[DTB] Vial Goblins

this might not be that helpful but you guys should all try working with earwig squad if you haven't. i use them maindeck and it's great because it works against any deck. against thresh or other control decks, simply take out three of their threats. most of the decks that are bad for goblins - hard control and combo - will fall apart once you take out a few key cards. one of the funnier plays that i did once was to remove basic land after playing having used multiple wastelands early. it might seem odd but the opponent had serious mana problems to begin with and no other real threats. anyway, i would really suggest at least trying the card.

I saw something at a tournament like two weeks ago, and it seemed pretty techy.



http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/Card...aspx?&id=48390


I think it could in theory be decent against thresholdesuqe decks, where their only way to target creatures with anything is to swords them...


This deck also has an overwhelming amount of ways to target crits, so it could be interesting....


I had never even heard of the card before then, so I do not have an opinion on it either way...

EDIT: Sorry about that...

Fractured Loyalty 1R

Enchant creature


Whenever enchanted creature is targeted by a spell or ability, the controller of the spell or ability may take control of enchanted creature.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thefreakaccident

I saw something at a tournament like two weeks ago, and it seemed pretty techy.



http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/Card...aspx?&id=48390


I think it could in theory be decent against thresholdesuqe decks, where their only way to target creatures with anything is to swords them...


This deck also has an overwhelming amount of ways to target crits, so it could be interesting....


I had never even heard of the card before then, so I do not have an opinion on it either way...

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I followed the link but it's not working. What is it?

Well fractured loyalty might be interesting if

1. It's mana cost wasn't at two: "Thresholdesque" decks all run counter-top"
and
2. You can't enchant or target Mongoose, one of the two creatures in the deck.
It requires two cards to be able to control creatures. Goblins should have other answers, such as Warren Weirding.

Also, to the PoP idea, I believe it sounds amazing but would perform less than expected. It will greatly balance the 43/42land.dec MU, but that's assuming you have two mana to use it with (yes, it sounds crazy but against a deck with 3-4 ports and 3-4 wastelands it can be hard). I think it will also be incredibly good against Aggro Loam, Enchantress/Solitaire and Astral Slide, but those are only in certain metas. Against Threshold, however, it will be very hard to get around Counterbalance, and they will counter it if they have one. Overall, I think it would be good in spots, and might merit two SB slots with testing.

I saw it in a mono-red variant, which can explain the SB slot (red doesn't have many outs to a 4/5-5/6 goyf).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thefreakaccident

I saw it in a mono-red variant, which can explain the SB slot (red doesn't have many outs to a 4/5-5/6 goyf).

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It's a good idea, but I'd play the 6/1 evoke guy before it.

the 6/1 evoker? That would be funny against Swan Thresh...

How many basics are considered to be mandatory for the list? I run 5x. Is that at all able to be dropped? I'm not a big fan of Tinkerer in the list, but still want a singleton to hit artifacts game 1. I guess going down to 1x Taiga isn't the right call. My land looks like this right now:

LAND: 22
5x Mountain
4x Mire
4x Foothills
4x Wastes
3x Badlands
2x Taiga

What would be dropped for 2x Port? I'm thinking you will say 2x Mountains or 1x Mountain 1x Badlands?

MD only has 1x Hooligan, and SB has 2x EE, 3x Therapy, 3x Grip for reference to the duals.

Thx,

--DC

Here is my list that i currently run: Rgb

Main:
4 Mountain
2 Taiga
2 Badlands
3 Rishadan Port
3 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire

4 AEther Vial
3 Warren Weirding

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 Tin Street Hooligan

Side:
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin King
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Krosan Grip

I finally made the switch from r/w to rgb, and I think that it is far superior. The weirdings are able to kill mongoose and goyf with more ease than swords used to. However, I do miss Price of Progress. When I played with the white splash I was able to fetch for far less duals and since I'm playing ports and wastelands in my current build casting PoP and getting a large advantage usually doesn't happen that often, especially since a lot of people fetch out their basics when playing against goblins to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Dino

Here is my list that i currently run: Rgb

Main:
4 Mountain
2 Taiga
2 Badlands
3 Rishadan Port
3 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire

4 AEther Vial
3 Warren Weirding

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 Tin Street Hooligan

Side:
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin King
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Krosan Grip

I finally made the switch from r/w to rgb, and I think that it is far superior. The weirdings are able to kill mongoose and goyf with more ease than swords used to. However, I do miss Price of Progress. When I played with the white splash I was able to fetch for far less duals and since I'm playing ports and wastelands in my current build casting PoP and getting a large advantage usually doesn't happen that often, especially since a lot of people fetch out their basics when playing against goblins to begin with.

