[Deck] GW/x Maverick

My latest list looks like this:

PUNISHING MAV

Creatures:
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Thrun, the Last Troll /23

Spells:
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Punishing Fire
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Light and Shadow /16

Lands:
3 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland /21

Sideboard:
3 Pyroblast
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Life from the Loam
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kitchen Finks /15

I really love the Thalias. They help not only against stormcombo, but also against the very popular RUG Tempo decks out there. Punishing Fire is also nice there. I'm looking forward to playing this on my next tourney. Any advice so far?

The one card Rukcus suggested, Silhana Ledgewalker is one HELL of a card to fight against when equipped with a sword.

I played against it with a RUG tempo and a RUW tempo deck and this guy was MVP each game.

There's not much you can do to that guy in many decks.

Seems people are really enamored with Punishing Fire build, but I still prefer the strict GW version. Here's my list since several people are asking for it:

Dudes
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Silhana Ledgewalker
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Terravore
1 Eternal Witness
1 Dryad Arbor

Non-dudes
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of X & Y
1 Batterskull
1 Sylvan Library
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Lands
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Green-fetchlands
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains

SB:
2-3 Choke
2-3 Path to Exile
1-2 Planeswalkers (Garruk 3.0 & Elspeth likely)
1 Sword of Light & Shadow
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Krosan Grip
2-3 Ethersworn Canonist

meta dependent:
Life from the Loam
Thorn of Amethyst
Oblivion Ring
Pithing Needle
Enlightened Tutor
COP: Red
Phyrexian Metamorph
Tormod's Crypt
Surgical Extraction
Serenity/Energy Flux
Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce (subbing 1 Savannah for 1 Tropical Island MD)

That is exactly my list as well. Ledgewalker is just amazing at the moment, although at times I do wish I had a Thrun.

I ended up cutting Thrun for Elspeth. I was never really happy with Thrun in most matchups, and Elspeth provides other ways to address thos dificult matchups. They both shine against Jace decks, and both are great against Deed decks. I like that Elspeth can just end games quickly rather than stall like Thrun does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rukcus

I ended up cutting Thrun for Elspeth. I was never really happy with Thrun in most matchups, and Elspeth provides other ways to address thos dificult matchups. They both shine against Jace decks, and both are great against Deed decks. I like that Elspeth can just end games quickly rather than stall like Thrun does.

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I was already running Elspeth. Both would be great. I'm debating cutting a pridemage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rukcus

I ended up cutting Thrun for Elspeth. I was never really happy with Thrun in most matchups, and Elspeth provides other ways to address thos dificult matchups. They both shine against Jace decks, and both are great against Deed decks. I like that Elspeth can just end games quickly rather than stall like Thrun does.

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Yeah, Elspeth is great, you should probably run something more than a singleton you have one card to help you find.

Honestly, why are people building this deck so haphazardly? Stop sticking in random one ofs you can't even tutor for. I mean it would be one thing if these lists were running more ways to dig, but a lot of people leaning way too heavily on luck.

Also not sure why 3x SFM 2x targets has become the norm; I know I didn't like playing [cards]Squire[/card] after raw-drawing an equipment and a second Stoneforge when I was running them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

Yeah, Elspeth is great, you should probably run something more than a singleton you have one card to help you find.

Honestly, why are people building this deck so haphazardly? Stop sticking in random one ofs you can't even tutor for. I mean it would be one thing if these lists were running more ways to dig, but a lot of people leaning way too heavily on luck.

Also not sure why 3x SFM 2x targets has become the norm; I know I didn't like playing [cards]Squire[/card] after raw-drawing an equipment and a second Stoneforge when I was running them.

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My philosophy on the deck is to have a inch-thick, mile-wide threat base in the Maindeck, then fix up the deck during SB games to the matchup at hand. That's why I'm including 1-2 extra PWers in the SB. Also, the deck is currently running 3 SFM with 3 targets (1 SB). There are some matchups where I board into the 4th equipment rather than just replace it.

I've also approached this deck with somewhat a mana curve in consideration. I would rather maintain a lower curve than have a bunch of 4 drops stuck in my hand that I can only cast one per turn. Running multiple Elspeths has caused this issue for me in the past. This is considered together with playing a minor Mana denial plan with 4 Wastelands.

There is no doubt that Sylvan Library and Elspeth are powerful in a vacuum. Other decks could justifiably run more to see them more frequently. My experience with this deck has shown me that multiple Sylvan Library's and Elspeth to be more a hinderance than benefit.

Oh, you're right, missed the B-Skull. My bad. I generally only look for Swords and Jitte as I strenuously disagree with the running of Batterskull in a deck this creature heavy and that's interested in earlier wins. I mean I don't even want it maindeck in my build if I do switch back to SFM, and I'm running a much more control heavy build than most lists I've seen, I think.

The mana curve is a fair point and one reason I found it beneficial to cut SFM for just more Jittes, since SFM pads the amount of mana you're playing to get a toy online, even if it is over several turns.

Avoiding dead multiples is also why I split up Tops and Libraries; it increases odds greatly of drawing a way to control your draw step while letting you usually throw away multiples (barring drawing both Libraries, which should be rare.)

