Unless you want to draw multiple Revokers in each game, you can trim one for an additional Champion or Walker. For the utility lands, 2 Karakas and 20 Lands would be my choice as well.
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Unless you want to draw multiple Revokers in each game, you can trim one for an additional Champion or Walker. For the utility lands, 2 Karakas and 20 Lands would be my choice as well.
I'm currently on this list:Quote:
Originally Posted by baboontilt
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's factory
4 Wasteland
2 Inventor's Fair
2 Darksteel Citadel
1 Karakas
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
4 Vault Skirge
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Etched Champion
2 Hangarback Walker
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
3 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Umezawa's Jitte
So far been happy with this list.
I've found d&t to be a very doable matchup, which is mainly thanks to chalice (blanking stp and vial on the play is major in this matchup), champion and ballista. Most d&t lists play fewer revokers of their own which means that ballista is just that much more of a beating.
No equipment in the main anymore because spending mana to equip just to get it removed sucks.
I've never been big on hangarback, but I think you really need it now more than ever vs grixis control. I would much rather have hangarback over welding jar because jar is another potential dead card later in the game.
I actually disagree with your statement that aggressive starts do not work against grixis control. In my experience if you get to go wide early you can often push through enough damage before they can stabilize properly. Ravager, hangarback and champion are pivotal in doing this with champion or ballista very often providing the reach for closing the game out. The other option is to try and grind them out with lockpieces, hangarback and especially karn. If you manage to resolve karn without them having a significant boardpresence you pretty much just outgrind them. Thorn has been stellar in the matchup as well, sometimes being better than chalice by making them choose what to do with their earlier turns as they can't function very efficiently when nearly everything costs more.Quote:
Originally Posted by quadich
I agree that mox opal is weak in mid/late game, but I also think it's a lot better when played together with darksteel citadel for enabling metalcraft early. When you have a citadel in play, metalcraft is so much easier to maintain which is also very important for champion. The option to pay for skirge without paying 2 life has also been relevant sometimes.
Ended up going an unexciting 7-4, went with this list:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
2 Karakas
1 Inventor's Fair
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Jitte
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Vault Skirge
2 Etched Champion
2 Hangarback Walker
SB
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
Matchups were:
r1: W vs. 4-color Delver blade w/ TNN and Leovold
r2: W vs. UW Stoneblade
r3: W vs. Death & Taxes
r4: W vs. Maverick
r5: L vs. Rb Goblins
r6: L vs. UW blade w/ AK & Lots of Jaces/TNN
r7: L vs. Eldrazi Post (Candelabra build)
r8: W vs. Storm
r9: W vs. Turbodepths
r10: L vs. Grixis Control
r11: W vs. UR Delver
Wanted Darksteel Citadel a few times, but Karakas, Blinkmoth, and Fair each won me several games. Could see going -1 Petal -1 Karakas + 2 Citadel.
Hey, man. I honestly think you would have beaten me if I wasnt acutely aware of what you were trying to do. I was your rd 6 opponent. I swear, only 2 jaces. I will have my tourney report up soon. You will see what i was thinking in the match. Dont be too down! I always root for my colorblind bretheren!
Made another top 8, same list as last time.
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=20540&d=335068&f=LE
Won vs eldrazi, grixis control and food chain. ID for last two rounds to get in the top 8 in the 3rd seat, won in the QF from RUG delver and lost in the semi's to infect.
R1 vs eldrazi stompy (2-1)
G1 mull to 5, decent hand but he has 3 removal spells for my creatures so I get smashed to death.
In: 3 bridge, 1 jitte, 2 sorcerous spyglass, 2 ratchet bomb
Out: 4 chalice, 4 thorn
G2 keep solid 7, waste his temple and land a skirge. He plays eye of ugin but the mana setback is enough to allow me to equip a jitte and connect. Next turn I play bridge and he scoops.
G3 I have a quick karn to get some extra cards. He lands reshaper and thought-knot (taking ballista) for some early damage and disruption. I have ravager, factory and spyglass. I know he has only 2 smasher in hand but is short on mana. When he attacks with thought-knot and reshaper I block thought-knot with factory and reshaper with ravager. Sac the spyglass to ravager and then ravager to himself to put the counters on factory to make it a 5/5 when blocking to kill thought-knot (in the process preventing potential extra mana by not killing reshaper). I follow up in my turn with bridge and he scoops soon after when more creatures land on my side.