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I would recommend cutting the kiki-jiki and something else for 2 additional lands. Your only running 21 lands right now with 6 of them producing colorless mana, very risky. I run 23 lands in the deck and I couldn't see myself running anything less.

The board is fine, I run Chalice of the Void because I have to deal with combo and it helps a lot more than cabal therapy in my opinion.

Since we're sharing lists, here is mine too, rgb goblins!

Main:
4x Mountain
3x Badlands
3x Taiga
4x Wasteland
2x Rishadan port (might consider cutting these but they haven't been problematic yet)
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Wooded Foothills (Running only 6 fetch to avoid thinning too much...)

4x Aether Vial
3x Warren Weirding

4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Ringleader
4x Mogg Fanatic
1x Gempalm Incinerator
1x Wort, Boggart Auntie
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Bloodmark Mentor
1x Tin Street Hooligan
2x Siege-gang Commander

Side (so far, changing heavily):
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Krosan Grip
3x Cabal Therapy
1x Earwig Squad

I REALLY like the earwig squad on side, it helps destroy slow decks like the rock by ripping out their boardcontrol turning an already uneven matchup into a crushing and they are pretty decent counter-hate against stuff like E plague/explosives/clasm, the rest seems pretty standard even though I'm still switching things around. The chalices aren't doing alot, they're useful to stop cantrips and plows (and the occasional BeB that gets boarded in as well) so it seems useful enough.

I really like the bloodmark mentor as well, giving you a big edge against other aggrodecks that you would normally trade creatures against to gain boardcontrol, and vialing it in after blockers is just gold.

I really like ya deck!

I like the Squad in the board. I really think it should be somewhere, and 1 or 2 in the board will suffice. Tutorable EE/Deed removal could be awesome paired with Discard and Grip. I know you have the option of Needle, but against stuff that runs EE/Deed, they have counters and/or Grip and Putrefy, and even Vindicate, so this is an extremely viable proactive solution in my opinion.

Also, is 2 the right number for ports, or is 3? I can't be sure, but I really have been liking them in testing. 2 seems like crap, but I guess maybe not...

Would Ghost Quarter be better than Port, or would that be worse? Metagame call? Wastelands 5 and 6 doesn't seem horrible, and neither does a possible 2-of Strip Mine...

Pce,

--DC

I've always used ports to keep someone off a certrain color long enough to crush them. I don't think ghost quarter fills the same role since for the most part they'll still get the color they need. Perhaps its a meta game call.

As long as we are sharing lists, I've been wokring on this:

2 Seige Gang Commandeer
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Goblin MATRON
4 Goblin Warchef
4 Goblin piledriver
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Stand Still
4 Brainstorn
4 Force of will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 AEther Vile
4 Wastland
6 Fetch
4 Volcanic island
4 Steem Vents

Beeing able to protect you're stuff makes life A LOT easier. The disruptions using LD in stifle and wasteland plus counters back-up in Force, daze, and even Stilfe can really be amazing.

Every wonce in a while you get bad draws like Aether vile, all blue cards and like a Goblin Matron, but usually you smash the faces with ether Goblin Lackies and/or aether viale.

I'd say that first turn vile/lackey back by Standstill is the best draw you can hope for especially backed by Forces and Dazes. Just getting those two in combonation I've never lost a game!

Ran this last week in the local tourney. Here is real quick tourney report:

Round 1

Angel Stax (2-0). Both games I get bad starts but TONS of land. All I had to do was get ether a Goblin Matron or Seige Gang Commandeer and burn him out. He never was able to draw Exaulted Angel and thus had no game at all.

Round 2

Burn! (2-1)
Real close match. I got first turn Golbin Lackey game one backed by Force of Will dropping Seige Gang Commandder = gg. Game two my deck gave up as I couldn't draw one red source after a mull to four! Game three I go turn one Aether vile followed by Standstills on turns 2 and 3. I Force twice and Dae twice then proceed to wreck himm via Goblin Warchef followed by double Piledriver. He burned me down to only 2 life. Without double Force of Will I lose easily.

