Oh duh extra turn. Whoops. Yeah that sucks. Well maybe they'll go for S&T. Is that a bad MU for us? I might just have to pray I don't get paired about that guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanzoll
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Oh duh extra turn. Whoops. Yeah that sucks. Well maybe they'll go for S&T. Is that a bad MU for us? I might just have to pray I don't get paired about that guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanzoll
Having played the Cloudpost vs Nic Fit matchup from the Eldrazi side a bunch in various configurations over the past months, I can pretty much confirm that the matchup is close to a bye for the 12-post deck. Karakas is actively good for us (since we play the Eldrazi for the triggers anyway and barely care about the bodies, and bouncing a Venser is the opposite of value), we don't care about most permanent based hate due to Repeal, Ulamog and now even Chain of Vapor clearing the room and I don't think I've seen any Nic Fit list that can realistically win a game in which a Primeval Titan hits the board at any time where you don't have a planeswalker ultimate ready to win the game the next turn.
The games I've lost almost always were some variation of Liliana into quick Jace Ultimate/Aetherling beatdown or something quite like that, usually combined with a powerful cabal therapy double hit (either blind+flashback or a double card in my hand on the flashback). I think I have won every single game that did not involve a Liliana. We haven't tested the scapeshift build yet, I can see that having a better shot and a powerful late game that can actually match up, but all 12-post lists have a reasonable amount of countermagic for that in the board. A heavy creature list can also possibly put up enough pressure to do something with that, something that most Nic Fit lists are not that great at usually.
For your specific build I'd recommend trying to get something akin to Deathrite into Finks/Knight into Siege Rhino backed up by some discard and pray. Sideboarding probably depends on what you see game 1. If they are running top still, bring in needle for top/candelabra, if you see Treasure Cruises and Chain of Vapor then don't bother with pithing needle, it'll be a mild inconvenience at best and is not worth the card investment. Abrupt Decay is fine, Deed is fine to force them to commit mana into their artifacts the turn they play them, Deluge is useless, Veteran Explorer are a very strong candidate to be boarded out (Trust me, 12-post gains a lot more from searching two basics than your deck can). You are absolutely the beatdown in this matchup, and lacking access to countermagic makes the gameplan a lot easier to execute on the cloudpost side. If you have an aggressive board presence, bluffing abrupt decay can be worthwhile to stop candelabra into EoT Eye of Ugin untap Eldrazi by a turn or so if you don't have anything particularly strong to do instead.
My recommendation would be to just hope to avoid the matchup. You got to pick the fights worth fighting in your deck space in legacy, and cloudpost is just not a card you can easily beat without heavily warping the basics of what this deck is trying to accomplish.
Edit: Show and Tell is in the deck to be extra copies of Primeval Titan that bait countermagic, SnT for an Eldrazi is a desperation line in most situations and is only ever a real consideration in matchups that are too fast paced to enact the usual gameplan. There's barely anything Nic Fit can do that is scary enough to warrant a SnT for Eldrazi play, and even if you Karakas it then it's not the end of the world as we can and intend to actually cast these Monsters anyway.
Thanks Dave. Prayer is a familiar out to us non-blue players, haha.
Woot, Cliq! Here's ma list. I'm still debating the singleton GSZ, but it's the fifth vet early game and a Tusk later (or Scooze post SB.) I'm also not too sure about sideboard slots. How was x4 DRS maindeck for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliq
22 land
4 Verdant
3 misty
1 delta
2 trop
2 usea
3 bay
1 tower
2 forest
3 island
1 swamp
4x Explorer
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of will
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Pernicious Deed
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Dig Through Time
3x strix
2x Ponder
2x Jace
1x Garruk Big
2x Thragtusk
1x Grave Titan
1x glen elendra Archmage
1x Consecrated sphinx
1x GSZ/glen/clique
2x Vendillion clique (maybe 1 more thief or sower)
x 1 Notion Thief
x2 Flusterstorm
3x Thoughtseize
2x Surgical Extraction
1x E plague
1x toxic deluge
1x scavenging ooze
1x sower of temptation
1x Sagu Mauler
Alright, so I entered a 32-person GPT with the BUG list I've been testing lately. This was the first time I've played the deck in person, and I was missing two out of the three Jace's as well as some sideboard cards. I subbed in an extra abrupt decay and a deed in the main and some stuff I had lying around for the side. I think missing the Jace's only hurt me in a couple matchups, but it felt like it mattered a lot for those.
