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To fit 4 Mental Missteps, I cut:
1 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
1 Go for the Throat
My removal suite used to be 3 Ghastly Demise and 2 GftT, but MM is a great answer to many threats, so I decided to reduce it to 4 slots, and because I do not want any 1-ofs, I moved 4th Ghastly Demise from SB to MD, and keep additional removal in form of 3 Diabolic Edicts in SB.
It doesnt make any sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shtchepahn
Why did you cut GftF?
I really dislike this Black tempo version. But my point is: If you cut the card (a removal creature) is cause you don't need it!
I'm really thinking about running MM in my Ugr version, but this is nonsense...
and bobs in this deck sux hard!
@ Charlatan: Dark confidant is the best 2 drop in legacy. Deal with it. You can stand beside Ugr can thresh all you want but the fact is there is no source of CA in the red version while the black version has confidant which is why I made the switch to UGb. And guess what? Team america seems to be really popular lately and where has can. thresh been? Canadian thresh hasn't been making waves since 2008 for a reason. Why? Because bolt and fire//ice don't kill tarmogoyf. Or kotr. Or terravore. Or ANYTHING scary for that matter.
Go for the throat <<<<<< smother. Only reason to run GftT is if your meta is infested with tombstalker. Otherwise smother is better because it hits painter's servant, arcbound ravager, all those random artifact creatures...along with the rest of the format. Ghastly demise is good because it's 1 mana if smother were 1 mana it would be instantly replaced with the 1 mana smother but this isn't the case. Ghastly demise is pretty solid though at least in my experiences with the deck.
For MM I'm still debating on what to cut but it will probably be a 4 of in my list post NPH.
@ Dark Ritual: I'm not standing for red or black version. I don't care about any one choice.
If you think that bob's CA is what you need in the deck, so be it.
I won't argue about goyf, kotr, etc... but you are wrong....
My point was, you run black for creatures removal, so if you cut demise, smother or whatever for MM, there is no reason to run Black!
Or the removals are for the 1cc creatures?
He didn't cut his removal entirely, he only went down to four slots maindeck, which is reasonable in my opinion. Now he also has Mental Misstep to counter early stuff like Wild Nacatl, Steppe Lynx or Goblin Lackey. Seems like a good choice since Mental Misstep also helps protecting Dark Confidant. For my UBG-list I really think I want four Mental Misstep in the maindeck. I'm just not sure what to cut for it, since I still want to run 12 creatures and at least four pieces of removal. Cutting Daze doesn't seem like a good move either, I'm winning so many games because of that card. Countering Knight Of The Reliquary is pretty huge. Apart from that, I also want to run 19 lands since basics are awesome. There are way too many Wastelands running around right now. And by the way, has anyone tried running Darkblast in this deck? I'm running it in Team America, where it's pretty much much awesome. Killing that turn one Noble Hierarch is a rather strong play.
Some thoughts:
You should play 4 Mental Missteps, not 3. You always want the card in your openingshand, just to have an unbelievable out against all tier decks. Those are the decks you care about anyway.
Amen to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Ritual
The card was sick before Mental Misstep. The card just got broken thanks to a free Swords to Plowshars counter in certain matchups.
I also saw some guys suggesting cutting 1 Daze or 1 Ponder. To me, this is just bollocks. Daze is vitally important and so is Ponder.
To me, -2 Spell Pierce, -1 Removal and -1 Nimble Mongoose is the correct move.
I have no doubt that UGb Tempo Threshold is superior to the red version. However, the red version isn't dead by all means. I've seen several good results, including one of mine, with the red version.
Didn't Goobafish win a GPT for RI with it, going 9-0 orso?.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenarius
Where is his list?Quote:
Originally Posted by Volrath
few pages back ... it's a version with 3 chain lightningsQuote:
Originally Posted by neckfire
Thanks man!Quote:
Originally Posted by Volrath
I was feeling lazy to argue with this guy...
People only read what they wanna read...
