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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Play 4 Cavern! - Card is nuts (note: you can also use it for Revoker if you have more than u need etc.).
-----------------------
I playtest my Ramp.dec (with the little GW-Splash, 2 Brushlands, 1+1 Displacer, 2 World Breaker) the day and i got a nice result so far (9:3):
9 victories (3x Miracle, 1x Mirror, 1x Shardless, 1x MUD, 1x DnT, 1x Storm, 1x Omnishow)
3 defeats (1x Miracle, 1x Elves, 1x MUD)
Some notes:
Miracle (lost the one 1:2) can only win with Moon+Mentor and some of the common support (Terminus, Swords etc.) and i think we see more +2 Moon in most Miracle-Sides after Eldrazi full arrived at Legacy. Good news here: Lands will also be not happy to see that as a common tech, because lands profit most of the time from the fact that no one have good hate vs this matchup.
MUD it was 2:0 and 0:2 pretty much luck based, i faced one Worker T2 with Greaves and 2 Wurmcoil before i have done anything...another game i had Wail for Worker, Displacer for a Blightsteel Boy and won the "Mana race" (we both had Cloudpost^^) with Conduit into Worldbreaker and Conduit into Ulamog.
Elves i lost also 1:2, i knew the deck well enough and Chalice/Sphere will not be GG until you also have Wail for NO (or snipe the single Rec.Sage until he kills your prison stuff with the help of insect).
BUG Shardless (my friend sawatarix piloted it) was very easy. Won the last one with Displacer(!) tapping his dude and attack for the win. All is Dust can also be pretty good if you face Jace, Library and all the colored dudes on the field.
Mirror vs Eldrazi was also very tricky because my opponent had a colorless build with Waste, Oblivion Sower (oh boy was that good vs my Cloudposts.dec^^) and Sword of Fire and Ice. The last game i faced a Smasher with Batterskull (!) i only won this with a timely World Breaker and follow up with a bigger Game Plan (Ulamog).
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You can see all the matchups at my signature link (with german notes), build 3 is the Ramp.dec with minor GW Splash.
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EDIT: Barook - deeper GW build:
4 Tomb, 4 Temple, 4 Cavern, 3 City, 3 Eye, 4 Brushland, 2 Canopy, 1 Karakas and 4 Mox or 4 Talisman would be my first sketch.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
Food for thought: But why not go a different route? A B/W Helm Combo/Eldrazi hybrid:
Wait, what? Why? Because we'd be playing Rest in Peace already? Playing an otherwise useless card like Helm is a bad plan unless it shores up matchups that we struggle with while simultaneously not hurting the already-strong ones too much. RiP-Helm does nothing for the Eldrazi plan, and the Eldrazi plan does nothing for RiP-Helm.
I agree with you on Cavern, though. I see no reason to cut those. Everyone's mana base should probably start with 4 Temple, 4 Tomb, 4 City, 4 Cavern, 2-3 Eye, and fill in slots from there. Shaving Tombs or Cities is potentially viable with specific reasoning, but in general this is where I believe the mana should start.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I've been building this deck as well.
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Endbringer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Warping Wail
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
1 Jitte
2 Grim Monolith
1 All is Dust
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
SB:
2 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 All is Dust
1 Tsabo's Web
1 Powder Keg
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Trinisphere
1 Crucible of Worlds
Before, I played an older colorless version with 23 lands and found myself constantly stuck. Playing 25 lands feels much better. It's got a strange, standard vibe where you want to be hitting your land drops because the spells get much better with mana and inevitability with Eye of Ugin. Also, Urborg fixes so many problems, especially when you have the Ancient Tomb/Ancient Tomb scenario and need to stop killing yourself for mana.
I went 3-0 on Tuesday night.
R1: RUG delver. G1 - sat on two lands and died. G2 - T1 Ancient Tomb Jitte. T2 - EOT warping wail for a spawn and equipped Jitte. Jitte and Smasher close that out. G3 - he mulled to 5 and couldn't handle T1 Mimic, T2 Cavern into Endless for 3, T3 TKS.
R2: D&T. Not even close as Chalice for 1 shut off StP, followed up by Endbringer and Warping Wail taking out his x/1s and Ratchet Bomb swept up his 2CC cards.
R3: Miracles. Not an Entreat build and he got annihilated. Ratchet for 1 followed by Chalice for 1 to get rid of Tops and Swords. He couldn't handle Endbringers. Theoretically, Miracles has a rough time given the Caverns, Warping Wails (hits Terminus and Clique), and inevitable Eye of Ugin. It ends up being Blood Moon or bust.
Afterwards, we were discussing what the bad matchups were. Imperial Painter is #1 due to T1 moons and Ensnaring Bridge. Lands is #2 given that there is no interaction with Marit Lage except for Endbringer. Chalice for 1 stops Crop Rotation but he can still crush. MUD is a toss-up since Wurmcoil is a problem but I have Endbringers which can hold them off. I've been looking into Icy Manipulator or even Amber Prison in the SB just to deal with those problems.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Just played 2 matches vs. Dredge. CotV @1 and Rest in Peace are pretty much the best cards against them. I like the white splash, although sample size is not enough to determine how reliable it is to cast RIP. Had 2x T1 RIP, so there's that. If RIP becomes a SB staple, expect them going after it with Therapy, though.
@MD.Ghost: I cut 1 Brushland for the 3rd Eye and see how it goes. Current manabase looks like this:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Brushland
3 Mox Diamond
3 Talisman of Unity
I boarded out 3 Cloudpost (too slow) and brought in 3 Karakas to ensure enough white mana.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gkraigher
You are an agro creature deck, with some high CC cards (4 and 5). I would play Mishra's Factory over Wasteland all day in a deck like that.
I also agree that it is WRONG to not have 4 Caverns in your 75. They don't have to all be main deck, but they all have to be there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
Imho any less than 4 Caverns is just plain wrong in the Legacy metagame. It lets you disregard your opponent and happily play your stuff. It's one of the main strenghts of the deck that gives blue decks alot of trouble.
Ok, so maybe my mana base does need reworking. I do think if I had Factory I definitely could've beat Miracles yesterday (I drew a few Wastelands which did nothing, my opponent ended the first game on two), not to mention more Caverns would've allowed my Forced TKS to get through. I think the first cut from my list will be the Urborgs. I've never been too impressed with them and the full Ugin's Workshop doesn't come up enough between 2 Urborgs and 3 Eyes. It also can randomly fix your opponent's mana too!
