Use it. It's like announcing a Pro Wrestler when he hits the tables.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loxodon Baileyarch
http://www.mentalfloss.com/wp-conten...ael-buffer.jpg
Aaand in the Red Zone, for just a red, green, and a white,..Biiiiiig Country!
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Use it. It's like announcing a Pro Wrestler when he hits the tables.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loxodon Baileyarch
http://www.mentalfloss.com/wp-conten...ael-buffer.jpg
Aaand in the Red Zone, for just a red, green, and a white,..Biiiiiig Country!
You guys should try the green and white "Seals" (Seal of Primordium and Seal of Cleansing) I currently run one Cleansing and one Primordium main but none in SB. It makes a 3/4 Goyf an instant 5/6. Plus, has anyone tried Lox Hierarch? Please tell me the result because I currently want to try the dude and any comments on Magma Jet?
Magma jet is absolute shit in this deck, its been discussed a whole lot, check the previous pages in the thread... and the seals make the 3/4, a 4/5 not a 5/6 (unless you hit an artifact), the seals are much weaker than pridemage, why run them? 4 maindeck answers is plenty, and with a couple grips in the side, thats a whole lotta answers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DCTopTeam
Hello again!
Last weekend I played in a big tournament (89 players) here in Finland and went pathetically 3-0-4 with the following list;
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Kird Ape
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Figure of Destiny
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Lighting Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Chain Lightning
3 Lightning Helix
2 Fireblast
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Krosan Grip
3 Price of Pogress
2 Choke
2 Vexing Shusher
Game 1; Mirror 0-0-1
Not much to say really, he played better. 0-2
Game 2; Affinity 0-0-2
Disaster! I win game 1 in about five minutes and feel very confidant since my MU after sideboarding should be even better. After a good starting hand I draw shit and we raze until he's at 9 life and I'm at 7. I draw Price of Progress with him having 5 artifact lands and I have 3 duals. I think I finally have it and play PoP, he responds with Shrapnel Blast sacking one of his lands... :cry: Game 3 I start of good with Bolt, StoP, Grip and two Tarmo in hand. He plays Path on my Goyfs after which I draw lands. 1-2
Game 3; MBA 1-0-2
He plays some kind of budget version without sinkhole and duress instead of thoughtseize. Not much of a game really 2-0
Game 4; Tempotresh 1-0-3
Game 1 I think he had at least 8 stifle and 23 wasteland in his opening hand after which I have one forest and don't draw any more lands. Game 2 I play like a two-year old, for example; after trying to play Path on his Mongoose turn three and suddenly remembering that it can't be targeted, I find it to be a good play to try to blast the same Mongoose on turn four... 0-2
Game 5; Elves 2-0-3
Game 1 I draw every card I wish for and have no problem getting rid of his lords, Tarmo rules. After siding in two StoP and the second Jitte Game 2 is even easier. 2-0
Game 6; Ichorid 2-0-4
I still don't understand the deck so mainly I sit and listen to him explaining what his doing and on about turn three he hits me with 12 tokens. Game 2, same story. 0-2
Game 7; some kind of UWB milldeck 3-0-4
I've played against him in a smaller tourney with my Enchantress deck which of course is slower so I now what the deck is about. He plays a lot of cheap type 2 cards (Terramorphic Expanse as fetch and so on) and I feel a bit sorry for him. This time my deck is just too fast and he doesn't get to play much. Game 2 I get a choke to stick and after that he doesn't play anything. 2-0
Some thoughts about my deck; For starters I don't get to play that much which means that I tend to loose all even games because my opponent plays better, in this tournament I should of course have won the affinity deck and I could have won against Tempotresh and the other Zoo-deck.
KotR was a disappointment, he never got bigger than 4/4 and most of the time I had better things to do with my mana, I also had to make difficult choices between using Mancer or keeping him big a couple of times.
Figure of Destiny on the other hand was surprisingly good, I was always glad to see him/her (which is it) and he/she was almost always 4/4. Jitte was awesome every time I saw it and won me the second elves game. Library did not work that well and I never felt I could afford to actually draw cards from it. The times I had library in play I didn't have the fetches to filter away bad topdecks. Fireblast was ok but not more and PoP I only got to play the one time I lost against affinity.
In conclusion; Sideboarding against dredge or combo is a waste of time (at least for me). I found myself topdecking a lot and would love to have some kind of cantripcards. Though Knight was good in testing and I love the card, Thoctar is probably better in that spot (for me that is, I don' want to start another 45 pages long debate about this thing). 2x Jitte and 2x Figure MD!!
Now I would like to hear comments about the 4 color version of Zoo, I'd like to play Confidant because as I said, I felt I run out of cards all the time and many games I was just wishing for a good topdeck. Perhaps it's just me being a poor player but after playing mainly Thresh and Enchantress earlier I feel the deck needs drawing. Is the main reason for not playing four colors the more fragile manabase and vulnerability to wasteland and other LD or do you just think that the fourth color isn't necessary?
Here is the build I was thinking of, I would very much appreciate help and comments both on the decklist and four colors general.
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Dark Confidant
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Kird Ape
2 Figure of Destiny
4 Lighting Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Tribal Flames
3 Lightning Helix
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Krosan Grip
2 Price of Pogress
2 Choke
3 Vexing Shusher
Though I'm not that experienced a player and my posts probably don't make any DTB deck better it would still be nice to get some reply to my questions.