Round 1 Game 1: Death and Taxes. I won the die roll, played forest and an Explorer and passed. He played a plains and passed. I therapied for a SFM and I think I hit one, then flashed back to take something else. I soaked up damage for two turns while he dumped his hand, and then I deeded it away and followed it up with a Jace and fatesealed him out of the game very quickly.
Game 2 was somewhat similar, except he turn 2 played a revoker naming deed. I think I played a deathrite and he cast stoneforge mystics for the next few turns. I therapied a lot of equipment out of his hand, and then end of turn Abrupt Decayed the Revoker, untapped, and deeded his board away again with 5 or 6 cards in hand to his zero.
1-0 2-0
Round 2: Esper blade. I don't remember details except that I blind-hit some stuff with Therapy and was really feeling the missing Jaces. He won two super grindy games, both of which felt close, and he went on to go 5-0 in the swiss.
1-1 2-2
Round 3: Reanimator. This is pretty favored for me since practically every card in my deck is good against him. Game 1 I got out DRS turn 1 and he got out a turn 2 Grislebrand on the play with Reanimate, bringing himself to 11. I played a Strix to wall him, and he drew a bunch of cards then traded. At this point I had an active DRS, but he had multiple creatures in the yard and cast Exhume to bring back a Tidespout Tyrant. I played out two more Strixes which is not something he wanted to bounce. I used DRS to kill him, getting out a Glen Elendra to sit behind.
Game 2 he got out Tidespout Tyrant turn 2 on the play and I didn't have an immediate answer. He started bouncing my lands so I scooped.
Game 3 I locked him out from reanimating very quickly with DRS. A few turns in, he passed the turn with four cards in hand. I blind therapied for Show and Tell and hit both of them. I quickly got him under a Jace + Glen Elendra lock.
2-1 4-3
Round 4: Omnitell. I didn't know what he was playing and I kept a fairly weak 7 on the draw. He cheated in Omniscience turn 3 but didn't have a follow-up. I couldn't find an answer, and a few turns later he started chaining cantrips for free and found his win condition. I boarded in Envelop, Venser, and Thoughtseize.
Game 2 I had a really great opening hand with Envelop, DRS and Venser. I enveloped his first show and tell, put in Venser to bounce Omniscience off his second, and had him on a fast clock with DRS + Venser beats. He hit all his land drops and hard-cast Dream Halls with only one card in hand. I found a Glen Elendra the next turn and was able to lock him out.
Game 3 was similar to game 2 but I drew multiple Force of Wills as the game progressed, so he didn't have much of a chance.
3-1 6-4
Round 4: I have no idea what this was, some deck with goblins and trinispheres and chalices, but he was 3-1 so I assume he was doing well with it. Game 1 I lost the die roll but kept a great hand with Explorer + Therapy and some action. He played a mountain and passed, so I blind-therapied naming Bolt and saw chalice, magus of the moon, blood moon, spirit guide, trinisphere, and some goblins. He chaliced for one on his turn 2 and followed it up with a blood moon, and I hadn't been able to find a land that fetched for my singleton forest in time. I scooped a few turns later.
Games 2 and 3 I was able to therapy, abrupt decay and deed away his lock pieces one-by-one and eventually get him into a Jace + Sphinx lock.
4-1 8-5
At this point they cut to the top 8, with me in third. My first opponent was playing Burn.
Game 1 he played an Arid Mesa and passed. I played a land, and he cast an eidolon turn 2. I abrupt decayed it when he went to attack, and he threw some spells at my face. I cast a DRS turn 3 followed by a Jace turn 4 and started fatesealing him, forcing him to keep a lot of lands, and then ulted Jace very quickly for the win.
Game 2 I played an Explorer turn 1 which he used Searing Blood on, which was a huge mistake I think. I untapped and cast Glen Elendra with the mana and won the game with like 14 life.
By this point I was exhausted as it was around 1:30 AM. My opponent was playing Miracles. The first game I used DRS to ramp into Glen Elendra, which I did not expect to Resolve. It did, so I followed it up with Jace followed by Sphinx and quickly ended the game. I boarded in a Grave Titan and two Thragtusks and removed the explorers, and replaced the Therapies with Thoughtseize.
Games 2 and 3 he got his own Jaces out and grinded me out in two very long games; the match was easily an hour. This was the matchup where only running one Jace really hurt; I simply did not have enough threats. I also would have been helped a lot by a better sideboard here. The games definitely felt winnable.
Anyways, the deck felt great and really fun to play. I'm excited to keep working on it. The main deck felt correct, but I think there is definitely room to fix some problematic matchups in the sideboard.
I think it's one of the best cards in B/G so you'd have to have a really good reason not to run it. Additionally, we're a ramp deck, and DRS is one of the best ramp creatures in the game. He also fixes your mana, doubles as a threat, and dramatically improves your Dredge, Burn, aggro delver, TinFins, and Reanimator matchups. The downside is that he forces you to make concessions elsewhere, since DRS + deed + decay + explorer + therapy is about all the non-blue cards the deck can hold.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingslayer
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Siege Rhino
1 Academy Rector
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw
1 Restoration Angel
1 Sun Titan
1 Grave Titan
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Birthing Pod
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
SB: 1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Orzhov Pontiff
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Tidehollow Sculler
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Choke
So I got to Pod Finks into Siege Rhino last night on Cockatrice against UR Delver. Felt good, gents. Felt real good.
-Matt
Matt I must say I'm shocked to see you enjoying a 75 without teeg. I understand how hes a nobo with pod and zenith but the card may as well have your face as the art :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
This felt bad. Real bad.
The problem I have with playing a deck like this (that might or might not be effective against UR Delver) is that I feel defenceless against combo. Pretty much the only thing you have is the playset of Cabal Therapy. Playing against this seems like a bye for Storm or Show & Tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Oh, I totally agree. I didn't build this to beat up on combo. When I played Nic Fit more regularly a few years ago, I knew the matchup was never going to be stellar, and I think now with all the Delver in the format, combo is going to have a hard time competing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicar in a tutu
-Matt
Before the archetypical Delver-decks (RUG & Patriot) usually played Spell Pierce. It appears most lists have shaved the spell pierces to include Treasure Cruise. If so, that might make it a little easier for combo, at least the combo decks that are fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Pierce or no pierce, they still have Daze, FoW and a ridiculous amount of card draw and selection. Coupled with a fast clock these decks prey on combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicar in a tutu
On a side note, I managed to live a little dream the other night vs Miracles. I -3'd Garruk, Primal Hunter to draw nine cards off a Kraken from a Kiora emblem :cool: I won that game.
Any thoughts on how the new priest from commander 2014 is going to affect GSZ decks?
Containment Priest
1W
Flash
If a nontoken creature would enter the battlefield and it wasn't cast, exile it instead.
2/2
Elves yes...us no. In fact we may want to run it in white builds....it hates on basically eveevery one of our worst matchups.
Goodbye POD, GSZ, Natural Order, Sneak, S&T, fetch -> dryad and I guess it also affects "blink" shenanigans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Well.
Ouch... THAT is what "containment" means... Jeezz
The card seems very strong. The only deck I can see it fitting naturally into is DnT and a SB card for Esper blade and the ilk, but I'm sure some will adapt. It hoses so many decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanzoll
It is being considered. Teeg is already nonbo in the deck. I see dnt main decking this possibly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
It's a little jarring, but it's not the end of the world. We maindeck a lot of cards that kill it like Deed and Deluge and Decay (unless they have Mom out). It's not really worse for us than Grafdigger's Cage which was already in the format.
I haven't played the S&T matchup, is it bad enough that this is worth siding in? Unlike Teeg, we'd have to run at least 3 sideboard because it's not GSZable itself. Granted, Teeg does nothing vs. S&T. I've been testing Knight, it's OK, but not as helpful as I thought.
She makes a very convincing swap 1-for-1 with the Pernicious Deeds vs combo. It is a little more awkward vs Elves, but Deed@1 is usually good enough there anyway and we have a bunch of other (different) dead cards to take out anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
The Show and Tell matchup is favorable for red versions and blue versions, but trends towards unfavorable for white versions. Elves is unfavorable for all versions, and dredge/reanimator are really dependent on the specifics of your list, although blue tends to trend better than the other two splashes there. It's definitely quite playable for white Nic Fits -- we've always had a tendency of "salt the earth" strategies, going back as far as running Humility in Rector. Yeah, we might be hurt by it too, and not have as much fun as we otherwise would have -- but it hurts you a hell of a lot more.
Just a thought, has there been any interest in the mini-deranged hermit Hallowed Spiritkeeper? Plays kind of nuts late game with Recurring Nightmare, is a good blocker early...not sure what your bad matchups these days are but if you have any graveyard presence it can flood the board all on its own.
I suspect you would just lose to people playing cards that don't require much set up more often than you'd have the awesome payout.
I think this is what I want my sideboard to look like:
2 Thragtusk (burn, delver, miracles)
2 Flusterstorm (combo, miracles)
2 Arcane Laboratory (storm)
4 Thoughtseize (combo, maybe miracles although Therapy or more threats might just be better)
1 Pernicious Deed (fair creature decks)
1 Abrupt Decay (fair creature decks)
1 Glen Elendra Archmage (combo, miracles)
That leaves me with two slots, and I'm not sure what I want. Clique, maybe? Sylvan library for matchups where I don't want deed? The deck seems very strong vs death & taxes, burn, and all combo variants I've tested against, 50/50 with stoneblade lists, miracles, and delver, and only heavily unfavored so far to random stuff that I wouldn't try to fix like Lands.
edit - actually 2x Bitterblossom seems really cute with cabal therapy for decks where I need pressure
You know, I was so gonna post something about how this one C14 card completely wrecks us, but then I read this (and a few other associated posts) and couldn't agree more. Against Show and Tell and Reanimator variants, if we stick this, we get a 2/2 body that shuts down their entire approach. Against Elves, it's more or less stops them from using their own GSZ and NO: they might get lucky of course, but shutting down two of their tutors helps immensely. Against Dredge, well . . . actually, it stops Dredge too! Take that Narcomoebas!Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Note to self: preorder the white one asafp five times.
It seems we get a meta full with Delver-Stuff (thanks Treasure Cruise), Miracles, Death & Taxes (with added Priest-Hate after commander release) and Elves (european meta still more other combo decks like storm etc.).
Nic Fit is a strong choice to fight delver decks, so i thought about a comeback with Punishing Fire (best tool against UR Delver Creatures, Death & Taxes and splashdamage against Miracles or other decks).
