Ruby Storm

Thanks for the update. I agree that gamble is really good in this deck. It is much better as well while running probes, in case you pif and want to fill up your hand before casting gamble. Tendrils is good if you hit any matchups where grapeshot can't effectively kill.

Happy you got to dodge that damn Leovold deck. It's a tough one.

Were you able to land defense grids? What was your sideboarding approach?

I'll try testing the non probe version I posted earlier, but it's probably correct to run probes and help smooth out draws.

Against the two delver decks, did you find that tomb + probes were killing yourself too much? Asking bc I'm testing 2 tomb 2 City of Traitors split.

Thanks again!

ps, it looks like if he FoW your burning wish + surgical your wishes...what outs did you have? just wondering if you had a maindeck kill during game 3. (this is vs the streamers with the annoying voices)

also! worth mentioning if you expect surgical extraction and have a tendrils in the sb you can side in the grapeshot and still have a wish wincon.

I know I'm "just one of those who either haven't played the deck much or not at all" but I wanted to let some of the newer pilots know that I attempted to play version of this tonight at my LGS.


List:
4 Ancient Tomb
11 Mountain

4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
2 Helm of Awakening

4 Rite of Flame
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Burning Wish
3 Reforge the Soul
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury
2 Act on Impulse
2 Past in Flames
2 Overmaster
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Gamble

Side:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Defense Grid
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 Past in Flames
1 Cave-In
1 Fiery Confluence


Rd1: Infect
G1 he is dumbfounded, I combo turn 2.
G2 he kills me turn 3, as I draw 5 lands in a row off of draw steps plus git probe and overmaster cycling.
G3 git probe reveals he has 3 lands and no gas on the turn before I combo off, and his brainstorm whiffs. I combo at 7poison.
1-0

Rd 2: 4c Delver
G1 he mulls to 5 thinking I'm playing Dragon Stompy (my usual deck) and I combo turn 3 via Tendrils.
G2 he has literally every answer in the book. Forces, multiple Deathrites, multiple Surgicals, Pyromancers with Cabal Therapy, there was just nothing I could do when he drew the right answers for multiple turns.
G3 was close, as I baited multiple counters and slogged through, but in the end his Deathrite kills me. I was not able to find a Burning Wish to kill his DRS in time, and I died to creature beats plus DRS lifeloss.
1-1

R3: Burn
G1 I combo off turn 2. He says many mean things under his breath as he twiddles his Grim Lavamancer and basic mountain, waiting for me to combo.
G2 He deploys Monastery Swiftspear and Grafdigger's Cage, but I did not need PiF to win. Act into Reforge wins turn 3. He literally drops from the tournament and temper tantrums out the store.
2-1

Rd4: Shardless
G1 he Hymns me, deploys Liliana, and I combo the next turn via Tendrils.
G2 he deploys multiple Surgicals, but on the wrong cards. However, Snapcaster plus 2x DRS is fast enough to kill me while I try to find gas.
G3, multiple Defense Grids save my ass, and I storm off but whiff on Hazorets. Next turn I try again off Reforge and I generate literally over 30 storm before he screams, "Just show me the Grapeshot please!"


Afterthoughts (or obvious things that the experienced pilots know already but I am still learning because I am a noob)
- I should probably cut Hazoret from board, and Overmasters from main, adding more Probes and more Acts. Every game I had the opportunity to Wish for Hazoret, it seemed too risky.
- Reforge g1 against counterspells is really risky, unless you have maindeck storm cards. If you give your opponent a FoW via the Reforge, and you hit something they can counter, it feels super derpy.
- Overmaster, while helping against a potential counterspell, would probably be better as Probe, so that I can know exactly what the opponent has in hand and overload them with counter targets.
- I do not know if I want SSG or not. It seems bad via Act, but seems good for potential turn 1 and 2 kills. I do not know what to cut for these though, but I'm sure my severe noobism will be reduced by more repetitions of this deck.

