[DTB] Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)

Im playing
2 tropical island
3 underground sea
1 bayou
1 island
1 swamp
4 polluted delta
4 misty rainforest
4 wastelands

4 tarmogoyf
3 tombstalker
2 vendilion clique

4 stifle
4 brainstorm
2 ponder
4 force of will
4 mental misstep
3 daze
4 hymn to tourach
3 go for the throat
2 diabolic edict
1 pernicious deed

sb:
3 submerge
3 pernicious deed
3 extirpate
2~3 krosan grip
3~4 field call slots (lot of zoo; any suggestion?)


My fields is basicly sneak show combo, merfolk, zoo. Theres rock and NO rug too.

anyone help is welcome.

(i thinking perish to get NO, skeak and zoo. And What we do against merfolk? just cry?)

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Originally Posted by blaat

Was thinking about how Snapcaster would do in this deck.
But in the end, Clique >>> snapcaster, for the reason of being an evasive clock and really doing something NOW. Also snapcaster needs a relevant card in the grave, which often ends up being eaten by TS. And if you really want to play brainstorm twice, add a ponder instead of snapcaster imho.

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but snapecaster can do something NOW too imo. fow, daze, mm. also 1cc like bs or stifle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reev_

but snapecaster can do something NOW too imo. fow, daze, mm. also 1cc like bs or stifle.

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You can't use alternate casting costs to pay for flashback. Snapcaster Mage reads: "The flashback cost is equal to its mana cost."

Doesn't seem like snapcaster or liliana really have a place in this deck to me. Maybe Liliana out of the board, but seems unlikely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reev_

but snapecaster can do something NOW too imo. fow, daze, mm. also 1cc like bs or stifle.

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Negative. You can't pay alternative costs for Daze or FoW, only the flashback cost which = mana cost. Misstep can still be applicable though, since it retains its phyrexian mana cost.

Completely unrelated, but here's a scan of my favorite Tombstalker -- signed by the TA creator/developer himself, Dan Signorigni. (I also have one signed by the artist, but it's so much better to land the final points of damage with 'Dan'.) :P /end dorky fanboyism

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii26/wcm8/photo.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reev_

(What we do against merfolk? just cry?)

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Pretty much, unless you want to drop green and go white for the Stoneforge package.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zilla

Pretty much, unless you want to drop green and go white for the Stoneforge package.

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Or you can load up on SB removal. I've done fine against Merfolk by playing 3 Pernicious Deed, 3 Ghastly Demise, and then an additional 1 or 2 instant speed 2cmc removals in the board (GftT, Smother, whatever really). FWIW, I've mulled to 5 on the play in a game 3 against Merfolk and won since I was able to blow him out with Deed. Could be he was just a noob, I don't know. Many merfolk players are ;]

What WCM8 said: The Merfolk matchup is quite good if you have the right sideboard and he doesnt play standstill (which few do nowadays). Just make sure to test postboard games.

Duly noted. Out of curiosity, why does no one ever run Engineered Explosives in TA? It obviously doesn't play that great with goyf, but it's a wrecking ball against Merfolk and Zoo. Deed is more comprehensive, but it's also slower in the matchups where that extra turn or two really matters.

explosives is better against zoo, but merfolk is the greater problem. Deed also wins some matchups singlehandedly whereas explosives is just a clunky ghastly demise that sometimes comes with a bonus. It has been played before in heavy zoo times, it is definately an option, but i think deed is better.

Do you guys test Llawan in TA sb? how it work if you test it?

Well, 'Folk has Dismember. How awkward. Right now, I'd run Deed for Folk, tbh.

My list thus far. I've really enjoyed playing it.

3 Underground Sea
3 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Island
8 Fetches
22

4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Tombstalker
13

3 Stifle
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Mental Misstep
3 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Smother
2 Ghastly Demise
2 Jace, the Mind Scultor
2 Sylvan Library
26

SIDEBOARD:

2 Perish
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Extirpate
2 Spell Pierce
2 Submerge
2 Pernicious Deed

-Matt

Looks good Matt, but I prefer a stronger tempo game. And I like 4-ofs :) I'll have to try the Bob list soon, though.