// Deck: Punishing Fit.dec (60)
// Lands
1 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Swamp
1 Taiga
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
// Creatures
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
// Instants
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
// Sorceries
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Thoughtseize
// Enchantments
3 Pernicious Deed
// Artifacts
3 Sensei's Divining Top
// Planeswalkers
1 Garruk Relentless (kills stuff, spams token vs miracle etc.)
3 Liliana of the Veil
// Sideboard
SB: 2 Fleshbag Marauder (Creature matchups, but best against S&S)
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast (good vs the blue field)
SB: 3 Slaughter Games
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Sylvan Ranger
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
Against elves the deck might be to slow, but as i explained, elves aren't "dtb" in germany (which is ok, because i also play elves and its nice to dogde mirrors etc.), so Golgari Charm isn't needed.
Some thoughts:
Reclamation Sage, unsure if i need this card, but i like a tutorable Hate if i can't find Deed etc. Also with the new red Walker, Painter and MUD will be played more often i think.
Hunter of the Feels, unsure if two are too much, he dies to bold (and forked bolt) but gains some life and one more body. Against UR Delver (and Burn) maybe 1 Kitchen Finks or 1 Obstinate Baloth is better.
Deed Number, in the past i played sometimes with 2 Deed and 1 Jund Charm, because i liked the surprisse factor with "Instant" blow the field. The tech wasn't good 2014, but now against UR Delver, D&T, Elves it can be good again, because Deed sometimes is too slow.
Sylvan Ranger - can also be a single Deathrite Shaman.
What do you think?
Song of the Dryads 2G
Enchantment
Enchant Permanent
Enchanted Permanent is a colorless forest land.
This seems like a nice sideboard card for various versions. It's good against sneak and show because it hits emrakul and doesn't allow them to draw7 with griselbrand. It also hits sneak attack if they show it in or play it and pass. It's also one of our only answers to cards like dark depths and can also just be an oblivion ring. What do you guys think?
It's cool, but likely worse than Oblivion Ring in the majority of cases. Note that it can't hit Emrakul unless they cast Show and Tell with an Emrakul already in play, for some reason, and you show it in off that. In most cases, this is a Beast Within with a lower downside (the exceptions being Marit Lage and like, Ulamog) but Beast Within has never been close to being on our radar when Maelstrom Pulse, Vindicate, and especially Council's Judgment exist. I'll pass.
Well that certainly changes things. I thought you could attach the aura to the showed creature...Quote:
Originally Posted by MrIggins
Never mind then
@sdmatt in your rector list have you given any consideration to doomwake giant? Im not sure if its just a wet dream but podding out of rector into doomwake and shriekmaw or doomwake and any other enchantment seems like super value in creature matchups. Maybe over the second rhino. Just spit balling.
I went 3-3 at the GPT with this list:
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Siege Rhino
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Thragtusk
1 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Sylvan Library
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Batterskull
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Thoughtseize
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
2 Garruk Relentless
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Pernicious Deed
There were somewhere around 35 players in the trial. The most popular decks were URx delver variants with G the most common splash, I know 4 people were on that (either UR or RUG). There were also 3 D&T players, at least 2 burn, 2 Manaless, elves, 12post, reanimator, a couple BUG delver. Top 8 was Elves, Manaless, Sneak & Show, RUG delver, BUG delver, D&T, UW stoneblade (winner) and 12post. There were no miracles decks in the field by multiple accounts. There was another explorer player on BUG pod with no GSZ.
Rd. 1 vs UW stoneblade (player who won). I won the die roll, went first and mulliganed a one-land hand to VetEx, DRS, GSZ, Bayou x2 and Scrubland. Not bad. I play Bayou-DRS. He plays plains-STP. I draw a land and play Explorer. He plays Tundra and SFM into SoFaF. I rip therapy, play it naming the Sword. He reveals Ponder, Spell Pierce, TNN, 2x delta. I flash back, get lands, he gets 2 island, I name Pierce and GSZ for Kitchen Finks. He eventually finds a Batterskull and my deck does nothing. I know now the right play was to take TNN and GSZ for Deathrite. Oh well, next time. In game 2 I mull to 6 again and the deck does nothing.