R2 vs grixis control (2-0)
G1 I get some early disruption in the form of chalice. Ravager meets a force of will but ballista plus skirge provide some steady damage as I get to pump ballista to kill strix and swing in each turn. After a while I finish it off with a second ballista to attack and subsequently shoot for lethal.
In: 2 karn, 3 spyglass, 2 bomb
Out: 3 revoker, 4 skirge
G2 I get a thorn in play early which greatly hampers his development. After I get a hangarback to stick for a few turns he has to deluge to get rid of my board but I get three thopters to keep swinging. Shortly after I stick champion and ravager to keep pressuring him. He gets two strix and a Liliana on the board but ravager provides the necessary shenanigans to get around his blockers and Liliana activations. I end up with 2 thopters, a 6/6 champion, opal and thorn in play and he has to have exactly kholaghan’s command plus 1 mana removal to stop me from killing him (he’s at 1 and has 5 mana available). He brainstorms so I know I’ve won.
R3 vs food chain (2-1)
G1 I get a T1 chalice going but he forces my T2 thorn. I get an overseer going with ravager, skirge and factory in play and he can't keep up.
In: 2 ratchet bomb, 2 spyglass, 1 jitte
Out: 2 hangarback walker, 1 karn, 1 etched champion, 1 vault skirge
G2 he plays engineered plague and I respond by saccing my opal to ravager to make it a 2/2 but he names construct. This turned out to be a mistake on my part as he manages to get food chain in play and make 40 million mana to cast two ballistas (each 10 million/10 million). I have spyglass on ballista but by saccing the opal earlier I'm 1 mana short for searching bomb and playing it in the same turn to blow both of his ballista up. He topdecks trinket mage to get explosives so he can get rid of my spyglass.
G3 he mulls to 4, I have chalice and later thorn to prevent him from doing much during the early turns. He gets 2 lands in play but because of the combination of thorn and chalice he can't cast explosives in a meaningful way (cast for 0 means it gets 1 counter, casting it for 1 would get 2 counters but runs it into chalice). My clock is rather slow but it gets there.
R4 ID against enchantress
We play some games for fun and it’s very clear that this matchup comes 100% down to: do I have the thorn and chalice in the first few turns or not.
R5 ID against RUG delver
We also play a game for fun which I convincingly win even without chalice or thorn.
QF against RUG delver (team mate) (2-1)
G1 I mulligan to 5 and get manascrewed by wasteland. By the time I find my mana he has true-name and goyf and I’m at 7.
In: 1 jitte, 3 bridge, 2 ratchet bomb
Out: 2 hangarback, 1 karn, 3 revoker
G2 he mulligans to 6, I get T1 chalice, he manages to stall me with double wasteland but eventually I find more mana en nearly everything I play represents a problem for him. I keep up bridge in case he manages to stabilize but this turns out to be unnecessary.
G3 he mulligans to 5, I mulligan to 6. I stick chalice and thorn but he has double wasteland to keep me from doing anything for a number of turns while he draws mana. Chalice is removed and the game ends up going long but I am gaining a lot of life with skirge and fair. Eventually I make a 3/3 skirge with ravager which gets the final points of damage through. In retrospect I probably should have made it a 4/4 because of bolt but luckily I didn’t get punished for this.
SF against infect (team mate who ended up winning the tournament) (1-2)
G1 I have a superfast clock and manage to kill him before taking a lot of poison.
In: 1 jitte, 2 ratchet bomb, 3 sorcerous spyglass
Out: 2 hangarback, 1 karn, 1 champion, 1 vault skirge, 1 revoker
G2 he starts with trop into noble, I resolve thorn and it turns out he does not have a follow-up but I am also a bit stuck on mana because of city + multiple wasteland. We enter a weird game where I repeatedly try to stop his mana with wasteland or revoker only to get the land crop rotated or my revoker dazed. He eventually gets double blighted agent in play and manages to kill me the turn before I swing back for lethal.
G3 I have a hand of double chalice, double thorn, ravager and the possibility to play one of them on turn 1 so I keep. I resolve chalice and thorn but he has blighted agent again and pumps it to a 9/9. I do not find ballista so I die to the unblockable poison. Turns out ballista was my next topdeck so it was right on his part to go for it there.
