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I might try it with Elf anyway. I play a couple Mirri's Guile/Sylvan Library so that should help with Elfness. My Jund list is already odd since I don't have groves and I sold my goyfs for a car bill :rolleyes: . Might as well keep experimentingQuote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
I think the argument for BBE over Rabblemaster is that the elf can do much more unfair things, and dig you out of holes.
I was playing vs Jund last night with Shardless.
My board: Goyf, Jitte, Jace on 2 and Lili on 2.
Him: Empty board and hand. BBE -> Decay for the goyf, kill jace. I'm forced to sac the lili to kill the elf as I draw a land for the turn. That's a mighty big hole to dig out of!
I have a 4 colour cascade deck that plays kinda like Jund/Shardless but with both BBE and SA. Everyone once in awhile you live the dream of BBE->Shardless->Goyf/Decay/etc. Feels great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissection
BBE was one of the biggest factors that attracted me to Jund in the first place.
That and the fact that it looked a lot like a Big Zoo deck that stood more than a ghost of a chance against combo.
I will say that rabble is great at closing games out quickly, but the anti synergy with g charm and needing to cut BBE makes me shy away from him.
Sent from my KFARWI using Forum Fiend v1.2.14.
In my Meta Jace The Wallet Sculptor is still a thing. So BBE puts that guy in check. If I had SB slots I'd switch out BBE for Rabblemaster in matchups were speed is key. But without BBE I can't call the deck Jund anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
No doubt BBE is good, that's why jund played him in the first place. I switched to rabble for a few reasons 1) he ends games quicker on empty boards (which as you know playing jund, it's not too difficult to keep a board clear) 2) he's easier to cast. I believe the biggest incentive to playing BBE is CA. He provides an extra card on being cast, sometimes it blows a game open, sometimes it does nothing. But looking at the deck as a whole, jund is filled with CA engines, lili, bob, pfire, hymn, library, etc. From my experience, rabble's easier casting cost and faster closing speed has been more valuable than BBE's CA. This has been my observation and so far rabble has been pretty excellent. Now I'm not saying he's better than BBE but I feel within a jund shell he so far has been more valuable, to me at least, b/c BBE's CA isn't as powerful when the rest of the shell has already put you up on cards.
Rabblemaster was weak for me when U/R Delver was around due to the prevalence of sweepers. It'll be worth looking at again due to TC's banning and U/R going back to the fringe. Though the thought of dealing with burn again is not a pleasant thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleman3955
I've been toying with 2x Blightning again, for BBE's old cascade friend. I think they could be worth playing right now
I really like marsh casualties out of Jim Davis's BUG deck last weekend:
Punishing Jund
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sylvan Library
2 Bayou
3 Badlands
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:
2 Marsh Casualties
1 Engineered Plague
2 Pyroblast
1 Choke
2 Duress
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
This is what I will be testing until the SCG 5k in LA
Both Courser and Tasigur looks really solid choices for jund instead of Bloodbraid atm. Both cards can give a solid card advantech and survive Lightning Bolt.
I agree, I am just trying to figure out if I want to keep playing punishing fire which is a nonbo with delve or switch to bolts like the original jund lists. I am still leaning towards p fire though.
There is enough stuff that going into the graveyard. Punishing Fire has advantech it can be returned from the GY before activations of Taisgur.
Played in a staples tournament yesterday at Knightware LA, 42 ish players.
I run a very stock list with 23 lands (3 wastes), 3 BBE, 3 hymn, 4 fires, 4 decays, 2 library and 1 bolt.
R1; vs a Junk list (Robert). I haven't played many tournaments in LA but I always seem to play Rob either in the first or second round every time. The matchup is pretty good with the only issue being Souls or as usual an SFM that's not killed on sight. Game 2 on the draw I keep a hand of DRS x2 and thought seize and he seizes my thought seize. I play out 2 DRS over the next turns and draw land and BBE. He IOK's me to see land and BBE and he has no pressure. BBE gets a goyf and that's enough pressure over a few turns to win it. 2-0 (1-0)
R2; vs UWR miracles (Danny). He mulls game one and keeps a non basic heavy hand with cantrips. I draw 2 wastes and the tempo is enough to keep him on the back foot. Don't remember much of the second game apart from he cast 6 mana Elspeth but I had deed to kill the tokens and attack Elspeth with goyf. 2-0 (2-0) After the game we enter into an animated discussion about Vintage, Danny being the animated one. A very nice guy.