Round 3

Threshold U/G/W (2-0)
Absolutely utterly dust 'em. I go turn one Goblin lackey having three Dazes opening hand followed by Goblin Ringleader and also two stifles! I Ringlead into teh nutz! I get double Ringleader, the Warchef, and a Pialdriver and go to town. He tries to use fetchlands but utterly fail when I stifle both times. His last nonbasic gets wastelanded. Even if he magically stopped my army he showed me what he drew (a Ponder) and I just drew Standstill. What do you think is better?

Semifinals

Burn! Again! (2-0)
The guy never shows up to the match. I think he assumed he was out and left!

Finals

Red Thresh (2-1)
Game one he goes nuts countering all my spells and gets an early Goyf. I mean anyone can win when they get turn two Goyf going first followed by two Daze and two Force. Geezes! He mentions between games that he made a last minute decision to not have pyroclasm. Yes! Game two I go turn one Lackey. He plows. I go turn two lackey lackey. He has two Force of Will. Turn three I got Goblin Warchef. He dazes. Turn four I go Ringleader = win. I proceed to get Warchef and two piledrivers. By now I saved the Force of will I had and draw into another. His only answer a Mongoose and a Magus of the Moon. Fail. Game three he mulls to five and keeps going turn one mongoose. I Force of Will. I then go Standstill afterward he Ponders into nothing. I draw into two more Standstills and annhilate him on pure card advantage. I just play some goblins and win as he can't find his threats.

Threat Density >>> Protection and draw. RU Goblins has been thoroughly discussed and dismissed, especially the Landstill versions. People keep trying, but they never come up with anything new, nor anything that would make it worth playing over Rgb Goblins. Goblins with Standstill in theory doesn't even feel synergistic as dropping multiple goblins a turn is what is necessary to win in any acceptable amount of time--something an active standstill hinders. I know we run 8x alternate ways of getting creatures into play, but for the most part, it won't play accordingly. It's my opinion that Standstill would be tantamount to FoW fodder 85-90 percent of the time. Also, it does next to nothing against control (Landstill, aggro loam, etc.). In fact, Landstill sides out Standstill in the mirror. If it's not good against landstill, I don't see the point. You have good matchups vs. the only things Standstill is theoretically good against, making it, in my opinion, win-more.

Draw as a whole in goblins just makes it more mana intensive. Let's think. Goblins plan = Throwing creatures @ a player. We run matrons and ringleaders to keep the threat density level at it's peak, wanting a win on turn 4, turn 5. The deckspace could be used for creatures instead, getting you exactly what you are trying to draw into in the first place with blue.

Honestly, white makes better sense than blue does.

Btw, your spelling could use a little work...Just sayin'...

Pce,

--DC

Also note how bad Ringleader is in that deck with a goblin count of merely 20.

I agree wholesale with dark cynic. I believe that rgb gobs and even the RW builds are superior.

I think that the Ru Goblin thread should be started and put in the developmental forum. Obviously, there are established DTBs in Rg and Rbg Goblins that should be discussed here, without interruption from the blue builds.

Maybe one of the moderators could fix that for us.

On topic, how do we see the future of Goblins in the new meta of Goyf Sligh, Dreadstill, Landstill, Painter, and Thresh?

Painter is Needle-able, Thresh is favorable (yeah, favorable), I haven't had much testing against landstill nor have I played against Dreadstill, but I know Dreadnought dies to Wierding nicely. I have no experience against Goyf Sligh either.

RU Gobs will never leave the developmental forums. Why do people constantly and consistantly ignore facts proven time and again by playtesting and logic? Whatever.

And yeah, although I'm pretty new to the goblin archetype, I think I'm catching on nicely. I win a lot with it. :cool:

Pce,

--DC

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Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87

Painter is Needle-able, Thresh is favorable (yeah, favorable), I haven't had much testing against landstill nor have I played against Dreadstill, but I know Dreadnought dies to Wierding nicely. I have no experience against Goyf Sligh either.

RU Gobs will never leave the developmental forums. Why do people constantly and consistantly ignore facts proven time and again by playtesting and logic? Whatever.

And yeah, although I'm pretty new to the goblin archetype, I think I'm catching on nicely. I win a lot with it. :cool:

Pce,

--DC

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Goyf Sligh is a bitch without Chalice IMO. Some people use Thorn, but I think Chalice is MUCH more effective.

Game one plays out like: you play a goblin, they burn it, repeat til death. Game two should be like: you with early Chalice and then eat their threats alive or get Chalice@1+2 and lock them out(until/unless they Grip one or Shattering Spree it)