Ehh, I dont much like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocco
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Ehh, I dont much like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
Why not? Given the speed of Affinity in vomitting out a bunch of creatures, ETW seems less than amazing int hat matchup. Having the guaranteed pure math based storm engine of IGG seems good vs a deck that can't really disrupt you going off and could certainly race a small to medium sized ETW.
This is from an outside perspective (I just ordered playsets of LED and Chrome Mox yesterday becuase I missing playing Storm combo and it's pretty bad in Vintage right now), but the choice makes sense to me.
Try to race affinity with goblin tokens. It's a coin flip on whether their draw is fast; I perfectly understand boarding out EtW for IGG in that MU. Affinity can win on turn 3 and that's generally the earliest goblin tokens win as well. Empty the warrens is good against control decks while IGG is amazing against aggro decks for obvious reasons. I'm pretty sure he made the right move boarding EtW out.
Because you can just board out an Infernal Tutor for a similar effect (having Burning Wish lead to a direct kill).
I have beaten Affinity a number of times with Goblin tokens, it just takes some Chants and Duressing a few key cards. But a lot of the time against them, I just got for a big Shattering Spree to take out their board. Then kill them at my leisure while they have to draw cards to do anything.
Boarding out ETW is rarely good, in my limited experience. Swapping IT for Hurkyl's Recall in my meta solves a ton of problems, though. The problem with IGG in deck is holding it, IT, and LED. You have to get to 4 mana more honestly that way. Why put yourself through that?
That's if you draw the one of IGG. Which doesn't happen often because it makes up less than 2% of the deck. And even then, you can have brainstorm put it back on top to go LED + IT + rituals. And sometimes you do have the mana to cast it in hand so it isn't awkward at all if not better because going rit rit LED IGG dumping infernal tutor in the yard costs 2 less mana because you don't have to first tutor for IGG. Then again that affects storm count not going IT -> IGG but the point of IGG is that you're able to go off if you have the right cards to do so/can reach 9 storm before casting tendrils FTW. Without relying on blind flipping with ad nauseam if you're at a low life total like 10 which affinity is quite fast when it comes to dealing damage.
Shattering spree against affinity feels like cheating lol that card wrecks them if you have 2 rite of flames in hand after wishing for spree. Except not since affinity isn't that good.
3 Ad nauseam + Thoughtseize + Tendryls isn't much autodamage??Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
Below is the current incarnation of the EPIC Storm…
III. Decklists
a.)The EPIC Storm
Decklist as of 12/16/10
[cards]
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Scalding Tarn
2 City of Brass
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Orim’s Chant
1 Silence
4 Duress
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 Shattering Spree
1 Thoughtsieze
1 Wipeaway
1 Krosan Grip
2 Echoing Truth
4 Pyroblast
As it stands now I think this is the most optimal list to play. I have however, replaced the Volcanic with another City of Brass as during testing I hardly ever search for it and the additional CoB does come in handy. Perhaps I haven't played enough to realize the importance of Volcanic.
On a random note, the inclusion of R/U fetches are great. So I suppose unless you're trying to make the deck do something else, I suggest sticking to Cook's original list and just play it.
Why not just use 4x Misty Rainforest or any other blue fetch? I'm trying to think of a downside. The minor upside is being able to bluff as a different deck for some games.
I was thinking about that too, I do agree it's somewhat of a bluff as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by sclabman
Since an opponent tried to Pithing Needle my fetchlands I've adopted the one-of path. The only requirement for the fetchlands are that they fetch Blue so I now use single copies of Polluted Delta, Misty Rainforest, Scalding Tarn and Flooded Strand. Better safe than sorry.
I would highly recommend replacing one of those with Bloodstained Mire, they might think you are Goblins. In fact, the most revealing of those fetches is Polluted Delta, as this is the only deck that would play them.Quote:
Originally Posted by tangram
Not that I think it is hugely worth doing so.
Maybe not hugely worth but I don't see any disadvantages. Even if the gain is residual it is better than no gain at all. Of course it doesn't justify buying additional fecthlands if you already have 4 that fetch the deck's 3 dual lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
As a side note I've went down to 3 fetchlands and added another City of Brass.
That additional city is beginning to come in really useful isn't it? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tangram
Yeah I really feel like it's an upgrade. Versus control when sometimes games can drag out I've came across situations were I had all duals in play and fetchland in hand. Other times I really wanted a White mana source and only had fetchlands or duals. In other instances I just wanted added flexibility in my mana, for me the added City brings this.
So I finally got my LED's in the mail yesterday, and when I got home at 11:45pm I sleaved up Bryant's list from the Original Post and as referenced higher on this page. The only difference is that I have only 1 Scalding Tarn and it's in use elsewhere, so I used a different mix of U duals (and will likely go to Bloodstained Mire, Misty Rainforest, Flooded Strand, and Tarn in the near future) and I randomly don;t ahve a 2nd ETW, so Pyroclasm is sitting the board for now as a wipe for hate bears (though in the course of Goldfishing and imagining various scenarios I can see why you want the ETW so I'll be picking one up on my next trip to the shop. That said, it seems like clasm might be a better choice than the 2nd Echoing Truth if your meta is infested with hatebear.dec, especially ince you can wish for it. Thoughts?)