Rd. 2 vs UR delver. I win the die roll and go first, but mull to 5. I still win when he gets wasteland flooded. Game 2 he gets double TNN and I can't race or find a deed/deluge. Game 3 I mull to 6 and lose. At this point I'm a little tilted--I am not aggressive with mulligans at all but I had three one-landers and one 6 with 5 lands. After losing every die roll at eternal weekend I won both but couldn't capitalize. Luck not on my side.
Rd. 3 vs UR delver. I win the die roll and go first and mull to 6. Sigh. But the player is unfamiliar with the deck, misses a lot of triggers (I call a judge to teach him to resolve cast triggers before spells), and I win in two.
Rd. 4 vs. Manaless. I win game 1 on the strength of Deathrite yanking all his dread returns before he can find a target. Game 2 he gets there, but game 3 I get double time walk when I choose to go second and he mulligans having no dredgers in his 7.
Rd. 5 vs Burn. Win die roll, find siege rhinos game 1. Game 2 he wins turn 3. Game 3 he mulligans and I pull it out looping Thragtusk with Nightmare.
Rd 6 vs. burn. Win die roll, mull to 6, lose a close one to a sulfuric vortex off the top. Game 2, also very close. I am running him out of gas but sandbagging non-basics to avoid a PoP blowout. Eventually I Therapy him. He responds with a bolt and Fireblast (which I planned to name) putting me to 4. I name Chain Lightning and he reveals PoP and Ensnaring Bridge with 1 land in play. He also has a Lavamancer. So to gain life and keep him off lands I flash it back with Finks, taking Bridge, this was a mistake, I should've taken PoP and run out my non-basics to get Thragtusk with a GSZ I later drew. Without that, I can't win before he tops rift bolt a couple times ftw.
So, I liked the deck. I learned that I have to play therapy a little bit differently in this deck than I have in other, faster Bx decks. But overall resolving Siege Rhino felt great. I didn't really like Primetime, I feel like Grave Titan would be better even if not GSZ-able, but honestly 2 Thragtusk just seems the most right. I remain on the fence about Knight, on the one hand I don't want to be blown out by S&T or Reanimator on the other she doesn't do a ton here.
GB Nic Fit is not dead: List
Congratulations on your results.
Oh boy, Vraska is back (damn I love the card) :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
19 lands 4 vet 3 DRS; I guess the guy pushed it at the extreme limit.
I hope he is reading The Source I wish we could have some kind of report.
Hey, welcome back, buddy.Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
So you ditched the DRS, completely ?
Concerning the list:
1) I might repeat myself (as I often do) and apologies to whoever takes time to read me, but I don't really like "phyrexian tower" in a control shell such as P.Fire. We don't have a way to tutor for it at the very beginning of the game and the explosiveness it brings sometimes does not offset the clunky starting hands you might want to keep BECAUSE of it. In a "crop rotation" stylish kind of Nic Fit deck, it could be an all star. And don't bring the Titan's shenanigans because it does not worth it.
2) 8 - 1 CMC discard (post side) reads -> 14 black sources. I lost so many games (against combo) because I couldn't find a black source. You don't want to mulligan this starting hand (G2 or G3): TS+Vet+CT+ mountain + grove + AD + forest and however, if you don't draw into a swamp by T2/T3, the game is lost.
3) Given the nowaday meta, I would get rid of Titan & 2 towers to lower the mana curve and make your mana base more consistent and reliable.
4) Concerning the creature list:
- Reclamation sage is an all star MD, right now.
- There is too many red spell to stick with 2 Huntmasters. You'll have to make a bunch of tests to select a good replacement body.
- If you cut Kessig, Thrun is no longer needed. Furthermore, Toxic Deluge and Council's judgment have lessened its edge against fair decks where it would have shined otherwise. This is sad but very true. I replaced him with Batterskull because it is as hard to remove (even harder I think against toxic and CJ) and you will eventually draw into it when it matters (mostly mirror control matches).