I wouldnt feel safe to run fow and bobs in the same deck or even loose 2 hit points to save my them. If someone kill him, i jus thope to draw one of the another 3 with m bs or ponder...
Since you play ponder and brainstorm the chances of revealling a fow with Bob is slim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlatan
Also, if a Bob stick the CA simply wins you games. Mental misstep helps to asure that.
I think that with the release of NPH, black ***** is the way to go for sure, simply because Bob's power can't be ignored.
You're so right bro. Confidant is just unplayable trash with full 4 cards cmc >2 in the deck. Who the fuck wants extra cards for life? I mean, Necropotence could just easily be unbanned because any deck with it would lose to burn and decks that lose to burn suck. Legacy is all about high life totals and fast direct damage. Just play Lightning Bolt in your sweet thresh deck and you can't lose to anyone without it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlatan
I'm deciding whether I want to convert my Can Thresh (which I do love dearly, for reasons which may include Firespout and Pyroblast in my board) to Team America or to UGB (Now with more Bob!)...
Suggestions?
The link to Gooba's article in the primer is outdated. Can someone link it again ?
The difficulty with fast aggro in general and vial decks in particular have me going back to Red as my splash like it always does. How does Black avoid being downright slaughtered by the likes of Zoo, Gobbos, and fish?
My sideboard in 2010 looked like this:
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Disfigure
2 Mind Harness
1 Submerge
3 Pithing Needle
3 Extirpate
My sideboard in 2011 looks like:
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Disfigure
3 Mind Harness
6 open slots that have yet to be determined. Probably still some graveyard hate, Sylvan Library and maybe 1 or 2 Pithing Needle's.
Phyrexian Dreadnought slaughters Goblins and Merfolk. Disfigures act as more removal, which is pretty good aswell in those matchups.
Mind Harness on Knight of the Reliquary just gives you wins on it's own.
Graveyardhate is needed to cope with dredge/loam/43 land etc.
Sylvan Library for control and mirror.
1/2 Pithing needle's for Vial and random decks.
I used to play 4 Demise and 2 Smother, and with MM I was thinking about cutting the GD and going to 4 Smother. The rationale is that MM should help you to eliminate fast critters, and this was what GD was for, while Smother should deal with bigger creatures. One can always pack more fast removal in the board (e.g. disfigure) if needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shtchepahn
For the rest I think that one should play the full 12 free counters. This allows you to tap out freely on turn one and two, and this was an issue sometimes, especially vs combo, where you want to put out a fast clock and have disruption avalilable at the same time. I will probably keep the spell snares also, since with misstep you can completely cover turn one and turn two (and even if you don't have them, your opponents have to take them into account, like they do for daze).
What I am thinking to do in the end is going from
4 Demise
2 Smother
2 Pierce
to
4 Smother
4 Misstep
and probably pack 2/3x pierce and 2/3x extra removal in the board.
@ Cenarius: how did you find Sylvan Library? The deck already packs Confidant, BS and Ponder, and I usually found the package to be redundant enough. I was thinking more to Vendillion Clique vs control and combo.
I know from my Bant experience (tested it pretty heavily due to Green Sun's Zenith which is still an amazing card tbh) that Sylvan Library is pretty much the nuts, as a two-off.
The card is sick against Control.
The card is sick against the Mirror/Agro-Control matchups in general.
The card is good against Zoo. Sylvan Library on the table wins you the game, in general.
The card is ok against Tribal. The card acts as top, though with a well timed 4 life (drawing Goyf + Removal) is sometimes gamewinning on itself.
The card is too slow against Combo, though 1 activation may already be enough to draw 2 counters instead of a land/creature that is on top.
This deck already has 4 ways of generating Card-advantage, though playing 5 or 6 is, in general, better against certain matchups. I want him in the mainboard, but there's simply no more room left in this deck.
Any deck that doesn't play Dark Confidant, that does play green and is agro-control should play 1 or 2 Sylvan Library's, period.
You seem to be really enthusiastic about the card, I will give it a shot. Thanks for sharing your considerations.