I can dig the Tops/Library symmetry for this type of deck. I wouldn't even fault anyone for including more Tops and adding Squadron Hawk to the list. Flyers are still fucking great in this format. Until the point where SFM is banned or completely marginalized, I wouldn't run it myself however. The Hawk strategy is better suited with AEther Vial.

EDIT: Jack - based on your list, I would even consider playing with Cataclysm. It seems better suited than Armageddon against a wide variety of decks. It might be a good card to test in your version.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

Yeah, Elspeth is great, you should probably run something more than a singleton you have one card to help you find.

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This is valid. I think there's not a lot of room for 4-drops in this deck, and if I have to choose between Elspeth and Thrun, I'd rather have one of each. Although, with UW decks starting to pack Elspeth and Wrath of God, cutting Thrun entirely and jamming in more Planeswalkers may just be the right move.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

Honestly, why are people building this deck so haphazardly? Stop sticking in random one ofs you can't even tutor for. I mean it would be one thing if these lists were running more ways to dig, but a lot of people leaning way too heavily on luck.

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The only one-ofs that I endorse that aren't green creatures or equipments are Sylvan Library and Elspeth (if you're not running more than one). Elspeth has more merit in multiples, I think, and I never want to see more than one Library, but I'm always happy to see exactly one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

Also not sure why 3x SFM 2x targets has become the norm; I know I didn't like playing [cards]Squire[/card] after raw-drawing an equipment and a second Stoneforge when I was running them.

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Agreed wholeheartedly. Three SFM targets is a must.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rukcus

Path to Exile, Equipment, Mother of Runes, KotR, StP, Sylvan Library, planeswalkers.

In short, all the usual tools we already have in our disposal. Batterskull is really good in this matchup to pad the life total. A typical metric as to whether you'll be winning the game is whether you can survive to the mid-game with a life total above 10. The biggest challenge against Zoo is dealing with the first 3 turns of their aggression.

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thanks for the reply! In my region there are many aggro decks and a few blues, and I was thinking of putting something in the sb to resist the first 3 turns in place of 2x choke, what do you think best:
Dueling Grounds - synergy with maze
Ghostly Prison - synergy with wasteland and thalia
(I can use 2x of them or 2x E.tutor +1x enchantment)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maktus

thanks for the reply! In my region there are many aggro decks and a few blues, and I was thinking of putting something in the sb to resist the first 3 turns in place of 2x choke, what do you think best:
Dueling Grounds - synergy with maze
Ghostly Prison - synergy with wasteland and thalia
(I can use 2x of them or 2x E.tutor +1x enchantment)

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It depends on which type of Zoo you're facing. Some are closer to Sligh, while others are close to Maverick (kotr, Punishing Fires, etc). Extra spot removal is good, as well as the planeswalkers. Oddly enough, I found Thrun to be very effective against Zoo as a defensive wall. Playing your own Goyfs also help in this battle.

You can also sideboard in SoLaS like the list ruckus posted above as it gives color protection vs Helix + Path. The lifegain + returning creature to hand (there will be one in your grave almost 100% of the time) are all revelant abilities.

@ruckus Are the 2 Krosan Grips simply for the metagame (Deed using decks) in your area? It just seems like 3 Pridemage + 4 GSZ MD is enough and having 2 more 3cc cost cards may be a little much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiniLuv

You can also sideboard in SoLaS like the list ruckus posted above as it gives color protection vs Helix + Path. The lifegain + returning creature to hand (there will be one in your grave almost 100% of the time) are all revelant abilities.

@ruckus Are the 2 Krosan Grips simply for the metagame (Deed using decks) in your area? It just seems like 3 Pridemage + 4 GSZ MD is enough and having 2 more 3cc cost cards may be a little much.

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At this point I'm gearing up for the Grand Prix, so I'm expecting a wide open metagame. That means expecting completely random archetypes like Counterbalance, Affinity, Enchantress, Burn/RDW, Zoo, Hive Mind, as well as all the usual suspects. Having additional removal against Equipment that are Instant speed is also of good use. I would use Nature's Claim, but it is soft to Counterbalance too.

Humility is a big concern - that's one reason to consider Krosan Grip.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rukcus

Seems people are really enamored with Punishing Fire build, but I still prefer the strict GW version. Here's my list since several people are asking for it:

Dudes
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Silhana Ledgewalker
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Terravore
1 Eternal Witness
1 Dryad Arbor

Non-dudes
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of X & Y
1 Batterskull
1 Sylvan Library
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Lands
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Green-fetchlands
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains

SB:
2-3 Choke
2-3 Path to Exile
1-2 Planeswalkers (Garruk 3.0 & Elspeth likely)
1 Sword of Light & Shadow
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Krosan Grip
2-3 Ethersworn Canonist

meta dependent:
Life from the Loam
Thorn of Amethyst
Oblivion Ring
Pithing Needle
Enlightened Tutor
COP: Red
Phyrexian Metamorph
Tormod's Crypt
Surgical Extraction
Serenity/Energy Flux
Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce (subbing 1 Savannah for 1 Tropical Island MD)

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My List:
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of F+I
1 Batterskull
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills (to trick them into thinking there are P-Fire in my list :P)
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains

MAINDECK DIFFERENCES
-1 Noble Hierarch
-1 Qasali Pridemage
-1 Scavenging Ooze
-1 Silhana Ledgewalker
-1 Terravore


+1 Birds of Paradise
+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Stoneforge Mystic
+1 Thrun, the Last Troll
+1 Maze of Ith


SIBEBOARD:
3x Path to Exile
3x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Choke
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Krosan Grip
1x Stony Silence
1x Life from the Loam

Changes I like about your list:
Ledgewalker looks really good, and I might try removing a Stoneforge for her. I run 4 Stoneforges, as my rational is that they can not be picked up with Zenith, so I want every possible chance of getting them. There shuffle effect is very strong with Sylvan Library too, which is why I run 2 copies.
The Ooze differences is a meta thing. I have a second ooze, but I'm not grabbing it enough to run a second. Terravore is the same thing; just no reason in my meta.
I've tried both 4x Hierarch and 3x Hierarch/1x BoP. Exalted is very powerful, but I like having the out with BoP to hold a sword/Jitte, especially as I maximize on SFM (it also chumps all sorts of legends). I may bring up the Hierarchs and cut the Maze of Ith, just to help maximize on exalted triggers (poor judge promo maze).
Some lists like Thrun, some don't; total preference. For me, he's worth the slot. Actually, he helped me pull tricks with GSZ the other day: Playing versus UW Stoneblade game 2, Play GSZ on 4, he knew I had Thrun, but I was tapping out. I figured he boarded in Wraths, pulled out my Teeg. GSZ tricks won that game, because he had 0 board presence, and no way to beat onboard Mom and Teeg. After the game, he confirmed that he lost, because he was going all in on Wrath. GSZ tricks are huge.

Sideboard differs a bit; you have less graveyard hate then me, but Bog is huge. Used to run it, but went with Relic of Progenitus and 2x Crypt. Thinking about going to 1x Bog, 2x Crypt, and cutting Tutor and Choke for Sword of Light and Shadow and Elsepth/Garruk. Tutor is okay, but it's not that important to me. Haven't had a chance to test out Stony Silence, but should be fine for what I want it to do.

Love the deck though, but I think it better tuned to your meta than mine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rukcus

Humility is a big concern - that's one reason to consider Krosan Grip.

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I disagree with this statement. We have a metric fuckton of threats, and even with Humility out we can leverage value over UW opponents by (a) having more 1/1 guys than them, (b) having up to 4 equipments after sideboard to make our guys bigger than theirs (and with Jitte, SoFI and SoLS we gain card advantage too), and (c) playing our own Elspeths to keep them from blowing us out with theirs and also blowing them out if they fail to draw theirs.

Humility is the least of our worries, IMO.

Also, I've decided to try Worship as a 1-of in my E. Tutor board to handle both Burn and Affinity in one go, as that card worked extremely well for me in Extended a few seasons ago when the meta was very similar to what we have in Legacy now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by majikal

I disagree with this statement. We have a metric fuckton of threats, and even with Humility out we can leverage value over UW opponents by (a) having more 1/1 guys than them, (b) having up to 4 equipments after sideboard to make our guys bigger than theirs (and with Jitte, SoFI and SoLS we gain card advantage too), and (c) playing our own Elspeths to keep them from blowing us out with theirs and also blowing them out if they fail to draw theirs.

Humility is the least of our worries, IMO.

Also, I've decided to try Worship as a 1-of in my E. Tutor board to handle both Burn and Affinity in one go, as that card worked extremely well for me in Extended a few seasons ago when the meta was very similar to what we have in Legacy now.

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I actually do think Humility is a concern. You are unable to blow it up with Pridemage. You will be caught between overextending into Wrath of God and maintaining board presence with a bunch of 1/1's. They can card filter their way into drawing the board sweeper, Jace/Elspeth, more removal, and sealing the game with manlands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiniLuv

I actually do think Humility is a concern. You are unable to blow it up with Pridemage. You will be caught between overextending into Wrath of God and maintaining board presence with a bunch of 1/1's. They can card filter their way into drawing the board sweeper, Jace/Elspeth, more removal, and sealing the game with manlands.

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Manlands can be problematic, but we do have Wasteland.

I mean, Humility is a concern, but it's not a major concern. Equipment + Elspeth really makes it easy to blow through a Humility, and that's easily 4-5 maindecked answers + whatever out of the board. Krosan Grip helps, and it gets rid of the problem immediately, but I'm not sure it's actually necessary for the simple reason that we have, for the most part, the same tools that decks packing Humility use to break its symmetry.

I will be including Krosan Grip/Seal of Cleansing/Primordium in my future SB plans as a multi angle approach. I might swap one with Oblivion Ring, but I definitely want a way to deal with problematic Artifacts & Enchantments. Blood Moon can be a total blow out early on and fighting equipment outside the stack is really nice.

Thoughts on Krosan Grip vs Seal vs O-Ring as the SB approach? (I'm thinking a max of 3 for this suite, and realistically 2-of)