Still happy with most of the deck, however I feel the third spyglass in the sideboard might be a bit too much. I might end up switching this back to a spellskite or something else like warping wail or dismember.
Took the below list to my LGS for a small 20-ish people tournament, 4 rounds and a 3-0-1 finish.
The maindeck is geared for the grindy matchups, which have a big metagame presence in my area. Combo-hate for specifics in SB.
Steel Stompy
Creatures:20
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Walking Ballista
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
Spells:19
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
4 Mox Opal
4 Smuggler's Copter
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
Lands:22
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 City of Traitors
2 Karakas
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:15
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Confusion in the Ranks
Round 1 vs Steel Stompy (mirror but with colors)
Lost the die roll and got stomped by an Overseer and two Skirges, on to next game.
Games 2 & 3 were both won by a turn 2 Karn with Ballista and Copter backup. He tried to fight back with a couple of Daretti Ingenious Iconoclast and some support creatures, which got shot down handily. A miser chalice @2 sealed game 3.
(1-0)
Round 2 vs Infect
Lost the die roll again. Game 1 was a fairly easy win due to a chalice@1 on turn 1 after his T1 cantrip. Some beaters from my side went to town.
Game 2 I couldn't answer his Blighted agent, which got pumped to oblivion.
Game 3 I once again chaliced @ 1, he deployed an Inkmoth Nexus and a Blighted Agent, but the rest of his hand was cmc 1... so my army of Copters and Constructs took him out quickly.
(2-0)
Round 3 vs Antiquities War (Blue stompy shell)
Lost the die roll again, come on! Game 1... I went Turn 1 Copter. He played a turn 2 chalice @2, it didn't matter much as he couldn't handle the assault from a duo of pumped Hangarbacks and a Copter ditching cmc2-spells. In fear of Ensnaring Bridge I kept my team at 3 power while watching his hand size.
Game 2 i got locked out by a turn 1 Sphere of Resistance followed by Crucible/Waste. No spells for me except a couple of taxed moxen.
Game 3 I started with Turn 1 Tomb -> Copter, Mox D, Mox O, Overseer... Turn 2 Mishra -> Crew Copter, activate Overseer. Turn 3 Karn. Enough said.
(3-0)
Round 4 vs Aggro Loam
Knowing my opponent and what he was playing made me feel uneasy, as this can be a rough ride for us.
Lost the die roll, obviously, I suck at this. Got a good start with Tomb into Copter and started grinding at his life total, Revoked a Liliana and kept up the beats. Some trades were made and in the end we were both hellbent. He drew a Knight, then a Maze of Ith. Knight into Cabal Pit at Revoker and Asassins Trophy on an Overseer ended me.
Game 2 I had a good 7 with multiple Karns and many Sol Lands. A single Wasteland did nothing vs me and I made some stupid decisions that didn't matter at all. Easy win.
Game 3 was a difficult one. He attacked my manabase with Waste and Quarter while deploying Knights... meanwhile I resolved Hangarback and Overseer. Got a few tokens from a killed Hangarback, which I had to use as blockers to his duo of 10/10 knights. At one point I had the opportunity to deal 16 damage when I landed a Ravager, unfortunately he was at 18 (so close). Had to play defense on low mana as he landed a Tabernacle. It ended in time over and a draw.
(3-0-1)
Split for 1st and some store credit. Fun games this time around! I wasn't too impressed with Karakas or Blinkmoth and I'm pondering on replacing some of these with lands that generate more card draw... Throne of the High City comes to mind.
Regarding my choice of running Mox Diamond over Lotus Petal. A hand of land + petal is a mulligan, the same as land + Mox D. I prefer the continous mana over the temporary, also leaves something for Ravager to eat. Smuggler's Copter felt really good overall and I was always happy to see one.
@Johanovich
I am surprised you were lucky to avoid Miracles matchups. In my tests this is almost unwinnable matchup. Back to Basics just owns us, Terminus closes the game. With a lot of cantrips moved from 1cc to 2cc our CoTV do not hinder them a lot.
I wish I could ignore it but unfrotunately Miracles is T1 deck and quite popular. Also decks with Price of Progress are quite troublesome.