I goldfished about 50 times last night, which is just scrathcing the surface. My background in Storm is mostly from Vintage, where until I recently stopped playing the format I ran TPS (Vintage UB storm with Force of Wills), and a TINY amount of experience with Legacy ANT just prior to the MT banning. A few observations:
* I love this deck. I think I'll be sticking with it for a while. It has pretty high turn 1 kills and I like the multiple lines of play it offers. I also haven't had an excuse to run duress in a long while. Any of the following questions should NOT be taken as a criticism of the deck, and I also get that I'm new to it so I'm still learning. They're just thoughts.
* This deck is HARD. Compared to this ANT was a joke to run and TPS is really quite easy (although I suppose that's due to the relative power of engines like Mind's Desire and Yawgmoth's Bargain and Will, not present in Legacy. for anyone who says Ad Nauseum is just as strong, go give Vintage a try for a bit. Ad Naus is close, but Bargain has it beast by a mile and Will is just. plain. dumb.).
* I hate Ponder. I recognise why it's likely the best choice, but I freaking hate the card. I hate only getting one card off of it. I have that if I don't like what I see, all I get is a completely random shuffle. I hate that if I like 1 and hate the other 2 cards, I'm stuck with an awkward choice. I wish Preordain was Scry 3 then draw because I think it would be a clear winner. Still, has anyone with a ton of experience tested preordain in this spot? I generally like preordain better than Ponder, but I get that Ponder is theoretically better because it can let you see 4 cards if you need to. Anyone have testing to confirm that? Bryant? I still wish I could just run 8 brainstorms lol.
* When goldfishing, I always feel like I want Ad Nauseum. What are some good techniques to force yourself to want other cards that would remotely feel like a real life situation?
* Like I said above, I often found myself imagining I woudl want somethign to get rid of multiple hate bears. I know Pyroclasm has come up a few times in this thread. What I haven't found is why the 2nd Echoing Truth is better?
*IGG feels really awkward out of the board as a wish target. Do you generally find yourself bringing it in game 2 and 3 rather than wishing for it?
*Is Time Reversal (from M11, basically Timetwister that costs and extra 2) really worse than Diminishing Returns? I went for returns 12 or 13 times and more than half the time the 10 exiled cards included at least one thign that made it awkward to win afterwards. I can't recall any time when the extra 1 mana would have mattered except if playing around Daze, but I can't imagine the Daze would come that late in the the Storm count in most games. What about Wheel of Fortune? I often felt like I wanted at least one more engine (but again, I'm used to tPS which typically runs 5 "engine" cards, each one unique).
* What is the correct mana to float when casting Ad Nauseam? I often found myself casting it off LED mana after resolving Ifernal Tutor. I would usually have the option to float 2 mana of any combination of as logn as at least one was black. My instinct was to enable rituals and tutors to find the tendrils and so float RB, , since I typically foudn that I wanted U mana less afterwards, but I'm not 100% certain this is "correct". Assume LED has been used, so no card in hand, what would an experienced pilot recommend floating?
I think Wheel is banned, I too would like to know the correct mana to float..Quote:
Originally Posted by Killane
Duh, of course wheel is banned. Sorry for the brain fart.
Imagine yourself with a low life count.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killane
I love IGG as it is pure math. No variance with flipping cards, just pure math. IGG stays in the board always. I personally play 1x maindeck and 1x sideboard.Quote:
*IGG feels really awkward out of the board as a wish target. Do you generally find yourself bringing it in game 2 and 3 rather than wishing for it?
Already discussed in the thread. The added mana is the key. In real life situation it makes tons of difference.Quote:
*Is Time Reversal (from M11, basically Timetwister that costs and extra 2) really worse than Diminishing Returns? I went for returns 12 or 13 times and more than half the time the 10 exiled cards included at least one thign that made it awkward to win afterwards. I can't recall any time when the extra 1 mana would have mattered except if playing around Daze, but I can't imagine the Daze would come that late in the the Storm count in most games. What about Wheel of Fortune? I often felt like I wanted at least one more engine (but again, I'm used to tPS which typically runs 5 "engine" cards, each one unique).
If I were to choose which 2 mana combination I'd prefer I'd go for UB. U gives cantrips to continue digging and B allows for DR, IT, Duress and IGG. But typically mana combination isn't a issue with AdN, the issue is getting enough mana sources from card flipping.Quote:
* What is the correct mana to float when casting Ad Nauseam? I often found myself casting it off LED mana after resolving Ifernal Tutor. I would usually have the option to float 2 mana of any combination of as logn as at least one was black. My instinct was to enable rituals and tutors to find the tendrils and so float RB, , since I typically foudn that I wanted U mana less afterwards, but I'm not 100% certain this is "correct". Assume LED has been used, so no card in hand, what would an experienced pilot recommend floating?
Also don't always go for AdN, sometimes wishing for IGG or IT chaining is enough to generate 9 storm.
Play against a "Burn" goldfish. Every turn, you lose three life for each mountain they've (three on the first turn, six after their second turn, nine after their third turn). This STRONGLY encourages IGG/D. Returns playing, or goldfishing off as quickly as possible, as you get to a very small life total pretty quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killane