My current list:

4x Tarmogoyf
3x Tombstalker
2x Vendilion Clique

4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
4x Mental Misstep
4x Stifle
4x Daze

4x Hymn to Tourach
2x Dismember
2x Go for the Throat

2x Sylvan Library

4x Wasteland
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Polluted Delta
1x Misty Rainforest
4x Underground Sea
2x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
1x Swamp

Sideboard:

3x Spell Pierce
2x Submerge
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Pernicious Deed
2x Perish
4x Leyline of the Void

As long as we're posting lists, here's my current build:

20 Lands (9 fetch, 7 duals, 4 wastes)
4 Goyf
4 Stalker
4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
4 MMisstep
4 Hymn
4 Stifle
4 Ponder
3 Daze
2 Dismember
2 Maelstrom Pulse / occasionally Snuff Out
1 Sylvan Library

SB:
2 Jace TMS
2 Thoughtseize
2 Perish
3 Ghastly Demise
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Darkblast
2 Seal of Primordium

SB is sometimes up in the air, cards like LftL, Spell Pierce, Sower of Temptation, and so on are in consideration depending on the expected metagame.

like@ WCM8's list except for the pulses/snuff out where i would play GFT/smother/edicts just to lower the curve/ avoid the pain of both snuff and dismember

I have been noticing that lately Ponder has been replaced with more business cards like library, jace, more removal or even spell pierce. I think this is a good change in my experience and one that is overdue in TA compared to NO RUG, BUG landstill and stoneblade who all eschew ponder for more business spells. Initially I felt ponder was essential but I've found the opposite is actually true.
Anyway I guess the point is maybe its time to re evaluate some other longstanding choices in light of the current DTB and see what we may find. For example and dont hang me for saying this but hymn isn't what it used to be right now. I absolutely love hymn and always will but many decks can now shrug off what used to be a crippling blow due to massive CA. This is one of the reasons I've begun testing liliana of the veil in place of the 4th hymn. Anyway something came up il finish this thought later..

I've said this before but I never liked hymn in this deck very much. I've been playing thoughtseize to good effect for a long time now. The fact that it costs half as much and hits anything you want I've found to be more important in a deck like this than the card advantage. However I do still like ponder and wouldn't cut them, so I am in the minority on these things I suppose. In response to an earlier post about engineered explosives, I've been playing 1-of in the main for a while and have really liked it. It's a versatile answer to a lot of things but has gotten worse as more midrange decks have started to crop up. Back when people were playing things like stax it was amazing, it's also insane against affinity (but so is deed). However there are decks where it's completely dead so that has made me move away from it.

Hymn just wins games by itself. It also dodges Misstep. Probably most importantly, it can hit lands, which compliments the Wasteland / Stifle strategy very nicely.

I think Thoughtsieze is better in decks that a) have problems with combo (which TA obviously doesn't) and b) in decks which have a specific combo of their own to protect, which TA also doesn't.

I've also been feeling like Ponder is pretty underwhelming. It's at odds with Stifle, and it doesn't really feel like it jives with TA's extraordinarily aggressive game plan. It feels like I pitch it to FoW more often than I actually cast it. I've been running 2 for awhile, but have been tempted to drop them entirely.

Hi guys, I need some help with my SB strategy.

Currently, my meta has a lot of different decks.

Decks that seem to be always there:
- NO RUG/PRO/Bant
- Zoo
- ANT
- Stoneblade / stoneblade merfolk?
- Sneak attack
- Dredge

Also there will be sometimes any of these decks:
- Merfolk
- Reanimator
- Pattern

I was thinking about the following:

2-3 Perish, for zoo/NO decks
3-4 additional 1for1 removal spells, like dismember, edict, GFTT, snuff out etc (run all 4 maindeck, 1 offs.
1 Llawan cephalid empress (is this still relevant with merfolk having dismember?) also prolly good versus Progenitus, Reanimator.
2 Darkblast for random goyf wins, mana dudes etc.
2 Deed, mass removal
1 Grip, just in case
2 Submerge, dunno about this one, maybe better to run M. Pulse?
1 E. explosives

I would bring something like the following:
2 Perish [zoo, bant, RUG]
1 Darkblast [RUG, actually somewhat good vs. dredge]
3 Diabolic Edict [any creature deck, reanimator, sneak attack]
3 Spell Pierce [all the combo decks, can be useful against zoo]
2 Pernicious Deed [creature decks, dredge]
1 Krosan Grip [stoneblade, maybe sneak attack?]
3 flex slots -- maybe graveyard hate, since it seems like you have enough of it in your meta to justify it. Tormod's Crypt is probably the best option. Or you can go with additional removal like some Ghastly demises and maybe the 3rd Deed.