So cutting those, that can now give me:
Lands: (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Wasteland
I do still think Wasteland has merit. Blowing up Ports (and occasionally Wastelands) has been especially valuable to me so far, as this lets you go about your casting of big spells unhindered. Fatties backed up by Thorns and Wastelands has also been pretty strong so far. I think two is a reasonable number.
I do want the fourth Cavern, but I really don't know what to cut. It can be either the 3rd Eye or fourth City, in my opinion. I think I like having three Eyes though - although drawing additional is the worst - because it really can lead to your most busted nut draws. City has been usual great or pain in the ass when its your only Sol Land on turn one.
I'll tinker with both cuts and see which feels best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iostream
Pithing Needle is probably not good enough versus Miracles in my opinion. There are many draws where you get wrecked by things besides Top. I'd rather have the extra Endbringers to maintain threat density so that you can pace your threats effectively. It also shoots down Mentor tokens, albeit slowly.
How was Simian Spirit Guide for you? Did you feel like you needed the extra velocity? In my testing, at least, it seemed like I didn't really need it, and would prefer to have some higher impact cards in those slots to make the deck a little more resilient to disruption.
As for Blood Moon, there's always Mind Stone, but that card is so durdly and feels wrong to be playing in an aggro shell. More proactive answers are extremely expensive and/or unreliable: All is Dust, Oblivion Stone, Spine of Ish Sah, Coercive Portal, Ulamog, etc. And finally, last and definitely least, there's basic Wastes, and if red Stompy decks and Painter variants are so omnipresent in your meta that we're talking about basic Wastes, I'd probably play a different deck.
You are probably right about Needle, especially since I have multiple Revokers in the main already. I really dislike Endbringer though, despite how powerful his abilities are. His mana cost is quite difficult to reach at times and he's pretty slow to get online - though I'm happy to be convinced otherwise. I might try Coercive Portal for that grind slot instead.
Simians, at least I feel, are necessary to have 12 ways to have turn 1 Chalice @ 1 (or Thorn on turn 1). I experimented with all matters of acceleration but surprinsingly the Monkey ended up being the best. Simian is also randomly castable under a Blood Moon and via Caverns when you need to get the Monkey beats in.
To be honest, I don't think we should care about Blood Moon in these faster builds. You should already be on the board swinging by the time it comes down from most fair decks (see my 2nd match against Grixis). Sure, t1 Blood Moon from Painter or Dragon Stompy is a beating, but those decks aren't popular enough for us to worry about. In the GW and RG builds I've been experimenting with, the stupid Talismans look to be a nice way to get around Blood Moon and cast Grip out of the sideboard I guess, which is probably necessary since these builds are slower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
badmojo
I've been building this deck as well.
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Endbringer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Warping Wail
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
1 Jitte
2 Grim Monolith
1 All is Dust
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
SB:
2 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 All is Dust
1 Tsabo's Web
1 Powder Keg
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Trinisphere
1 Crucible of Worlds
Before, I played an older colorless version with 23 lands and found myself constantly stuck. Playing 25 lands feels much better. It's got a strange, standard vibe where you want to be hitting your land drops because the spells get much better with mana and inevitability with Eye of Ugin. Also, Urborg fixes so many problems, especially when you have the Ancient Tomb/Ancient Tomb scenario and need to stop killing yourself for mana.
I went 3-0 on Tuesday night.
R1: RUG delver. G1 - sat on two lands and died. G2 - T1 Ancient Tomb Jitte. T2 - EOT warping wail for a spawn and equipped Jitte. Jitte and Smasher close that out. G3 - he mulled to 5 and couldn't handle T1 Mimic, T2 Cavern into Endless for 3, T3 TKS.
R2: D&T. Not even close as Chalice for 1 shut off StP, followed up by Endbringer and Warping Wail taking out his x/1s and Ratchet Bomb swept up his 2CC cards.
R3: Miracles. Not an Entreat build and he got annihilated. Ratchet for 1 followed by Chalice for 1 to get rid of Tops and Swords. He couldn't handle Endbringers. Theoretically, Miracles has a rough time given the Caverns, Warping Wails (hits Terminus and Clique), and inevitable Eye of Ugin. It ends up being Blood Moon or bust.
Afterwards, we were discussing what the bad matchups were. Imperial Painter is #1 due to T1 moons and Ensnaring Bridge. Lands is #2 given that there is no interaction with Marit Lage except for Endbringer. Chalice for 1 stops Crop Rotation but he can still crush. MUD is a toss-up since Wurmcoil is a problem but I have Endbringers which can hold them off. I've been looking into Icy Manipulator or even Amber Prison in the SB just to deal with those problems.
Interesting build, not sure if I like mixing the Mimic package with higher-end threats like Ulamog as well as 3Ball which can non-bo with your Eye. I found in most aggro shells you don't need Ulamog, chaining Smashers with your Eyes is perfectly reasonable. You've really featured Endbringer as one of your primary threats in this list though - how has he been?
Also Painter is not just #1 because Moons and Bridge - Painter himself also shuts down the majority of our mana base. I think the matchup is actually completely lopsided as they have so many cards which win the game on the spot (and tutors to go find those cards).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
After some playtesting, "Eldrazi with Hats on" is just too much of a pile to be any good. :rolleyes:
Back to the way better G/W build.
@MD.Ghost: How would you build the GW manabase without post? As I said, I'm unimpressed the Cloudpost manabase and a third Eye would be nice.
I ended up with:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy (or 1 Horizon Canopy, 2 Savannah)
1 Karakas
And:
4 Talisman of Unity
I trimmed down Cities a fair bit since the GW builds are a bit less explosive (at least, mine is) and the disadvantage of City is noticeable as the games go longer.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Been thinking about this deck since the spoiler and lurking this thread since page 1, play a good bit of mud and stompy decks definitely interested. Haven't been able to play much legacy lately but plan on doing some testing with this deck this weekend. List is still a little up in the air
Creatures
3 phyrexian revoker
4 endless one
4 eldrazi mimic
4 thought-knot seer
4 reality smasher
Protection
4 chalice of the void
3 trinisphere/thorn of amethyst
3 warping wail
2 dismember
Mana
3 mox diamond/simian spirit guide/elvish spirit guide
4 cavern of souls
4 city if traitors
4 ancient tomb
4 eldrazi temple
4 mishra's factory/wasteland
3 eye of ugin
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
SB
Tbd
Thoughts
Trinisphere v thorn- way I see it is, trinisphere is far better against most of the field but really hurts casting the eldrazi early, mox and dismember, and for the most part isn't castable on t1(unlike most red stompy lists that will run 4 ssg and 4 mox). Thorn, on the other hand, doesn't slow down delver/goyf/elves/d&t nearly as much.