good report! i hope you didn't untap your lands in round 4 after your whiffed hazoret's. in paper i really have to make a mental note of it myself or else i forget. glad you got some games in.

there's a few flex spots:

3 Reforge the Soul
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury
2 Act on Impulse
2 Past in Flames
2 Overmaster
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Gamble
4 Desperate Ritual

Between these numbers I feel like it's anyone's guess what is correct. Those are definitely the cards that could be swapped around or cut/added. Rest of the deck should remain the same. (pretty sure)

You can also cut the probes and opt for a faster version, which game 1 will play a bit more like belcher; but a version that can go into a mid game a lot better.

Definitely getting some Gambles for the deck, and probably Grids. For now I like Pyroblast, but Defense Grid may be better.

From my above list I will be doing this:
-1 SSG
-1 EtW (2 main, 1 side)
+1 Past in Flames (3 main, 1 side)
+1 Gamble

Sideboard
-2 Inferno Titan
+2 Scab-Clan Berserker

It seems really strong now, but Gamble is too spicy to leave on the sidelines. I haven't faced off against a bunch of tier decks yet either, just goldfishing on MWS. I think those additions will give the deck greater odds against tier decks. I like the Pyroblasts because they fight Show and Tell, kill cantrips against storm, and can fight Force of Will. Maybe, because the deck is so tight, Defense Grid is better because it helps over multiple turns. I need to try it out IRL before I get too crazy on changes.

I am going to my LGS for Legacy FNM this week, hopefully getting 4 rounds in but at least 3, with my version posted a little ways up. If I can get the Gambles/Berserkers by Friday I'll make the changes, if not, I'll run it the way it stands. Either way I'll work in the 3rd PiF maindeck, I already have that card. The empty will get cut for it, not the SSG.

sweet! good luck.

grid is prob better vs the counterspell/tempo decks because if you cast reforge you have to deal with a whole new hand of counters sometimes, and grid is just a one time effect. but it doesn't have a very good role vs decks like SNT and storm as you mentioned.

just feel comfortable playing the deck, i don't think the exact 75 is necessary at this point. there's a lot of testing and refining that will need to happen. at least we have a good amount of players willing to do that right now.

+1

Agreed. Super comfortable with the list; I just hope its fast/good enough to win me some games! The player base at my LGS is pretty high quality, it won't be easy.

Way to go Rampart!

A few questions about the list, specifically where they are different than mine:

Was a single Desperate Ritual ever lacking? I think I currently run 3, maybe could be talked about going down to 2... but 1 seems like there will be games where you'll be just short on mana.

2 Abrade - thoughts? What did it kill? Would Pyroclasm and By Force together done the same job?

No Pyroblast or REB! Seems crazy to me! One of the best cards in Legacy right now, and a reason to be playing mountains without bolts!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DeliriumFit

Way to go Rampart!

A few questions about the list, specifically where they are different than mine:

Was a single Desperate Ritual ever lacking? I think I currently run 3, maybe could be talked about going down to 2... but 1 seems like there will be games where you'll be just short on mana.

2 Abrade - thoughts? What did it kill? Would Pyroclasm and By Force together done the same job?

No Pyroblast or REB! Seems crazy to me! One of the best cards in Legacy right now, and a reason to be playing mountains without bolts!

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Most folks here are playing Defense Grid over Pyroblast because it does work over multiple turns (definitely relevant.) I think I'm the only one playing Pyroblast right now (and pyroblast gets the nod over REB because it can target non-blue spells and still add storm count, it just doesn't do anything.)

I play a singleton Despterate Ritual. When you have a Medallion/Helm out it becomes Dark Ritual; when you don't its no better than SSG because it only adds R to your pool (albeit adding to storm count.) I think the low land count of the deck means it needs more free mana sources, unless you're playing LED's, but that's a different approach entirely. I think if you're playing LED's then Desperate Ritual becomes one of the obvious places to cut. Rite of Flame and Seething Song both net more mana, and space gets tight at that point.