What is your experience against Miracles? Did you happen to find any reliable strategy or sideboard card? May be Winter Orb can help us?
Miracles is a pretty horrendous matchup if they are on the straight UW back to basics plan. This is (in my opinion) a matchup that became worse by cutting lodestone golem as it provided both a fast clock and disruption.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryoclasm
The main thing to have a chance is to have thorn in play, a T1 thorn can really slow them down a lot and if you manage to stick a chalice or a second thorn in the next few turns you have a really good chance of killing them before they can stabilize. CoTV still hits at least 12 cards in ponder, brainstorm and STP, so it's definitely not bad as it prevents them from developing in the early turns, stops them from putting terminus back with BS while also preventing spot removal.
Karn is also an important card in this matchup as he provides continuous card advantage and pressure. Similarly manlands and champion are good because they're relatively hard to deal with.
Winter orb is an interesting idea, I think I'll give it a spin in the next testing sessions.
If you want to go really hardcore on them you could try jamming a few chokes (with a forest in the manabase to have a basic as well for back to basics). I'd love to see people's faces when an artifact deck casually drops choke and proceeds to beat face from there. :laugh:
Do you think that Thorn of Amethyst is good even in g2 against Miracles? I know that is a side out against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanovich
-
About the latest lists of Steel Stompy, Gen Shinohara hits the 12th place at GP Shizuoka.
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Vault Skirge
4 Walking Ballista
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
2 Mox Opal
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Karakas
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Throne of the High City
4 Wasteland
2 Wastes
Sideboard:
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Spellskite
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Leyline of the Void
Why two Wastes instead of Darksteel Citadel? I know that Back to Basics is good against us, but are two copies of Wastes good enough to cast the last cards to win before Miracles goes in total control?
In the list below I would side like that:
- 4 Petals
- 2 Mox (the game is long usually and quick start doesnt matter)
+1 Karn
+2 Bombs
+2 Sorcerous spyglass
+1 Jitte
As for GP Shizuoka list in general:
Personally I don't like 4 petals and only 2 moxen, from my perspective 3-3 is much better: you want to hit at least 1 mox in the beginning and 1shot mana is only needed for metalcraft and swarming the board on the second turn.
As much as I like neat solutions like Throne, it doesn't belong to that list. 2 Darksteel citadel are much more important to enable metalcraft, to provide counters for Ravager and serve as wasteproof source at the same time.
Wastes singleton can be used though, I think.
I'm pretty certain the 2 Wastes are meant for Assasins Trophy, Ghost Quarter and to some extent Veteran Explorer. Sure they help vs B2B aswell, but drawing enough of them in time vs miracles requires too much luck to be consistent.
Throne of the High City might seem clunky, but it does a pretty good job in the lategame where we sometimes run out of cards vs grindy decks.
As a sidenote, Smuggler's Copter deserves more love, looting attached to a flyer fits nicely into this deck... it has served me well in drawing the right cards in time while keeping up pressure.
To be honest if you're going to play basics, just pick regular basics. The deck does not need actual colorless mana and using either swamps (for skirge) or other basics like plains at least provide some extra angle for sideboard cards. Like for example this list that recently made top 8 in Belgium: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=20675&d=336231&f=LEQuote:
Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 City of Traitors
2 Karakas
3 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Arcbound Ravager
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Hangarback Walker
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Vault Skirge
4 Walking Ballista
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Cranial Plating
4 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
4 Thorn of Amethyst
SIDEBOARD
2 Containment Priest
1 Disenchant
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Rest in Peace
2 Spellskite
2 Winter Orb
Played this list today except Jitte over Karn and SB was a bit different. I had Tormod's Crypt because mine look nice and they go well with Opals and Ravagers and such. Went 3-1-1 (ID) to top 8. We split T8 to eat. Beat Dnt, Lost to Dnt, Beat GB Depths, Beat Imperial Painter, Drew with Elves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanovich
DnT
G1 I got a Revoker on his vial and he cast Thalia and that was it and he got run over by Vault Skirges and an Etched Champion.
G2 he plains pass. I Tomb into Overseer. He plays SFM for Jitte and passes. I go Opal, Skirge, Skirge, Overseer activate my first one. I completely run him over before Jitte matter at all. Even had a Warping Wail just in case.