Mox diamond v spirit guide- neither produce colorless mana, diamond sticks around but is weaker without crucible since most of your spells are high cmc without eye in play(and pitching that second/third land to get your t1 chalice/sphere into play feels real bad when you get wasted and don't draw more lands). spirit guide is instant(great against daze). Simian can actually be cast with an active blood moon and can carry equipment if you play them. And yes for those of you playing green, don't forget that you've got a spirit guide as well, although not castable under blood moon without talisman/mox mana.
Wasteland v factory- I think this is more of a meta call and maybe some combination might be right.
Right now leaning toward
3 trinisphere
3 simian spirit guide
4 mishra's factory
Maybe try and squeeze 2 wasteland into the SB.
Thoughts/tips?
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I just went 4-0 with this list...
Mana - 24
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Crystal Vein
4 City of Traitors
Disruption - 12
2 Warping Wail
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void
Creatures - 24
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Sideboard - 15
3 Sun Droplet
2 Warping Wail
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Gut Shot
2 All is Dust
3 Faerie Macabre
I've been very pleased with the deck's performance, the curve is about as perfect as it could be.
I'm planning to take the same list with a sideboard identical to the list above to a Modern Tournament this weekend with the tweaks...
+22 Cards
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Mutavault
2 Wastes
2 Dismember
-22 Cards
-4 Ancient Tomb
-4 Crystal Vein
-4 City of Traitors
-4 Thorn of Amethyst
-3 Conduit of Ruin
-1 Ulamog's Crusher
-1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
-1 Phyrexian Revoker
Both Sea Gate Wreckage and Conduit of Ruin + Ulamog proved to be a god send vs. Miracles. I think it's a mistake not to play them. Conduit has been so solid that I'm considering cutting a Revoker to play the 4th Conduit.
Sea Gate Wreckage is a far better way to combat counterspells than Cavern of Souls imo. The main cards that you don't want getting countered, Chalices and to a lesser extent Warping Wails and Revokers aren't protected by Cavern. In fact, Cavern makes it such that those key cards almost always end up being the ones that get countered. Wreckage on the other hand blows the game wide open and outright wins games all by itself if your opponents manages to stabilize while taking you to top deck mode.
Eye of Ugin is too explosive when paired with Mimics and Endless Ones not to play as a 4 of IMO. The occasional hands you have to mulligans are more than made up for by the hands that have you dropping down anywhere from 2-5 2/2s and 2/1s on your very first turn. Likewise, the acceleration that City of Traitors and Crystal Vein provides are well worth having to sac them in order to let you empty out your hand a full turn or two earlier.
Urborg effectively lets Ugin generate 3 mana, while also letting you use Ancient Tombs to make mana without costing you life.
Thoughts?
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
Weird but seems ok, i never returned World Breaker. If i casted him he won ne the game.
If i understand the Judge words about Temple right, we can still use it for the Ability of Eldrazi Displacer or? For me this is important, because Displacer is very good with Temple so far.
EDIT:
If you like ramp, need a good Graveyard Hate and some adjustments vs Mirror/Gofy/SneakShow etc. you can keep it also simple (instead of headaches with a colorfull manabase^^).
Quick and solid "Black Build" would be (remember my core build):
Lands: 4 Tombs, 4 Temple, 4 Cavern 4 Cloud, 4 Glimmer, 2 Eye, 2 Urborg, which means a good mix between tempo (Urborg + Eye), protection (Glimmer and Urborg+Tomb) and ramp (the only way to abuse stuff like Ulamog, Eye, All is Dust etc.).
Creatures: 4 Seer, 4 Smasher, 3 Endless One, 3 Reshaper, 3 Revoker, 1 Ulamog and 1 Metamorph so you gain some Disruption with Revoker, the ability to go over the top with Ulamog and 1 Metamorph for more Smasher, Seer or stuff from your Opponent.
Rest: 3 Monolith, 3 Mind Stone, 4 Chalice, 1 Sphere, 4 Wail, 2 All is Dust, it is a good amount of ramp (and protection from moon and manadenial), removal and prison elements (and protection from combo).
Side:
2 Dismember (work with Urborg, offers T1 help and kill Gofy, Smasher etc.)
2 Endbringer (some lategame stuff that will also help vs SneakShow, Mirror and other builds with big creatures)
4 Leyline of the Void (simply the hardest stuff vs Graveyard decks, counterproof, hard to remove, turn 0)
3 Ratchet Bomb (wipe the field between Dismember and All is Dust)
3 Thorn (Combo and Burn)
1 Tsabo's Web (if Lands or Manadenial from DnT is a problem)
It should work well enough, Metarmorph is the only "can be anything else element" here (can also be Conduit of Ruin, Endbringer etc. but Metamorph will also adress some problems if it hits the field, i mentioned one game with copy Jitte from opponent, equip to Smasher and Win^^).
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
Play 4 Cavern! - Card is nuts (note: you can also use it for Revoker if you have more than u need etc.).
-----------------------
I playtest my Ramp.dec (with the little GW-Splash, 2 Brushlands, 1+1 Displacer, 2 World Breaker) the day and i got a nice result so far (9:3):
9 victories (3x Miracle, 1x Mirror, 1x Shardless, 1x MUD, 1x DnT, 1x Storm, 1x Omnishow)
3 defeats (1x Miracle, 1x Elves, 1x MUD)
Some notes:
Miracle (lost the one 1:2) can only win with Moon+Mentor and some of the common support (Terminus, Swords etc.) and i think we see more +2 Moon in most Miracle-Sides after Eldrazi full arrived at Legacy. Good news here: Lands will also be not happy to see that as a common tech, because lands profit most of the time from the fact that no one have good hate vs this matchup.
