...and shuts down your own draw engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood
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...and shuts down your own draw engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood
Yeah, you're right. What was I thinking? I suppose trading four of your creatures for up to sixteen of theirs isn't a fair deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximumC
That's your draw engine right there - it's called virtual card advantage. Dark Confidant is only in the deck to supplement an already overwhelming threat density, not to mention Liliana cleaning up the rest of the mess.
ORRRRQuote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood
side out 4 dark confidants and side in 4 EP. Then you won't kill your 4 creatures.
That's fine too. Or you could keep them in and board out the Macabre, which is what I would do because I wouldn't run four Plague to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
There's no need to be snippy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood
It isn't like one deck to beat is running Delver of Secrets, Noble Hierarch, Mother of Runes, Thalia, and Grim Lavamancer, all in the same deck. Blue aggro and tempo decks might pack Delver as the lone human. (Snappy hardly counts because he can still do his thing even if he dies right away). Ditto lavamancer in a sligh or burn type deck. If you're giving up Bob (arguably your best creature) just to stop 4 to 6 cards in the enemy's deck, that seems like a bad trade. Especially when some of your creatures just outclass them.
The one deck that does get hit fairly hard by Plague on humans is Maverick. There, yes, you kill Hierarch, Mother, Thalia, and weaken KotR. This is not bad at all, maybe worth not having Bob online. At a minimum, it keeps alot of really problematic creatures off the board. It doesn't stop a flying green 1/1 equipped with SoLS, which I always found to be one of Maverick's best plays against us. I would almost rather be packing 4x Deathmark for this matchup. If you're already doing that, and given how big a chunk of the metagame it is, Plague might make some sense.
Could you please give me some advice on what to cut for the 3rd Faerie? My first thought was Jitte, but I do not think I'd end up drawing it regularly when there are only 2 in the Deck...
You could drop one of your Percy's into the sideboard or a Therapy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Standard
I can't see not running 4 faeries, honestly, since it is so critical against graveyard-based decks. I usually side out Hymn to Torach in favor of faeries against them, since you really don't want to be giving them a free discard outlet anyway. Note that you want to keep in your targeted discard, because hitting the reanimator spells is very important.Quote:
Originally Posted by lyracian
I took the remark that was made at me as kind of snide too, so I apologize if that came off that way but it wasn't meant to sound that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximumC
The creatures might outclass them, but your draws won't. You're dependent more so on the top of your deck than any Tempo variant running Ponders and Brainstorms, which is why I was advocating using Top so that in the event you need to stick a Plague and Bob's are useless, you still have Top with fetches to manipulate your draws.Quote:
It isn't like one deck to beat is running Delver of Secrets, Noble Hierarch, Mother of Runes, Thalia, and Grim Lavamancer, all in the same deck. Blue aggro and tempo decks might pack Delver as the lone human. (Snappy hardly counts because he can still do his thing even if he dies right away). Ditto lavamancer in a sligh or burn type deck. If you're giving up Bob (arguably your best creature) just to stop 4 to 6 cards in the enemy's deck, that seems like a bad trade. Especially when some of your creatures just outclass them.
Dark Confidant is good enough to run even in the event you decide to run E. Plague because of how important it can be in netting you some cards. Engineered Plague's application also gives you card advantage by pinning their threats down and keeping them off the board. If you have one or the other sticking on the table, then you're going to be just fine.
Deathmark is always a solid choice. However, it becomes rather weak when Mother of Runes sticks. This is why running Plague is better, because it minimizes their board presence and allows you to open the door to removing their individual threats like Knight rather easily.Quote:
The one deck that does get hit fairly hard by Plague on humans is Maverick. There, yes, you kill Hierarch, Mother, Thalia, and weaken KotR. This is not bad at all, maybe worth not having Bob online. At a minimum, it keeps alot of really problematic creatures off the board. It doesn't stop a flying green 1/1 equipped with SoLS, which I always found to be one of Maverick's best plays against us. I would almost rather be packing 4x Deathmark for this matchup. If you're already doing that, and given how big a chunk of the metagame it is, Plague might make some sense.
Thank you guys for the Answers. I actually run 2 Faeries MD and 2 SB. But I want to place a 3rd one MD to get 2 more Slots in the SB. I just cannot decide what to cut for it. Cutting the third Percy seems like randomizing drawing him too much, and cutting out the 3rd Therapy... well, it basically means -1 Sac Outlet for Percy AND -1 Discard which I am not sure about.
My thoughts were basically Gatekeeper or Jitte, but I'm also not sure about that. It's just a hard choice. I do really like having Faeries MD, but 2 seems a bit random to me.
Oh, and could someone please state an opinion about Tragic Slip which I mentioned before?