Dumb rules question here (it has been a while since this applied to me for anything)...
With HuF, the CMC is what is printed top right, NOT what it actually takes to cast the card, right? So if you Huf into a HUF, you can't cast it regardless of the amount of helms/rubys in play, correct?

Correct.

Also the cards are revealed all at once. You choose the order they go on the stack. Storm count is determined based on that order. Cards resolve in normal manner, unless if there's a split second card. Then you need a level 5 judge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

1. Were you able to land defense grids? What was your sideboarding approach?

2. Against the two delver decks, did you find that tomb + probes were killing yourself too much? Asking bc I'm testing 2 tomb 2 City of Traitors split.

3. it looks like if he FoW your burning wish + surgical your wishes...what outs did you have? just wondering if you had a maindeck kill during game 3. (this is vs the streamers with the annoying voices) also! worth mentioning if you expect surgical extraction and have a tendrils in the sb you can side in the grapeshot and still have a wish wincon.

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1. Yeah in a couple games, most of the time they get forced or broken, but its better the Grid then a Ruby or Helm. They make a pretty big deference becasue you can just cast them the turn before you go off, which is really nice, or it forces a certain amount of interaction while grid is on the stack. Against blue decks i take out probe for Grid, Against storm and tide i bring in Beserker as well by removing Fury's. I didn't' really sideboard for elves

2. Not really, I think the split is correct, i just don't have city's on Modo, Delver with bolts can really pressure your life total, but they need to either have flipped delver or goyf as mongoose just isn't fast enough.

3. I brought in Empty to hedge, thinking about it now it should have been a grapeshot. They did surgical my wishes btw but I made 60 goblin tokens

i'm still torn on whether i should run 11 mtn 4 sol or 10 mtn 5 sol. i think if i do go with 10 mtn then the extra spirit guide needs to be there somewhere.

thoughts?

Brought the deck to another Tuesday night legacy event, again 30-ish people, usually a reasonably competitive meta. I changed a few things in the list, especially the sideboard. I'll highlight the 'interesting' choices.

Hazoret Storm

Lands (15)
4x Ancient Tomb
11x Mountain

Enablers (18)
4 Burning Wish
3 Act on Impulse
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury
3 Reforge the Soul
2 Past in Flames
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Empty the Warrens

Storm (27)
4 Ruby Medallion
3 Helm of Awakening
4 Lotus Petal
2 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Rite of Flame
2 Desperate Ritual

Sideboard (15)
3x Hope of Ghirapur
2x Sulfur Elemental
1x By Force
1x Pyroclasm
1x Reforge the Soul
1x Past in Flames
2x Scab Clan Berserker
1x Grapeshot
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Tendrills of Agony
1x Tormod's Crypt

I went with 7 mana rocks with the idea that you basically always want at least one... and often, hitting extra rocks during the combo turn doesn't matter that much.

I feel like that sideboard slot can be either 3x Hope, 3x Defense Grid or 3x Pyroblast. For the love of the deck, and my contribution to this thread and to the legacy of this deck, I wanted to try out Hope of Ghirapur. Fortunately, I did face some blue decks!

The games:

2-0 VS Grixis Delver

Game 1 he pondered, I put a rock in play, then he brainstorm-pondered, then I went off with no resistance on turn 2.

Game 2 I got the Hope of Ghirapur out on turn 1... but unfortunately, after his turn 1 thought seize (or probe / cabal), my hand was mediocre. He also stalled on lands. On turn 4 or 5 I felt confident, attacked, popped the Hope, and went off.

2-1 vs Bant Stoneblade

Game 1 was a close one.... he disrupted me, daze a seething song, did some more annoying things - eventually he lands a sword and a leovold. I'm at 8 life. I have to go off. I succeed, making 54 goblins. Leoovold sure made it harder, blanking my Manamorphose and Reforge! He needs to find a Noble Hiearch to get in for the full 8 damage, but only manages 7. Goblins win!