Tell us how your testing goes against the meta.
I didn't have a lot of practise with P.Fire since few weeks.
Hey guys!
I top 8ed a GPT yesterday going 3-2 in the swiss with the following list:
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Wood Elves
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
2 Slaughter Games
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Burning Wish
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Scapeshift
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Verdant Catacomb
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
4 Taiga
2 Stomping Ground
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Kessig Wolf Run
Sideboard:
3 Pyroblast
3 Thoughtseize
1 Slaughter Games
1 Ruination
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Massacre
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Innocent Blood
1 Scapeshift
1 Pyroclasm
1 Dreadbore
Round 1: Reanimator - Loss (1-2) 0-1
G1: My opponent has Griselbrand and Elesh Norn in play. The Elesh Norn wiped away 2 veteran explorers that gave me enough lands to Slaughter Games Force of Will and to cast Scapeshift for lethal.
G2: Started with 2x mulligans. Turn 1 Griselbrand, I lost due to not getting anything going.
G3: Started with 2x mulligans. Turn 2 Griselbrand followed by a turn 3 Iona on green.
I felt that since this was my first match playing with this deck I didn't know a heck of a lot going on, however, now that I have some games under my belt, I feel the reanimator matchup to go better next time.
Round 2: Burn - Win (2-1) 1-1
G1: I stabilize at 1 life with Huntmaster of the Fells followed up by Thragtusk. Rode these bad boys to victory.
G2: I lose turn 3...oh well.
G3: I am at 7 and my opponent is at 18. I was able to get 7 lands in play and scapeshift for lethal. Close call.
Round 3: B/G Hex Depths - Loss (0-2) 1-2
G1: I mulligan to 6, and my opponent thoughtseizes and IoKs any business out of my hand. He crop rotates for dark depths and drops a hex mage.
G2: I mulligan to 6. I start with a cabal therapy and veteran explorer and ramp into 4 lands, however he thoughtseized huntmaster out of my hand. He assembles depths + hex mage.
Again, I feel like I punted this matchup and could have easily won it.
Round 4: DeathBlade - Win (2-0) 2-2
G1: Very long and grindy matchup. Pernicious deeds cleared away a DRS, SFM, and Batterskull when my opponent was at 32 life. I went old school by dropping Prime time fetching up valakuts and mountains dealing 6 damage and sniping his guys when they come into play. I won a few turns later.
G2: Cabal therapy and veteran explorer do what they do best. I won by scapeshifting for 24. I had to deeds for 3 to wipe away a Jitte, SFM, and a TNN.
Round 5: Death and Taxes - Win (2-0) 3-2
G1: 2x pernicious deeds wiped away his board twice. Thragtusk does some work bringing him down to about 9, scapeshift finishes him.
G2: Pernicious deeds...how I love thee. Wipes my opponents board, huntmaster, thrun, + kessig wolf run = win.
At this point I sneak into top 8 in the 8th seed and paired against a good friend of mine who needed the byes so I scooped him into the top 4. He was on BUG Delver and I know I would have crushed him.
Initial thoughts on the deck:
-I can probably move Slaughter Games to the SB to free up some slots in the main.
-The deck is a blast to play.
-The deck can win out of nowhere (scapeshift) but also has such a large threat density that you are bound to overwhelm your opponent the longer the game goes.
-I still cant decide if abrupt decay needs to be in the 75 anywhere
That GB walker deck is really interesting. Not sure why Culling the Weak over Phyrexian Tower, they seem to do about the same thing except Tower can't be countered. Phyrexian Arena as a draw engine (instead of GSZ) is interesting (and of course necessary with no G threats). I'm not sure I'd have the guts to take it to a tournament around here where there is so much burn but solid finish by him.
