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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acclimation
Richard Cheese and I tested Burnt Offering in some of the original iterations of the deck - it was ALMOST good enough, but as you mentioned, only good post combo phase. Similar but less pronounced with Cabal Ritual. We need cards that are good before and after - that's why LDV works so well. I didn't like either of them for those reasons, at any rate.
Not sure if this has been already discussed in the thread, but I made a dark depths transformational sideboard for this deck. It's probably not good, but it's fun to troll people on cockatrice with.
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Expedition Map
Well, trolling people is basically what this deck is about. Also I love janky transformational sideboards. How has it worked out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wombo Combo
Also, what the hell just happened in here?
It was hard to tell with so many people rage quitting on me. It seems pretty consistent at finding the combo. Usually it's easy to bait out a wasteland on your dual land when they don't expect it. I didn't really bring in the sideboard until game 3 a lot of the time because I wanted to see how much hate they were bringing against me. I think if you know they have two types of hate post board (pretty much any deck in DTB section), then it should be brought in game two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
Hi, Everyone,
I'm back on Tin Fins after a break on the other side of the meta (where people die and pay taxes :)
Addiction to T1 kills returned fast ;)
In fact I tried to move a little bit out of plain vanilla Tin Fins.
Someone pointed out earlier the good result of this Next Level Reanimator build
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=6655&d=238254&f=LE
which I saw also doing well in some other trials here in Paris (along with standard Reanimator which keep on winning here and there)
I simply hybridized it with Tin Fins ... pretty easy in fact since they added dark rituals in the equation compared to the first NLR lists.
After a few tuning the result is this list
//Main 61 cards
//Kills
4 Griselbrand
1 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Tendrils of Agony
//Graveyard stuff
4 Entomb
4 Careful Study
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Reanimate
//Cantrip
4 Brainstorm
2 Gitaxian Probe
//Protection
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Daze
3 Force of Will
//IMS, 3 moxen to be 99,9999% fizzle proof :)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
//13 Lands, I go down to 12 post-side if no wasteland or such...
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Island
1 Swamp
//Sideboard 15 cards
//Trying this against chalice and counterbalance ...
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Tropical Island
//
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Pithing Needle
2 Massacre
1 Serenity
1 Duress
1 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
// Find any of the above :)
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
As you can see it's nothing super new and spectacular, but it turned out to work well in situations I was in pain with the regular build.
(I've been playing the regular one quite extensively until the end of last year, including big events like last BoM, that said I can't account for any spectacular results :)
After playing it on Cockatrice + a 40 men monthly Legacy here in Paris here are the first impressions (there is probably more tuning to be done though)
+Having 8 ways to put Gris in the yard is the main difference, you care a lot less having your entomb discarded or countered, it feels a lot less fragile overall
+Although it's always the same question of taste, counters feel a lot better to me, in my experience that one mana to clear the way by discard/silence often delayed the combo turn out of the short "win window" we have against tough matchups. + protection when on the draw is definitely priceless.
-Card disadvantage (Fow, Careful ...) ... lots of card disadvantage .... many times if you go off and kill it doesn't really matter, but some times it does and overall it makes the build feel "heavier"
-4 Griselbrand = potential dead draws (although I noticed there is a high amount of Hymn to Tourach played these days :)
I'm wondering if I should get LDV back in the main (and how ...) as it was my beloved card in the standard build (I was running 3 main :)
It's a lot less mandatory with 8 "put in the grave" effects but at the same time it works well with Careful Study, and is the best "recycle on Chrome Mox" thing we have...
I'll add the report for the monthly Legacy I just mentioned where I finished at a decent 8th position (3-1-1).
Lots of BUGs and Death and Taxes around, I managed to dodge Miracles which are popular these days.
Round 1 against BUG delver 1-2
- Game 1 : I keep a no land hand with Entomb, Shallow, Goryo, Dark Rit, Grisel, Fow, Careful .. and is as one can expect punished by not drawing any land in 5 turns. I managed to keep my Gris in the yard, but 5 turns is way too long when discard, CA and counters run on the other side.
- Game 2 : No protection but double entomb, Goryo+Shallow, and dark rit, so Go off, he let the dark ritual go and countered entomb, so I re-entombed, next turn was it :)
- Game 3 : 5 lands and no business spell, then the same at 6 card, then the same at 5 ... 4 ... 3 was BS and reanimation ... although I did win some games after mulliganning to 3, BUG is definitely not the good candidate for it :)
SB was +1 CoV+1 Echoing+1 Needle+LDV -2 Probe-1 Cabal-1 Grisel
Round 2 against Belcher 2-0
- Game 1 I have a T2 kill so I land he starts and spits 20 Goblins or so, then it's T2 so ... :)
- Game 2 He starts with 18 Goblins this time, I have a T2 kill again so I take a 18 hit, and go off the turn after, mox and petals are in the 7 I draw, as well as another entomb and a reanimate, so go for Children, the 7 next contains Shallow, mox diamond and dark ritual, so the engine is on until Tendrill .. that was close :)
SB was +1 Echoing+1 Needle+1 Flusterstorm -2 Cabal-1 Probe
Round 3 against a Standstill BUG control thing 1-1
- Game 1 I go for a T1 kill with Fow protection ... but not against double FoW :) ... talking about card disadvantage I'm hellbent after this ! then came 2 DRS which slowly killed me.