Yeah, Seals, along with Magma shit, are weak cards. First off, the Seal of Primordium/Cleansing doesn't beat face. the 2/2 body with Exalted beats face. Oh yeah, and it kills that stupid CounterTop combo dead. I would replace those two cards in your maindeck wtih Pridemages, or a pair of Flameblast.
Edit:
Posted at the time of this report-
You do know that results are posted as Wins-Losses-draws, right? That means you'd go 3-4, not 3-0-4. On the four color Zoo build, this is the RWG zoo thread, and should stay that way. Not being snappy or reprimanding here, just saying that straying from the original beats isn't a good idea. Also, on your list, don't give up on KotR. It is one of those cards you keep in hand for when your goyfs are dead. She's a fat wall, fixes mana, and I run 10-12 fetch lands because of her. In the end a 4/4 for three isn't a bad deal, and one that gets pumped every turn is even better. I'd replace that maindeck Figure with another Jitte. Drawing that card is the answer to so many problems. Figure is just another mana pit. I remember last tournament that KotR was atleast 6/6 when I cast her every time she resolved, winning Goyf stalemates is what she is good at. And how did Leyline work for you? It totally hoses dredge, but it forces you to mulligan in order to get one in an opening hand, so was that worth it for you?
Eh, you draw that game right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Micki
No, I lost 1-2
@jandax; Thank You for correcting me (3-4 not 3-0-4), this shows how much I know. Leyline kills dredge but you need to mulligan a lot so I don't know yet.
I mean: if you are at 7 life, you play PoP and he plays Shrapnel Blast in resp you both die to PoP making the game a draw instead of a loss for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micki
He sacked one of the lands to the Blast, so he'd take 8 damage, which is non-lethal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantis
If he sack one of his lands to shrapnel blast I only do 8 damage to him.
@lordofthepit you were a bit faster:smile:
Oh sure, thanks for clearing it up ;).
@Mikki, I would stay off black, we rock the library to improve consistency and to have some say on our life total, it's an all around better card in this particular deck, also doesn't die to StP, fire//ice, Bolt, et cetera et cetera... your report is a little confusing, not really sure how you did exactly...
As for going 4 colors, it's generally a very very bad idea, you become superlatively vulnerable to stifle/waste, and your consistency goes to hell. If you want more draw, try playing 3 horizon canopy, I find it works very well.
Some Advice:
-Definitely go with more Horizon Canopy.
-I would bring the PoP in your naya build to the Sideboard.
-I would probably cut Helix for a Jitte, Kird Ape, and Fireblast
-You probably just need a little more experience with the deck to improve your win%, there are some tough plays to make sometimes, and more time with the deck will make you a more competent pilot with it... It's not the kinda 'dumb aggro' deck that requires no skill or experience to pilot, its not 'go all-in, do as much damage as fast as possible with no thought or interaction with the opponent, goldfishing'... its not burn or goyf sligh.
-keep the Knight for a while, at least until you do more testing with a tighter build (tighter for you that is, I'm not saying your list is bad). Look at knight as an tool/asset that feeds your lavamancer, its is really nice to be able to always have cards to remove to plow through random chump blockers, that said, sometimes it is the correct choice to play Thoctar, just depends what you expect to see that day, he's more speedy power, where knight is more slow set-up but improves your board position in the long run.
-I really believe that 3 fireblast is the right number, it's a really powerful play most times, and gives Knight +2/+2, running 3 improves the consistency hove having one when you need it.
Conclusion: it's generally a bad idea to go outside the 'naya' manabase, and 4c is usually really bad, worse actually, you do not gain anything that can't be done with RGW.
Knight is a great card don't get me wrong, but with 4 lavamancers you really want Thoctar over the knight. There are other reasons but I'm positive this is correct. Either way you should only be running a max of 2 in the main, as they can get stuck in your hand early/mid game. At the last Vestal tournament I ran 3 library and liked it, but I feel 2 is still the correct number. The card will win the mirror match, as it normally comes down to who can stick a library for longer.
@Gibsonmac Thank You and yes my report is confusing so here is a shorter version;
Game 1; Mirror 0-2
Game 2; Affinity 1-2
Game 3; MBA 2-0
Game 4; Tempotresh 0-2
Game 5; Elves 2-0
Game 6; Ichorid 0-2
Game 7; ? 2-0
So the result was 3-4. Maybe I'll give the Knights another chance and go
-3 Lightning Helix
-1 Figure
+1 Fireblast
+1 Kird Ape
+1 Jitte
+1 Canopy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Gilmore
Could you explain this to me please. I keep reading this over and over and it just doesn't seem obvious to me. (the part about running thoctar over knight because of lavamancer)
yeah, it depends on what you expect to see, but the synergy of knight/lavamancer can be very strong, as the knight feeds lavamancer.
@Gibsonmac What is your manabase if you're able to fit in three Canopys?
21 Land:Quote:
Originally Posted by Micki
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Arid Mesa
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
3 Taiga
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
-9 fetchlands, doesn't matter how you split them, they're all on-color... the canopy's are almost like pseudo fetchlands, but give you card advantage when you need them... so the base stays similar to 12 fetch builds, but with greater utility
-I never have problems with flooding really, I like 21 lands quite a bit, as the canopy's are used more like spells that happen to produce mana, it has worked very well
*EDIT*-if you have trouble finding space, try sticking to 1 jitte in the main for the extra canopy, and add a jitte to the SB instead, unless you already have 2 total, 2 is good