MUD it was 2:0 and 0:2 pretty much luck based, i faced one Worker T2 with Greaves and 2 Wurmcoil before i have done anything...another game i had Wail for Worker, Displacer for a Blightsteel Boy and won the "Mana race" (we both had Cloudpost^^) with Conduit into Worldbreaker and Conduit into Ulamog.
Elves i lost also 1:2, i knew the deck well enough and Chalice/Sphere will not be GG until you also have Wail for NO (or snipe the single Rec.Sage until he kills your prison stuff with the help of insect).
BUG Shardless (my friend sawatarix piloted it) was very easy. Won the last one with Displacer(!) tapping his dude and attack for the win. All is Dust can also be pretty good if you face Jace, Library and all the colored dudes on the field.
Mirror vs Eldrazi was also very tricky because my opponent had a colorless build with Waste, Oblivion Sower (oh boy was that good vs my Cloudposts.dec^^) and Sword of Fire and Ice. The last game i faced a Smasher with Batterskull (!) i only won this with a timely World Breaker and follow up with a bigger Game Plan (Ulamog).
-----------------
You can see all the matchups at my signature link (with german notes), build 3 is the Ramp.dec with minor GW Splash.
-----------------
EDIT: Barook - deeper GW build:
4 Tomb, 4 Temple, 4 Cavern, 3 City, 3 Eye, 4 Brushland, 2 Canopy, 1 Karakas and 4 Mox or 4 Talisman would be my first sketch.
You seem to be having great results with your deck, could you post your version 3 decklist?
Thank you ;-)
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
Weird but seems ok, i never returned World Breaker. If i casted him he won ne the game.
If i understand the Judge words about Temple right, we can still use it for the Ability of Eldrazi Displacer or? For me this is important, because Displacer is very good with Temple so far.
Sure, Displacer works, since it's a colorless Elrazi in play, as the Temple demands. Problem is that World Breaker in the GY is a not an Eldrazi, but an Eldrazi card.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CovenantElite30
You seem to be having great results with your deck, could you post your version 3 decklist?
Thank you ;-)
Post#244:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post930434
Overall a bit slower with Cloudposts and Ramp (so clearly no Mimic Aggro) but with more options for Mid-Late Game, which means Turn3+ (i had games with Ulamog or All is Dust T3, but sure it will only work if your Opponent doesnt disrupt your Mana^^).
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
First tops record on TCdecks:
Michele Delpiazzo
Deck Name: Eldrazi Illimitati
Creatures [24]
2 Endbringer
3 Endless One
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Instants [4]
1 Dismember
3 Warping Wail
Artifacts [8]
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
Lands [24]
2 Mishra's Factory
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19547&iddeck=148785
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ZEROorDIE
Been thinking about this deck since the spoiler and lurking this thread since page 1, play a good bit of mud and stompy decks definitely interested. Haven't been able to play much legacy lately but plan on doing some testing with this deck this weekend. List is still a little up in the air
Creatures3
phyrexian revoker4
endless one4
eldrazi mimic4
thought-knot seer4
reality smasherProtection4
chalice of the void3
trinisphere/thorn of amethyst3
warping wail2
dismemberMana3
mox diamond/simian spirit guide/elvish spirit guide4
cavern of souls4
city if traitors4
ancient tomb4
eldrazi temple4
mishra's factory/wasteland3
eye of ugin1
urborg, tomb of yawgmothSBTbd
Thoughts
Trinisphere v thorn- way I see it is, trinisphere is far better against most of the field but really hurts casting the eldrazi early, mox and dismember, and for the most part isn't castable on t1(unlike most red stompy lists that will run 4 ssg
and 4 mox). Thorn, on the other hand, doesn't slow down delver/goyf/elves/d&t nearly as much.
Mox diamond v spirit guide- neither produce colorless mana, diamond sticks around but is weaker without crucible since most of your spells are high cmc without eye in play(and pitching that second/third land to get your t1 chalice/sphere into play feels real bad when you get wasted and don't draw more lands). spirit guide is instant(great against daze). Simian can actually be cast with an active blood moon and can carry equipment if you play them. And yes for those of you playing green, don't forget that you've got a spirit guide as well, although not castable under blood moon without talisman/mox mana.
Wasteland v factory- I think this is more of a meta call and maybe some combination might be right.
Right now leaning toward
3 trinisphere
3 simian spirit guide
4 mishra's factory
Maybe try and squeeze 2 wasteland into the SB.
Thoughts/tips?
Seems good and similar to a lot of the aggro lists popping up already. I personally favour Thorn because the non-bo with Eye is real, but as you said, metagame considerations can alter this. In terms of acceleration, I think Simian generally gets the nod because Blood Moon considerations, but as you mentioned Elvish Spirit Guide is an acceleration option in World Breaker builds that can actually fix mana! Although we've been seeing most lists along those lines go a bit "bigger", I don't think a faster a World Breaker list is out of the question with Elvish Spirit Guide incorporated - it just means most of your flex lands need to become green lands (Grove, Brushland, Karplusan Forest etc...). Could be interesting, but I'm not sure what this would look like and whether it's just inferior to the lists with Talismans, 12Post and etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Captain Hammer
4-0 where? Would love to hear matchups and so on about this list - it looks like it has a lot of very interesting technology to incorporate!
No Wasteland. No Cavern. Four Crystal Vein. Four Eye of Ugin. Two Sea Gate Wreckage?!
Breaking all the apparently set-in-stone Legacy hallmarks of Stompy, I'm not sure whether you're a mad man or a genius Captain Hammer. Considering your results though, I'd lean towards the latter. I love your list's dedication to the balls-to-the-wall Mimic and Endless Ones on turn one draws, though in my testing I've found at times, if not followed up by further pressure, these draws can get quickly disassembled by a timely Terminus or even a Stoneforge into Batterskull. The insane nuts sometimes just aren't as insane as they are in Modern due to the power level of the format. I also find it interesting that not only is your list going "faster" with all the 20 Sol Lands, but it's also going "bigger" because... With 20 Sol Lands, why not, I guess. As you said, Eye and Sea Gate give you a lot of inevitability. Ulamogs Crusher is also sweet - but are not the cheaper alternatives like Endbringer a little better? To be honest, I'm not a fan of the Ulamog package in the aggro lists, since I feel you can lean on Eye to simply find chains of Smashers against Miracles, but I'm definitely willing to give it a go. Again, your deck has a lot more mana than typical aggro lists so I'm interested to see how the duality of the deck functions. I'm afraid of natural drawing my Ulamog and getting quite a clunky hand though.
