[Deck] Jund

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Originally Posted by DOM

Elves never seemed to be a problem to me before and after sideboard. Pretty much everything you have in your deck sans creatures is bad for them (creatures are bad too, but they are not interactive). Post board I bring in 2x Engineered Plagues, 1x Golgari Charm, 1x Grafdigger's Cage, 1x Chains of Mephistopheles, 1x Umezawa's Jitte and remove 3x Bloodbraid Elves, 1x Life from the Loam, 1x Tarmogoyf and 1x Deathrite Shaman. Liliana is good post board because you can make them sacrifice a Progenitus if they managed to get through your removal, e.g. fetched a Dryad Arbor to feed to Natural Order. The most problematic creatures of theirs are Heritage Druid and Wirewood Symbionte, but once you kill them, Elves suddenly get left behind. Summa summarum, as long as you prioritize your targets, are not afraid to lose some extra life in the process (let them beat you with some less relevant creatures in order to deal with the more threatening ones that may soon appear on the battlefield) and have some relevant cards in your sideboard, you should be fine.

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I recently top 8ed a SCG IQ with Punshing Jund (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=78406). I have a few notes from the day as well as some of by sideboarding decisions if people are interested.

My only losses all day, one in swiss and in the top 8 were to elves. I think that the sideboard advice that DOM provided is fairly accurate. I left in Bloodbraid Elf during my sideboarded games and found them to be way too slow. Against one of the elves player I was able to get a turn one Grafdiggers cage, but still ended up dying to a pair of Deathrite Shamans that were being untapped by Wirewood Symbiotes.

Congrats Scott. I would love to hear your thoughts and notes. Err... *read* not *hear*.

Yeah, I would like to read your notes as well.

How did the Jund Charm in your SB work out for you?

Here is my writeup about my SCQ IQ top 8 I had mentioned previously:

Round 1: U/G Infect (2-1)

This matchup really is fairly favorable for Jund, however you just need to sandbag your removal spells for the correct time because they can kill you out of nowhere.

Game 1: Won this matchup with a Deathrite Shaman powered turn two Liliana getting his Noble Hierarch, followed up by using Punshing Fire to 1 for 1 his subsequent infectors.

Game 2: I was able to get him down fairly low, but didn't see a punishing fire during this game. He ended up killing me a turn before I could kill him with a Inkmoth Nexus that lived through a lightning bolt with Become Immense and Invigorate.

Game 3: On the play, I was able to get a quick start with a Tarmogoyf and one for one his infectors with Abrupt Decay and Lightning Bolt.

1-0


Round 2: Elves (0-2)

Game 1: He was on the play and got a very quick turn three glimpse turn before I was able to really even get online.

Game 2: I was able to get out a turn one Grafdigger's Cage, but was unable to get the Punshing Fire engine online through his two Deathrite Shamans. That combined with a few Wirewood Symbiotes were enough to get the job done.

1-1

Round 3: Affinity (2-0)

Punshing Fire really make this matchup very favorable. The key to this matchup is to ignore the cranial plating and any other artifacts and just kill each creature as they play it.

Game 1: During this game I was able to successfully one for one all of his threats with Punshing Fire and Abrupt Decay and kill him with Bloodbraid Elf into Tarmogoyf.

Game 2: This was one of the most interesting games of the day. He was able to get out most of his hand during his first turn. He quickly played a Memnite, Vault Skirge, with and a Master of etherium the next turn. While I was only able to get out a Dark Confidant and Tarmogoyf out to help control his attackers. On the next turn he was able to get out a Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, which was very bad for us. He plused Tezzeret over the next two turns, getting into play more threats including a Cranial Plating. He ended up ultimating his Tezzeret which put me down to 3 life, he was hoping to have the next Bob flip kill me. My Bob ended up flipping up a Deathrite Shaman, which was the perfect card for the situation. I played the Deathrite Shaman and over the next few turns was able to flip favorably while gaining two life during my upkeep to stay alive. This is where the card advantage of Bob took over and I was able to play multiple threats, kill his creatures, and finally ended it with giant Tarmogoyfs.