Would this new Demonlord of Ashmouth be better than persecutor now?
same mana cost, but no trample ability. Not that trample is that useful since persy has evasion.
nah, i don't think so when there is a chance to not be able to play this guy at all, and when undying,if a cool ability , still doesn't trump swords to plowshares. I'll keep my persecutors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
so if anyone was watching scglive yesterday. that was totally me that lost under the camera yesterday. misplay my life away :cool:
i'll post a report later when i get off work
Awesome to see The Gate represented. Your opponent was also playing just as sloppy ;) Hilarious to hear the commentators struggle to figure out what you were up to. "Black agro.. one sec while I google this".Quote:
Originally Posted by xdavisx
http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/314341339
Skip to 5h:30m in.
Looking forward to the report!
Quote:
Originally Posted by xdavisx
Well, I don't think game one was so bad (maybe in the end, I guess, attack with both nighthawks to gain life keep the persecutor back? then again, i'm saying that after the game has been played, so that opinion isn't worth much lol) , it's only the game 2, so don't be so hard on yourself, you did well. Still, I am very interested in the tournament report!!
With the occasional BoP or flashing Sylvan Ranger I quite like the Trample for getting damage through. Also I think it is better to have the problem of killing your own dude rather than not having the sacrificial offering so you can not play your big guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
Well you took the deck to a big event and hopefully had some fun. Well done on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by xdavisx
To start things, I've always been a fan of this deck and have lurked this thread many, many times. Even though I have many other deck options, I've always had a soft spot for The Gate. This was my first real "buy in" deck for legacy. (i.e. dark confidant, wasteland, jitte, thoughtsieze). I chose the deck this week for its obvious reasons of simply manhandling other creature based decks and still have some game against the unfair decks. PLUS I do love casting me some fatty flyers.
After this past Sunday, I have a new found respect for getting a full nights rest before grinding away an 8+ round tourney.
I got off work on Saturday night around 1130 PM and saw that I had Sunday off. So I said, "Fuck it", I'll make the 4 hour drive the next morning so I can cast some nighthawks and make people wonder what the hell I was doing. I went home, got my shit together and finally laid down for a sweet 3ish hour nap. I got up around 5am and after some durdling I finally hit the road to Des Moines. Illinois and Iowa are not fun states to drive through for those that haven't made the drive before. The only highlight being The World's Largest Truck Stop of I80 about 80miles in. I get to the venue around 9am and after managing to get lost from the parking garage to the convention room, this is what I register.
4 Innocent Blood
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtsieze
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Bitterblossom
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Umezawa's jitte
3 Faerie Macabre
4 Dark Confidant
1 Massacre
4 Wasteland
17 Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
sideboard
3 Massacre
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Graf Digger's Cage
1 Darkblast
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Perish
1 Duress
1 Hymn to Tourach
Running on little sleep and food i start trudging along the rounds. Bear with me now, I'll do my best to try remember each round.
round 1Esper Blade/Spirits
Game 1-Not a whole lot here he managers to drop a batterskull and later equips it with a jitte and does me in.
Game 2- I rip his had apart, I kill his dudes and get there with abyssal persecutor and night hawk.
Game 3-It was a grindy, swingy match. near the end of the game he taps to disenchant a revoker naming jace, then he taps his remaining mana slams, a stone forge and immediately searches. midsearch I notice he didn't have a 2nd white source. Judge was called, a warning was issued to him. i resolve a nighthawk and equip and start going to town. Time is called and the game is drawn with him at 2 life. No concession :(
0-0-1
round 2 elf combo
Game 1- He mulls to 4 and kill him pretty easily with a Bob and jitte.
Game 2 - I rip his hand apart and kill his early dudes then soon we're both in top deck mode. I draw dead he draws little 1/1's and beats me to death with them.
Game 3- I cast inquisition seeing wire wood symbiote x2, glimpse of nature x2, nettle sential, forrest, 1 arch druid. I choose nettle sential. He cast wirewood and passes, I cast innocent blood, and cast cabal therapy naming glimpse. he cast his 2nd wirewood and plays a land back to me. I cast inquisition taking his archdruid and cast another innocent blood. he draws dead i drop a jitte and it's game over.
1-0-1
round 3 u/w stone blade
Game 1- I think I nuked his land with wasteland He doesn't do anything turn two but play a land and I cast hymn getting both his lands. He draws his lands too late, and by then nighthawk and persecutor get it done.
game-2- Standard u/w match he resolves a jace and i lose sometime after. He brought in all the removal, path to exiles and wrath of gods.
game 3- Swingy match, I manage to get Liana to like 7 or 8 counters. I have a persecutor that has him dead. He's at negative whatever life. But he has 2 mishra's factories and a stoneforge equipped with a sword of feast and famine and gets lilana down to 3 counters. I edict myself the next turn and win.
2-0-1
round 4 maverick (feature match) see the link infectious posted (thanks dude!)
game 1- Just to explain the attack near the end of the game. he had lethal on board and i had to attack with the nighthawks to be able to stay alive the next turn, plus he had an active mom on boat messing up the blocks. i played bob so he could chump block the thalia if need be. he got in there with knight and I die to a bob flip.
game 2- OH boy, here we go. yea I knew I shoulda flashbacked cabal sacking my nighthawk to get his elspeth. For some reason my dehydrated, tired self thought I could just aggro out the elspeth. it was going ok until he dropped maze of ith. and later I forgot I had dark blast in the yard. oops.
I brought in graf diggers cage here, just to try it out against green sun zenith.
2-1-1
round 5 maverick
game 1- He leads with wasteland, I lead with my wasteland nuking his. He drops karakas and I nuke that the following turn. He misses a land drop I make mine. he eventually drops a land and cast a noble heirarch. I cast a gatekeeper and waste his land, he scoops.
game 2- I rip apart his hand and and kill his early stuff. He cast a knight, and drops a 2nd one via green sun zenith. I rip a perish off the top like a boss, and he scoops it up with no cards in hand.
3-1-1
round 6 esper blade/spirits
game 1- Not much of match, he counters my stuff and he cast some lingering souls and a vendillion clique gets there with a sword of fire and ice.
game 2- this is where some drama happens. We trade spells for awhile and later I cast a cabal therapy seeing his hand jace, force of will. He doesn't have a 2nd blue source and top decks a brainstorm. He plays it like a ponder, buts three back and begins to shuffles his deck. "Woah woah woah dude, you don't shuffle with brainstorm". Judge was called they ruled it a warning since he didn't draw an extra card yet. so pretty much he got a free shuffle and top decked his blue source and resolves a jace. game over.
3-2-1
round 7 esper blade/spirits
game 1- We both mull to 6 and I'm on the play. I keep 4 lands, thought seize and gatekeeper. I cast thought seize netting his stoneforge and the rest were lands. He top decks his own thought seize and gets my gatekeeper. No joke, we play off the top for at least 5 or 6 turns and we both were ripping lands. i eventually won off the back of a persecutor.
game 2- Just take all the other esper games I played and mash them all together and thats what this game was. except he was at -20something life. I eventually draw a sac outlet for the persecutor .
4-2-1
round 8 need to win to top 32. tezz affinity
game 1- He poops his hand out and gets a turn 3 tezz and ultimates it and I die the following turn.
game 2- I tears his hand apart apart and and get there with bob wielding jitte and revoker naming tezz.
game 3- I mull to 6 on the play. I cast inquisition seeing double mox opal, lands, thought cast other stuff and tezz. yep, turn 3 or 4 ultimate tezz kills me.
4-3-1
Faerie macabre and bojuka bog were all stars all day, and those were just against the stoneblade decks.
All in all I had a fun time and was happy with the deck. Like all players my play coulda been tighter. I easily could have won some more games with tighter play. It was hard to say how good massacre is against esper because I never drew it. I found the u/x blade decks a little difficult, it might have been me drawing bad, misplaying but it seems if those decks can land an equipment The Gate has some trouble dealing with it. I know splashing a color isn't really in The Gate's style but krosan grip seems pretty good against a lot of problematic artifacts. Thoughts?
I know now to appreciate being hydrated, well rested and having some granola bars handy.
bonus story.
I played The Gate last fall in Nashville to a better standing. Around round 5 I played Alex Bertoncini piloting reanimator.
game 1- Turn 1 he leads with polluted delta. I cast inquisition he responds with cracking his fetch and casting entomb ditching iona into his yard and dazing me. He replays his land and passes. I cast another inquisition seeing double reanimate or exhume (can't recall) and a ponder and lands. He was like "good luck, I can't lose with this hand" I pick the ponder, then follow it up with cabal therapy naming exhume. He goes on life tilt. he draws dead, I drop a liliana and spin her up ditching persecutor. He cast exhume we both get our dudes back and I just edict him and win soon after.
game 2- leyline of the void does him in.
Thanks for reading
Nice work.
Glad to see folks still piloting this deck, and even nicer to see some coverage.
Bonus story is classic.
Xdavisx, aside from ruining the Stoneblade player when you caught his lands, how did Hymn to Tourach perform on the day? Would more 1cc removal have been better?
Color splashing would open you up to Wasteland and Stifle, so you just have to weigh the chances of that. Seems bad in a meta full of RUG Delver, but if the room is a bunch of UWx equipment decks, then you might gain a lot from splashing.
Like always, Hymn was sweet when it was dropped early and terrible late game but themz the breaks, it was pretty house against the elves and maverick matches. By 1cc removal do you mean targeted discard or creature removal? I think 3 Thoughtsieze and 1 Inquisition of Kozilek would be good. Everytime I casted inquisition I just wanted it to be a thoughtsieze.Quote:
Originally Posted by ESG