I'd say it's a miser's chance for blowout on the turn 2 Obliterator. Being able to jump directly to 4 mana (plus one off your land drop for the turn) means you not only use your Veteran to ramp, but you're dropping a turn 2 obliterator with the ability to pay for a Daze if necessary. Obliterator in itself is an interesting choice and must have been meta dependent - if I thought I'd see a lot of white at a tournament, Obliterator is a tough sell for me, even if it does put them in a tough spot with a single attack. But in a format full of Delver, burn and "fair" decks, Obliterator probably smashes things all day long.Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
Now that Commander 2014 is totally spoiled, has anyone thought about a miser's Titania in their builds? Pod her into play, return a fetch, crack the fetch to find another land and get a 5/3 is pretty solid. If the list was tweaked to abuse that (Wasteland, Crop Rotation) that could potentially be very powerful. Dying to bolt is a hard negative against her, though. Still, seems like something to test out.
If she was an x/4, or (somehow) wasn't a legendary creature // Karakas wasn't everywhere, then we'd probably be talking. As printed, though, she's pretty unplayable imo. If this mythical KotR build ever fully materializes, she's probably a strong roleplayer in that style of deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderKR
Oblierator does seem pretty nasty at the moment.
I think that the thing about Titania is that, in that scenario, your opponent could still respond to the grab land from graveyard trigger and remove her fairly easy without her generating any value. If I were to try her I think that I would like to try and really abuse her, like in the aggressive mining build arianrhod tried to brew, taking then a turn into the lands/eternal garden like you suggested. Still, I have no idea if it would be good enough.
Yeah, totally fair evaluation. Being legendary hurts her with Karakas, but at the same time, if you're running a list meant to abuse her with things like Crop Rotation...why don't we pull our own Karakas into play first? Then not only can we protect her from removal, but we can re-use her ETB ability.
Her being bolt-able is the biggest weakness for me, honestly. Any list I'd run her in would hopefully be able to at least get 1-2 uses out of her before she was killed, but being able to send a bolt to her head just makes her that much more vulnerable. I just thought that, since Nic Fit seems to traditionally have a sort of weak "finisher" game plan, an army of 5/3's would make a pretty good argument for her.
Not to mention that Titania's triggered ability does "target" which is even more a problem with an opposite DRS...Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Unfortunately, I like the flavor but not the taste of this card.
Phyrexian obliterator & phyrexian crusader are pretty well positioned right now.
I did speak few months ago about phyrexian crusader in a deadguy shell.
And my guess is that it could be a strong creature of choice in an Abzan Nic Fit shell, along a strong equipment package & a strong disruption/hatebear package.
This is still possible with Tower unless you play the explorer that turn: VetEx on field, play Tower, sac for BB, search 2 swamps, still have whatever land you played Explorer off of. There are definitely decks that play force, STP and basics though and I don't think I'd want to just jam the Obliterator that way without knowing what's in my opponent's hand. However, he did play 3 Probes in addition to Therapies so that might have not been an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderKR
Obliterator is certainly interesting against the field. You basically have to build your deck around it though and it is weak to force, STP, Terminus, Griselbrand, Emrakul, and you dying before you can cast it. Siege Rhino does enough of what we want that to do, I think, and can be tutored and does something when it ETB, while freeing up deck construction.
3 toughness is a tough sell at 5 mana, even Thragtusk can be beaten. I like the 5/5 trampler that makes your guys 5/5 tramplers a little though since I like having stuff to do with all my excess mana. I also don't like Pod all that much in Junk just because it requires you to have a guy on board. I might test it instead of Recurring Nightmare, though, which has the same issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderKR
Equipment is rough in this deck with Deed... The best card with any infect creature is Kessig Wolf Run. Primetime can grab both that and Inkmoth Nexus and you can win out of nowhere. You can also crop rotate for it or play #Yolo4cNicFit and play KoTR to fix your mana and find KWR while applying "regular" pressure or even playing Crusader as a 4-of. Though again, we could just lose first if we're trying to play more Crusader and less cards like Finks and Rhino that help us stabilize against the Delver decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf