I think we knew what you meant. Didn't see a need to call it out. ;) Vortex isn't a problem when running Rec Sage maindeck, so this makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by barcode
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I think we knew what you meant. Didn't see a need to call it out. ;) Vortex isn't a problem when running Rec Sage maindeck, so this makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by barcode
Thanks for giving the deck a go, .dk. I'm glad I can reciprocate after you showed me the ropes of TinFins.
The Scavenging Ooze is definitely what you want against burn. I assume you are playing that matchup correctly-assault their creatures and their hand.
It's always close. Thalia usually helps a lot vs. them, and each point counts, I usually end up winning with my life at <5. It may seem strange, but I usually keep
Thoughtseize in against Burn because almost every card they have hits for 2 or more, and stripping an Eidolon is well worth the 2 life up front. Remember
to take advantage of their Goblin Guide by Bstorming to lands on top of deck. Because burn usually needs lands early, don't use a Veteran unless you have to flashback
a therapy (to strip an Eidolon) or you are going to play Aluren and win. Giving Burn two free mountains is too nice to them.
Storm is pretty tough, but luckily Burn and Storm both have similar sideboard cards. You have to be really good with that Therapy...
Indeed - the Legacy community is grand, no? :) The deck is a blast (and actually reignited my interest in Legacy), and much better positioned than Storm or Tin Fins right now, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by TTX
You think Scavenging Ooze is better than some other more dedicated hoser? It's certainly more flexible, as it comes in vs. dredge and reanimator as well. I wasn't sure how powerful it was vs Burn though, and didn't really see a great card to cut for it. I was considering something like Auriok Champion as it is also unreal against Grixis (not that we really need much help there). Maybe that just goes to far.
My side boarding strategy vs. burn was:
-1 Thoughtseize, -1 Sylvan Library, -2 Shardless Agent
+1 Decay, +2 Thalia, +1 Bone Shredder
So, to your post above (and assuming no additional thought seize in the board), leave the Thoughtseize in, maybe bring in Ooze instead of Bone Shredder, and board out a Veteran Explorer? Or maybe bring Bone Shredder in and take out 2 Veteran Explorers. Although, that seems like it may give you too many mana problems vs. their insta-kill of your Deathrites. I was being conservative with my Explorers though - at least a couple games ended with them in my hand. So maybe 2 is right. Will have to test that matchup a bit and see how it goes. We've got a few burn players at my LGS, so it will definitely come up...
Some other things I noted - never drew Volrath's Stronghold all day. That could easily be the second white source, I think. The Tundra I was playing as the 61st card was pretty amazing, allowing me to not have to fetch the single white source into wasteland a couple of times, as well as giving me more flexibility with Brainstorm and Recruiter in hand. If I did end up running a WW casting cost hoser in the board, was considering still running 61 with 3 white sources: Savannah, Scrubland, Tundra, and 0 Volrath's Stronghold.
Aside from that - absolutely loved the deck. Veteran Explorer was gas just about all day - I don't think I'll go back to playing a version without him soon. Didn't get to live the T2 dream with Phyrexian Tower though. :(
Ya, Burn is rough. Bone Shredder ain't great against Burn, if you have access to Scooze out the board that's probably better.
I'm fine with a Burn player hitting my DRS, that's less burn for my face.
I like the Explorers as a 3-of against them, since it accelerates your our game plan.
All I'm saying about that is be careful of Fireblast and Exquisite Firecraft.
I have found Volrath's Stronghold to be amazing at getting through grinding games and board stalls. The obvious
interaction of Baleful Strix and Stronghold, especially with Aluren already in play is a nightmare for almost every deck.
I still have had no issue with a white source, as I usually keep it in the deck unless I absolutely need it.
Me and a friend split the BUG version of this deck on MTGO. We admit to blatantly copying Cartesian's decklist and sideboard without having a clue what to do with it. Played three rounds together and went 3-0, then tonight I finished the last two rounds to 5-0 our first league with the deck. Really impressed by how subtly powerful these Alara commons are. By the way, I vote for re-naming this Primer "A Guide to Giving Your Opponent the Bird."
R1: Infect 2-0
R2: Abzan Stoneblade 2-1
G3 our opponent did very little, only tried to stop our combo with a flashed-in Ethersworn Canonist but we comboed on top of it due to our second Cavern Harpy.
R3: Stoneforge+Mentor Miracles 2-0
R4: Predict Miracles 2-1
R5: Grixis Delver 2-1
Notes: Opponent misclicked in G2 and killed his own Gurmag Angler instead of our Baleful Strix with his Dismember. We probably would have lost the game if it was played correctly, and with it the match. However, we still had live draws and weren't completely. G3 I resolved some cantrips and baited out two Dazes, then landed Carpet of Flowers -> Baleful Strix. Carpet did work on fixing our mana alongside our basic lands and we out-valued enough that he conceded.
Overall, the deck feels very powerful and the idiots are surprisingly effective. We may have gotten a large advantage from our opponent Forcing our Cavern Harpy / Parasitic Strix because they thought they were the only copy in our deck. I have no idea how to sideboard and, looking on the thread, I don't see much discussion on the sideboard. So, here are my thoughts:
2x Blue Elemental Blast: seems good for fighting Burn...but that's about it. Maybe against 4 Red blast decks?
2x Echoing Truth: good for tokens, which are the only things that trade favorably with our freaks. Also bounces annoying hatecards.
1x Glissa, the Traitor: This card is a meme for this deck. I'm guessing it gets around something I'm not thinking of. We just boarded it in where we wanted a first strike creature...
2x Cabal Therapy: for combo, didn't play against it
2x Carpet of Flowers: for Delver? Could also be used against Miracles or Shardless BUG or something I guess?
4th Decay: Feels like it could be maindeck, but I didn't play against combo so...
2x Tormod's Crypt: Might not be anti-unfair enough, feels like it could be Surgical Extraction to hit Show and Tell decks potentially...
1x Dread of Night: for Death and Taxes. We brought it in against Miracles to hit Mentor.
1x Jitte: We brought it in for all creature matchups as a random good 2 drop to Transmute for. Powerful.
1x Zuran Orb: Burn and Delver...?
Decklist: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/480328#online
Well, I'll try scooze over bone shredder next time. Need to find one more card to board out though if I'm leaving thoughtseize in though.Quote:
Originally Posted by TTX
I guess I haven't run into a super grindy game like you describe yet - admittedly I haven't played this deck much in general. 22 matches total...
You're learning .dk. Veteran Explorer is love, Veteran Explorer is life.
See you at Eternal Weekend now huh?
lol indeed. Not the first time I've played them - but it's been a while. Last time was back in an old deck called ZeRO when I was playing around with the manadorks. I forgot how amazeballs the card can be. That said... seems WAY better in this deck anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyT
And no, unfortunately. :( New job and moving are getting in the way.
In Seattle, Aluren has won the past 3 1ks, with a mirror in the finals in the last, and two in top 8 in the penultimate. All have been playing the red version with Dreamstalker. I'm not convinced that the sideboard options are a noticeable improvement. It also opens you up to Dread of Night and Massacre. Is the real reason budget?
But on the white version, I really don't get Arctic Merfolk over Quickling. Dreamstalker bounces when it comes into play, so it's not like that should disqualify Quickling. Protecting your creature from removal, blocking Delver, and beating in the air are all extremely relevant. What's the thought there?
I saw earlier that someone claimed Veteran Explorer made the deck "more resilient". That doesn't make much sense - most of your creatures produce value and are good sacrifice fodder. Is adding a creature that gives you lands actually helping more than another discard spell or maindecking a utility creature, or just playing Ponder?
With regards to Merfolk vs. Quickling, I don't really have an opinion. It's nice that they can't respond to the bounce - but I have no idea if that is better than flash and flying.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmutant
But as far as explorer goes - it does help in a few ways. It's great acceleration, and is a great blocker. He also makes it a lot easier to cast Aluren through Daze and Pierce after you've stripped Force of Will. And of course there is the god draw of a T2 kill with Tower, but that's not a real reason.
I ran the white version strictly to acces Orzhov Pontiff, Thalia, and containment priest as I have both sets of recruiters. Particularly Thalia and priest though, usually lots of ANT, reanimator, and some elves in the Denver area, and less tarmogoyfs lately which is where Dream Stalker would really shine. Seemed like a better choice to me, really.
As far as dread of night goes - you can always rec sage or decay it. Doesn't seem that backbreaking to me.
Quickling has several problems. If you Shardless into it with an empty board it sacrifices itself. Arctic Merfolk would at least give you a 1/1.
Also if you use Quickling for value to bounce a Shardless or Strix and it's the only thing on your board, your opponent could use removal on your creature, again making the Quickling sac itself. Arctic Merfolk gives them no opportunity to do the same, but of course it can't be flashed in without Aluren the way Quickling can.
Dreamstalker is by far the better card, but I think the sideboard options that white gives are pretty huge.
I took TTX's exact 75 to GP London and played a side event with the deck. I'm new to Legacy and have only played about 20 games of red Aluren on MTGO, so this was my first time playing paper Legacy.
In the first match I got turn 1-ed by Tin Fins, then turn 2-ed in the second game. I kept Brainstorm and DRS in my opening hand, but didn't play the DRS turn 1 out of fear of getting turn 1-ed again. Played the DRS turn 2 but the Brainstorm didn't find a force. Probably should have mulled/played the DRS turn 1.
Match 2 was against what felt like an inexperienced burn player. I've found burn quite easy on mtgo and much the same here, winning 2-0. Cabal Therapy got some decent cards and DRS kept my life up. There was a time where I had a Veteran Explorer in my hand but I didn't want to play it as I had a strix down to block and didn't want to give him mountains for Fireblast.
The third match was against a Storm player. I definitely got lucky as he chain bricked both games. In game 1 he died to DRS after a failed Ad Naus and then died to combo in game 2. I definitely named some pretty bad cards with Cabal Ritual, (naming Dark Ritual instead of LED in g1, and 2 x Cabal Ritual instead of Ponder g2, when I knew full contents of hand) but it worked out. I didn't see any sideboard cards, which is a shame, as this is a match-up surely hugely improved by the white splash.
In the last match I played against Eldrazi. He thought I was on Nic Fit at first after seeing the Veteran Explorer. Cabal Therapy followed and hit his TKS. Got the combo fairly quickly thanks to the lands from the Vet. Game 2 started off fine, taking him down to few cards in hand, but a couple of top decked Reality Smashers finished me off. Game 3 was more grindy, with Volrath's Stronghold and 2 x Veteran Explorers being amazing. Opponent had a quick start with a TKS taking an Aluren and had to fight through Pithing Needle naming Cavern Harpy, but just Recruiter'd for Rec. Sage. A Toxic Deluge hit 3 of my opponent creatures. Ended up with so much mana that I could use Recruiter to find a Bone Shredder, cast it then return whatever I needed with Volrath's Stronghold. Hit double Dismembers with a flashed back Cabal Therapy, which could have stopped the combo. And then shortly after drew into Aluren.
So went 3-1 and liked the deck a lot. I do feel a bit uneasy with the 3 Forces being in the sideboard and there probably not being enough blue sources for them in general. Cartesian's recruiter-less version on mtgo looks interesting for metas where you really need Force main deck.
So I finally decided to chime in despite lacking a bit on the experience playing Aluren. I have been playing the deck for the last few weeks and unlike what seems to be the (vocal) majority here I don't like Explorer and have opted for Noble Hierarch instead.
Last night I managed to get in some games against Omni Sneak (the new hybrid thingy), Storm, Elves and Jund and I was generally pleased with the performance of the deck. For reference this is the list I played yesterday:
Creature (26)
2x Arctic Merfolk
4x Baleful Strix
1x Cavern Harpy
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Eternal Witness
3x Noble Hierarch
1x Parasitic Strix
4x Recruiter of the Guard
4x Shardless Agent
Sorcery (4)
4x Cabal Therapy
Land (19)
2x Bayou
1x Forest
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Polluted Delta
1x Savannah
1x Swamp
2x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Volrath's Stronghold
Instant (7)
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
2x Lim-Dûl's Vault
Enchantment (4)
4x Aluren
Sideboard (15)
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Carpet of Flowers
1x Children of Korlis
1x Containment Priest
2x Flusterstorm
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Meddling Mage
1x Orzhov Pontiff
1x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Toxic Deluge
Prior to yesterday I made the following changes:
+2 Lim-Dûl's Vault
-1 Reclamation Sage (Moved to SB instead of Bone Shredder)
-1 Academy Rector
As mentioned above, I was quite happy with how the deck performed. However, I did miss Rector some times, yet I am still not convinced it is good enough. I am considering trying out an 'Rector Optimized' list including 1 Deed and 1 Library as additional targets for Rector.
I REALLY like Noble in the Explorer Spot as they help our scrawny creatures battle as well as being good without Therapy. Further, the addition of LDV was great. I actually got the idea from the Recruiter-less lists popping up. Cascading into one with Agent just feels great and even just EoT LDV setting up for the win the following turn several times.
However, I am not completely sold on Volrath's Stronghold yet, especially after Shardless BUG begun to up their Wastelands count and more often than not the colorless mana hurts or make for awkward openers.
Well, that was my 2 cent - now tell me how wrong I am...
Hello I'm coming from Nic Fit and saw that you guys sometimes play Vet Exs. Can you guys point me to a list? I have most of the BUG cards and wanted to try something new.
[Deck] Aluren
Here's my list and an updated sideboard guide for those that are interested.
Storm, Lands, Elves, and Reanimator are the toughest match-ups. Overall the deck was amazing at Indy. I top 8d again with this list today at NerdRage. Still very pleased with the deck.
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Veteran Explorer
4 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Cavern Harpy
1 Eternal Witness
2 Arctic Merfolk
3 Shardless Agent
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Parasitic Strix
4 Baleful Strix
4 Aluren
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
1 Thoughtseize
1 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Polluted Delta
1 Phyrexian Tower
SB: 2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 1 Orzhov Pontiff
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Bone Shredder
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 3 Force of Will
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
Miracles +2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, +1 Phyrexian Revoker, +2 Carpet of Flowers, +1 Abrupt Decay
-3 Veteran Explorer, -1 Thoughtseize, -1 Baleful Strix
Grixis Delver +2 Carpet of Flowers, +1 Abrupt Decay
-1 Reclamation Sage, -1 Thoughtseize, -1 Sylvan Library
BUG/RUG Delvers and Shardless Decks +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Bone Shredder, +2 Carpet of Flowers, +1 Abrupt Decay
-1 Reclamation Sage, -1 Thoughtseize, -2 Shardless Agent, -1 Sylvan Library
Storm +3 Force of Will, +1 Phyrexian Revoker, +2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, +1 Thoughtseize
-1 Sylvan Library, -3 Abrupt Decay, -1 Reclamation Sage, -2 Veteran Explorer
UB Reanimator +3 Force of Will, +2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, +1 Bone Shredder, +1 Phyrexian Revoker
-3 Abrupt Decay, -2 Shardless Agent, -1 Sylvan Library, -1 Veteran Explorer
Elves +1 Containment Priest, +1 Bone Shredder, +2 Toxic Deluge, +1 Orzhov Pontiff, +1 Abrupt Decay
-1 Reclamation Sage, -1 Sylvan Library, -2 Shardless Agent, -1 Arctic Merfolk, -1 Thoughtseize
D&T +1 Orzhov Pontiff, +1 Abrupt Decay, +1 Bone Shredder, +1 Phyrexian Revoker, +2 Toxic Deluge
-1 Thoughtseize, -1 Cabal Therapy, -1 Shardless Agent, -1 Eternal Witness, -1 Veteran Explorer, -1 Deathrite Shaman
Lands +1 Abrupt Decay, +2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 Shardless Agent, -1 Thoughtseize
Eldrazi +1 Abrupt Decay, +1 Bone Shredder, +2 Toxic Deluge
-1 Eternal Witness, -1 Shardless Agent, -1 Sylvan Library, -1 Thoughtseize
Infect +1 Bone Shredder, +2 Toxic Deluge, +1 Orzhov Pontiff, +1 Abrupt Decay
-1 Reclamation Sage, -1 Thoughtseize, -2 Shardless Agent, -1 Sylvan Library
Nic Fit +1 Containment Priest, +1 Bone Shredder, +1 Toxic Deluge
-3 Veteran Explorer
Burn +1 Abrupt Decay, +2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, +1 Bone Shredder
-1 Thoughtseize, -1 Sylvan Library, -2 Shardless Agent
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In addition to Dread of Night and Massacre, Sulfur Elemental and Blood Moon are also compelling reasons to play red over white, although there are certainly reasons to play white instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmutant
During my brief stint dicking around with the deck (white in paper, red online), I am starting to see the merits of Arctic Merfolk over Quickling. Opponents will often board in Pyroblast effects or Spell Snare against Aluren, and the difference between Merfolk and Quickling means sticking two extra 2/2 bodies and an extra value creature in these situations. Granted, Quickling and Dream Stalker have different upsides, and I'm not convinced yet whether one is clearly superior. I will say that in a weird meta where you might expect to see a lot of mirrors, Quickling becomes more attractive.
Not to nitpick, but this is different than what we were talking about above. I realize you don't have Scooze in that list, but you mentioned leaving your Thoughtsieze in. Might that merit actually bringing in the other thoughtseize in your list?Quote:
Originally Posted by TTX
Sorry about the inconsistency. You are correct. Yesterday I actually had a key Thoughtseize (snagging a Sulfuric Vortex) that I was not likely to name with Cabal Therapy. Because burn is so fast, and you don't need to guarantee a Veteran dying (they'll gladly attack into a Veteran) perhaps the best course of action is toQuote:
Originally Posted by .dk
+1 Thoughtseize, +2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, +1 Bone Shredder, +1 Abrupt Decay
-1 Sylvan Library, -2 Shardless Agent, -2 Cabal Therapy.
I lost to Thalia/Eldrazi Stompy in the quarterfinals 1-2 yesterday.
Here's the vid https://www.twitch.tv/nerdragegaminglive/v/95404261 begins in minute 50.
Interesting - I see merit in leaving all discard in for the matchup. However, I wouldn't know what else to cut. Is Bone Shredder better than Therapy? Think I might prefer Therapy in that case. I could see something like...Quote:
Originally Posted by TTX
+1 Thoughtseize +2 Thalia +1 Decay
-1 Sylvan Library -2 Shardless Agent -1 Volrath's Stronghold (grinding them out with Stronghold will never come up in this matchup)
Or possibly -1 Veteran Explorer instead of Stronghold.
Regardless, your Veteran Explorer's are always dying in this match, making mana less of a problem.
Just a thought, anyway.
@lordofthepit - I'm not sure you're that worried about Blood Moon if you're running Veteran Explorer. You also have Deathrite as well - seems like between the basics with Explorer and Deathrite, you should be ok regardless. Sulfur Elemental and Dread of Night are indeed problems though. I mean, you can deal with them, but you just don't have that exposure when playing red. I suppose the same is true about Blood Moon, but I don't think that card even hurts us that much to begin with.
Is there an updated primer on how to play this deck? I've been trying it and have been scratching my head. I get the drain with strix kill but so many lines escapes me :(
Hi guys. Longtime lurker here and avid fan of Aluren. I have access to both red and white recruiters and was wondering what is the main reason for the White build? Am willing to give it a try as I am also a fan of Nic Fit. Could it be possible to have a transformational board into full Nic Fit to dodge hate?
Currently in the Imperial build of Martin Goldman-kirst by the way. Trying to figure a sideboard guide as well for an open field. Would you guys recommend the White one or the Red one?
Edit.
I will try to sleeve up TTX's list to get s feel of the White version too