control deck for quite some time and I think the format needed it as well. Not aggro-control or anything, no SFM to push in the red zone but just pure - counter your spell, wipe the board and win the game - control.

I like your last list Hanni, my current MD looks very similar with just -1 CS -1 terminus +2 pierce and a slightly different manabase (not sure about factory... maybe not the whole playset?).
Regarding the SB, I don't think humility and needle are that good really. I like having 2-3 meddling mage or 1-2 clique, which are both amazing vs sneak & show, a very popular deck atm and one of our toughest MU.

I think if you cut a Terminus, it should be for a PtE, because Hanni's list really relies on Terminus as an early-game removal-spell: apart from the generic 4 StP and 4 FoW there really isn't anything that can deal with an early critter (except Terminus of course). But with 4 Top and 4 BS this is likely not what you want to do.

Also, what's the deal with Spell Pierce? It doesn't really help the early-game, since it can't target creatures.

I don't like PtE MD, although it's decent in the SB. 4 StP + 3 snapcaster + 3 terminus is already plenty of removal though. Entreat can also serve as pseudo-removal later on in the game.
Pierce is great in this deck. It helps us fight the early counter wars (like resolving a CB on turn 3), and retains value in the mid-game by countering big spells that escape CB-top. The diversity of the counter suite is also important with snapcaster (this way you have more options than just counterspell for 1UUU, which isn't always feasible or practical). Same logic than team portugal which splits its removal suite between ghastly demise, go for the throat and dismember. It's also worth noting that pierce is great vs sneak & tell, which as I said is very popular and a bad MU.

Been checking decks for this type, and Miracle Control, as it is commonly called, has been doing well. Here's a link to the latest Superfriends list that got 4th place.

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...0&iddeck=60626

That's the scg list from the previous page. Here's another that made t4 yesterday, though they apparently mixed in some of the sb: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=46503

Spell Pierce sometimes feels like the best counter in the format, but gets bad when games go long, as they often do, even against fast combo.

Anyone else running anything well against sneak and show?

Humility out of the board is pretty boss vs Sneak and Show.

Pithing Needle can shut down Grisel and Sneak, although if you Needle a Grisel, they still have a 7/7 lifelinker.

Jace is still a solid answer to a Show and Tell'd Emrakul, as is Oblivion Ring. Terminus can deal with Emrakul too, as well as Griselbrand (after they draw a bunch of cards).

Honestly though, stopping the Show or Sneak from resolving in the first place is still the best option. StP is pretty lousy in this matchup, since it does nothing to Emrakul and Grisel still draws a bunch of cards.

I've been doing this for now:

-4 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Snapcaster Mage
-1 Mishra's Factory
+4 Spell Pierce
+2 Humility

Surgical Extraction can be decent too, if you can counter their first Show and Tell, or they Intuition for it.

I still find value in Counterbalance in this matchup.

Meddling Mage is a really strong sideboard option. It doesn't have quite as much synergy with Snapcaster as Spell Pierce does, but being able to name Show and Tell and Sneak Attack is pretty damn powerful, and the 2/2 body provides a clock.

Meddling Mage is a bit lackluster against Reanimator and Storm Tendrils matchups, but it's a beast vs Show and Tell and Spiral Tide, so I'm on the fence with it.

Honestly, the black splash for 1cc discard is likely the best approach since its good in control mirrors and combo matches.

There's tons of options for the Sneak and Show matchup, but for now I'm going to stay U/W and use Pierce/Humility.

Hanni- Clique is amazing against Sneak since you can plop it down in response to Sneak/Show and they cannot Misidirect or Pierce it. Humility just beats the piss out of Sneak.

This following list took 60th (of 700+) at the Bazaar of Moxen (report in Spanish @ http://goo.gl/95mUB).
I still like the Shackles he's running, like the increase in win conditions, and am interested in the boarded Seasinger.