2-1

Round 4: UWr Miracles (1-0-1)

This is one of the most grindy matchups in all of Legacy. To be honest if you can just focus on winning game one it may just be good enough to win the match 1-0-1. Sylvan Library is one of the best cards in this match up, it really allows you to cycle through so many cards and find the key ones.

Game 1: I won this game on the back of Liliana of the Veil. I exhausted all of his counters with my threats like Deathrite and Tarmogoyf that he had to answer. Once he was in top deck mode I was able to stick a Liliana of the Veil and have her go ultimate. However, even that usually isn't enough to win the game because they typically have a pretty robust board position with many of each land type. Abrupt Decay was able to handle his Counterbalance and I was able to win off a Tarmogoyf that he couldn't find an answer for.

Game 2: By the time the first game was done we had about twenty minutes left in the round. The second game was equally as grindy, though I was again able to disrupt his Counterbalance package with Abrupt Decay and tag his top with my Krosan Grip. He resolved a Jace, the Mind Sculptor and was ticking it up, hoping to be able to force a game three. I was able to hold back the Jace with Punishing Fire long enough to stick my own Liliana and go ultimate with her. Again, the problem with Liliana here is that even with her going ultimate it isn't a guaranteed win, however I did make him sacrifice his Jace to the two piles. He eventually found entreat, however misplayed and had to cast it during his turn. I had been sandbagging a Toxic Deluge for a while and wiped his board, however I was able to kill him before time ran out.

3-1

Round 5: BUG Delver (2-0)

My opponent was a guy that I have play a few times at my LGS, so I knew he was on BUG Delver. This matchup is also fairly back-and-forth, however Punshing Fire can really steal a win.

Game 1: Game one was actually quite quick, I was able to get the Punishing Fire engine online and end the game rather quickly.

Game 2: This game took quite a bit longer than the first. We had a bit of back and forth between his two Delvers and some of my removal spells. Eventually we got to a locked board state where he had a Tarmogoyf and a True-Name Nemesis and I had a fairly large Scavenging Ooze and two Tarmogofys. What ended up breaking the stalemate was when he Abrupt Decayed my Sylvan Library leaving an opening for me to play my Liliana. The Liliana ended up taking out a second True-Name Nemesis he played in combination with Punishing Fire to attack into his Tarmogoyfs with my own. The Ooze here was fantastic at keeping him off of Treasure Cruise which kept his card advantage in check.

4-1

Round 6: Elves (ID)

We both looked at the standings and were able to draw into the top 8.

4-1-1

TOP 8:

Everyone in the top 8 ended up splitting the prizes and then playing for the Invitation. This was the same Elves player that I had drawn with to get into the top 8. I had watch him play a bit and knew that he was on a fairly traditional build of Elves.

Game 1: This game was very similar to my other match against Elves. I had a fairly well paced setup, but he was able to have a pretty big turn four and go off with a Craterhoof Behemoth.

Game: 2: I may a very egregious misplay in this match which definitely cost me the game. On turn four he cast a glimpse with a pretty modest board presence. I left him resolve it with a Surgical Extraction in hand. However, what I didn't know was the fact that he would draw a second one. He ended up casting the second one and by then it was too late. I ended up casting the Surgical on the Glimpse in hope of him bricking. Oddly enough he actually did end up bricking because he didn't find any of his Nettle Sentinels. This gave me an opening on the following turn to cast my Golgari Charm and a Jund Charm the next turn. However, he was able to bounce the majority of his important cards to save them. The next turn he was able to hardcast a Craterhoof Behemoth and that was the end of my tournament.


Final Thoughts:

Before the tournament I had put the Jund Charm in my sideboard, because I was going into a relatively unknown meta and thought that this card was fairly versitile. However Jund Charm was sort of a let down and I think I would have preferred to have something like Pithing Needle or a second Sylvan Library there. I would say that the Punishing Fire engine was the reason for winning the majority of the matches. It was able to kill opposing infectors, delvers, and even managing to keep a JTMS from going ultimate.

With TC banned discard is more viable again. I have a bad feeling UWR Delver is going to be popular and that is a rather miserable matchup for me in Reanimator. So I might as well get some experience with good ol' Jund again. The problem is nothing really new has been printed to help strengthen the deck. The list I've been using has been largely unchanged since TNN's printing where I added Imperial Edict.

yep, with more uwr we are looking better. with rug back on top some of our degenerate adversaries will have to go back from whence they came, tilting the field in our favor. also ur was a pain, I am happy with todays news.

Sent from my KFARWI using Forum Fiend v1.2.14.

I still maintain Treasure Cruise was never a problem for Jund. This changes the format significantly, but I don't think it will elevate or deflate Jund in any significant way.

I *think*. I could be wrong, and often am.

ps: Worldgorger Dragon being unbanned is funny for this thread.

Deathrite Shaman. Good game.

And if youre playing the 1-of Ooze its even worse. Or decay should be able to break it up.

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Originally Posted by razvan

I still maintain Treasure Cruise was never a problem for Jund. This changes the format significantly, but I don't think it will elevate or deflate Jund in any significant way.

I *think*. I could be wrong, and often am.

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I believe that the power level of Hymn and Liliana increase significantly which is good for Jund. However, if Miracles returns as the Top Deck, then it probably doesn't do much for Jund's standings. We will just have to see how the Meta shifts post Treasure Cruise.

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Originally Posted by DudeItsCorey

I believe that the power level of Hymn and Liliana increase significantly which is good for Jund. However, if Miracles returns as the Top Deck, then it probably doesn't do much for Jund's standings. We will just have to see how the Meta shifts post Treasure Cruise.

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I think that the matchup for Miracles isn't terrible for Jund, however with the decrease of Delver strategies combo will probably make a comeback. The downside for that is fewer decks for us to prey upon. The upside, like you said, is that discard in the form of Liliana and Hymn are very good again. I think the meta will probably be fairly similar to the meta prior to Khans.

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Originally Posted by skyout

I think that the matchup for Miracles isn't terrible for Jund, however with the decrease of Delver strategies combo will probably make a comeback. The downside for that is fewer decks for us to prey upon. The upside, like you said, is that discard in the form of Liliana and Hymn are very good again. I think the meta will probably be fairly similar to the meta prior to Khans.

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It is interesting that you feel that way, I feel as though combo had a resurgence due to UR Delver being weak to it. Now that all of the UWRs/BUGs/RUGs are going to be packing spell pierce again, I think it will actually suppress combo somewhat. That being said, we will have to see.

I am personally excited to not have to worry about delver drawing 3 out of the blue anymore.

I'm trying to dust off Jund but I haven't changed the decklist since almost June of last year. So I tried making changes in anticipation for the post Khans meta. UWR Delver is coming back so I expect Misty into Batterskull. The D&T guy is back playing death and taxes so plague is in again, but I'm not too fond of the card. Is engineered plague good in other matchups? Merfolk and Goblins don't exist in my meta and I'm considering running Dread of Night instead, so my Dark Confidants can live through the hate.

Goblin Rabblemaster right now is a one of testing card.



Main Deck (60)
Creatures (16)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Bloodbraid Elf
Spells (21)
1 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Sylvan Library
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (23)
1 Forest
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
3 Badlands
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wasteland
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard (15)
1 Extirpate
1 Pyroblast
2 Pithing Needle
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Golgari Charm
1 Imperial Edict
1 Life from the Loam
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Engineered Plague
2 Pernicious Deed

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Originally Posted by ironclad8690

It is interesting that you feel that way, I feel as though combo had a resurgence due to UR Delver being weak to it. Now that all of the UWRs/BUGs/RUGs are going to be packing spell pierce again, I think it will actually suppress combo somewhat. That being said, we will have to see.

I am personally excited to not have to worry about delver drawing 3 out of the blue anymore.

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You are probably correct, my view may be more skewed by my local meta than anything else. There is a ton of combo, especially elves and storm, therefore when I see fair decks where I'm not a huge underdog I feel pretty confidant.

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Originally Posted by Nuke is Good

I'm trying to dust off Jund but I haven't changed the decklist since almost June of last year. So I tried making changes in anticipation for the post Khans meta. UWR Delver is coming back so I expect Misty into Batterskull. The D&T guy is back playing death and taxes so plague is in again, but I'm not too fond of the card. Is engineered plague good in other matchups? Merfolk and Goblins don't exist in my meta and I'm considering running Dread of Night instead, so my Dark Confidants can live through the hate.

Goblin Rabblemaster right now is a one of testing card.



Main Deck (60)
Creatures (16)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Bloodbraid Elf
Spells (21)
1 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Sylvan Library
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (23)
1 Forest
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
3 Badlands
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wasteland
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard (15)
1 Extirpate
1 Pyroblast
2 Pithing Needle
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Golgari Charm
1 Imperial Edict
1 Life from the Loam
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Engineered Plague
2 Pernicious Deed

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Regarding plague, it saves my ass against elves very frequently. I have almost debated dropping g charm just to have access to 3 in my board, but I cant bring myself to do it. Now with Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor though, I have even more reason to run plague which doesnt get blown out by any spells (as in the case of prowess and g charm)

Has anyone seen this? I've tried it a few times, it's not bad.

4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Stoneforge Mystic
[16]

3 Liliana of the Veil
[3]

1 Batterskull
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
1 Pyroblast
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
[18]


1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Arid Mesa
2 Badlands
1 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plateau
3 Scrubland
1 Karakas
[23]

Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priest
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Engineered Plague
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Wear
2 Slaughter Games

So while treasure was legal I dropped BBE from the deck to lower the curve and negate some of the life loss with bob and used Goblin Rabblemaster in BBE's place. I switched back to BBE recently but I gotta say I think I prefer the Goblin as he just closes a game so damn quick once you get an opponent on top deck mode. Also I still get those moments where BBE sits there in hand uselessly so I'm probably going to proceed with the rabblemaster from here on out. Here is the decklist I am currently running:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Goblin Rabblemaster

4 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Punishing Fire
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sylvan Library

3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Bayou
3 Badlands
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland

1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Plague
1 Golgari Charm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Choke
1 Krosan Grip
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Extirpate

I'll be trying this in the coming weeks:

SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge

2 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf

2 Toxic Deluge
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sylvan Library
3 Hymn to Tourach

3 Thoughtseize
3 Punishing Fire
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Abrupt Decay

3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Bayou
1 Taiga
3 Badlands
3 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Swamp

Has anyone ever toyed with Bind in Jund? I had never realized there was a green squelch. Could definitely catch people off guard with it on fetchlands and such, but it's probably just gimmicky

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Originally Posted by hovercraft

Has anyone ever toyed with Bind in Jund? I had never realized there was a green squelch. Could definitely catch people off guard with it on fetchlands and such, but it's probably just gimmicky

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I always wanted to try it, but it doesn't really synergize with Elf and I love Elf way too much to cut it. I know people have been stoked on Rabblemaster lately, but I still stand by BBE.

Teusday night legacy report at my local game store.

Round 1 vs. UWR Delver
Against any fair blue deck the game basically comes down to whether or not they can draw TNN and whether or not I have a way to remove it as its almost impossible for them to stick anything. Game 1 was a bit blurry, I remember him dazing a bob, swording a drs and then bolting a liliana after i made him sac a batterskull token. He resolves a TNN and I resolve one of the two remaining liliana's in my hand to make him sac it. I think I eventually close the game out with Goblin Rabblemaster. I side out 2 bolts, 1 pfire, 1 bob and 2 hymns for 1 pyroblast, 1 REB, 1 golgari charm, 1 Krosan grip, 1 ancient grudge and 1 chains of mephistopheles. Game 2 I suspect he isn't very experienced against jund(or maybe legacy) as he starts wastelanding a bayou and a badlands which imo isn't very smart as jund is very land heavy for a legacy deck and he wasn't aiming them at groves. Its very difficult to mana deny jund and the only deck that should try mana denial against jund is a loam deck like lands I feel. I resolve sylvan library on turn 3-4 and proceed to start grinding him down. He doesn't play much for the first 5 turns or so, so I suspect he has a very reactive hand which liliana discards confirms. I pay 8 life with library at one point going down to 8 trying to look for a way to close the game as he took out my first early threats. I eventually end the game at 1 life via 2 bolts from him and a fetchland from me. I had lili ulted him twice trying to get him off of red so he couldnnt kill me. I win the game with me with a handful of cards at 1 life and him with no cards in hand with a single volcanic island in play. So satisfying. MVP card in this MU: Liliana, 2-0

Round 2 vs. punishing jund
Game 1, I groan when he opens with bayou drs as I feel my biggest modification of jund (swapping BBE for goblin rabblemaster) makes me vulnerable in the mirror as the tempo from BBE should be strong and rabble dies to everything in jund's arsenal. This game is very long and let me tell you it isn't fun. Punishing jund mirror is the grindiest affair in the world b/c nothing lives and the only way to get damage across is who can pfire harder which takes a loooooong time. I don't remember these long drawn out games but I win both of them b/c I feel I prioritized my spells better than him. You should be very very judicious in your use of abrupt decay as pfire wont kill goyf and decay is the only way of removing the best card in the MU in sylvan library. Also again, another opponent using wasteland on non-grove lands which cost him in the end as it allowed me to pfire harder. I remember explicitly topdecking my first wasteland when he had 3 groves and 3 other lands in play and thought seriously on wasting his singleton badlands but I was rewarded richly by being disciplined enough to wasteland his grove b/c the game is going to go long and you will eventually draw the other wastelands (which i did). Jund SBs aren't geared for the mirror so the only thing to bring in from both sides is extirpate and maybe golgari charm/krosan grip for library to free up decay to go after something other than goyf/lili/library. Surprisingly Goblin Rabblemaster proved much more effective than I thought as the tokens constantly sneak in dmg as rabble allows you to go a little wider in the MU. Afterwards we both talk about our configurations and we both are displeased with BBE's performance in the deck as he is just too slow and not really needed for CA as jund is a 2 for 1 machine already. I mention to him how rabble has been excellent for me in place of BBE as he closes a game very fast for a fair deck and isn't effected by gy hate. MVP card in this MU: Sylvan Library, 2-0

Round 3 vs punishing jund...again
I groan as I realize I'm facing the mirror again. I end up steam rolling this kid b/c he's doing all the wrong things I mentioned earlier, wasting non-grove lands, decay on something other than goyf/library. I figured he went undefeated by just facing delver twice in a row or something but his prioritizing removal wrong cost him and I take advantage of that. MVP card in this MU: Wasteland, 2-0

3-0 which I'm happy with as this is the 4th week in a row that I've gone at least 2-1 with punishing jund. Deck list below

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Punishing Fire
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sylvan Library
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Bayou
3 Badlands
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Wasteland

1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Plague
1 Golgari Charm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Choke
1 Krosan Grip
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Extirpate

Considering dropping Choke as all it makes a blue opponent do is stop casting cantrips until they draw there TNN/Show and Tell/JTMS and chains is just better at stopping cantrips. Considering a 3rd Extirpate as that card is just soo good at what jund is weak to, grindier decks than jund like lands and combo decks.