Game 2 I kept a greedy hand and lost with no lands in play (he wastelanded my tomb)

Game 3, I turn 2 grapeshot his Noble Hiearch. Turns out this won me the game, as he stalled on mana hard. Oh and Hope of Ghirapur also let me go off safely. Win!

0-2 vs Academy Rector Esper thing?

Game 1 my deck durdles. I eventually make 12 goblins but he has maindeck Engineered Explosives. What?

Game 2 he turn 1 blind cabal's away my two Burning Wish, and then turn 2 AND 3 plays Chill...

2-0 vs Nic Fit

Poor Nic Fit guy, he just wants to do Nic Fit things. Game 1 he died quickly.

Game 2 was actually awesome. I boarded in Grapeshot, as I often do game 2 and 3 against decks that want to Surgical my Burning Wish. Turns out this won me the game. He thought seizes - surgicals my Wish (I had 2 in hand), he plays Gaddock Teeg, AND he Lost Legacy's my Empty the Warrens. I still manage to go off just enough with small draw effects, like Act on Impulse, find the lone grapeshot, kill his Teeg, go off for real, find Past in Flames, flash back the grapeshot. Fighting through HATE!

So, 3-1 in total again. Not bad!

Nice job! We gotta keep fightin' the good fight. IIRC, there are at least 2 players in my metagame playing UWx Stoneblade variants...and both play maindeck Explosives. Both are former Miracles players, so I think they are looking for card advantage tricks that slot into the empties from Counterbalance.

@mistercakes: I don't think more than 4 sol lands is wise, unless you max out on SSG (like you wrote, I agree with you.)

You don't want:

1) To be put out of the game by Wasteland when you only draw 1 land.
2) To work around land issues that somehow screw you over, like first land drop CoT, draw Mountain, can't comfortably go off (blue.dec), but if you NEED the land drop to win next turn.

I'm actually debating going DOWN on sol lands (possibly only 3, currently on Crystal Vein.) Games where I drew 2 mountains vs. games I drew 1 mountain/1 Sol land were nearly identical as far as consistency when going off. The initial mana boost is nice, but not make-or-break. I got in the habit of only playing my Sol Lands on the combo turn, to avoid getting blown out by Wasteland. That's where I started playing Vein, which needs the same approach. Starting a game with t1 Sol Land, Medallion (Daze/Force of Will/Spell pierce), followed up by Wasteland...I like that as much as I like a kick in the nuts. (My metagame is uber-fair, so this is a common occurrence.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

i'm still torn on whether i should run 11 mtn 4 sol or 10 mtn 5 sol. i think if i do go with 10 mtn then the extra spirit guide needs to be there somewhere.

thoughts?

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I agree 100% but monkey is easily the worst ritual spell. Additionally landing a rock on turn one is the best thing this deck can do. I think this is one of those its fine either way and it comes down to personal preference.

Thanks for feedback. Nice to get feedback from people with some games under your belts.

Wasteland scenario is always a factor for sol land decks. I suppose 4 sol lands is enough and hopefully with probes on average you can play around wasteland.

With ssg its quite nice even if you run out a sol land rock into daze... And then pay via ssg. (even into wasteland).

It's funny bc I started the deck with 8rocks,then we cut down to 4 for a whole... Then 6....maybe 7 is correct. I'm running 2 Gamble in my build as a pseudo rock when needed.

I have only goldfished a few mediocre runs of this deck (sub optimal build/rituals until the cards get here), but what about flipping the helm/ruby numbers? obviously if you run 4 you only want ruby, but if you are going to run a bunch would it be better to have helms first as you can then cast discounted helms/rubys later? Or is this one of those things where at that point it doesn't matter?

it's a good suggestion. so it's better for you, but helm also helps opponents. i think the matchups that are equal or unfavorable only get worse with a helm on the table.

the main problem matchups are:

dnt (thalia is the problem card, but they have several others that are also problematic)
snt (we're a big underdog here)
storm (storm is about even game 1 and we're favored post sb)

I would add Chalice/Trinisphere decks to that list. I've seen Helm of Obedience and Trinisphere making a resurgence, in Eldrazi and other Stompy-style decks. Red-based decks are hedging against Blood Moon being dead in some matchups (burn, Deathrite Shaman decks.) Yes Helm of Awakening makes stuff cost less, and evens out under a Helm of Obedience, but at that point it's doing NOTHING for you except slowing you down, while opponent's are still playing their normal game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

Thanks for feedback. Nice to get feedback from people with some games under your belts.

Wasteland scenario is always a factor for sol land decks. I suppose 4 sol lands is enough and hopefully with probes on average you can play around wasteland.

With ssg its quite nice even if you run out a sol land rock into daze... And then pay via ssg. (even into wasteland).

It's funny bc I started the deck with 8rocks,then we cut down to 4 for a whole... Then 6....maybe 7 is correct. I'm running 2 Gamble in my build as a pseudo rock when needed.

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I think the power level of Gamble is much more productive than having more rocks. The speed is there (turn 2-4 combo, on average), the resiliency is there (Past in Flames FTW), so the consistency part is really the focus. Gamble is able to play a much bigger role, for less mana, than Helm of Awakening (if you're simply comparing the two.)

Maybe both is correct, but the reoccurring problem with the deck is fitting in everything to make it function. Hazoret's Undying Fury is a fairly easy decision to make, simply because multiples get worse when casting them (1-2 has become sort-of the consensus.) The rituals are basically locked in as far as quantity of them, the mix just changes (mostly between SSG/Desperate Ritual.) The rock count seems like the last really big decision to make (barring any other new cards getting printed.) Sidboard is a metagame call, but the wishboard stays within 1-2 cards of each other in every build.

I was watching a bunch of videos on YouTube of Belcher, and I think we're simply a turn slower but more consistent version of belcher. Once our goblins are dealt with we aren't dead either, because Past in Flames is huge in the mid-late game for stealing wins. I've also been watching a lot of TES videos, a storm version that leans on Empty the Warrens to a much greater extent than ANT (and it's another Burning Wish deck like Belcher.) We're at about the same level of speed, just a little less consistent. We're banking on critical mass of storm producers/raw draw spells while they are banking on cantrips feeding the correct rituals/LEDs to feed a guaranteed Infernal Tutor/Burning Wish win. I highly suggest watching videos of all three of those decks; it puts Ruby Storm into perspective on how it works compared to those decks, and those other 3 give valuable insight on how to fight common matchups.

good points, but i think analysis is missing a few points.

belcher is belcher because it has a high % of turn 1 kills. the goblin plan is how it wins prob around 60+% of the games, but there's enough belcher kills to really put it in its own class.
TES is primarily an ad nauseam deck, and a lot less of a goblins deck. it does get there with goblins quite a lot, but i think there's more tendrils kills than goblins.

after getting excited again about using hazoret's, i've goldfished and played some matches on modo. after flipping 4 mountains with 2 in play...i'm tired of the singleton hazoret's.

here's the list i'm running. the only card i'm questioning is the 2nd gamble, which could become an empty the warrens.

2 ancient tomb
2 city of traitors
11 mountain
4 lotus petal
4 ruby medallion
2 helm of awakening
2 simian spirit guide
1 desperate ritual
4 rite of flame
4 manamorphose
4 seething song
4 gitaxian probe
4 burning wish
4 act on impulse
3 past in flames
3 reforge the soul
2 gamble

sb:

1 tendrils of agony
1 grapeshot
1 empty the warrens
1 past in flames
1 cave-in
1 reforge the soul
1 by force
2 abrade
3 defense grid
1 tormod's crypt

other than the 1 gamble slot, i'm probably keeping the other 59 together. (sb pretty flexible)

One thing I'll say in Hazoret's favour is that there are games where it can act as a late game personal Reforge the Soul. These games against a delver deck where they used all their stuff to stop you, and have a lone delver 3'ing you per turn, and your just in top deck mode. Hazoret's can be a top deck that instantly gets you back in the game. Also nice that it can operate without the graveyard in case someone went to the graveyard hate plan to stop PiF.

I dont know, maybe I just enjoy the card too much.

i agree completely. it is also the most fun card in the deck. i have my foil playset and non-foil. i go back and forth all the time. for now i'll go without it.

i haven't sat and playtested vs a good player (thorough amount of matches) to fine tune the numbers on everything. all i have right now is a ton of league play and 1 local tourney that i played over a month ago.

it's super possible my build is wrong!

Been playing this for fun for a bit and I really enjoy it for a "for fun" deck with upside.

In my testing I hated Defense Grid since and the Hope of Ghirapur but I have liked Pyroblast and even Thoughtseize as a 1 of in the board better.

Also I tried Gamble but IDK it always felt either great or terrible. I also didn't act on impulse but it grew on me and never want more than 2. I also feel I want more Empty in the main to just go to that if going off isn't a thing like in Belcher. I played TES for a long time and I feel his is between that and Belcher.

This is what I kind of ended on but keep trying things out.

4 Ancient Tomb
11 Mountain
4 Burning Wish
2 Act on Impulse
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury
3 Reforge the Soul
3 Past in Flames
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Ruby Medallion
2 Helm of Awakening
4 Lotus Petal
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Rite of Flame
2 Desperate Ritual

2 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Pyroblast or 2PB/1 Thoughtseize and 2 Badlands in main. Yes not mono red but like in TES being able to Wish for a discard spell is very very good especially game 1.
1 Meltdown
1 Pyroclasm
1 Cave-in
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Past in Flames
1 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrills of Agony
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury (might cut for something else cause I RARELY tutor for this like RARELY and maybe another Empty is better or something random)
1 Rending Volley

How do you guys beat Grixis Delver/Control?

The matchup feels insanely difficult with their combination of Counterspells, Hand Disruption and clock.

I'm something awful like 0-8 vs the swarms of delver online

it's definitely one of the harder matchups. game 1's can be won more easily with an empty the warrens heavy maindeck build. otherwise you will need to land a rock and at least 2-3 threats. volcanic fallout also isn't the worst card against matchups like that. angler is obviously still a problem, but the rest is handled by it.

abrade helps too. also you could consider the 4th reforge the wheel if it's really heavy delver. this way you can miracle yourself out of situations. magma jet is better in that build as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

good points, but i think analysis is missing a few points.

belcher is belcher because it has a high % of turn 1 kills. the goblin plan is how it wins prob around 60+% of the games, but there's enough belcher kills to really put it in its own class.
TES is primarily an ad nauseam deck, and a lot less of a goblins deck. it does get there with goblins quite a lot, but i think there's more tendrils kills than goblins.

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Great post.

How do you feel about the 1-of Thoughtsieze in the sideboard mentioned above(or it could be Cabal Therapy, honestly, especially with 4x maindeck GitProbes)? I think it's pretty sexy, but it would definitely need some black-producing lands in the maindeck or always drawing Manamorphose. Maybe not a risk we want, but I like that it can be flashed back as well for free for a goblin token (a trick other storm decks do often I think.)

I'm also sad if HUF becomes obsolete in the deck, because it was the card that I feel put this idea on the map in the first place. Fun aside, I think it was a way to get a critical mass of payoff storm engine spells (tagging along with RtS and PiF.) I understand the results, the deck is really a Past in Flames deck at heart more than anything else. I just want it to work so badly, lol. Mind's Desire is bonafide broken, so it was so cool to see this card see print.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

Great post.

