Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
uncletiggy
Play the militant bobmans its worth the slot and good in matches you wouldnt bring extripate effects in.
Militant is a solid choice instead of 3rd Extirpate.
Still in doubt between 2x Liliana of thr Veil OR 1x Dragonlord Dromoka and 1x Council's Judgement... Also bothered i couldn't fit Vraska, but thats probably pushing it. I feel that running Liliana makes the list more capable of fighting combo and with Council/Dromoka it has a better aggro/control MU. Council also can get rid of big artifacts run in MUD. And with a second beefy flyer one is always safe. Running Vraska instead of Council's Judgement might be awesome aswell. BUT given that the field might be filled with a lot of combo and the combination with Path to Exile might make 2x Liliana the best choice.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Hands down purely a meta call if its a local and everyone is on miracles and sultai then the dromoka judgement split is fine. In a large 6-7 rnd tournament take the lilis. The question you need to ask is whether elspeth is better then nightmare. Elspeth is better in a vacuum nightmare wins games you could otherwise be locked out of the combat phase.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
uncletiggy
Hands down purely a meta call if its a local and everyone is on miracles and sultai then the dromoka judgement split is fine. In a large 6-7 rnd tournament take the lilis. The question you need to ask is whether elspeth is better then nightmare. Elspeth is better in a vacuum nightmare wins games you could otherwise be locked out of the combat phase.
Went for the Liliana's. Nightmare vs Elspeth. Since i am running the two towers i will stick to Elspeth. Lets find out what she will bring us today.
Even if i'd wanted to change to Recurry, i couldnt. Already in the train on my way to the GP.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobmans
Went for the Liliana's. Nightmare vs Elspeth. Since i am running the two towers i will stick to Elspeth. Lets find out what she will bring us today.
Even if i'd wanted to change to Recurry, i couldnt. Already in the train on my way to the GP.
I can always emergency Fedex you a Korean Recurring Nightmare. LMK. Bros don't let bros play without Korean Recurring Nightmare.
-Matt
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
I can always emergency Fedex you a Korean Recurring Nightmare. LMK. Bros don't let bros play without Korean Recurring Nightmare.
-Matt
Well maybe you could Fedex yourself over here and kick my ass. Just played the most horrible games against Esper Blade in round 1. G1 had to mull and kept plains, swamp, stronghold, rhino, deed, therapy. Never drew another land. Should i have mulled to 5?
G2 i kept bayou, explorer, top, therapy, 2 gsz, rhino. Then i played bayou into veteran explorer and realized my error... on his turn the obvious happened. And basicly he was able to outgrind my sorry ass with eas.
Although losing to this guy i had a good laugh with him and flavour points to the deck...
Edit: currently 1-3 in rounds.
R2 Deathblade against a good players. Lost 0-2. Matchups where real grindy. Both games where basicly won by DTT.
R3 Infect, 2-1. Grindy games 1 and 2. G2 Pithing Needle on Nexus then draw go into top and full control. G3 i had triple Therapy into goodstuff while he kept a 1 land after mulligan.
R4 Dredge. G1 on the draw. my turn i land Bayou into DRS. T2 i land PDeeds for his 9 zombies, but 13/13 troll plus 2 Ichorids killed me.
G2 i had double Therapy and Extirpate on his troll. Also landed a Containment Priest. I drew only lands and he had a firestorm pretty quick.
That all there was to it... bummer i am kinda agitated that for the last 4 days things have gone sideways real bad. Not sure how i want to continue and what to prepare for Lille.
Last edit: came to late for R5 and got a gameloss, conceded and dropped.
As far as Junk concerned, it is fun but i prefer playing Jund colors instead. While preparing for Lille, Jund NicFit is the deck to focus on for me. But something is telling me to play some kind of BUG list that exploits Pernicous Deed and some card advantage engine outside of Brainstorm.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tom4ik
If you can't beat em, join em. But at least do it in style. While piloting this deck, in what meta is this basicly a bad idea?
Gonna use this list as a baseline and tweak it.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
What about Titan-post matchup? I've lost in Top4 today because I didn't expected this deck at all. I couldn't do anything at all, but I've managed to win one game, so for the first time, it isn't bad at all. Main problems, for me, were Crop Rotation, Eye of Ugin, and hardcasted Eldrazi monsters.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Andriod what is your color scheme jund has acess to blood moon to fight the 12 post matchup. Any other colors just pray you dont get paired its not worth the slots to fix the lopsided 70-30 matchup. You have a better chance against tes then the turbo eldrazi.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Paranoid__Android
What about Titan-post matchup? I've lost in Top4 today because I didn't expected this deck at all. I couldn't do anything at all, but I've managed to win one game, so for the first time, it isn't bad at all. Main problems, for me, were Crop Rotation, Eye of Ugin, and hardcasted Eldrazi monsters.
My friend who got me into legacy just recently plays 12 post, so I have more experience against it than any other deck at the moment. I'm on the junk list and I've only won 1 game against him (not match, game) and it was only because I Ghost Quartered (Wasteland for you non-budget conscience players) a Cloud Post on turn 1 and then paid 2 life to Surgically extract them all from his deck. He says decks with multiple Wastelands are his biggest threats. So yeah, you have to screw up their mana quick to have a chance. I'm probably going to proxy some Containment Priests to test against him, but he also tends to find Karakas and have it available before he casts Emrakul, so he just bounces it to his hand if I try a Diabolic Edict or something.
If you're on red, Sowing Salt might be worth looking into.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tilzinger
My friend who got me into legacy just recently plays 12 post, so I have more experience against it than any other deck at the moment. I'm on the junk list and I've only won 1 game against him (not match, game) and it was only because I Ghost Quartered (Wasteland for you non-budget conscience players) a Cloud Post on turn 1 and then paid 2 life to Surgically extract them all from his deck. He says decks with multiple Wastelands are his biggest threats. So yeah, you have to screw up their mana quick to have a chance. I'm probably going to proxy some Containment Priests to test against him, but he also tends to find Karakas and have it available before he casts Emrakul, so he just bounces it to his hand if I try a Diabolic Edict or something.
If you're on red, Sowing Salt might be worth looking into.
Since multiple Wastelands can't be really an option, I've thought about some hate against it. Ensnaring Bridge, ARMAGEDDON (I know, I know, haha!) and hardcore discard on first three turns (Hymns and LilianaotV).
I've sided in CPriests for Marit Lage and Titans who were always GSZed, but they weren't any good. It was a weird build for sure.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
@Bobmans - Lands and 12-post are miserable for this deck so if you see that a ton you will either need some SB tech or change the game plan. Miracles can be an issue, game 1 especially. Game 2/3 I board out vets and some number of therapies and bring in the counters, notion thief, etc.
I actually am thinking to run a top or 2 in the board to bring in against combo and control games. I am also not sure about thragtusk right now. I think I do want 1 somewhere in the main because its lifegain and with jace can put the game out of reach. I am also considering moving the tasigurs to the board and moving more into a dig plan. That care is just absurd and feel like not playing it is like not playing treasure cruise (hard to justify from a power perspective).
I moved a pulse to the main. With so many miracles decks running around as well Omni (they can bring in both dgrid and/or levline which is important to get off the table) I wanted another answer to jace.
I think if your used to either Pfire or Junk then a version similar to what I had is going to feel underpowered, we dont get to jam 3 rhinos in a row or set up punishing fire but the deck is very consistent and early jaces and lilys are usually enough. Do you think a build with more 5/6 drops would end up better? I do sometimes feel like having a grave titan or something like that would be helpful.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Paranoid__Android
I've sided in CPriests for Marit Lage and Titans who were always GSZed, but they weren't any good. It was a weird build for sure.
CPriest doesn't stop Marit Lage, unfortunately. It's a token.
If you're playing red then Ruination is a great card to fight 12-post, as well as the obvious things like lands...and it can straight up punish greedy 3-4 colour decks too.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dissection
CPriest doesn't stop Marit Lage, unfortunately. It's a token.
If you're playing red then Ruination is a great card to fight 12-post, as well as the obvious things like lands...and it can straight up punish greedy 3-4 colour decks too.
I'm wondering whether blood moon effect is better or weaker than a strict armag' effect.
These kind of decks won't likely anticipate such cards coming from the board.
To be honest, I would only consider Ruination in a Burning wish shell.
Otherwise, I'll stick with a more standard approach -> Blood moon.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ralf
I'm wondering whether blood moon effect is better or weaker than a strict armag' effect.
These kind of decks won't likely anticipate such cards coming from the board.
To be honest, I would only consider Ruination in a Burning wish shell.
Otherwise, I'll stick with a more standard approach -> Blood moon.
That's very good answer but I'm playing an Abzan Nic Fit shell, so, no red for now. :D
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Paranoid__Android
What about Titan-post matchup? I've lost in Top4 today because I didn't expected this deck at all. I couldn't do anything at all, but I've managed to win one game, so for the first time, it isn't bad at all. Main problems, for me, were Crop Rotation, Eye of Ugin, and hardcasted Eldrazi monsters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tom4ik
@Bobmans - Lands and 12-post are miserable for this deck so if you see that a ton you will either need some SB tech or change the game plan. Miracles can be an issue, game 1 especially.
I play Junk, and I've enjoyed Null Rods (having to shrug at my two Tops) out of the board for the difficult MUD, Storm, and Miracles match-ups in moderate testing. I haven't gotten a chance to play it against 12-Post yet, but that match-up is part of the reason I put it in, and I imagine it helps against their Expedition Map, Sensei's Divining Top, and Candelabra of Tawnos. I mostly expect to get steamrolled by Crop Rotation, Primeval Titan, Show and Tell, and company anyway, but someone might want to test it.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scott
I play Junk, and I've enjoyed
Null Rods (having to shrug at my two Tops) out of the board for the difficult MUD, Storm, and Miracles match-ups in moderate testing. I haven't gotten a chance to play it against 12-Post yet, but that match-up is part of the reason I put it in, and I imagine it helps against their
Expedition Map,
Sensei's Divining Top, and
Candelabra of Tawnos. I mostly expect to get steamrolled by
Crop Rotation,
Primeval Titan,
Show and Tell, and company anyway, but someone might want to test it.
I've found that Deeds is a good answer to those cards. I've taken out a Candelabra, Exploration, Top, and 2 Maps in one go. Those cards are the only reason I don't side out the Deeds in that matchup.
The other sucky thing about that matchup is it runs a lot of basics too, upwards of 8-10 I think. So Veteran is helping them just as much, if not more, than its helping you. The deck has a ton of redundancy. A Therapy on turn 1 could hit Map, Exploration, Ancient Stirrings or Crop Rotation. I usually name Crop Rotation if I'm blind b/c its the one that lets them accelerate the most.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tom4ik
@Bobmans - Lands and 12-post are miserable for this deck so if you see that a ton you will either need some SB tech or change the game plan. Miracles can be an issue, game 1 especially. Game 2/3 I board out vets and some number of therapies and bring in the counters, notion thief, etc.
I actually am thinking to run a top or 2 in the board to bring in against combo and control games. I am also not sure about thragtusk right now. I think I do want 1 somewhere in the main because its lifegain and with jace can put the game out of reach. I am also considering moving the tasigurs to the board and moving more into a dig plan. That care is just absurd and feel like not playing it is like not playing treasure cruise (hard to justify from a power perspective).
I moved a pulse to the main. With so many miracles decks running around as well Omni (they can bring in both dgrid and/or levline which is important to get off the table) I wanted another answer to jace.
I think if your used to either Pfire or Junk then a version similar to what I had is going to feel underpowered, we dont get to jam 3 rhinos in a row or set up punishing fire but the deck is very consistent and early jaces and lilys are usually enough. Do you think a build with more 5/6 drops would end up better? I do sometimes feel like having a grave titan or something like that would be helpful.
One would offcourse have to accept to be weaker to some decks then others. Even this is true for every current DtB, but still those are DtB. I suppose we can run hate against the weaker match-ups, but first fill the room we have to improve the meta.
Attacking 12post and MUD often means to be attacking their manabase before they can deploy. Decks like Jund or BUG Delver are particularly good at doing that, but our main problem is we are not running Wasteland, just like Paranoid_Andriod said. Ruination would be a solid choice for Scape, since Blood Moon disables Valakut. Even then i think a LftL wouldn't be out of place to run either main/board. As for Jund NicFit. I think Blood Moon could work, but it face the danger of 1. being countered or destroyed very easy, 2. Blood Moon still provides them with mana. MUD can just continue deploying Metalworker and/or Monolith. The question then becomes, who draws better. And 3. Blood Moon also disables your own utility lands. I must admit that against the matchups it is brought in the utlity lands don't do relevant stuff anyway (except PFire vs Metalworker). Deploying Moon T2/3 is a must, but can seriously harm our own deployment. It might just be a necessary evil for Jund lists.
Sowing Salt is an interesting idea, except it is probably too slow vs Depths. Opponent can respond and cast Crop Rotation to create Marit Lage or just counter it. JunK still has the best utility to fight Depths, Karakas and Path to Exile are excelent cards. JunD just doesn't have it.
Null Rod also looks intersting, but running that card effective means running at least to or more and i do not like to see sideboard space been sucked up by that card. Just like mentioned it doesn't combine with our own SDT. SDT is the card that i often find to be involved in winning games.
As for the BUG list. Running creatures in different ranges is probably a good idea, bearing that they bring synergy to the list. Since the BUG list does not run GSZ it does not have to be green and obvious choices would be Snapcaster Mage, Baleful Strix, Vendilion Clique and probably something out of the box at a higher CMC (Aetherling?. Will be looking into it. I do, however, think that running a number around 12-16 creatures would be nice to reach just the amount of pressure to close out games in not to many time. Thragtusk and Jace combine real nice with it's ETB, LTB triggers.
Also i have been thinking about Tasigur and i also want to add 2 copies of DTT to the list. Personally i do not see reason to NOT run them along. In fact i think they can work really well together. Tasigur delve and DTT delve cleanup the yard, while Tasigur (and doing regular business) fills it up again. Also with all the land deployment this deck has it would be really easy to control the amount of cards to delve for DTT. The question is, does it tempo enough to continually balance each other out. Also i think that 1 or 2 Sensei's Divining Tops work really well here. Being able to Select what cards go to the yard with Tasigur's ability can be pretty powerful. Even better if DTT just emptied it and you'd want a PDeeds. Happen to put a Deed and a Land on top with SDT and activate Tasigur seems really nice.
Maelstrom Pulse is an auto include. It reaches what Abrupt Decay can't reach AND Pernicious Deed cannot destroy Walkers or you just don't have the mana to destroy something you'd want with Deeds.
Brainstorm session so far.
vandalblast might be an option against MUD aswell. Also Vraska the Unseen and Maelstrom Pulse can destroy take out Ugin.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
12post, MUD, and Nic Fit are all members of the same family.
The issue is that they go bigger than we do, quicker. 12post goes the biggest, by far; MUD goes the quickest, by far. Nic Fit is, imo, the most stable & flexible of the three, as it exists in the middle of the other two on the scale, but it's definitely very weak to its siblings.
If you're confronted with 12post on a regular basis, don't be afraid to look for unusual answers. There's a lot of fringe playable / EDH playable options that Nic Fit has access to that many decks don't. For example, you might consider green Kamahl to make your opponent's lands into dudes and then Deed them away. Something that attacks the Eldrazi Bribery-style might also be an option to look into -- Praetor's Grasp does this, but only hits one of the 3 and doesn't put it into play like Bribery does. I'm not sure off the top of my head if there's a better black option than PG.
I believe there is also a questionably playable black Blood Moon. Contamination, maybe? I don't remember. Rain of Filth is an option, as well.
There's a lot of possibilities, you just have to go looking for them. We're MUCH more flexible than 12post is -- you can tune your list to beat basically anything. Just realize that if you tune to beat 12post, you might give ground elsewhere in your local meta.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
12post, MUD, and Nic Fit are all members of the same family.
The issue is that they go bigger than we do, quicker. 12post goes the biggest, by far; MUD goes the quickest, by far. Nic Fit is, imo, the most stable & flexible of the three, as it exists in the middle of the other two on the scale, but it's definitely very weak to its siblings.
If you're confronted with 12post on a regular basis, don't be afraid to look for unusual answers. There's a lot of fringe playable / EDH playable options that Nic Fit has access to that many decks don't. For example, you might consider green Kamahl to make your opponent's lands into dudes and then Deed them away. Something that attacks the Eldrazi Bribery-style might also be an option to look into -- Praetor's Grasp does this, but only hits one of the 3 and doesn't put it into play like Bribery does. I'm not sure off the top of my head if there's a better black option than PG.
I believe there is also a questionably playable black Blood Moon. Contamination, maybe? I don't remember. Rain of Filth is an option, as well.
There's a lot of possibilities, you just have to go looking for them. We're MUCH more flexible than 12post is -- you can tune your list to beat basically anything. Just realize that if you tune to beat 12post, you might give ground elsewhere in your local meta.
Or just play night of souls' betrayal with kamahl.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jbone2016
Or just play night of souls' betrayal with kamahl.
By the time you ramp into that you're dead. Whatever moves you make to take care of their mana needs to be done before turn 3 or 4. By then its too late.