DnT
G1 He stabilizes after I draw somewhat poorly and can't pressure him enough. He gets revoker on my Ravager and his flickerwisp hits my 3 counter Hangarback and I get fukt
G2 More of the same. I misplay with my warping wail and get revokered again and can't mount a proper offense before he gets Jitte going
Depths
G1 I get Ravager and 2 Ballista. I ravager to make Ballista a 5/5 and survive combat. I keep wasteland up while I'm attacking but he finds decay for my 5/5 and I just have my 1/1 left. Fortunately He's low on life and a Skirge off the top with the ballista get there.
G2 He makes a Bob and I ballista it. He makes a second bob then a third bob. The game draws long. I have Spyglass on Stage, chalice on 1, revoker on Hexmage with 2 Ensnaring Brdge in hand. Luckily his bobs only flip 2 drops and my etched champion and vault skirge have been doing work on his life total and he dies.
Painter
G1 He gets a Sin Prodder on T1 but I waste him on his turn 2 and he never draws a second land and I get him.
G2 I get a chalice hand and have some pressure with a Ravager and Hangarback. He Abrades my Overseer but when he's tapped down after attacking with Smuggler's Copter I get him for exactly 10 with my 1 of Blinkmoth and all of my artifacts from Ravager.
Deck was pretty sick. First time I've ever played an Opal Ravager deck. I liked the power. Main board Thorn was pretty bad all day, but I get why it exists. All the combo players in the room got knocked out fairly quickly.
Sorry for double post, but has anyone ever thought about or tried a version that's kind of like affinity with some of the 0 drop dudes and maybe cradle for even more fast Mana? I just want to play Verderous Gearhulk with Walking Ballista mostly
Green is actually my current go-to splash color for Steel Stompy, mostly due to SB Choke and Seal of Primordium. Haven't tried Cradle+Gearhulk yet, but I imagine we would need close to full sets of Ornithopter/Memnite to consistently enable it in the first 2 turns, also we would most likely need some additional CA to not end up hellbent and be dead to an early sweeper and/or some filtering to improve lategame with that many 0-drops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
My initial list:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucane
Green Affinity:
Maindeck (60)
3 Hangarback Walker
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Walking Ballista
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Steel Overseer
4 Vault Skirge
2 Etched Champion
2 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
3 Verdurous Gearhulk
2 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
1 Welding Jar
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Gaea's Cradle
4 Tree of Tales
It's rough. Maybe with the 0's glimpse is worth it? Harmonize?
Glimpse might be worth it since there is no Chalice, potentially nuts. Sylvan Library could work, but we lack shuffle effects... so we are dependant on Skirge if we want to use it aggressively.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Harmonize is 5 mana under a Thorn so it's likely too slow.
Btw, Cranial Plating seems nice with 10 evasive beaters. Might be worth it.
i tried this a while back (almost 2 years ago) but never really got any feedback on the thread:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...=1#post1001586
Ha I'm the one who responded back then. I guess there's a virus on my head that wants to play this. Deck seems powerful in gold fishing, but I'm not sure how actually good it is in practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
Ran this deck for the first time at a local weekly event. I'm a stompy player, but hadn't sleeved up Steel Stompy before. Deck seems very explosive and I wanted to give it a try. Ended up splitting 1st place.
Round 1 vs Infect:
Game 1 Chalice on 1 basically seals the deal. Game 2 an early Ratchet Bomb kills his sole threat and a Ballista on 2 ends the match.
1-0, 2-0
Round 2 vs MUD:
I got steamrolled game 1 by Metalworker and friends. Lots of dead cards on both sides of this matchup. Game 2 I had a Warping Wail to take care of his early Metalworker, which caused him to stumble just enough to close it out with my Golems. Game 3 was a grindy affair, but he mistakenly used Wasteland on my Mishra's Factory instead of a City of Traitors, which allowed me to Thought-Knot the following turn. Closed it out shortly thereafter.
2-0, 2-1
Round 3 vs Aluren:
This wasn't all that close. Lodestone and Thorn were huge here, making all of his shenanigans cost more. Creature beatdown took over from there.
3-0, 2-0
Round 4 vs Lands:
Intentionally draw to split prize for first.
Does this list pretty much fold to Chalice on 2? I am debating running this list next weekend at a local Chicago Legacy tourney. Seems to be very good for the meta I’m expecting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanovich
I suppose so, but Chalice probably gets boarded out for both decks most likely. And a decent amount of chalice decks themselves can be weak to a chalice on 2Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister_Lamp
Went undefeated at my weekly Legacy event again. Same deck as last time, though I think I'll be making some changes going forward.
Round 1 vs Miracles:
Game 1 a turn 1 Chalice shuts off a lot of his action, and I'm able to aggro him to death. Game 2 was much grindier, as he brought in Disenchants (coupled with Snapcaster) and hit a few miracle'd Terminus. Karn making tokens and Thought-Knot stripping the last piece of interaction from his hand eventually seals it.
1-0, 2-0
Round 2 vs MUD:
Same guy as last time, though I think this time I was able to navigate the matchup even better. Game 1 was won via Steel Overseer getting out of hand quickly and Wasteland cutting off his Cloudposts. Game 2 was pretty grindy, as he was able to stay alive via Wurmcoil and Kuldotha Forgemaster fetching up a Platinum Emperion, which required me to move my Ravager counters over to a Ballista to shoot it down. One notable play was me blind naming Karn Liberated with a Revoker, which turned out to be game changing as Karn was intended to be his next play. I also tutored up a second Revoker with Inventors' Fair to name Spellskite so that his active Spellskite couldn't steal Ravager's modular counters. Eventually got there with an overwhelming board, namely buffed up Vault Skirges in the air.
2-0, 2-0
Round 3 vs Elves:
Game 1 was essentially won with a turn 1 Chalice and an early Steel Overseer. Game 2 was won via Jitte and Lodestone Golem.
3-0, 2-0
All in all, the deck feels awesome. However, I think I'll be cutting the two Swamps for something else, whether it be the white splash shown above or the red splash I've seen elsewhere. This will give me access to different sideboard options. The Swamps just never really mattered, as I still mostly wanted to cast Skirge for 1 mana and 2 life. I see some lists eschewing Lodestone Golems for other creatures, such as Thought-Knot main, but I've really liked them. I can potentially see cutting some number of Revokers from the main to add a Hangarback Walker or two.
I guess :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister_Lamp
Never played with this list though.
On another note, I played with this list in the Belgian Legacy Cup finals in december, finishing 6th.
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's factory
4 Wasteland
2 Inventor's Fair
2 Darksteel Citadel
1 Karakas
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
4 Vault Skirge
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Etched Champion
2 Hangarback Walker
1 Chief of the Foundry
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 karn, scion of urza
3 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Umezawa's Jitte
I had amassed two byes by finishing second in the overall seasonal standings, so only needed three wins before being able to draw into top8. I mulled in the majority of games, but this did not stop the power of the deck.
R1 bye
R2 bye
R3 sneaky show 2-0
G1 I have too much pressure and kill him despite an emrakul.
G2 he goes t2 show into emrakul and I drop bridge. I assemble two overseer and ballista to secure a quick win afterwards.
R4 sneaky show 2-0
G1 he counters chalice but the pressure is too much.
G2 he gets sneak attack in play and sneaks griseldaddy in. He doesn't draw 7 and passes the turn. I remind him that griselbrand dies and because we're already past the beginning of end step he doesn't get to draw 7. I topdeck and play spyglass on sneak, following it up with karakas the next turn which wins me the game.
R5 infect 2-1
G1 I know he is on infect so ballista is a priority, however my hand of 6 is too good to mull but is maybe a tad slow depending on my draws. He gets in a few times with glistener elf (with hierarch for the pump). He drops two more hierarchs so I chump with skirge. I waste his land and revoke the hierarchs to manascrew him. Afterwards I drop karn and make a 6/6 token which stonewalls his elf. I finally find ballista and clean up.
G2 I remember narrowly losing this game due to having 1 mana short to completely wipe his board with ballista.
G3 lockpieces + pressure is too much for him.
R6 ID with teammate
R7 ID with teammate
One of my teammates is 6-0-1, and I and another teammate are 5-0-2. There were some weird pairings, causing several people with 5-1 to be downpaired. This unfortunately caused two people to jump above us because they had to play (and won). This means I have to play against my teammate with UW miracles, who I would have preferred to not meet until the finals (he won the event and is now the belgian champion for the third year in a row).
QF miracles 1-2
G1 He keeps a one-lander because he has double fow + double blue card and swords. My chalice and champion get forced but I have steady pressure and chief of the foundry really pulled its weight here, causing easily 6+ damage over two turns and providing just enough reach to close the game.
G2 I get karn but he gets exiled by the council. I again have steady pressure but he keeps finding removal. I manage to get him to 3 life and he drops gideon to make a 2/2. I have a 3/3 overseer so I have 7 lethal draws (1 champion, 2 ballista, 2 bomb and 2 fair to get them). I topdeck a land so attack and he chumps. Turn after he drops baneslayer angel (4 outs left, 2 ballista and 2 fair). I don't find an answer and he takes the game
G3 I have thorn, but no sol lands. I have 4 lands in play with a few threats when he drops back to basics. I have the choice of deploying more threaths and hope to get there or drop ratchet bomb and hope to blow up btb. I decide to go for the first and he topdecks terminus, GG
The finals were UW miracles against the only other steel stompy player present, so all in all again a good performance of the deck.
With that, I'm probably shelving the deck for now. I've had loads of fun last year and great successes with the robots, but as now most people who know me expect this deck I feel this is the correct time to make a switch.
I played the deck recently with great succsess in small tournaments, but there is one MU, which is very hard to win Miracles.
I have 2 sideboardslots besides 2 Karn. What do you all think, that the best cards are. I tested Winter orb, but i am not sure if it is the right choice.
Possible Cards: Armageddon, Winter Orb, Choke, Thalia Heretic Chathar, Boil, more Karns?
Thoughts?
I'm working on the deck as well, still have lot of testing to do with Miracles first on the list. For now I'm beginning with one or two Tree of Tales mainboard and Choke in the side. Hope that works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
can you go into some depth as to why you feel the matchup is difficult? are they playing cards like back to basics or are you unable to get enough damage through etc..?Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
Just won a couple games in my first side event at the GP. 2 rounds and drop because the value is so high kind of stinks, but deck feel good. Beat storm and lands. Ballista is a good card it turns out. Will be playing in the double value event later on. List isn't anything particularly interesting
First of all the MU is difficult because of back to Basics but that is a Problem a have to life with. If thorn of Amythist can`t Prevent B2B from hitting the Battlefield, i got a Problem. My Question is: Do i want a hatecard like B2B for myself (Armaggedon, choke, winter orb) or do i want difficult to deal with threats (Karn, Etched Champion, Man lands)?Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
But the real issue is that miracles has the 1 mana sweeper and if you Play around Terminus , most of the time you will be beaten by monastery mentor
Ended up going 4-2 on the weekend with the deck. Should've been a clean 5-0 though. I just completely fucked up Ravager math, probably still would've won anyway, and then scooped in frustration at myself. Deck felt incredibly competitive, and just runs away with so many games. I think I'll just practice with Ravager in modern to get some reps, but I think this deck will be my go to for the moment in lieu of painter
Towards the Miracles MU:
I tested that frequently with a friend who is a long-time Miracles pilot. Here are some hints I may give:
-though Terminus is a problem, getting early damage in is crucial for winning the long game
-to protect yourself against much early interaction, I recommend running at least 3 Thorn of Amethyst and 3 Lodestone Golem main
-I also have 4 Etched Champion, 2 Karn, 1 Sword of Fire and Ice and 2 Umezawa's Jitte in my 75
-Manlands are best at getting the last points of damage through (and Walking Ballista), but always think of Back to Basics when activating them - don't tap out if you can attack with a second Factory after B2B resolved
-Ravager and Ballista are a nice combination to turn your board into direct damage when Terminus is on the stack
Here my list (mostly the same from earlier posts):
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
2 Inventors' Fair
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Walking Ballista
4 Vault Skirge
4 Steel Overseer
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Etched Champion
3 Lodestone Golem
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
Sideboard:
3 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Etched Champion
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Leyline of the Void
Greetings
@ Hinterweltler: Thanks for your input, but i have some questions for you
1. Do you really like lodestone golem in the MU against Miracles? I think most of the time we expent to much resources to cast it and as a creature its to easy to handle for them. I aggree on Thorn of Amythist. At the moment i run 3 main and 1 in the sb.
2. How good is Etched champion and Sofi? My plan at the moment is 2 Smugglers Copter and Chief of the foundry, which works quiet well. And why jitte against Miracles?
3. What are you taking out in the Matchup?
Lodestone Golem is important as another taxing effect. Without it, you have 7 taxing effects (4 Chalices, 3 Spheres) but I recommend to have 10 at least.
The plan of Etched Champion (with Metalcraft) + Equipment is strong for sure - that is why I would at least think about boarding the Jitte.
Overall, my boarding plan looks like:
Out:
4 Vault Skirge
2 Phyrexian Revoker / Steel Overseer
In:
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Etched Champion
1 Karn
The Vault Skirges are tempo-advantages, thereby unnecessary in this MU I think. You don't fear to be raced, but to be pushed out of the game via Terminus. Boarding out Revoker or Overseer is a matter of taste - you won't have targets for Revoker that often, and Overseer looks quite horrible against StP and Terminus.
The Ratchet Bombs are for B2B, though I'll cast it as soon as possible and tick it up to 3.
If I want more equipment (maybe in game 3), I'd probably board out more Overseers. A charged Jitte makes up for the lack of +1/+1 counters, plus it gets rid of blue Ambush Vipers and non-prowessed Monks.
So far, this plan showed to be quite effective (in testing). I played like 10 games last time, and I remember it to be like 50/50. Just don't scoop it up if you fall behind - this deck has ways to come back. There was a game when I had 0 nonlands after a Terminus - then I drew Chalice, then Thorn, then had Metalcraft up with a Darksteel Citadel (no Karakas yet) and Inventors' Fair. Though I tutored SoFI, and every tiny robot I drew turned into a lethal threat. I won that game with Factory beats.
Greetings
After the Testing yesterday, i have to consider another bad MU (Grixis Control).
In my experience Miracles and Grixis Control are bad MUs, but i think both MUs can be solved via the same Sideboard cards Karn, Scion of Urza.
Here is my current Decklist:
4 Walking Ballista
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Vault Skirge
3 Chief of the Foundry 23
3 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Petal
2 Smuggler`s Copter
3 Thorn of Amythist
4 Chalice of the Void 16
Lands (21):
1 Inventor`s Fair
2 Karakas
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra`s Factory
2 Tower of the Magistrate
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
2 Spellskite
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Thorn of Amythist
Against Miracles:
- 4 Lotus Petal
- 1 Revoker
+ 4 Karn
+ 1 Thorn of Amythist
Grixis Control
- 3 Thorn of Amythist
- 1 Karakas
- 2 Lotus Petal
+ 2 Spellskite
+ 4 Karn
Thoughts??
I like seeing other players using copters aswell, it's been one of the most solid beaters since I first included it. For the Grixis Control MU I'd opt for Hangarback Walkers first and foremost, but since I'm on a skirgeless 4-Karn list... It's a lot easier to find room for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
Karn should do it nontheless, never lost a game vs Grixis when resolving him.
What do you have Tower o M for?
@Tucane:
Tower of the Magistrate are in the deck for two reasons.
1. Attack into Baleful strix and give the blocked Creature protection
2. Give opposing Creatures, wich are equipped, protection so that the equitment falls of. Mainly Batterskull (SFM)
In cornercase scenarios it breaks the mirror and wins against MUD, but the two reasons listed above are what made them make the list
It might be more Useful to play more manlands, but the towers impressed me against Strix so much, that i will keep them
Btw. Copter is a great Cardselection Tool and with chief its bolt- and Delverproof
Is there a reason nobody plays Warping Wail? It counters stuff like terminus and show and tell while also can be removal for problem creatures from the opponent like a revoker or something.
the problem with Warping vail is:
holding up mana to counter terminus hurts your own development to much. If you hold up mana, then B2B beats you all the time. And the nonbo with Thorn is sigificant.
Countering show and tell is unnecessary, because bridge and thorn can beat sneak and show by itself
to your point Vail as a removel: Its a very good Removel for revoker and sfm, but the most problematic creatures are uneffected by the Vail. Mentor, TNN, flipped delver, tarmogoyf, angler
So the plan against Miracles is just to play lock pieces and then try to tip toe around terminus?Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
the plan is playing lock pices and as much threats as possible, that aren`t effected by terminus (Mishra`s Factory, Karn, Copter)
and while doing that aply as much pressure as you can