How do you feel about the 1-of Thoughtsieze in the sideboard mentioned above(or it could be Cabal Therapy, honestly, especially with 4x maindeck GitProbes)? I think it's pretty sexy, but it would definitely need some black-producing lands in the maindeck or always drawing Manamorphose. Maybe not a risk we want, but I like that it can be flashed back as well for free for a goblin token (a trick other storm decks do often I think.)

I'm also sad if HUF becomes obsolete in the deck, because it was the card that I feel put this idea on the map in the first place. Fun aside, I think it was a way to get a critical mass of payoff storm engine spells (tagging along with RtS and PiF.) I understand the results, the deck is really a Past in Flames deck at heart more than anything else. I just want it to work so badly, lol. Mind's Desire is bonafide broken, so it was so cool to see this card see print.

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I tried Cabal first since it was the best in TES but its a hit and miss and I didn't like that. I want a answer to anything. Playing the 2 Badlands and 1-2 Red Fetches never felt bad or cost me a game, if anything I was happy they used Wasteland on my Badlands and let me keep the Tomb the one time it happened.. The 1 Thoughtseize seems just right. If I ran 4 probes and 3 Empty in the main I would say Therapy could possibly be better.

HUF is great at what it does. 2 seems to be just right. I wanted to run 4 SOOOOO bad and I had to accept reality it was to many.

Yes Grixis delver is the matchup thats making me think this deck is terrible but this is why I want more empty in the main and looking to go up to even 3. Pyroblast also is great here and why I prefer it as killing Delver is sometimes a fine play.

Fun idea I tested was putting 4 chalice in the board (non probe version) and even Blood Moon for some MU's since no one would see it coming and could steal games.

so i think the discard is an okay idea, but the manabase is already fragile. cabal therapy seems like it would be better than thoughtseize, with the probe and tombs the lifeloss would be pretty rough.

i think it's best if you want to just stop counterspells to run empty the warrens.

vieko and i have tested blood moon and i did test chalice early on (especially in builds that didn't run rite of flame and probe). blood moon does steal games, prob just check out your meta and if you can steal a lot of matches outside of grixis it might be worth it. (eldrazi, elves, lands. etc)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BR3N7

I tried Cabal first since it was the best in TES but its a hit and miss and I didn't like that. I want a answer to anything. Playing the 2 Badlands and 1-2 Red Fetches never felt bad or cost me a game, if anything I was happy they used Wasteland on my Badlands and let me keep the Tomb the one time it happened.. The 1 Thoughtseize seems just right. If I ran 4 probes and 3 Empty in the main I would say Therapy could possibly be better.

HUF is great at what it does. 2 seems to be just right. I wanted to run 4 SOOOOO bad and I had to accept reality it was to many.

Yes Grixis delver is the matchup thats making me think this deck is terrible but this is why I want more empty in the main and looking to go up to even 3. Pyroblast also is great here and why I prefer it as killing Delver is sometimes a fine play.

Fun idea I tested was putting 4 chalice in the board (non probe version) and even Blood Moon for some MU's since no one would see it coming and could steal games.

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I am also on 2x HUF, Pyroblast sideboard, and 3x Empty the Warrens maindeck, have been almost since the beginning. I'm really high on Act on Impulse right now, it's an absurd card to flip with Hazoret's Undying Fury (imagine Mind's Desire into Ancestral Recall, woo hoo!)

However, I'm not sold on the Thoughtseize sideboard. I think the brute force approach with Warrens will be better g1 against Grixis decks and post-board it's still fantastic, even against grave-hate.

Hoping to test out my Inferno Titans tomorrow night...see if they really are the real deal or wasted space.

Turn 1 Inferno Titan against elves, mmm, feels so good against my skin...

EDIT: If we sideboard Thoughtseize, and the high mana cost spells are mostly Wish targets, do we go back to 2008 and sideboard Dark Confidant?

just played 3 matches on modo and won all. (was casual room, but they seemed competent).

like my last list, but cut 1 land for the 3rd helm of awakening. was doing more consideration after the post a few days ago by Ronco. I still favor Ruby so I am running 4 Ruby, but I think in a deck that relies a lot of Act on Impulse, it's important to get it to 1cc.