- Game 2 took ages ... He countered every single card I played : I hit 2 flusterstorm, 2 Fow and a spell snare !! but the counterpart is that he had nothing dangerous to play, the Creeping Tar pit he landed remained still for a while as he didn't want to tap out. When I hit a third Fow (!!) I'm pretty out of gas with only Griselbrand and a land in hand but LDV came the turn after and the next five included Careful Study Dark ritual and reanimation ... I went off but needed to go the Draw my deck-Tendrill way and it ended up to be the exact bottom of my deck :)
- Game 3 was another locked game without enough time to finish, my last move was a hardcast Griselbrand which was of course countered :)
SB was +1 Needle+1 Cov+1 Duress+1 LDV -1 Grisel-not sure what else i sided out here probably some counters
Round 4 against Esper Stoneblade 2-0
- Game 1 I start, keep a good hand with only one land but a probe, which I play he knows me so guesses what I'm playing and says "you can kill me for free go on" as there are no counters in his hand. But all i can do is entomb and end up mana screwed again ... He was beating me with a Nemesis and I was at 5 when a Careful Study finally gave me 2 petals and I goryo for Gris, he Pierce, I Fow, He Daze to get my second petal away, I attack draw 7, another mox and a land, entomb and a bunch of reanimation spells, I flashback Cabal for Griselbrand and pass ... then looking back at my hand I see Entomb and ... Reanimate ... but anyway another Nemesis hit after I Goryo again, and he concedes.
- Game 2 I go off T2 Daze protected
SB was +1 Cov+1 Echoing+2 LDV -1 Grisel-1 reanimate-2 probe
Round 5 against Eva Green (poor notes here...) 2-1
- Game 1 I probe sees no counter, and go off freely a few turns later, Tendrill way as he Diabolic Edicted me
- Game 2 I mulligan down to 5 with an acceptable hand but only a USea ... he prevented me to go off with discard and wasteland got me mana screwed. I don't remember how things exactly went, only that he revealed 5 lands in a row with Bob, that the first land I draw after being wastelanded to death was a basic Island, and that he managed to dodge Griselbrand with an Hymnn to tourach while I had only 3 cards in hand ... and looking at my life total sheet, it looks like I've been killed by Bob alone, maybe joined by a Tarmo for the lethal hit :)
- Game 3 is a T3-4 kill I only remember protecting my combo pieces from discard with a BS.
I've been trying Noxious Revival as a cheaper alternative to Snapcaster without the Shallow Grave interaction problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
The starting point for me was: ok I lost too many games by being discarded entomb T1 and even if i usually managed to find another one thanks to cantrips and LDV it was often too late.
So having a way to get it back for free sounded good ... but I never really found the correct way to incorporate it (main ? sideboard ? and what is worth to remove for it ?)
Have you tried running 4 Careful Study and 4 Griselbrand without the FoW and Daze?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachikoma
8 reanimate spells (3 goryo, 1 reanimate, 4 shallow)
9-10 ways to bin from hand (4 cabal therapy, 1-2 thoughtseize, 4 careful study)
5 reanimate targets + 4 entomb tutors = 9
This seems like it would be a lot more consistent. Perhaps a few more fetches to make up for lost Ponder shuffling?
It seems to me that you haven't read this entire thread. If you had, you would realize that yes, this has been tested, no, it isn't good enough for the majority of the people who play the list, ponder is to good to completely axe, and your list is closer to next-level reanimator than tin fins.
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Has anyone had time to test the 15x Shadowborn Apostle sideboard?
lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
Sounds bad, Richard.
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We keep talking about the merits of a man-plan anyway, this is totally the best of both worlds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
It sacrifices all other matchups. I'd rather have my good, tested sideboard than 15 1/1 retards that when you draw ungodly amounts of them gets you a griz. Try it out and tell me your results, but my hypothesis is that it will blow.
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You're probably right. I'm thinking 14 of the Apostles and one Demon of Death's Gate is probably the way to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
"Hello, I'd like one ticket to Value Town please."
"Oh, I'm sorry sir, but the gentleman across from you just bought the last one."
You guys aren't playing the 15 Craw Wurm sideboard?
No wonder y'all got no results.
Slightly more serious on topic, I'm loathe to add creatures that aren't Griselbrand, Emrakul, or Children. We have no room and no need. The cuter we get, the worse we do.
Keep it simple, keep it lean, get dem fast kills.
Bonus points if you do dog barks while swinging in for lethal. Intimidate them, and blast 2 Chainz when you leave the table.
Cant tell if trolling or not, but I really hope not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
I'll probably do it one weekend just for shits and giggles, just need to find the 15 pimpest Apostles possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Edit: Aaaaaaaaand 15 Korean Apostles are on their way. Gotta love/hate that Internet.
Bonus points if you draw in sunglasses on all of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
Has anyone else have some fun stories about the deck from recent events?
Been itching to play, but haven't been able to recently.
I'm moving to Colorado ( :D @ .dk and Richard Cheese) and the lgs there puts on the occasional legacy win-a-box tourney. I will be winning most of these events. Probably with tin fins.
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