In wich MU would you board Jin? I can't see him being very usefull.
Printable View
In wich MU would you board Jin? I can't see him being very usefull.
What i'd like to know is why running 3 icorid main and 1 SB and the same for DR. Why not 4-3 main?? In what cases do you side them in??
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd_lawl
where and when did you bring in serenity, how good was it for you? i mean it destroys affinity. anything else that it is good against?
Hmm, Ichorids aren't really used when you combo off fast with LED. That's why there's only 3 in MD. The 4th comes when you really need Ichorids (aka blue decks). Same for the 3rd Dread Return (usually board it in along with Iona and/or Elesh). I usually go for:Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenCid
-3 Breakthrough, -1 Hapless Researcher, -1 Flame-kin Zealot, -1 Woodfall Primus -> +3 Firestorm, +1 Ichorid, +1 Elesh Norn, +1 Dread Return against Merfolk.
-3 Breakthrough -> +1 Ichorid, +1 Dread Return, +1 Iona/Jin-Gitaxias against other blue/control decks.
About Jin-Gitaxias, he seems pretty fine against Storm and Merfolk (maybe Show and Tell), which runs few or no removal at all. Still, he often can live until your end step, dreding your whole library... If he stays until your opponent's endstep, it's pretty devastating. Still, he could just eat Swords to Plowshares in my testing :/
Vandalize, I really like the list you posted. Once I get my hands on a playset of LEDs I'll be trying that build out over the OP. Seems to have all the goodies that I'm looking for. How is your combo MU with that build? Do you not sideboard in any answers to GY hate like a Relic from Merfolk?
enchantress, land, MUD, Painted stone, any kind of enlightened tutor deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasDowd
Leyline of Sanctity protects you from Crypt/Ravenous Trap/Bojuka Bog. The Nature's Claim comes to fight Relic/Leyline of the Void. But if you're worried about Relic, just pack some Ancient Grudges as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by daugarten
Well, my combo MU is not bad. G1 is a race, whoever combo out first win (sometimes you can punch them into a AdN suicide). G2/G3 is a little better, you can side in Iona, Jin-Gitaxias and Leylines of Sanctity. Still, you need a fast clock.
What DR targets should be run in the board? I have an Iona, Realm Razor, Elesh Norn, Terastadon, Ancestors Chosen, and a Sadistic Hypnotist.
Mmm...this is not true. When you go off with led 3 or 4 ichorid do not make the different because you didn't change the quantity if dredgers. You can go with LED, coliseum, Gitaxian / Street wraith, draw anything, and then go off. Maybe i didn't understand properly your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
For the LEDless versions, what do you guys think of 3 or so Firestorms main? With the meta being so heavily influenced by MM it seems like an uncountable outlet allows us to play a little more aggressively game 1. Even against decks like Zoo, which don't run MM, firestorm kills their dude and still works as a good outlet. Plus, it frees up some sideboard slots. I was thinking of cutting some Pimps for them.
edit: a few more questions:
Why does FKZ seem to not be played at all in the LEDless versions but in the LED version it seems more popular? Is the 3rd citadel better than FKZ?
how does this seem for a board(I play 1 Elesh Norn maindeck as a DR target):
1 Angel of Despair
1 Terrastodon (Most unsure of this slot)
4 Firestorm (thinking of moving to main)
1 darkblast
1 ancient grudge
2 leyline of the void
1 Ichorid
4 leyline of sanctity
my plain with this board involves being a little more reactive.
Something like this:
vs Fish:
-2 Careful Study
-1 Breakthrough
-2 Cabal therapy
+4 Firestorm
+1 Ichorid
If I think they're running crypt not Relic:
-2 Careful Study
-4 Breakthrough
-3 Cabal therapy
+4 Firestorm
+1 Ichorid
+4 Leyline of Sanctity
I plain to be fairly reactive.
I'm fairly shaky on this board.
In the face of yard hate do you guys find yourself boarding out Breakthrough and playing a much slower game? Or do you just try to overwhelm them?
I wouldn't drop all my draw spells against merfolks, they are to fast for you to try to rush them with "draw step dredging" strategy. Try to balance what you side out.
Newbie question: Why doesnt Serum Powder play in legacy?
Decklist is too tight, and unlike vintage we don't play maindeck Leylines and, more importantly, we don't have bazaar. If Bazaar was legal in legacy, i could easily see runing Serum Powder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godmode
That's exactly what I said. We don't need 4 Ichorids in G1, because you usually go off without them. The fourth Ichorid goes to sideboard to make space to a DR target (Woodfall Primus, in my case).Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenCid
When you need the 4th Ichorid, just board him in.
Great article by Matt Elias:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...rix-Providence
I was playing dredge last weekend at a local tournament and went 1-2-1 and should have gone at least 2-1-1 if it weren't for some bad play mistakes. There's not much dredge at my local meta but it seems that everybody's packing at least 3 relic of progenitus in their sideboard and some even maindeck it. I've had a lot of scenarios where it's game 2 and I'm on the draw and my 7 card hand has something like a therapy, dredgerx2, land, discard outlet and other stuff that's not relevant. My opponent then goes land, relic, go. What would your plan be now if the opponent was playing something like merfolk/landstill? would you abandon the DDD plan and then try to stick a discard outlet or cast a careful study and see if they counter? Or is there some other plan that i'm just not seeing? I'm playing with the following sideboard if it makes a difference:
3 Winds of Change
3 Firestorm
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Blightsteel Colossus
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Ichorid
1 Angel of Despair
I'm just frustrated that I'm losing to decks that only has 3 graveyard removal when usually it takes a lot more to beat a dredge deck.
Thats the reason why I dislike that sideboard plan. Against everything non-blue you obviously just stick the outlet first. Against something blue it gets tricky: since when you DDD they just tap relic to make you remove it, I would try a study before just running a discard outlet into a daze or MM. I have had many opponents that kept bad hands because it had 1 or 2 pieces of hate in it, or because it had sick ammounts of countermagic in it. If he has both it gets tricky, but that does not really change the gameplan. I really like grudges, I would not leave home without 4 of em in my sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by pocari79
Please correct me if I'm wrong :)!
I'm new at playing dredge. I have read lots of articles about it, but I still have a problem in one specific type of games.
I don't know how I have to focus a game where I only can dredge one card per turn, because my oponent is cutting my draw spells, I haven't drawn them or for whatever reason.
When you only dredge once per turn, usually you don't put enough pressure to beat any opponent. Probably you only dredge one ichorid, a narco and a bridge and it isn't enought to beat almost none of the decks in this format. Your opponent can control you easely with a tarmogoyf + swords to ploshares and blow out all your threads.
Can anyone explain to me, how I have to focus this kind of games?
I'm new at playing dredge. I have read lots of articles about it, but I still have a problem in one specific type of games.
I don't know how I have to focus a game where I only can dredge one card per turn, because my oponent is cutting my draw spells, I haven't drawn them or for whatever reason.
When you only dredge once per turn, usually you don't put enough pressure to beat any opponent. Probably you only dredge one ichorid, a narco and a bridge and it isn't enought to beat almost none of the decks in this format. Your opponent can control you easely with a tarmogoyf + swords to ploshares and blow out all your threads.
Can anyone explain to me, how I have to focus this kind of games?
If you're playing against Control.dec just DDD and be happy. 1 Dredge per turn is fine, since they don't have an actual clock.Quote:
Originally Posted by xikitins
If you're playing some Tempo.dec like TA or Threshold, you should go for Cabal Therapy. If the worst happen (they counter your Cabal Therapy and Wasteland your land), you can just go back to DDD. Beware that TA might run Leyline of the Void, which makes things hard.
If you're playing anything non-blue, just go for it. Rock/Deadguy Ale have a lot of discard spells, which we don't give a fuck about (it's actually some help), just be careful with Swords to Plowshares... We have a really faster clock.
Uh, Editing this post because I wanted to avoid double posting:
Just updated my LED Dredge into a list that makes me very confortable:
Lands [11]
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
3 Cephalid Coliseum
Dredgers [11]
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
Creatures [16]
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
3 Ichorid
3 Street Wraith
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Flame-kin Zealot
Spells [22]
4 Bridge From Below
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Deep Analysis
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Dread Return
Sideboard [15]
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Ancient Grudge
3 Nature's Claim
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Ichorid
1 Dread Return
Cut the MD Hapless Researcher because he sucks (always did). Added the 3rd Street Wraith on his spot (useful when you board the 4th Ichorid)... Also gave up on Firestorms... They usually lead me to poor mulligan decisions that cost me several games, and it's not a "OMG H4XZ0R SWEEPER". Didn't regret it so far. Just added back the usual anti-Graveyard-Hate... I was missing my Grudges so badly (I was pretty sad when I lost to a single Relic of Progenitus) :(
Perhaps those Grudges should be Pithing Needle... Pernicious Deed, AEther Vial and Stoneforge Mystic are really popular nowdays. Still, the grudges are doing fine.