Misdirection is probably a better option than Divert as it's "free" so we don't need to leave mana open in case of a hymn.
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Misdirection is probably a better option than Divert as it's "free" so we don't need to leave mana open in case of a hymn.
I am not UR delver player myself, but against Elves and D&T I would recommend 2x Rough // Tumble in the SB. 1of Sudden Shock or Jitte if you want to deal with Mother of Runes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Tempel
If you are expecting creature decks like D&T, I would recommend TNN in the main instead of Clique. TNN is a blowout against D&T.
Hey guys. When I first started playing legacy almost 4 years ago I had UR delver. I got in the bad habit of selling out and buying into other decks repeatedly and each time losing out on money. I've had Maverick for a few years which I enjoy but I want to cast bs/fow and maybe have time for food in between matches.
I really like what seems to be the general style of having a very low curve and using prowess creatures to turn cantrips into damage.
The list I am going to run is pretty similar to what most are playing but I'm trying to figure out a flex slot right now. Many people play a miser Thunderous wrath/TNN/reveler in this slot.
I was curious as to your guys thoughts on a singleton fire/ice? Is anyone playing this card?
Is it just to slow and the utility not good enough. I thought it seemed like an okay choice to tap down one of their blockers, get a prowess trigger and draw a card? Maybe tap a sol land against show and tells upkeep to buy a turn. Fire can pop a DRS/blow up annoying things against elves and DnT?
I'm just curious if it's an okay card to include or if reveler/TNN is really that much better.
Thanks guys.
Fire/Ice has been on sideboard lists but personally I find it too slow. Even in the situation where you tap a show and tell land you slowed them down but also yourself and unless you cantrip into a force it hasn't really helped you.
I think you ideally want more damage in any flex slots.
new list today with 3 Soul-Scar Mage 5-0 mtgo [https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/637131#paper].
Anyone testing with this card?
Soul-scar mage seems good at turning combat math on your side. If they have a 4/5 goyf and you have a 1/2 prowess mage one bolt before damage to the goyf and your mage eats the goyf. Mage with grim lavamancer is also quite fun.
I don't really like this card too much. It is realistically a slow Monastery Swiftspear. Its ability to shrink stuff like Gurmag Angler or Tarmogoyf certainly has merit, however I just don't think it matters too much. Since you are running 3-4 Stormchaser Mage and 4 Delver of Secrets and maybe 1 True-Name Nemesis, Tarmogoyfs and Gurmag Anglers are only relevant when they are beating you down or blocking your Monastery Swiftspears. I just don't think that the -1 -1 ability of Soul Scar Mage warrants a slot in this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by kamikaze360
Yeah I am pretty sure the guy didn't play with Soul-Scar Mage because of the -1/-1 counters but rather because its basically like Monastery Swiftspear #5-7. The deck does operate better imo when it drops a threat turn 1 and the additional 1-drop prowess guy gives it a better chance of it. But I haven't tested it all but I do know the games I tend to lose are hands that are a bit slow without turn 1 pressure..
4 Delver of SecretsQuote:
Originally Posted by kamikaze360
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide
3 Soul-Scar Mage
That chalice, though...Quote:
Originally Posted by CabalTherapy
If Chalice is slammed turn 1 or 2 through Daze/Fow and without Smash we are probably (though SCM and PoP *can* still get us there) not winning anyways. Interesting discussion regarding Soul-Scar Mage at least.
Does anyone stream UR Delver on Twitch or on a You Tube channel? I have done some preliminary searches and come up with blanks. I enjoy watching other people play and feel it helps me understand the deck better.
That's not acceptable, though. I've won through chalice often with prowess triggers off Stormchaser. You just have to be smart about how you play it. Diversify your threats.
I tried this list at my local. Soul-Scar mage didn't seem good. I also didn't play any Goyf/Eldrazi deck where the ability might be relevant, but even vs those decks he doesn't seem better than Stormchaser, which can attack past their board and has haste. This is a burn deck and playing permanents that don't do damage immediately feels bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by kamikaze360
So has anyone ever tried splashing black for Cabal Therapy? It seems incredible easy to do and it seems it would also shore up the combo match-ups which aren't a walk in the park. I would probably run Young Pyro in addition to SCM anyways. The prowess guys really want proactive disruption and Therapy is just that.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Badlands
1 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
4 Delver
4 Swiftspear
3 Stormchaser Mage
3 Young Pyro
4 of everything
2 PoP
SB:
3-4 Therapy
Game1 against all kinds of combodecks is to try to race them with at best one active Force in hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by kamikaze360
Game2/3 you can still play a wide variety of hate in U, R, or colourless, that's why I am not a fan of B and CT in this deck, also making the main worse with YP.
Ah and btw SCM usually stands for Snapcaster Mage I'd say. :cool:
How has Harsh Mentor been for you all? I was so excited for it before the top ban. Testing for SCG Louisville and havent had the time to play much so looking for some of input.
Haven't tested this card at all because it doesn't fit in this deck. It's neither a beater nor a secure way to deal damage and that's what the deck doesn't need.Quote:
Originally Posted by gotchadanno
Playing Harsh Mentor lets you dive into realms of value creatures, midrage action, and so on and at this point UR starts losing against so many other strategies.
I guess it's an 2 off SB option but then again I am pretty sure there are better cards.
Mentor is more of a Dragon Stompy creature.
I think if diving top hadn't been banned then harsh mentor should definitely be in the 75 somewhere. Now I think it's more dependent on your local meta. If you have a lot of people using activated abilities then have one or two in the side seems fine. Like he should hose d&t hard, also potentially useful vs lands stoneblade and the many decks using DRS.
new list 5-0d MTGO today. Notables include 2 Bedlam Reveler, 1 Preordain, No Fireblast maindeck.
SB no creature sweepers, 0 Surgicals.
[http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ue-2017-05-16]
Maybe this deck doesn't care about this interaction, but I just realized that Swiftspear/Soul-Scar survive Rough//Tumble and Pyroclasm.
I feel like that's ripe for abuse (although maybe not in this deck) especially with Soul-Scar who can turn all that damage into shrink-effects, nerfing Mr. Goyf/Angler/etc pretty good. Additionally, it shrinks the likes of Leo, Goose, or other 3/3s that would otherwise be able to block you reasonably.
On the Scar v Swiftspear debate; meh? Swiftspear dropped on T1 deals a mere 1 extra damage over the game, with none of the accidental utility. Swiftspear dropped later may grow a bit and that could be important for "out of nowhere" damage, but Delver isn't out-of-nowhere damage and you wouldn't cut him.
Soul-Scar really just needs to be treated as Taylor Swiftspear 5-7
Will likely be streaming UR tomorrow night. Haven't played the list in a few weeks. Has Soul Scar become a staple?
Based on our local two UR players yes. Also I just talked about it with one of them and his insight was that if he starts the game with ponder he just loses some games. And that the deck with Bedlam seems like a different deck from his perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by pateuglow
A few months ago whenever I faced an UR player I felt like I was guaranteed to win whenever they started with ponder go. So his analysis is probably correct.
Generally I think swiftspear is much better with the UR prowess gameplan..Soul Scar from my perspective is being played more as an additional T1 threat than a replacement for swiftspear. Wither can have its advantage but its biggest benefit is being a T1 prowess creature.
Turn 1 ponder is slow but, it's not the end of the world. I feel like even without a turn 1 creature the deck does fine, the local player could just be playing it sub-optimally. The deck feels very balanced with the creature count at 13 and although it may become a staple later on, i think it's to soon to mark it as one.Quote:
Originally Posted by ratninja
Hmmm, tempted to try soul-scar out and see how it does. Have noticed I'm seeing a return of Goyfs and also more Gurmag Angler recently so it could be decent if the meta shifts towards those sort of cheap but large threats.
Did anyone see Mengucci's latest UR list from channelfireball? He tested 2 Cryptic Serpent and 2 TNN to moderate success in a mtgo daily event.