R3; vs Esper Stoneblade (Randy a good friend of mine). We both know what we are on as he showed me his list before the tournament and he knows I'm always playing Jund. G1 he has 2 SFMs which I kill but I don't have much pressure and my Bobs are plowed and my library countered. Lingering souls and pressure from a clique wins him the game. G2 I mull to 5 and keep an ok hand but I'm not feeling confidant. He keeps a cantrip heavy hand which allows me time to draw out of the mull and put on some pressure. He keeps cantripping and shuffling but doesn't find answers (he later told me he kept draw his one off sideboard disenchant of every brainstorm). In game 3 I have the fire lock but make a grave mistake of fetching on my end step to thin which lets him clique away my fire. We run out of time regardless and its a draw 1-1 (2-0-1)
R4; vs mono red sneak attack. I am assuming this is the sneak attack version of the deck even though I didn't't see any sneak attacks, it may just be a variant. G1 on the play I keep a hand of goyf, 2 Hymns, fire and 3 lands (inc grove). He mulls to 6. I play a fetch and he plays chalice of a ancient tomb. I hymn away another tomb and trinishpere. He has no turn 2 play and I hymn away a chrome mox and something else. Goyf gets him very low on life and he eventually plays a skull but takes 4 damage of tombs. I decay the token and win. G2 he mulls to 6 again and plays mountain. I thoughtseize seeing inferno titan, batterskull, seething song and mountains. I take the song and play a goyf. I have no other pressure and he chalices for one next turn. He eventually gets to 5 mana of COT and plays skull, I decay the token and waste the COT. I keep him off 5 mana of wastes but he tormods crypts me to make goyf small, I also add BBE which finds a bob. I decay the chalice to try and get some damage in but he chaos warps the chalice and gets a koth of the top. The koth lets him cast titan next turn killing most of my board, I suicide to kill the koth and deed away the titan. From there he is stuck on 3 mana and I win. 2-0 (3-0-1)
R5; vs miracles. Don't recall much about this game but Lili wins me game 1, entreat wins game 2 after pressure from a clique and deed wins me game 3 by killings 3 angels and lili takes care of the rest. This was the ponder version with lots of snaps.
R6; ID with infect. Finish second on the standings.
Top 8; vs miracles. My hymn gets pierced and so does my lili, but I have a second one waiting. It gets to work while I have grove and fire to discard each turn. He scoops with Lili about to ulti. G2 I thoughtseize him on the draw and see a hand with 2 SFM, SOFaF, Jace, DTT and something else not castable. I take an SFM as he is a long way from casting anything else. He finds land for SFM which I kill with decay then finds top and counterbalance. I decay the balance and land a library and liliana. I don't find threats for a while and he develops his mana with top. I eventually have goyf and DRS but he lands a RIP. I keep attacking with my squire elf and tick up lili. He councils judgements it but I was floating one on top with library. That lands but I still am not killing him fast enough. I find a needle and he activates top but I still name it even though he has jace in hand. He discards top to Lili but still doesn't cast jace. I thoughtseize next turn to see jace, TNN and skull and take jace. I see BBE and lili with library after a shuffle and decide to ulti my lili on board. He scoops to the BBE and lili revealed.
We split the top 4 and I get a tundra. It was good playing legacy after a while, haven't played much since GPNJ.
I mean, Inquisition of Kozilek is basically Thoughtseize. Right, guys?Quote:
Originally Posted by jraniga
Seriously, though, nice showing.
I've used blightning a bit before (mostly when I was toying with YP and wanted more sorceries) and it's pretty sweet when the opponent drops lily (or another walker) and you get a 3-for-1.Quote:
Originally Posted by hovercraft
If going that route you need a lot of pressure though IMO, as normally you're just bolting them and going for hellbent. This means it's worse in the long game (discard) and is good in the short game (burn.) I'd consider going Goyf + 2 Tasigur (or rabblemaster) if experimenting with Blightning; probably dropping Lily for straight aggro rather than controlling. This would logically move Pfires to something too I guess.
I'm intrigued by Blightning to the point where I might throw a list together later for shits and see how it rolls, but I definitely agree with this line of text. If you went with Blightning, you'd have to dedicate to the Blightning plan. It's just too much of an all-in card not to. No Punishing Fires. No or less Lilianas. I'd even go so far as to say that Thoughtseize would have to try to be something else. Otherwise you'd be flip-flopping between winning the game and stalling with every draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
I think that tasigur sounds interesting for our deck - I will borrow one and test him tonight.
I do think that he will require us to run more green (basically more bayous than 2) to use his ability consistently. This also helps casting Courser if one is using that guy too.
Could grim lavamancer and tasigur play along? Removing the stuff with GL you dont want to retrive with Tas?
I dont know about blightning. I get how powerful it can become, but removing p.fire reduces our efficiency against creature based decks such BUG, maverick and esper. On the other hand not running p.fires makes basic mountain and taiga a reality (stabilising manabase).
Yeah I am actually using it with YP as well. Trying out Cabal Therapy too, since it synergizes with YP (I sold my goyfs for a car bill.....)Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
Meh, I threw together a Blightning list last night for kicks. The results are totally inconclusive of course (a few randoms on The Cock.de doesn't mean dick), but at the very least I can say that it holds its own, loses to combo, and its straight gameplan makes the deck more consistent. Basically "kill everything until you stick a creature and roll". Three Eidolon definitely would be safer, but thankfully I didn't run into a problem last night. I forget whether it was three or four Blightnings. The sideboard was more or less your standard Jund jumble plus a few Thoughtseizes. I miss Liliana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neffy
24*Land
1*Forest
2*Swamp
4*Badlands
4*Bayou
4*Polluted Delta
4*Verdant Catacombs
4*Wasteland
1*Wooded Foothills
19*Creatures
4*Dark Confidant
1*Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4*Eidolon of the Great Revel
2*Tarmogoyf
4*Bloodbraid Elf
4*Deathrite Shaman
17*Other Spells
1*Geth's Verdict
1*Liliana of the Veil
4*Lightning Bolt
1*Searing Blood
1*Sylvan Library
3*Abrupt Decay
3-4*Blightning
1*Golgari Charm
1*Maelstrom Pulse
0-1*???
We all have very fond memories of Jund when shards was around, however I think the punishing fire engine is still strictly better.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamajellydonut