Hope the streak continues, Sunday is gametime, 3v3 format though, Will be using the same list I went 1st last week.
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=24400
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Hope the streak continues, Sunday is gametime, 3v3 format though, Will be using the same list I went 1st last week.
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=24400
The Might of Old Krosa was good. If I want a sixs pure pump spell then I am really torn between the first Might and the second Become. The first 4 Invigorates are the best pump spells by far, and the first Become is a close fifth. Number six is close. In general, if you just want velocity against combo or bad matchups, Might is excellent on turn two. If games are going long, Become Immense generates size and numbers that can't be beat elsewhere. It also factors into a lot of regular damage kills, because it plus Berserk gets you close to 10 all by themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
I can see the argument for Groundswell, but I think that Might is better on the balance. I would be very interested in hearing some testing results from Groundswell, but my instincts have it as an inferior option at the moment. The manabase is fetch heavy, but it also only has 18 or 19 lands in total. Having the timing restriction on Might is awkward in creature matchups, but while you give up a small amount of versatility Might is always good for 4, while Groundswell can be an awful topdeck (though to be fair if we are looking for good top decks then the answer is Become Immense). A deck like burn can really prioritize using its fetchlands for Searing Blaze, but I think there is a lot of more value in using fetches for Ponder and Brainstorm than potentially turning on a card that will end up being a 1 or 2 of at most.
Also, if you are considering an extra pump spell, I think going higher on Vines or Blossoming Defense is another good option (I have played 4 or 5 total between the 2 before).
I like Jace quite a bit in certain matchups, but he is by no means a must have in the sideboard. You need some Shatters and Disenchants, you need some removal, you need some graveyard hate, but how much you need extra grind is very much up in the air. I would never, ever play this deck without 1 Sylvan Library in the 75, but Jace comes in and out.
I would never want him in the board against combo heavy metas, and even against aggressive fair decks he can be too slow. However, if you are running into midrange~control decks he does a lot of good things. Against decks with Hymn to Tourach, Kolaghan's Command, Toxic Deluge, Plainswalkers, or other means of going long and generating advantage, he represents a lot of values. He is VERY easy to flip in this deck if you want to, and this deck is packed with high impact spells to flash back. For reference, against something like UR Delver, especially on the draw, he probably eats a Chain Lightning and does nothing while you get run over, but against BUG or 4C he is probably worth it. In these matchups he eats an Abrupt Decay before you untap more often than not, but better him than Blighted Agent.
Realistically, in these matchups I just always want to draw Sylvan Library. It functions in a lot of the same ways but is also represents the means to just brute force your way to victory in plenty of matchups. The problem is that it is useless in multiples, and you can't pitch extras to Force of Will. Jace gets around this and adds an angle of attack that a lot of decks aren't ready for. Probably my biggest complaint is that he dies to red Blasts, but, again, better him than Blighted Agent.
So this is another interesting point of discussion. I listened to Zachary Koch's Hipster's of the Coast interview, and one thing that caught my attention was when he said that he was happy with his exact 75 for GP Vegas except for the Sylvan Library. I was a little skeptical at first, but after a few tournaments without the card I've found that I really haven't missed it at all. There's just too many fair piles in the meta to justify the life loss, and the card only shines in match-ups we're already favored in (turn 3-4 combo, hard control.)Quote:
Originally Posted by geneyquakes
Edit: Link to Hipsters of the Coast interview. Relevant excerpt at 42:30
That is pretty interesting. I am realizing now that in one post I said 'there aren't any sacred cows other than the creatures, Brainstorm, and Invigorate' and then in my next post I actually said 'never, ever' in a sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
I listened to that interview, and I do think there is something to it. When the meta was 15 percent Miracles, I think it would have been insanity to not maindeck the card. It was close to a two mana sorcery that said "win the game" in that matchup. It is less important now, and I think the right place is in the board, but I do think its power level still warrants a spot. It is one of the most rawly powerful green cards in Legacy.
The fact that I am playing Jace is a clear indication that I like these effects, and think the 'two mana selection and card advantage' effects are worth having about 1.5 slots in the board. I don't think that they are as much of a necessity as more specific targeted hate cards, but there are matches where you want to cut Force, you want to trim Daze on the draw, you don't need specific hate, and you are always one sweeper or bad 2-for-1 away from getting completely blown out of the game. Sylvan brute forces you through these tough spots.
The interesting thing for me for me listening to the commentary about what to replace it with is that he didn't really have something in mind. This isn't meant as a criticism, but its telling that we are all just so used to trying to fight the grindy games with Library. It actually would have been surprising if he had a definite "the Library should have been X" because it has been right for so long.
If the scary cards are Toxic Deluge, Kolaghan's Command, etc., maybe we should just be packing extra blue blasts and Flusterstorms, or even just packing extra copies of Vines and Spell Pierce in the board. Maybe we should be going crazy and playing Divert. This deck does love cheap instants, and I will admit that 2 mana enchantments aren't ideal. It is also possible that we should ignore the card advantage part of Library and just play a ton of Ponders. We just need 2 or 3 specific cards to win even in tough spots, not a critical mass.
I have no idea what the right answer is, but you have got me thinking. Not sure whether thats good or bad, but thanks for the food for thought!
Hi everyone, so I just bought into the deck as it looked like a ton of fun to play as well being a strong deck. Unfortunately, with my budget I've had to drop down to 2 Tropical Islands and 2 Noble Hierarch, and don't have the Flusterstorms or other hot sideboard techs. Hopefully that won't be too much of a back-breaking deprivation. Here is the list I'm thinking of using:
Lands (19)
2 Tropical Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Wasteland
2 Island
4 Inkmoth Nexus
Creatures (11)
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Viridian Corrupter
Spells (30)
4 Invigorate
2 Vines of Vastwood
1 Blossoming Defense
2 Beserk
2 Become Immense
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Spell Pierce
3 Daze
1 Crop Rotation
SB
TBA - some Pithing Needles, Submerges, Hydroblasts, Faerie Macabres, and Naturalizes.
Would love to hear any advice y'all might have, and maybe also what I should look to buy next; is the 3rd Trop more important than the 3-4 Hierarch? Are there certain sideboard must-haves? I also have to buy a Pendelhaven at some point...
Thank you!
I played 3 trop + 1 island for a while and I would strongly recommend against 2 island. I'd replace with breeding pool if you can (unless you see a lot of Blood Moon, it's almost always better than island). You'll lose more games b/c you don't have enough G for multiple pump spells or b/c you don't have a forest for Invigorate than from draining yourself for 2-4 life. If you're priced into running 3 basics, 2 forest+1 island is a better configuration. I'd also get Pendlehaven ASAP -- it's incredibly strong in the deck. Without it, Crop Rotation might not be worth a slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi
Finance-wise, I'd buy the 3rd Trop first, as dual lands will just keep going up in price and Hierarch will likely get a reprint within 2 years. Deck-optimization-wise, Hierarchs probably do more for the deck (if you have breeding pools -- if not, the 3rd trop is probably more important). You can play the deck for the rest of your life without needing the 4th Trop or Flusterstorms (tho they are nice if you have them).
Everytime a new set is spoiled i immediately go look for blue and green cards that could be used in infect B)
This just surfaced:
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoi...ers-sanctuary/
Could it be interesting?
It would act as a mini-leovold and is easy to cast. Another way to gain CA than with sylvan, tho i would not say it replaces sylvan.
Almost only decay can take it out. Good way to keep up with grixis decks (which often has no answer for it).
It does warrent the deck being a little slower in my eyes, but it would mostly be a SB card, as it can be quite dead against combo.
Note: it also combos with spellkite.
What do you think?
The question we have to have in mind is "Do we want our creatures to be protected or do we want to draw (including something that could replace/protect them) ?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Neffy
I think the answer is rather the first part of the question.
The combo with spellskite is nice but is it the purpose of our deck ?
I think it depends hugely on the deck you're up against. Some games, we're the beatdown, in which case, I don't want this. Other games, it's about sculpting a hand and understanding when to make your move and this probably isn't that great either. But, often, games turn into our opponents being able to run us out of resources, largely going 1-for-1, in which case, I could see this being pretty good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adibou1er
In games where we are to trade ressources, it would be good, I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by qomori
But : I'd rather wait a big turn, sculpting a hand with countermagic, rather than playing that.
Obviously it's only theoretical since I have not tested the card yet :)
Boiz this card is a real ancestral recall for 1 Green mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neffy
Tested up at my lgs against tempo decks....i have to say they got rekt very badly couse of that.
I think,in the actual meta where Bg shells are less and Red and Black is rising, this card is a must in at least 2 copies in the Board.
For sure Shapers' Santuary is an interesting cards and all of us think to her insertion into Infect.
Just my doubt....our creatures are good...well...but want we draw when they dies (or maybe not, depending by our new draw) or want we defend our creature from opponent's removal?
Today I don't know if the right way to improve our deck is to giving us new draws or maybe something to equalize the power of cards like Kolaghan Command or similar (2x1 on our Nexus and other creature is devastating).
What can us remove for add 2 Shapers?
Our deck is composed of 4 main parts: lands, creatures, countermagic and pump spells; my answer to the question (based on my tests) is that we want this card couse 50% of times when we draw to the trigger we are going to find a pump(that neutralize bolts for example) or a countermagic (to fight along removals)...or we can draw into another threat or in the worst case lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
Even if we are going to draw a couple of lands our brainstorms becomes better and the odds of finding what we need in the long run are higher.
Bonus: i have noticed that the enchantment is a real deal for opponents couse it is green ( don't die to pyro or reb) and the best thing is that their wastelands on our inkmoth becomes +1 for us.
This is the best/worst part of the card maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Problem4tic
With the 2x inclusion of Gitaxian Probe and the 2x of Ponder, We finally reach the 20 cards blue count optimal for Force of Will. Testing this configuration i'm very happy and I have no problem with Force of Will.
What we want to remove from our maindeck?
Wall of text incoming
Time for 5 round tournament report
13 people challenging themselves to the prize and 4 precious fatal push promo!
We sit back After pairings and the shop guy said " Tonight we do a lottery for two pushes, they Will be randomly assigned to 2 players, but they cant win another in finals, in case one of two reaches top2"
Round 1 against Storm
Marco is a very good friend of mine , and he's playing a deck that brought him in top 8 of a lot of big events, so he knows how to pilot It.
G1 I go off very quickly, since i had a t1 glistener into t2 invigorate berserker combo. For past experience i know he's running a couple fatal push in the 75 ( Guess side) but i had also Force backup.
I dont remember my siding, the only thing that i'm sure is that i forgot to bring in krosan grip ,which Can be very good if timed well.
G2 i keep a decent hand with cantrip,hierarch, lots of counters and two fetches. Having some manipulation made me think i could find infectors, but that wasnt the case. Luckily,he was missing an enbler too,so we spent like 5-6 turn doing nothing (he was cantripping, i was attacking with hierarch with double exalted, Even with 2 Brainstorm couldnt find another beater). There was a critical turn when i casted blighted agent, he was at 6 and i had a triple hierarch on the field and triple invigorate and flusterstorm in hand , he knew beccause of probe. This was the funny part, after the first invigorate he started casting ritual in response to having enough mana to pay the flusterstorm, i pierced the ritual, he casted another , i respond with the second invigorate, he flusterstorm my two invigorates, with two mana opened plus 2 leds. At that point i was only aiming to make him crack a led, but he had enough mana to pay my flusterstorm, so i needed another storm count. So i casted my second invigorate , than flusterstorm myself . Plot twist, he casted a second flusterstorm! Storm count went to 11, so the hierarch tempo was Lost . Luckily casting blighted agent was enough since he didnt find any enbler.
1-0
Round 2 Against UB Reanimator
G1 He started delta pass, i cast hierarch, he eot for exhume , reanimate griselbrand in bus turn. Should have kept open for spell Pierce , but he told me he had Force backup.
G2 I sided a lot of stuff (second crop rotation,karaks, surgical, double needle,bog ) but find only a bojuka on topdeck and a pithing needle. I was a bit unlucky here since he was running a Green splash (didnt show It g1) so After resolving a griselbrand, he Draw 7 beccause of reanimate than go discard. I cast pithing needle and he let It resolve , he had elesh in the graveyard, i thought, he didnt need grisel. So , i casted bog trying to turn It into a tempo run against a 7/7 flyer.
Unfortunately he drew decay with the First run, so rip needle.
1-1
G3 against Rw painter
I don't know the deck well, but i know how It wins, and i was sure he was running blood moons.
G1 i go glistener elf, daze his moon, go for t2 kill. Sweet
G2 i sided a lot of artifact hate (krosan grip, Seal) plus some anti Red stuff ( hydro, blue elemental blast ) and a chill, that i Guess was unecessary agaisnt an ancient tomb deck. I played the control game for a while , managing only to inflict 2 infect before he sudden shock got elves out. He managed to resolve Bloodmoon After fetching a Mountain and a plain; two turns later i could go for the kill since he didnt block with painter, but was afraid of reb/swtp in his hand. Turns out It was enlighted tutor.FML
G3) I don't remember the game well, but i 'm sure the topdeck hydroblast did the job, won off a blockin recruiter with a Blood moon in field. After block declare, tapped hierarch to blast the moon (enabling invigorate) , than go for standard berserk combo. GGs
2-1
Round 4 against Omnitell
G1 I probably kept a bad hand, too many creatures and no combo potential. Having triple counters thought me i could tempo him out, but turns out that 2 ponder and a preordain helped him a lot, since he got boseju on the field than show for emrakul. Was a bit unlucky here beccause i had only to put inkmoth on the field instead of blighted agent (which was on top of the deck). If they were swapped he was forced to block since the turn after his show i would have attacked for 4 infect, ( he was at 6 ) than survive the annhilator trigger with Elf and go for the win, but sadly having put into play inkmoth, in order to survive emrakul attack i had to cast agent, denying myself those 4 attacking dmg.Left with 1 trop and elf, didnt topdeck an invigorate, my only out.jeez
Sided in 2 surgical extraction, crop rotation , karakas, second wasteland
This game was interesting, i tempoed him a bit with exalted Elf but he manage to put omniscence in play, but had no cantrip nor wish beccause he passed. I could go for lethal ( with become immense and two vines ) but i knew he had some interaction. I surgical his Brainstorm, so he showed me his deck and got those out. I asked "Hand?" "Dude they are four" "Yes but i need to see your hand" , he read the card again, " oh right" . Mana leak plus Force with Omni on the field. I attack with elf, cast become immense, get forced, cast kicked vines, get leaked, get 2 infect and pass (he was at 6). He drew polluted delta and we are up to g3.
G3) Time was out , so we had only 5 turns. Second turn he drop ancient tomb, but cantrip instead of show. He probably was lookin for Force of will, but droppin a tomb wasnt the best idea. My second was the fourth turn,but i knew he reached his critical mass, so i casted crop rotation , fetching for wasteland his tomb. A Little bit dirty , but still a draw
2-1-1
Top8 against Shardless Bug
G1) I manage to combo out after he declares no blocks with deathrite shaman, with daze backup. Quick and clean
Sided in submerge
G2) He ripped my hand off with multiple discard than forced me to sac Elf with Liliana of the veil. I got an inkmoth on the field and pass, he cast strix but doenst uptick Liliana (he said he needed his card in hand) . I submerge his strix, and get Liliana out with an inkmoth and get another One in the field. For the rest of the game i tempoed him out with double inkmoth (draw another and lost to strix) , he casted shardless but Cascade into decay. He probably missplayed to use pushes on the Elf and the blighted agent i casted later since inkmoths are decay-proof.
Top 4 was a split, beccause It was like 1,30 am and shop guy was tired, but turns out that my opponent in top 4 was the Rw Painter Guy who had randomly get his push , so i got mine for free :D
Sorry for the Long Report :p
In our maindeck nothing, no space in my opinion....u can replace teferi's response and/or some protection spell in the board because this is not a winning card in every matchup but a very focuses mu card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
Keep in mind that this only works if they wait until it is already a creature, which can be risky in any case because of Vines. They do lose the flexibility of holding up Wasteland until after we go for a pump. But assuming your opponent knows the timing, this is just a timing restriction rather than 'always plus one'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Problem4tic
I think the answer to this is very clearly 'nothing'. You could trim cantrips or countermagic, but I don't like this. The natural place would be somewhere in the Vines/Blossoming Defense area, but those serve double duty as both protection and pump and are a vital part of the deck's game plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
The biggest strike against this as a maindeck card is that there is a solid percentage of the metagame where this card will do literal nothing.
It strikes me as a Teferi's Response type sideboard card. It is great in its good matchups, but you need to be sure it is what you want to be doing in the matchup, and it is narrow enough that you need to be sure that it earns a slot.
Another thing that is easy to forget for a lot of people is that this itself costs you mana and a card. You need to be targeted twice before you start creating advantage. It will obviously create lots of value, but if this brings us to the 'Kolaghan's Command returning Snapcaster Mage' stage of the game against Grixis, I think our plan all along should have been to overload on Vines and kill them before they set up.
I liked the idea of Sanctuary until I realized that its first trigger merely gets us back the card we spent on the Sanctuary itself. I realize that this is obvious, but getting value from the second creature that dies and onwards just feels too slow for me. I approach this as a tempo deck, so I want to keep my creatures from dying, not gain value from them when they die. I don't want to grind. I'd rather play a Flusterstorm or a Blossoming Defense or a Vines it its spot.
In other words, this.Quote:
Originally Posted by geneyquakes
3rd place with Bant Infect (6-1-1). Lost to my petdeck RUGDelver in the semis after going unbeaten in 5 rounds. I was suppose to pilot RUGMandrils, last minute I went on to my old reliable... meta is grixis infested... with czech piles/bugdelvers.
decklist: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=17132&d=305941&f=LE
Matchups: (4-0-1)
2-0 vs RGLands; (drawn my 2 early needles which is key vs ith and wastelands.
2-0 vs Jund; Goyfs wont do anything with blighteds. Dispel was a worthy inclusion in my sb last minute vs diabolic edict.
2-1 vs Elves; Ruric prevented me from chaining spells for the win game 2... both games 1 and 3 is somehow smooth sailing for either my blighted or an inky.
2-0 Dredge; early glisteners backed up with counters and pumps sealed my top8 appearrance once again.
ID with SnT to grab some dinner.
1st seed after 5 rounds
Quarterfinals: 2-1 vs BGDepths. A misplay from my opponent from not removing anything in my yard via his DRS and a surgical (upon probing) launched a timely Bimmense via inky ftw.
Semis: RUGDelver... tough tough matchup, I still was able to dodge game2.. baited stp for his lone delver... counter wars then I was able to jam pump chains when he ran out of gas. Game3 was crucial...several turns he kept on drawing lands and doing nothing... but I wasnt able to gain an advantage with me having no lands at all... needle was 1 turn short.. I went packing.
Overall, the main deck of having 2 main flusters are key... dropped the lone pierce... and reinforcing my sb to hydroblast/dispel as hard counters vs a DRS infested meta was key. Somehow luck was on my side as I was able to dodge the tempos up until the semis vs rug. Deck is still a monster.
Wow, Infect has straight up vanished from MTGO. Are people overreacting to the Fatal Push print and Miracles ban? I still think Infect seems good, but it being <1% of the metagame sure makes me question my own judgment.