And on Sea Gate Wreckage I'm very excited to test it, especially since it seems to be perfect in a list like this that's main strength seems to be its ability to spew out its hand very quickly - which again makes me wary of having Ulamog and co. in there clunking up draws where I need to get Hellbent.
But yeah, Captain Hammer your list is sweet, I will definitely be testing it.
Oh yeah, Eldrazi has 4-0ed on MODO by Tenjum (I'm guessing this is Andrew Tenjum, but I'm not even sure). His list is:
Creatures: (23)
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Artifacts: (11)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
3 Trinisphere
Land: (26)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
Sideboard (15)
3 Ashen Rider
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst
Interesting things to note:
- Mox Diamond as accelration, 3Ball as addtional lock pieces
- Endbringer as a big Eldrazi of choice
- LODESTONE GOLEM as another dude to pseudo-lock. I'm not sure how much I like this... casting Lodestone only to delay my Smashing... Ehhhhhh.
- 4 Eye.
Nonetheless, lots of interesting lists going around everyone, lots of interesting techonology to test.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I see some lists running maindeck Ratchet Bomb. To those pilots: how has it been? It seems like a pretty bizarre choice at first glance to me, but I can kind of see how most decks have at least something that gets hit by it?
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Storm match-up seem pretty decent so far, but what do we want to set our Chalice to? @0 or @1? And how do other disruption cards in our hands influence this decision?
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
This is what my brother has been testing so far:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/364273#paper
Creatures (24)
4 Endless One
3 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endbringer
1 Void Winnower
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Spells (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Grim Monolith
1 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Warping Wail
2 Trinisphere
Lands (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
Sideboard (15)
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Null Rod
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Spatial Contortion
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
Some cards are there because he only owns one Thorn of Amethyst and three City of Traitors so there would be changes if he had everything he needed. The exact list would look like:
Creatures (24)
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endbringer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Spells (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Grim Monolith
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Warping Wail
Lands (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
Sideboard (15)
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Null Rod
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
We tested with Death & Taxes, Miracles, and Goblins all pre-board.
Unsurprisingly, Death & Taxes is really difficult for Eldrazi to beat, though it has a better matchup than MUD or other Prison Stompy variants. The only card D&T cares about is Endbringer, which is absolutely insane. If you aren't playing four Endbringer already I would strongly consider playing four - it's insanely powerful and shores up otherwise poor fair matchups. Even after Ulamog exiled my Jitte and Serra Avenger and he attacked me, I won. You can't really do much about fliers (Endbringer can pacify or ping Flickerwisp, Warping Wail exiles Flickerwisp, Ulamog cast trigger) so an equipped Serra Avenger can just be GG.
Miracles gets crushed. They need Terminus, but Eye of Ugin doesn't care about Terminus, so they get crushed. They need STP, but Chalice doesn't care about STP, so they get crushed. They need countermagic, but Cavern doesn't care about countermagic, so they get crushed. Miracles dies, the end.
We thought Goblins was going to be a poor matchup, but it was closer than we thought. Eldrazi can actually be faster than Goblins with Mimic into Thought-Knot into Smasher and Warping Wail can take care of an early Lackey. Endbringer is a house and is necessary to win if you want to survive in the mid-late game. Not seeing Chalice, 3-sphere, or Thorn makes the matchup about 50/50, probably more like 53/47 in Goblins favor. Having any of those in your opener is just really bad. Once you get rid of those post-board, the matchup might even be slightly favorable for Eldrazi.
Deck is pretty good overall. With some tuning it could get even better. What it's really missing is a three drop. Matter Reshaper just isn't that good, but I think is a necessary evil for now. Thorn of Amethyst is definitely better than Trinisphere in this deck especially because 3-Sphere can actually be difficult to cast even on Turn 2 because of Eye of Ugin and only two Grim Monolith. Thorn is just the more consistent lock piece. Don't play Void Winnower, it's a win more card, but Ulamog is actually quite potent as a one of. Ulamog is by no means necessary, but is certainly a viable choice. Wasteland is actually a bit awkward cause the only land you care about is Rishadan Port and there were times I wished it were a Crystal Vein, an additional Mishra's Factory, or even Blinkmoth Nexus to get some defense for fliers. Again, play four Endbringer in the 75.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NeckBird
Unsurprisingly, Death & Taxes is really difficult for Eldrazi to beat, though it has a better matchup than MUD or other Prison Stompy variants. The only card D&T cares about is Endbringer, which is absolutely insane. If you aren't playing four Endbringer already I would strongly consider playing four - it's insanely powerful and shores up otherwise poor fair matchups. Even after Ulamog exiled my Jitte and Serra Avenger and he attacked me, I won. You can't really do much about fliers (Endbringer can pacify or ping Flickerwisp, Warping Wail exiles Flickerwisp, Ulamog cast trigger) so an equipped Serra Avenger can just be GG.
D&T is far from easy, but I don't think it's that bad for us. That was my impression when playing against it yesterday and I'm a D&T player myself.
Your build has quite a few cards that are very weak in the D&T match-up (Endless One <--- Flickerwisp; they don't care about Thorn; City being a major liability here). Endbringer is something D&T doesn't want to face, but it's slow as fuck. Have you tried to playtest with Jitte yet?
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
Storm match-up seem pretty decent so far, but what do we want to set our Chalice to? @0 or @1? And how do other disruption cards in our hands influence this decision?
I think it depends heavily on your hand. I would value Chalice on one the highest, but I would play it on zero if I could also use my mana to play other disruptive elements. Heads up that you can play a Chalice on one and then follow it up with a Metamorph Chalice for Chalice on zero... Sort of cool.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
D&T is far from easy, but I don't think it's that bad for us. That was my impression when playing against it yesterday and I'm a D&T player myself.
Your build has quite a few cards that are very weak in the D&T match-up (Endless One <--- Flickerwisp; they don't care about Thorn; City being a major liability here). Endbringer is something D&T doesn't want to face, but it's slow as fuck. Have you tried to playtest with Jitte yet?
Haven't tested Jitte yet, I'm sure it's very good though. It didn't help my brother than I've been on D&T for 3 years (just got Judge Ports too so now the deck is 100% foiled out) and he was just learning to play Eldrazi. Endbringer is slow, but D&T is one of the slowest decks in the format. He would've lost 6 or 7 turns earlier if it weren't for Endbringer. I think it's the best card versus D&T easily being able to ping X/1's, be a card advantage engine, or at a minimum hold back an attacker. Probably put the matchup at around 55/45 in favor of D&T where MUD and other Prison Stompy decks are about 60/40 or slightly worse than that.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Endbringer would definitely be amazing vs D+T if you can get it into play, but do you guys have trouble vs 4 Port and Wasteland?
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
All is Dust crushes Death and Taxes, and if you can get the mana to cast Endbringer you can get the mana to give your opponent AIDs.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
All these cards seem great against D+T, but it just feels like the way you lose to them is Port/Wasteland.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Patrunkenphat7
I think it depends heavily on your hand. I would value Chalice on one the highest, but I would play it on zero if I could also use my mana to play other disruptive elements. Heads up that you can play a Chalice on one and then follow it up with a Metamorph Chalice for Chalice on zero... Sort of cool.
I would definitely put Chalice on 1 first against Storm, just because of the quantity of cards it hits. Brainstorm, Ponder, Probe, Dark Rit, 6-8 discard spells, maybe some number of Top/Preordain.
LED is a more powerful card than the 1 drops, and Petal is very good too, but it's 8 cards vs. 25ish. Beyond countering nearly half the deck, Chalice at 1 robs them of information about your hand (since they can't Probe/discard spell you). Allows for your Warping Wails to blowout an Infernal/Past in Flames/Petition.
Post board, I would also consider playing a second Chalice on 1 before a Chalice on 0, because of Abrupt Decay.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ChemicalBurns
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Captain Hammer
4-0 where? Would love to hear matchups and so on about this list - it looks like it has a lot of very interesting technology to incorporate!
No Wasteland. No Cavern. Four Crystal Vein. Four Eye of Ugin. Two Sea Gate Wreckage?!
Breaking all the apparently set-in-stone Legacy hallmarks of Stompy, I'm not sure whether you're a mad man or a genius Captain Hammer. Considering your results though, I'd lean towards the latter. I love your list's dedication to the balls-to-the-wall Mimic and Endless Ones on turn one draws, though in my testing I've found at times, if not followed up by further pressure, these draws can get quickly disassembled by a timely Terminus or even a Stoneforge into Batterskull. The insane nuts sometimes just aren't as insane as they are in Modern due to the power level of the format. I also find it interesting that not only is your list going "faster" with all the 20 Sol Lands, but it's also going "bigger" because... With 20 Sol Lands, why not, I guess. As you said, Eye and Sea Gate give you a lot of inevitability. Ulamogs Crusher is also sweet - but are not the cheaper alternatives like Endbringer a little better? To be honest, I'm not a fan of the Ulamog package in the aggro lists, since I feel you can lean on Eye to simply find chains of Smashers against Miracles, but I'm definitely willing to give it a go. Again, your deck has a
lot more mana than typical aggro lists so I'm interested to see how the duality of the deck functions. I'm afraid of natural drawing my Ulamog and getting quite a clunky hand though.
And on Sea Gate Wreckage I'm very excited to test it, especially since it seems to be perfect in a list like this that's main strength seems to be its ability to spew out its hand very quickly - which again makes me wary of having Ulamog and co. in there clunking up draws where I need to get Hellbent.
But yeah, Captain Hammer your list is sweet, I will definitely be testing it.
Nonetheless, lots of interesting lists going around everyone, lots of interesting techonology to test.
Thanks Chemical Burns. I play at a store in Ohio. I prefer not to go into greater detail online as I value my privacy but I would be happy to PM you more information if you would like.
Returning to a discussion of the tech, I agree that Matter Reshaper seems to be the weakest Eldrazi in the lists and I haven't missed cutting it at all. My mana base is very tilted towards even casting cost threats hence it's emphasis on playing 2cc, 4cc, 6cc along with a singleton 8cc and 10cc threats. I would love to play Artisan of Kozilek or Void Winnower in lieu of Ulamog's Crusher but a 7cc/8cc Eldrazi in this slot is a much safer choice to go with than a 9cc card.
The 3cc slot only becomes relevant in the occasions that one of my lands gets Wastelanded and I end up stuck with a sol land paired with a Sea Gate/Urborg/Crystal Vein. For those situations, I quite like the idea of playing a 2cc/3cc artifact that reduces mana costs by atleast 2.
I'm looking into cutting an Endless One and the 2 Ratchet Bombs (never bad but rarely game breaking) in order to accomidate either...
Worn Powerstone
Urza's Incubator
in order to increase the capacity to support the higher curve threat base that I vastly prefer to Matter Reshaper.
I have also considered Kozilek's Channeler (equivalent in cc to a 3cc artifact under an Eye of Ugin) and Grim Monolith (though I prefer a more consistent mana source to best support a high curve threatbase to another one time use mana source).
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
After some playtesting, "Eldrazi with Hats on" is just too much of a pile to be any good. :rolleyes:
Back to the way better G/W build.
@MD.Ghost: How would you build the GW manabase without post? As I said, I'm unimpressed the Cloudpost manabase and a third Eye would be nice.
At least for the fast aggro Eldrazi plan, the Eyes are critical.
If you look at the Modern decks, they rely on the fact that Eye makes all the cheaper Eldrazi into Zoo-quality beaters. Skyspawner is great when it's a 2/1 flier and a 1/1 with upside for U; Matter Reshaper stops sucking donkey butt when it's a 3/2 with upside for 1. (And yes, I think Matter Reshaper is a far weaker card than a lot of people. It gives you card advantage, but only if your opponent can't afford to ignore a 3/2. Big freak'n deal).
The advantage to the Cloudpost plan is that it frees you up from having to rely solely on Eldrazi.
In either case, I'm not sure what you gain by giving yourself another 4 - 6 mana to pay in order to stick pants on something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Admiral_Arzar
All is Dust crushes Death and Taxes, and if you can get the mana to cast Endbringer you can get the mana to give your opponent AIDs.
But Smallpox only costs BB...
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Updated my decklist to reflect the changes of trying out a Cloudpost-less manabase:
GW Eldrazi Ramp 2.0
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Brushland
1 Karakas
1 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Talisman of Unity
1 Mox Diamond
2 Endless One
2 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Conduit of Ruin
2 World Breaker
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
3 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 All Is Dust
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Karakas
4 Rest in Peace
Some notes:
- Umezawa's Jitte was added in the MD as a lifegain card and to dominate creature match-ups. I cut 2 Mox Diamond for that.
- Mishra's Factory could be any land, but I think it might go along nicely with Jitte if you can't stick one of your Eldrazi.
- Moved 1 Karakas to the main, which allows place for a third Jitte in the board for the matches where we really need it.
- Jitte should help us to handle creatures better, so I replaced my Spatial Contortion with a third Ratchet Bomb. It's just way too useful to only run two copies in my opinion.
- Talisman/Mox split could go either way. I tried to keep at least one Mox since it's nice ramp sometimes and with only 1 copy, you'll never run into situations where you draw multiples.
- I might consider Kor Haven as a 1-of. Not sure if it can deliver, but might be cool.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
You're kind of missing the point of Matter Reshaper, and that's the risk of looking at something that works in modern and trying to apply it to legacy - and it's good to see viewpoints like MaximumC's. As much as being critical advances decks, one thing missing is identifying what is causing the misjudgement (and offering new productive direction/s to pursue).
I think a ton of new Legacy decks suffer from "modern mentality," which in this case has people saying "Matter Reshaper is good because it is a 2-for-1." This is Legacy folks, we have most of the cards ever printed - why are we caring about indiscriminate value when we should be more concerned with breaking the underlying mechanics? We're how many pages into this thread and no one has noticed something like Brainstorm in response to Matter Reshaper's trigger, drawing 3 new cards and putting a manifest target like Phyrexian Dreadnought on top of our library, directly under Cloudform seems strong...cause like that's Ancestral Recall with upside. Obviously not going to work in a chalice deck, but let's at least make an attempt to identify key interactions before Tarmogoyf'ing out and saying "yep, it's just plain good."
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fox
You're kind of missing the point of
Matter Reshaper, and that's the risk of looking at something that works in modern and trying to apply it to legacy - and it's good to see viewpoints like MaximumC's. As much as being critical advances decks, one thing missing is identifying what is causing the misjudgement (and offering new productive direction/s to pursue).
I think a ton of new Legacy decks suffer from "modern mentality," which in this case has people saying "Matter Reshaper is good because it is a 2-for-1." This is Legacy folks, we have most of the cards ever printed - why are we caring about indiscriminate value when we should be more concerned with breaking the underlying mechanics? We're how many pages into this thread and no one has noticed something like
Brainstorm in response to Matter Reshaper's trigger, drawing 3 new cards and putting a manifest target like
Phyrexian Dreadnought on top of our library, directly under
Cloudform seems strong...cause like that's Ancestral Recall with upside. Obviously not going to work in a chalice deck, but let's at least make an attempt to identify key interactions before Tarmogoyf'ing out and saying "yep, it's just plain good."
I agree with this sentiment, but not the analysis.
As you pointed out, I take a very dim view of Matter Reshaper. It's a 3/2 for 3. If anyone bothers to blow it up, it replaces itself as a card, and depending on what you flip, it might also replace the mana you spent to cast it. That's great, but in the meantime all you did was play a 3/2. if you're playing Eldrazi lands, maybe it only cost you 1 mana to play, effectively. So, we're talking about a Wild Nacatl or Kird Ape that replaces itself. That's not a bad card, but it's also not near as broken as the other Eldrazi, and so I think it only has a role in balls-to-the-wall aggro lists.
Your example of using Brainstorm to maximize Matter Reshaper is a fine incidental use of the two cards, but a bad basis for a deck. If you didn't have reshaper, you can do exactly the same thing -- put Dreadnought on top -- and just cast the Cloudform. Costs you 1UUU versus 3C, and you didn't have to resolve a creature. More importantly, what kind of deck is going to be running Brainstorm, Cloudform, Dreadnought, and Matter Reshaper, anyway? Not a good one!
The broader point of being able to use Brainstorm to eke value out of a Reshaper that is destined for the bin, however, is a good one. I don't think it's got much combo potential, but if your Reshaper is dying anyway, a Brainstorm can ensure that you get the maximum value -- a card and functionally three mana -- out of the exchange. When you add to that the fact that Reshaper only matters if you're in a really dense aggro deck, I start to ask what kind of aggro decks run Brainstorm, anyway. That'd be Merfolk and Delver, basically. Merfolk has no interest in a 3/2 for 3, but Delver? It might actually be interesting to see if it would be possible to merge Eldrazi aggro and some flavor of Delver.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaximumC
At least for the fast aggro Eldrazi plan, the Eyes are critical.
I think Eyes are critical in general to the strategy in general, not just Hyper Aggro. It's another painless Sol Land for most intends and purposes and gives us the edge in long, grindy games once you start to fetch the big boys. Given that Wasteland is a thing in Legacy, two copies don't feel satisfying to me.
@Fox: Matter Reshaper is worse in Legacy than Modern. Bolt is the most played card in Modern, while Legacy has quite a bit of removal that dodges its trigger clause (StP, Terminus, Jace, etc).
On a slightly different note:
- Played against a Miracle player on Cockatrice with a weird build (Daze, Wasteland - Mentor build maybe?).
- I have Displacer and TKS on the field and pressure his life totals
- He casts Humility. I follow up with World Breaker to exile his Humility (cast trigger ftw), swing, put him to 4.
- He SDT's for Brainstorm to set up Terminus. Activates SDT during my turn, casts Terminus, I Wail, swing, win. Salt ensues. :laugh:
God, I love this deck.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
I think Eyes are critical in general to the strategy in general, not just Hyper Aggro. It's another painless Sol Land for most intends and purposes and gives us the edge in long, grindy games once you start to fetch the big boys. Given that Wasteland is a thing in Legacy, two copies don't feel satisfying to me.
@Fox: Matter Reshaper is worse in Legacy than Modern. Bolt is the most played card in Modern, while Legacy has quite a bit of removal that dodges its trigger clause (StP, Terminus, Jace, etc).