I, too am eager to try out Soul-scar though I will say that even though Stormchaser costs a whole extra mana the only time I really find that relevant is in the combo matchup where I really need 1-drops followed by interaction. Otherwise the fact that it flies, has 3 toughness, and is blue to pitch to FoW are all relevant.
If Serpent was a 6/6 I would be totally sold, as it would beat Goyf (usually), Reality Smasher and Angler in combat. As a 6/5 though it only trades with those cards, which is much less appealing.Quote:
Originally Posted by kamikaze360
I am not a fan of Serpent, Bedlam Reveler or TNN in this deck because I prefer threats that can be deployed quickly. To this end I think Soul-Scar Mage is definitely worthy of extensive testing, despite not having haste he's basically a Kird Ape or better for the deck, which is actually not bad. The fact that he has Wither (and gives it to all your spells) is actually relevant, too, as it makes attacking into big creatures not as bad and also interacts really well with Rough//Tumble out of the board.
He doesn't have wither, the -1/-1 counters are only from non-combat damage, so attacking into large creatures is still bad unless you can bolt/chain them first.Quote:
Originally Posted by FZA
Oh, I must have misread that...good catch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smuggo
Still, I think the fact that you can attack into an Angler with a bolt and actually have your soul-scar survive is quite nice.
Yeah there is definitely good potential for combat step tricks with it. Also as you note, it goes well with rough or pyroclasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by FZA
I notice Andrea Mengucci had dropped Sulphuric Vortex completely in his side. Anyone else trying this? I liked it a lot vs miracles, less sure now, but it still seems good vs any kind of control deck that might wear down our board and hand.
I honestly always found Sulfuric to be about the second most scary card in Burn decks when I'm opposite them. Turning off Jitte, DRS, BSK, Scooze, Centaur-man, and any other life-gaining trick is a pain, and right now a lot of enchantment hate is being cut (decays) because they are less necessary; instead opting for either x2 or Kolaghans, or nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smuggo
Yeah, I feel like we are not so dissimilar from burn in our approach, we want to be aggressive, send bolts to the face as much as possible, and wrap the game up fast. Opponent's gaining life can very easily put them out of range which is why I've kept 2x vortex in the side so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
A interesting UR "Tempo" list featuring YP, Stifle, Snapcaster Mage and some other interesting choices from the japanese Big Magic Open.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...se-tournaments
A MTGO 5-0 list today had 2X Cryptic Serpent, FYI.
I find it interesting how many "top end" cards have been printed for us lately. First it was True-Name, then Stormchaser, then more high CMC options in Bedlam Reveler and Cryptic Serpent. Honestly I think I like Serpent the most. It pitches to Force, tussles with most things in the format and doesn't make you discard your hand like Reveler does.
The creature over the years have really helped the deck tremendously imo. When I first tried to put UR together I remember besides Delver the other main creatures were 4x goblin guide, some grim lava mancers and SCM and ran more counterspells. The newer builds feel much more explosive and pro-active at closing the game out which I like.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMonday
I haven't given Serpent a try yet but it is intriguing.
Does anyone else beside me not hate Stormchaser Mage? I have seen quite a few UR players have distaste for him. I understand the points of why many don't like him, but I have won so many games off the keywords flying + prowess that despite his shortfalls l have become a fan.
I absolutely love stormchaser being a 1/3 makes it very tricky to kill with bolt and flying has just been so amazing in so many games. I have seen so many board states where i have a TNN holding the fort on the ground and stormchaser winning me the game in the air.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luthiereisfun
Been testing a bit with cryptic serpent, it's pretty good.
My only concern with Cryptic Serpent is it's antisynergy with Lavamancer.
I love my pesky Lavamancer too much to cut him from my board and he is such an easy swap for the single Reveler against Decks where you need additional Removal like Elves for example.
However, a creature suite like this looks good to me:
4 Delver
4 Swiftspear
2 Soul Scar Mage
//
3 Stormchaser Mage
1 Bedlam Reveler
Or:
2 Stormchaser Mage
2 Cryptic Serpent
Guess i will just pick up some copies of Soul Scar Mage and Serpent as they are very cheap atm and start some testing.