UW CounterTop Miracles, by Pablo – 60th place
Business (38)
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
2 Vedalken Shackles
2 Entreat the Angels
3 Snapcaster Mage


Mana Sources (22)
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Fortress
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
5 Island
1 Plains


Sideboard (15)
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
1 Path to Exile
2 Seasinger
3 Meddling Mage
2 Disenchant

Here is a list I played in a local invitational:

4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Ponder


Mana Sources (22)

2 Glacial Fortress
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
6 Island
1 Plains


Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Spell Pierce
2 Disenchant
2 Relic
2 Terminus
1 Devastation Tide


Went 3-0 in the legacy portion of the tournament 9 ( facing Dredge 2-1, U-R burn delver 2-0 and Burn 2-0 )

Like you can see, this deck has no problems with the burn match up or with delver ( no need to dedicate sideboard cards for that match up )

- changes I want to do : I want the full set of Ponders but can't find something to take out ( Ponder was amazing at setting up turn 2 counterbalance locks, shuffling cards that I did not want on top of my deck and just making the deck a lot more consistent in general )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hanni

Temporal Mastery is rediculous. Any deck playing blue should run 4. The card is so overpowered broken that it will not survive the next B&R update. srsly

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Do you stand by that statement? Can we get an updated decklist?

i r srs TM is srs business

I think I would cut 4 Islands for it, it's that good. srsly

Think your pretty overreacting.

Overreacting? You mean someone quoted an out if context statment I made in another thread, which was clearly written with sarcasm, and I'm not allowed to have fun with it? Where's your sense of humor?

P.S. if you thought I was being serious, and English isn't your first language, I apologize.

Having seen a bunch of similar yet different UW-Miracle-Top lists putting up results in the past weeks I think the focus here should be these questions:

- Counterbalance or no Counterbalance?
- SFM or no SFM?
- Eslpeth or more Entreat the Angels?
- Ponders or more business?

I think the threat suite is pretty important because it defines deck's direction. There is pretty much a consensus about the counter and removal suite but each list tries to push it with a different threat after the Terminus, SCM/Swords shenanigans. Cliques, SFM, Elspeth, Entreat the Angels, Shackles can all be valid options but what's the optimum configuration to support the current defensive shell?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bilb_o

Having seen a bunch of similar yet different UW-Miracle-Top lists putting up results in the past weeks I think the focus here should be these questions:

- Counterbalance or no Counterbalance?
- SFM or no SFM?
- Eslpeth or more Entreat the Angels?
- Ponders or more business?

I think the threat suite is pretty important because it defines deck's direction. There is pretty much a consensus about the counter and removal suite but each list tries to push it with a different threat after the Terminus, SCM/Swords shenanigans. Cliques, SFM, Elspeth, Entreat the Angels, Shackles can all be valid options but what's the optimum configuration to support the current defensive shell?

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to answer your questions :

-Counterbalance or no Counterbalance?------- if you have SDT in your deck counterbalance is a must in my opinion ( you use counterbalance in this deck as a pseudo chalice of the void for 1 and 2 )

SFM or no SFM?------- no SFM. Why turn on your opponents removal and on top of that it'S a clunky and slow kill condition


- Eslpeth or more Entreat the Angels? --------- Entreat is the better kill condition ( don'T forget that you can make instant speed angles

- Ponders or more business?---- Ponder. it make's your deck more consistent, shuffles the top 3 cards of your library then they are ''do nothing cards'' works well with counterbalance and lets you dig for answers

Elspeth has its merits, and actually has a lot more synergy with Terminus (and postboard Humility) than Entreat, but Entreat is significantly more powerful. For the same cost as Elspeth, you get two 4/4 fliers. That's pretty crazy. It gets significantly stronger as the game progresses, too... making 4-5 4/4 fliers is nuts. The fact that the tokens have flying is so relevant in the metagame right now with all of the Delvers and Lingering Souls around.

As far as the other wincons are concerned, I'm curious why the deck would need additional wincons. What matchup(s) would SFM improve? Merfolk is no longer seeing play, which was the biggest reason for running it before. SFM is pretty lousy against RUG and Maverick without enough bodies to carry Jitte consistently. SFM also has horrible synergy with Terminus, with or without Batterskull. In fact, running creatures in general is bad with Terminus, but SCM is acceptable because it can act as additional Brainstorms to enable the Miracles in the first place, and its body often acts as removal via surprise blocking.

The same reason why I wouldn't run SFM applies to Clique. Why play an aggro/control version of the deck if you plan on casting one mana Wtath of Gods? When the deck was using Shackles before, the aggro/control plan was fine. With Terminius, it just seems like bad deckbuilding.

I can see postboard Cliques being good vs combo and the mirror, though.

Regarding Counterbalance, the card is still the best stack control spell in the format. It can completely shut down RUG, and can still provide incremental card advantage even against decks out of cc range (like Maverick and SNT). It improves bad matchups without hurting good matchups... and we already run 4 SDT.

I'm also not sure why the deck needs Ponder.

Without the Ponders, Cliques, SFM and Elspeth the deck becomes this:

22 Lands

4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords
6-7 Counters (A combination of Pierce, Snare and counterspell)
3-4 Snapcaster Mage
3 terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
3 Jace, the Ming Sculptor
3 Top
3 Counterbalance

which is around 58 cards. This shell really needs something to bring to the table after clearing the board and push inevitability from that point on. 2 Entreat and 3 Jace isn't enough to be there right on time and I think that's why the deck needs more win conditions. Ponders can be used to find the existing wincons but we are already doing enough searching and I'm not sure if it's going to be what you need a turn after a Terminus wipe.

Edit: If our curve could provide a strong counter-top lock against the field just setting it-up, clearing the board and then searching for the killing blow could've been fine. But we can effectively lock the lower part of the mana curve and opponents can still cast other planeswalkers, Seat Attacks etc. after you clear the board and you go back to start.

got 2 Humility in my mail, gonna test your list hanni. ;-)

actually beating sneak and show seems to be huge in any tournament atm.

what is about those 2 oblivion ring, could you see removing one adding one spell pierce? I know these are your only 3cc spells, but how often did you need them for cb or find them when you need them?

Do you ever miss wasteland? In most decks they are awesome and I love the crucible/mishra/wasteland "combo", you could see fit crucible and maybe wasteland somewhere in those 75?

Bilbo, the list I posted does have additional pressure outside of Entreat/Jace with SCM/Factory. However, I've played Superfriends for long time with only a 2/2 split of Walkers as wincons just fine. Slow control decks with mass sweepers and Counterbalance are inherently grindy. Entreat speeds up the clock a good bit, though.

Also, Counterbalance doesn't need to hardlock someone to be enough. The card advantage between spells like Counterbalance and Terminus put people so far behind that it serves its purpose. If you gas Maverick or SNT out, it doesn't matter if they can sneak something past a Counterbalance at that point since you likely have another answer for it (Counterspell/StP/etc).

The two O Rings are a swiss army knife that can deal with an array of problems. Going with a black splash for Vindicate is better, but weakens the manabase, so it's a judgement call.

Either way, I like having access to them maindeck. They come in very handy very often.

Regarding Wasteland and Crucible, I don't know. The deck cannot support more colorless sources, but having answers to utility lands like manlands and Grove is nice. Crucible could be good, but I'm not sure it's necessary. I guess the best way to find out would be to try it.

Also, Entreat does count as a 3cc for Counterbalance, so I have 4 3cc spells at the moment.

I was testing a variation of this before AR was released and the biggest problem I had was closing out games in time/timely fashion. For reference I stopped testing at 3 jace 3 entreat and 3 factories. I was also toying with 2-3 cliques main to speed up the clock and because they work well with miracles.

Anyway im not a control player by nature so maybe this is just the nature of the archtype but have you guys encountered similar problems since it seems many run even less wincons then what I was testing?

I've been happy with my clock so far, with 4 Factory, 3 SCM, 3 Jace, 2 Entreat. I'm also used to running only 2 Elspeth and 2 Jace in earlier versions of this deck, which was a lot slower. I have closed out quite a few games now with Factory beats getting there while CounterTop and Terminus control the gamestate.

Attended a small 17-18 person tournament last Friday and came in equal 4th-7th. I will post a more detailed post in this entry later but for now here are my views on the above questions:

Counterbalance or no Counterbalance - I see the merits for and against. Counterbalance is great against some matchups and clunky in others. It can be good staying in the sideboard, however I would say yes to keeping them in the maindeck anyway.

SFM or no SFM - definitely no. It doesn't play well with Terminus and we have enough winconditions. I've never wished I had a SFM in my deck. If SFM was to be included, I say cut out Counterbalance for the board instead.

Elspeth or Entreats - definitely Entreats. Entreats provide more power whereas Elspeth leads to more grindy games. Entreats puts away games very very quickly which makes up for the slowness of the deck.

Ponders or more business - my personal preference is 22 lands and no Ponders as we have enough dig/cantrips.

Postboard Cliques - are working well for me.

Mishra's Factory - in my opinion, they are unnecessary and destabilise the manabase.

Wastelands - no, we want land drops not to lose them. Also there are fairly heavy UU and WW requirements in this deck now.

Oblivion Rings - I would rather run the 2 maindeck Spell Pierces, I feel that 3 Terminus is enough to deal with creature decks.

I had issues with the clock though (I was one turn away from winning through Snapcaster beatdown) but that was because I sided out Entreat the Angels. Everytime Entreat resolved, it was pretty much...game over.

My list at the moment is:

1cc (14)
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce

2cc (12)
4 Counterbalance
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Counterspell

3cc (2)
2 Entreat the Angels

4cc (3)
Jace, the Mind Sculptor

5cc (4)
4 Force of Will

6cc (3)
3 Terminus

22 Lands
4 Flooded Strand
6 Island
1 Karakas
2 Plains
4 Tundra
1 Kor Haven
4 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard:
2 Spell Pierce
2 Hydroblast
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Disenchant
1 Terminus
2 Path to Exile
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage

I am extremely happy with the maindeck and sideboard at the moment. However, there are some matchups which I have found we have problems with:

1) Goblins - hence the Hydroblasts
2) Sneak Attack - Hydroblasts and Cliques and Pierces help here, we don't want Sneak Attacks or Show and Tells to resolve. Humility is too slow in my opinion.
3) BUG Control with Deed - haven't worked out this matchup yet, but I haven't been able to win any rounds against this deck yet. They have a better long game than us.
4) Dredge - 4 sideboard hate slots

This is the list that I'm going to be testing. Any comments or suggestions?

Lands (22):
3x Tundra
1x Glacial Fortress
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
4x Mishra’s Factory
4x Island
1x Plains
1x Karakas

Spells (29):
4x Force of Will
4x Sensei’s Divining Top
4x Counterbalance
4x Brainstorm
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Terminus
2x Entreat the Angels
1x Oblivion Ring
2x Counterspell
1x Spell Snare

Creatures (5):
3x Snapcaster Mage
2x Vendilion Clique

Planeswalkers (4):
3x Jace the Mindsculptor
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Side (15):
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Humility
2 Disenchant
2 Spell Pierce
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Terminus
1 Circle of Protection: Red

EDIT: The Oblivion ring is mainly to have another answer when someone Show and Tells as It can get rid of the sneak attack/Emrakul/Griselbrand from my understanding. Humility is an amazing answer especially when playing Factories. All their creatures become 1/1's and our factories are still 2/2. The factories win the game by themselves and Elspeth can also race by jumping soldiers. It comes in when they show and Tell so it's uncounterable. You should try it because when they swing 8 times with an emrakul and then you play a factory and your opponent replies with "I can't beat that" it is hilarious.