On a slightly different note:
- Played against a Miracle player on Cockatrice with a weird build (Daze, Wasteland - Mentor build maybe?).
- I have Displacer and TKS on the field and pressure his life totals
- He casts Humility. I follow up with World Breaker to exile his Humility (cast trigger ftw), swing, put him to 4.
- He SDT's for Brainstorm to set up Terminus. Activates SDT during my turn, casts Terminus, I Wail, swing, win. Salt ensues. :laugh:
God, I love this deck.
main deck and side list you play? thanks
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
@barook neat sequence of plays; definitely a good deck for trolling miracles players (true of most sol land/chalice decks given their weird mana curves).
As far as Legacy removal goes, most of it is pretty suspect. What I mean by that is if a hypothetical opponent isn't playing creatures and it turns said removal into dead maindeck cards, it seems pretty sub-optimal. It's definitely a personal playstyle preference, but personally if removal isn't bi-modal, I'm just not maindecking it. That's why creatures like Matter Reshaper are exciting; you're not confined charm-type cards or turning removal into burning opponent's life total. Now you've unlocked a third form of bi-modal removal precisely b/c no matter what deck your opponent is on you can always kill your own guy - and if they try to exile, you've constructed a deck that can respond by sending it to the graveyard instead.
It's actually kind of humorous when Legacy is broadcast and no one talks about the 4x StP in every white deck, but the moment a delver list has a single copy of Darkblast or Disfigure maindecked it's somehow the biggest talking point ever :laugh:. Now imagine how much more sense either of those pieces of black removal becomes when you run a guy like Matter Reshaper. Your examples of exiling removal in Legacy is valid, but tempered by the fact that Matter Reshaper probably comes with a smarter removal package. Terminus is good against any critter on the board, but miracles in general can't beat "bad" [high] mana curves - missing out on what will be a blind flip in this deck as designed seems inconsequential. A resolved 3/2 is still a game-ending threat as far as miracles is concerned, and one they really can't afford to address through creature combat.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
First impression of Mishra's Factory has been pretty good so far. Bonus points for trolling Miracles even harder now. This is getting "12-Post vs Miracles" Tier lopsided.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caprino
main deck and side list you play? thanks
It's on the same page and three posts about the post you quoted. You should be able to solve this. :really:
Edit: Second impression of Mishra's Factory is still pretty good. Seems really worth it.
I've been thinking about cutting Ulamog from the maindeck (and move 1 copy to the sideboard - maybe). I've played quite a few games the last few days and I cast it once after tutoring it up against Miracles. In all other cases, it was a 100% dead draw. The only reason why I haven't cut it yet is because I don't know what else to put it. Maybe another Conduit or World Breaker? Endbringer? Something completely else, like Batterskull? And what to cut the board to put Ulamog in?
Also going to test -1 City -1 Factory for +2 Sea Gate Wreckage. Factory isn't underperforming, I just want to see how Sea Gate performs and it seemed like the most logical cut.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Hey everyone
since I started to build this eldrazi deck, I had 2 concerns:
First: an opponents goyf/gangler can still be a big problem
Second: with Dismember/surgical extraction in my sideboard and ancient tomb in main, life can be very short
And now, that Iīm not playing the post ramp anymore, the problems are even bigger, bacause of the lack of glimmerpost
Here is the solution: Basilisk collar
a 1 mana drop, that allows even your small cretures to kill a goyf. additionally you gain life. Imagine a turn 2 TNS equipped with collar in turn 3. And it canīt be handled by Needle or revoker like Jitte.
But the most amazing thing is the combo with endbringer. Because of the deathtouch and the untap ability you kill 2 creatures til your next untap step. :-)
And it is a big advantage in mirror matches.
Would appreciate your feedback.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
josch6083
Hey everyone
since I started to build this eldrazi deck, I had 2 concerns:
First: an opponents goyf/gangler can still be a big problem
Second: with Dismember/surgical extraction in my sideboard and ancient tomb in main, life can be very short
And now, that Iīm not playing the post ramp anymore, the problems are even bigger, bacause of the lack of glimmerpost
Here is the solution: Basilisk collar
a 1 mana drop, that allows even your small cretures to kill a goyf. additionally you gain life. Imagine a turn 2 TNS equipped with collar in turn 3. And it canīt be handled by Needle or revoker like Jitte.
But the most amazing thing is the combo with endbringer. Because of the deathtouch and the untap ability you kill 2 creatures til your next untap step. :-)
And it is a big advantage in mirror matches.
Would appreciate your feedback.
Collar clashes with Chalice @1. I would rather run Jittes and maybe even a Batterskull instead.
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Yes, youre right. I play 1 collar and 1 jitte. Thats absolute accetable.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Played two matches vs. Reanimator. Karakas definitely pulled its weight here and stays. Displacer won a pre-board game by beating down and having double activation up against Griselbrand.
Rest in Peace was too slow and thus never relevant, though. Not too sure what to think about that one, since it should be good enough in other match-ups like Lands or Dredge. Also ruining Goyfs.
Edit: I don't think there are many situations where Sea Gate would be useful in my build since my hand is rarely empty. So I'm going back to +1 Factory (so good) and a single Kor Haven for testing purposes. Stopping random fatties or annoying flyers while tapping for mana sounds good to me, plus it doesn't leave blockers behind like Maze of Ith.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Looks like eldrazis are leading the Swiss after 4 rounds in the TOP euro scg series right now.
Edit: Not playing any nonsense like Collars, Kor Havens or even Jittes.
Edit2: Jitte in SB, though
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hopo
Looks like eldrazis are leading the Swiss after 4 rounds in the TOP euro scg series right now.
Edit: Not playing any nonsense like Collars, Kor Havens or even Jittes.
Edit2: Jitte in SB, though
Where can I found that? Are they streaming it?
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hopo
Looks like eldrazis are leading the Swiss after 4 rounds in the TOP euro scg series right now.
Edit: Not playing any nonsense like Collars, Kor Havens or even Jittes.
Edit2: Jitte in SB, though
Is there tournament coverage online? If so can you link? Thanks!
Edit: I think I found it: http://www.twitch.tv/mtgquality
Edit again: They said there were only 2 Eldrazi decks at the event, and they are doing poorly...