10 mtn and 4 sol land.

(also to note, elves is already favorable. make sure you have enough matchups where inferno titan will help.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

just played 3 matches on modo and won all. (was casual room, but they seemed competent).

like my last list, but cut 1 land for the 3rd helm of awakening. was doing more consideration after the post a few days ago by Ronco. I still favor Ruby so I am running 4 Ruby, but I think in a deck that relies a lot of Act on Impulse, it's important to get it to 1cc.

10 mtn and 4 sol land.

(also to note, elves is already favorable. make sure you have enough matchups where inferno titan will help.)

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I didn't know elves was favorable...haven't played the matchup yet. That was one of the bigger reasons for it because it wipes the board every turn. I guess pressuring Jace is good, but I don't think I've ever seen a t1-2 Jace.

Elves have nothing game 1 outside of racing you

Postboard, they have surgicals, seize/therapy, ruric thar

overall still an easy matchup

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

just played 3 matches on modo and won all. (was casual room, but they seemed competent).

like my last list, but cut 1 land for the 3rd helm of awakening. was doing more consideration after the post a few days ago by Ronco. I still favor Ruby so I am running 4 Ruby, but I think in a deck that relies a lot of Act on Impulse, it's important to get it to 1cc.

10 mtn and 4 sol land.

(also to note, elves is already favorable. make sure you have enough matchups where inferno titan will help.)

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If you play 3 helms and go down to 14 lands, I guess the lonely desperate ritual can be switched to the 3rd SGG to maximize the chances to play your rock on T1. SGG helps getting paying daze sometimes.
My testing confirms Gamble is the nuts: I play 2 and I am not playing less in the near future.

Ran 2-1 a few days ago in a paper tournament beating elves and Miracles and losing to Tezzerator with MB Leyline which was brutal.

going to be running back my list this time with 2x gamble and cutting the Chandra, Torch of Defiance.

yea i am a little reluctant to run so few initial red sources (10 mtn, 2 ssg, 4 petal) but will require more testing. i really like how desperate ritual can enable turn 1 wins.

turn 1 desperate -> ruby/helm -> manamorphose -> seething song -> do something stupid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

yea i am a little reluctant to run so few initial red sources (10 mtn, 2 ssg, 4 petal) but will require more testing. i really like how desperate ritual can enable turn 1 wins.

turn 1 desperate -> ruby/helm -> manamorphose -> seething song -> do something stupid.

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I've been on 1 Desperate Ritual for a while, and I find it to be worth its slot but I'm not sure how many more than 1. I'm back on the plan of playing a full set of SSG because of the need for mana post-Reforge the Soul.

Quick question for everyone: I haven't *once* Wish-ed for Reforge the Soul, ever. I see where it could be great, but I almost always go for Tendrils if I can kill them now, or Past in Flames to further the chain (and kill them now, lol.) I'm wondering if the RtS could be dropped from the wishboard for something more relevant in the side. You guys wishing for RtS very often?

That tends to come up more in the matchups where counterspells aren't involved. Really helps with the storm matchup too. It can also help a lot vs the decks that are packing hard grave hate like leyline or rest in peace.

I'd say if you don't find yourself wishing for it, try to figure out if you ever could have for games that didn't get there. If it doesn't come up enough for you then I would say move it to main board or just drop.

I have just played some games with:

1 desperate ritual
1 simian spirit guide
3 helms of awakening
10 mountains
1 crystal vein
4 ancient tomb

The rest as mistercakes'.
I felt very good with 7 rocks.
Mana felt great.

What is annoying with SSG is they cannot be discarded for mana when exiled with act on impulse. I guess I am changing my mind on them.

Question: how does defense grid works under helm?