Here is the breakdown on countertop flips
One’s: 13
Two’s: 9
Three’s: 5
Four’s: 4
Five’s: 4
Six’s: 3
Seven’s: 0

Humility isn't actually that slow vs Sneak Show. If they cast Show, you get to put Humility into play for free. If they go for Sneak... Sneak costs 4 mana plus 1, so you should have enough time to get it down. They usually won't be going off without protection, which can buy us time to set up stuff.

I'd rather rock Meddling Mage vs Spiral Tide and Sneak Show, but Clique is better against other combo and the mirror, so Clique seems like a solid sideboard option IMO. I may throw a few in my board and see how they turn out.

With so much emphasis on the counter suite (CB etc..), I feel Wasteland should be included over Factory. Why? Cavern of Souls.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hanni

I'd rather rock Meddling Mage vs Spiral Tide and Sneak Show, but Clique is better against other combo and the mirror, so Clique seems like a solid sideboard option IMO.

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When playin Spiral Tide I'd rather face Meddling Mage than Clique as I can Wipe Away the mage and combo out (unless the CB-Top is also resolved) but a draw step Clique is very annoying when you are just about to combo out and Clique forces you to lose either your combo piece or FoW.

Cavern of Souls could be a problem. How much play do you guys think it will see? So far I've only seen it once out of Goblins, but I cut down on Counterbalances for Humility for that matchup in postboard games. Terminus was really good in that matchup too. Factory was still nice as a Lackey blocker, but I can see the merits of Wasteland for sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hanni

Cavern of Souls could be a problem. How much play do you guys think it will see? So faf I've only seen it once out of Goblins, but I cut down on Counterbalances for Humility for that matchup in postboard games. Terminus was really good in that matchup too. Factory was still nice as a Lackey blocker, but I can see the merits of Wasteland for sure.

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I went to Nashville this weekend and it's starting to be seen as a 2-of in Maverick. I didn't see much cavern of souls this weekend and anyways they are almost always cold to an Entreat the Angels or Terminus being cast.

I cant understand why none of you is running the full 4 entreat the angels. You all agree that it is game winning, and it protects Jace like a boss (like 3+ flying bosses actually). It may seems a nonbo with terminus but i never had to sweep a board already dominated by avacyn's girls. In fact it forces the opponent to overextend, and consequently makes terminus a little bit better (a 5 for 2 instead of a 3 for 1 typically). Played as an instant before blockers and end of turn it feels like cheating.

I only run 2 Entreats because 8 Miracles is simply too many. Even with 6, sometimes I have a few dead spells in hand while I'm waiting for Brainstorm/Jace. Terminus is awesome as a 4-of because it costs 1 mana and compliments StP. I really don't want to be casting Entreat for less than 4, and preferably 5+. That means its a mid-late game card, which makes sense to be ran as a 2-of. Early game I want removal and stabilizers. Terminus accomplishes that, Entreat does not. Entreat has bad synergy with Terminus when played aggressively (i.e as a 4-of and casting it for 3 mana). I'd rather cast it and win with it than make 1-2 Angels that may stabilize or may eat removal. That's why I run 2. Although I've considered going up to 3 a few times. But 4 is a bit too much, IMO.

I partially agree with chabi : I went back to 3 entreat after cutting it down to 2 (I saw everyone doing that so I gave it a try). The card just has so much raw power. I also really like the possibility to use it as a defensive tool in the mid-game (spin top, make even 1 token and block delver is already very good) while still having another one for the late-game kill, and for that you really need 3.

I'm still very much undecided on the factory vs waste vs karakas/kor haven vs just more basics debate. They each have their own merits. The last option also allows you to play B2B in the board, which seems interesting although I'm not sure we really want it.

I'm also considering a splash for some more sideboard options, either green or black (although I guess red for REB is also an option). Green gives us krosan grip which seems important for the mirror if this archetype becomes more popular. Black gives us perish which I quite like even with 4 terminus. Hitting teeg (even protected by MoR) is also pretty cool. Plus we get to play some discard for the combo and control MU.